When they made Freminet, they may as well have said "We don't really care about this one. Let the writers have him."
(I mention the writers cause while Freminet's mental illness themed event story wasn't my favourite in terms of story flow or gameplay, but I enjoyed and appreciated the thoughtful representation of mental illness.)
Meanwhile Noelle gets a positive out of almost everything. Itto? She gets Redhorn and Gorou. Furina? Noelle is like the single best character for getting the most out of Furina's kit. Xilonen? She's also one of Noelle's best team members. Hexerei? That's an Albedo buff, and he's another of Noelle's popular team members. Durin himself also, is a good support for Noelle teams while enabling Hexerei for Albedo. Lunar Crystallize? Noelle is going to make great use of that too. Hoping Varka will bring a knights of favonius buff that affects her too.
She wasn't built up to be a deity who's the focus of a nation's main story, neuvilette had more build up to take over, all of nod krai is columbina story.
Moons affect the tides of a planet, and as Columbina isn't the moon itself (would be a girlfriend shill otherwise :3) but is instead affected by the frost moon, it makes sense that she's hydro in turn.
I don't think a moon can suddenly just inherit a new job, plus, someone correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think the tides went haywire or anything when the eternal moon got destroyed.
I find that surprising. You didn't even hear about The Song of Welkin Moon web event? It was the biggest thing when it first came out, especially all the hype for Nod-Krai.
No I didn't, I don't really go into subs to often, in my 3 or so years of genshin I've maybe gone onto the actual sub 4 times, and any Genshin videos I watch are just challenges or account fixes, like Mistahfeet–The Michael Jordan of GI–and VaskeVoid for the account fixes.
The only lore I really know are the main quests, assuming I interpret the non-obvious stuff right, story quests, and the summer event quests.
I do get the logic and it's creative, but it's still a little personal pet peeve of mine ':D
Another reason why I think Eternal Moon would've sounded better imo. No issue with that being hydro.
Guess Eternalmoon Scions doesn't sound as good lol (Scions of the Eternal Moon tho? Hmm)
Well, the details are in the next patch, so who knows how that happens. I kinda expect she'll "create" a new Moon inside the borders of which she becomes the goddess of or something.
She's still the reincarnation or has SOME closer connection to the Frost Moon, hence why she couldn't hold the other Marrows and the Frost Marrow doesn't exist (cause it's the one not broken.)
Correct me if I'm wrong or missed something tho. I'm forgetful ':)
Hasn't it already been said that Nod Krai was the fourth moon that couldn't form and shattered into Teyvat, which is the current Nod Krai? And it was speculated that the fourth moon is the Welkin Moon.
Theory/Fanfic tangent:
Maybe she never was the Frost Moon and if there was a Marrow from it, they would quickly realize that she can't hold that either.
If that was the case, I wonder if getting her to the Moon beyond the sky actually would've helped her, or she would've just gotten stranded and continued dying, because it wasn't the correct Moon.
That would also explain why she was "born" in Nod-Krai. Currently the only explanation we got is the characters theorizing that it's because of a lingering connection between Teyvat and the Moon. Which is.. a pretty vague and speculative explanation.
Anyhow, soon we'll know what the actual story Hoyo wrote is. But I think they'll go with a dual Goddess path, where she becomes a god of both. By the rule of cool.
I suggest you watch the theory/analysis videos by either Catwithbluehat or Minsleif. They both explain everything happening in the Archon quests really well while including lore from books.
Will do, thanks!
I do admit, Genshin lore from before the Archons isn't my favorite in general, so I haven't been looking to collect all the facts by myself or go out of my way to know everything. That's why I like to clarify that I can miss details easily in related arguments.
It'll be nice to watch someone else's comprehensive video tho, so I'll do that when I have the time :)
No, he's creating a fake moon, which is the "4th" moon, but technically it's not the fourth moon itself because that's the Welkin Moon, which is not known by a lot of Teyvatians. That's why they're calling it the 4th moon.
Yeah, the gravity thing is fun, but that's why they should've switched the names of the Frost and Eternal moon in my opinion. Also, another person (u/Thin_Total5243) here mentioned that the Eternal Moon is the one credited for the tides in Teyvat anyways.
And fair, but now we got 3 hydro """""Archons""""", so at this point...
I really like the idea! They have to include the Welkin somehow. Was that always her secret true role or is it something new made to justify her staying in Teyvat?
I replied to u/Ria-sama already with a quick ramble how it could make sense in the story. Of course, it's just a little brainstorm. I do wonder how Hoyo will handle this in the next AQ.
That would also explain why she was "born" in Nod-Krai. Currently the only explanation we got is the characters theorizing that it's because of a lingering connection between Teyvat and the Moon. Which is.. a pretty vague and speculative explanation.
Well, Kuuvahki has been compared to the primordial sea since its first mention. So the moons, who are the source of all kuuvahki, must have a similar elemental nature to the primordial sea, which is the purest hydro element.
Otherwise, it'd be kinda weird. Having frost=cryo and iridescent=pyro would leave the question of what the fuck is "eternal". It's far easier to chalk them up as just names, not the nature of the moon.
wouldn't it have made more sense if the Eternal Moon was the one perpetuating its existence with reincarnation?
Could still be, we don't know how the Welkin Moon will be formed, but it'll probably be the Eternal Moon's remains, then it'll be a Moon reincarnating.
Yeah, I get why Hydro makes sense, just the naming is a little irritating for me. It's certainly not something I would bring up while complaining about the story tho. It's not nearly as important, just found this the perfect post to mention this detail.
And what you said is just another reason why I feel it would've been better if we switched the Frost and Eternal Moon completely (only in name). Hydro there would make total sense and we don't actually have to know the elements of other Moons, unless we get characters of them, so I wouldn't mind the Frostmoon just existing.
As for the reincarnation, that sounds like it would be interesting. But I don't write the story, so we'll just have to see.
Where was kuuvahki got compared to primordial sea? From what I remember it got compared to phlogiston as an primodial energy source predating elemental energy.
Nod Krai act 1. When Kuuvahki is mentioned, we ask Ineffa if it'sike phlogiston, she answer that according to her databases, another comparison is the primordial sea.
Point she tried to make is kuuvahki, phlogiston and primordial sea are primordial sources of energy predating elemental energy. They are similar because they are all pure and ancient, not that they have any direct relation. Like kuuvahki is not directly related to hydro just because primordial sea is.
The catch is the "Hydro Archon" itself is dead. Like, nobody will ever be able to be the Hydro Archon. Meanwhile the Geo throne is still (presumably) untouched
Is it just me who doesnt like bina being put to archon level? Like I think it undermines who she is because in the lore shes above archons! (idk about strength tho) Our moon godess deserves her own role
I also don't like it, not cause she is ranking above the archons, but because all game we've been told there are 7 archons for each main region. And as far as I'm aware, Columbina isn't treated like an archon by Hoyo, she's treated as a moon goddess.
Cause she's the main god character of the story and she's a moon goddess. As well as Nod Krai is part of the main quests, but it still isn't an archon quest.
Unlike the others, Nod-Krai isn't a chapter in the Archon Quests, it's called "Song of the Welkin moon." If Nod Krai really was considered an actual archon quest about an archon and their region, it would be called a Chapter and Act, not the current title.
It's for that reasoning I don't consider Columbina an Archon, the main quests have always been called Archon quests, just putting Nod Krai in there when Columbina isn't even the official god of all of Nod Krai doesn't make her an Archon.
She's as much an archon as Nod Krai is a nation. That is to say, she's not an archon, just like Nod Krai is not a nation. But we all know Nod Krai is basically its own nation even though technically it's not. So by that logic, I'd say Columbina is basically the Lunar archon even though she's technically not. She occupies a comparable authority over a power (Kuuvahki) that the archons do over their elements.
Afaik, Nod Krai isn't considered an official nation by the rest of Teyvat, or else they'd talk about the 8 nations not the 7 nations.
Not to mention, Columbina is the goddess of the Frostmoon Scions. To even be considered an actual Archon she'd need to he recognized as the god of all of Nod-Krai, but she isn't.
Plus, Kuuvahki isn't an element, it's just pure energy linked to the moon, same goes for Nightsoul and Pneuma/Ouisa. It's part of the region, but it isn't what makes an Archon an Archon. Columbina is Hydro, but we already have Fontaine, the actual region of Hydro. There can't a Lunar Archon either, cause that's an elemental reaction, Venti is the Anemo Archon, not the Swirl Archon, and Raiden is the Electro Archon, not the Overload Archon, that just doesn't make sense.
This is all semantics and technicalities. She feels like the central figure that represents the region. Only other characters that feel that way are the archons. She is NOT an archon, but there's also a LOT of overlap.
Yea I dont like it either. I really dont like her being on the archon art either. The archon art is for the 7 and nobody else in my eyes. Bina needs her own place for her.
Unless she receives a powerup like Neuvillette geting back the hydro authority, she isn't above nor at same level than any archon. Arlecchino gave her moon thing to Columbina and said she was now back to "3rd harbinger level strenght" so its above base Dottore and Capitano. Even then, she gets weaker every day
Yes because her power is weak, It's been told in the story shes getting weaker everyday. + I said the moon godness in lore are above archons in storywise.
Also we been known top 3 harbingers are as strong if not more than the gods
She will be stronger than shades after 6.3 🤭, if not equivalent at least.Or it could be the case of growing over time. Because she is the new moon maybe it will take time to gain full strength.
Also some proof of her having shade authority is already there, like in her character idle animations, she slows down time when she play around with her dove and she has revive passive too.
The current shade powers originally belong to the three moon sisters.
Before the last act of the AQ, sure, she's constantly refered to as the hydro archon. She was released at the same time as the final part of the AQ but the trailer just treated her as a celebrity. Though her official release information does not list her as having a gnosis (it just says Element: Hydro), unlike other archons
I really do wonder if this was the plan all along, because specifically making it canonically certain that we would never have a "true" Hydro Archon in game was always such a strange move to me (beautiful storytelling as it was). Especially in a game so obsessed with keeping up its patterns for both game and marketing reasons.
But when Columbina was revealed to be the Archon-equivalent of a nation who was also Hydro, it seemed to click for me.
It's not about divinity, it's about the elemental throne which she never possessed. Hence why she is not one. The game itself tells you that she is not one.
But people and characters still consider her an archon with what she endured and went through.
Plenty of beings have endured far for their nations more than furina, that doesn't make them the archon.
People still call Zhongli an archon, but he isnt anymore. He faked his death and gave up his title.
He is an archon because he still possesses the elemental throne.
She still present in annual archon photos, in every promotional material she still treated as such. She used to be the Archon. It requires the Hydro Archon to be weeping on her throne, If she wasnt considered as one, the plan wouldnt worked
She's by all intents and purpose is the representative of Hydro. And what is better representative than archon tittle
Zhongli, Paimon, Neuvillette, and Focalors’ divinity herself all state that Furina is Focalors in the game itself.
Zhongli’s voice line about Furina:
“She made a contract with her own self to save the nation, strictly adhered to it for over five centuries without once wavering, and even fooled the Heavenly Principles in the end... I have great respect for approaches to justice that place exacting demands not only on others, but also on the self. Though her divinity has vanished and the throne of the Archon is no more, Furina will go down in Fontaine's history as a God of Justice worthy of recognition.”
Neuvillette and Focalors’ divinity during the Fontaine Archon Quest:
Neuvillette: So even Furina doesn’t know the truth? You’ve never once let her in on the full plan?”
Focalors: Yes. It had to be done. To deceive the Heavenly Principles, you must first deceive yourself.
Neuvillette and Paimon at the end of the Archon Quest:
Neuvillette: “Yes. All of Focalors’ efforts were for this moment as well.”
Paimon: “But… She sacrificed herself in the end as a god, and she suffered through all those years as a human… Was that really what she wanted?”
Neuvillette: “…I suppose that would be the mystery of a god’s will.”
Neuvillette’s Character Story 4:
Focalors – or Furina, he should say – had given up her seat in the audience, come onstage alone, and become the heroine of the drama.
How about you address the actual quotes I provided from the game? The game itself tells you that they are the same. If Focalors was the Hydro Archon, then so was Furina.
They are not the same. Focalors was the divinity and memories, while furina the body. Furina is more of the other half of focalors. The quotes you quoted literally says the exact same thing.
That being said, it was the divinity that held the elemental throne, hence held the title of archon. It was her death using oratrice that destroyed the throne.
Furina, who is alive has never held the elemental throne is not an archon and has never been an archon.
You can cope however you want, but all the archons possess the elemental throne. If you want to prove furina was ever the archon, you have to prove she held elemental throne.
Okay, let’s entertain your argument. So Furina, who you do acknowledge is Focalors’ body, somehow didn’t possess the Hydro Authority at any time despite being Focalors before the split?
Focalors: After becoming a god, I separated my divinity from my body and spirit, leaving behind only a self that was as naive and bewildered as my past self on her first day as a human being.”
This states that Focalors became a god, then separated herself. So even if we do consider them separate after the split, the body should have also held the divinity and the Authority at the time before the split.
The body had gained divinity, therefore the body had predated the divinity’s existence. The only way your theory makes sense is if the divinity only obtained the Hydro Authority after splitting herself from her body. We know this isn’t the case, as the complete Focalors had already become a god and the Archon before she split herself.
I will admit that there is no “hard proof” that Furina held the Throne after the split, but that also applies to most of the other Archons. The Thrones are not exactly tangible nor is there any sort of divine requirement to hold them. We basically have to assume they hold them because they are Archons.
Logically, Furina being Focalors’ body means she would have also held possession of the Hydro Throne, but she may not have been able to use it, much like when Mavuika got entirely depowered in the Natlan Archon Quest for a while. Did Mavuika stop being the Pyro Archon during that time?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but we have not been given a method to actually tell whether a character holds a Throne or not, especially now that we know that having a Gnosis and having divinity are not requirements to be an Archon. We can only assume it is the case due to their Archon or Sovereign status except in Neuvillette’s case, since he was able to perform a feat that required the full Hydro Authority.
Furina as we know her was born after the split. So what happened before doesn't matter. After the split they are two different entities. Previously being the body of an archon doesn't matter. Shogun puppet was built using Ei's original body as material, yet she is not the archon. Ei is, even without a body, she holds the electro throne hence she is the archon. The same thing applies to focalors.
Furina was not “born” through the split, it’s more like she got amnesia. The Shogun is a completely different case as she was actually created rather than being the original body. But even then, Ei herself still acknowledges the Shogun as one of her forms of existence.
Paimon: Hey, that’s right. Do you think the Shogun counts as you?
Ei: Of course I do. It was never my intention to place control of Inazuma into anybody else’s hands.
Ei: I am me. There is only one of me, but I can exist in many different forms. It’s not important what form I exist in.
Ei: The Shogun, for example, is one of my forms of existence. The question of whether or not she is me is not determined by any of her components.
This is similar to how Focalors also refers to Furina as herself. This concept isn’t new to Genshin either; other examples of a single entity split into multiple aspects while still being “one” include Azhdaha and Och-Kan/Cocouik.
The body had been there before the divinity ever existed. It cannot be “born” after the divinity.
Can you tell me where exactly it is stated that Ei’s original body was used as the material for the Shogun? As far as I know it was probably created using branches of Irminsul just like Wanderer’s body, which was only revealed in Durin’s story quest.
If you use this logic of the divinity being separate, then would all of the Archons be only “half” Archons except Mavuika who is somehow able to be an Archon despite not having divinity? The whole person should be the Archon, not just one aspect of them.
Also going to bring up Zhongli’s voice line about Furina again. If she isn’t Focalors, then why is she stated to have formed a contract with “her own self” and why is it stated that “her divinity has vanished”?
“She made a contract with her own self to save the nation, strictly adhered to it for over five centuries without once wavering, and even fooled the Heavenly Principles in the end... I have great respect for approaches to justice that place exacting demands not only on others, but also on the self. Though her divinity has vanished and the throne of the Archon is no more, Furina will go down in Fontaine's history as a God of Justice worthy of recognition.”
Furina was as much the Archon as the Focalors inside the Oratrice was (each being half), but she is no longer the Archon because she destroyed the Throne.
No. Focalors was the archon. Furina has never been an archon; she didn't die because of the curse Focalors put on her. Focalors and Furina are two separate beings.
the propechy will only work if the one actually ruling as Hydro Archon is recognized as such. She is not anymore, but she by proxy of other half of Hydro Archon is by intents and purpose the representative of Hydro currently. Reflected in annual archon anniversary picture
There is no other half. The body has no significance there. Ei discarded her body and even used it as material for the shogun, yet shogun is not the archon, Ei is, even as spirit.
purpose the representative of Hydro currently.
?? No, lorewise neuvilette is the representative of hydro.
there is other half up until the Sinner's Finale cutscene. The body is significant, the plan wouldnt work if the body was not present nor considered as Hydro Archon. No, Shogun is made the same way Scaramouce is made. Furina is no longer archon, she used to be one until her divine half destroy the throne
lorewise neuvilette is the representative of hydro
does he appear anywhere where the other 6 representatives of the elements were protrayed? Nope.
Means literally nothing.
Means she still representative of Hydro archon even if she no longer was
Read again the propechy lol. Literally said Hydro Archon must weep on her throne. It wont work if she's not recognized as one. The plan also requires Hydro Archon to both sit on the throne and collecting energy for destorying it in secret.
Explain to me dear mister-definitely-100%-read-the-lore, how would either the propechy or the plan works if by your opinion, the human part is not required.
Furina used to be hydro archon. Focalors was gnostic name, she still used to be Oceanid-turned human and then receiveing the tittle. Furina as the body xperienced being the archon before being split
That's because the arts are about the main pushes of the region
Furina still appears in 5.0 and 6.0 arts. Take your hate boner elsewhere
Focalors was the Archon, who then split herself into two. The part in the Oratrice was one part of her and Furina was the other. She wasn't a created separate vessel the way the Shogun or the Wanderer is.
They're still separate beings. Furina is not Focalors, and Focalors was the archon while Furina was nothing but an ordinary human from the start, this was explicitly mentioned in the quest.
the propechy will only work if the one actually ruling as Hydro Archon is recognized as such. She is not anymore, but she by proxy of other half of Hydro Archon is by intents and purpose the representative of Hydro currently. Reflected in annual archon anniversary picture
and it is said that the propechy requires the Hydro Archon to weep on her throne.
She's is the body of Focalors, they used to be one, she used to be archon. She no longer are now, yet she still treated as one in every promotional/anniversary material
Nope. The divine half of focalors is the one that possessed elemental throne, and the one that died when elemental throne was destroyed. Furina was merely an actor.
None of these guys are the Archon, Furina was simply acting as the archon until focalors died, Neuvillette is the hydro dragon sovereign, and Columbina is Kuutar, a moon god or smth, I forgot her official title in the game.
Probably Columbina takes over as the "Hydro Archon" by proxy since the real Hydro Archon is dead, the throne is destroyed, the "Hydro Archon" is just a regular human, and the one who currently holds the Hydro Authority hates Archons
She is not an Archon, she's a moon goddess, not only have there only ever been 7 archons, making Columbina an archon kinda goes against the fact that she just wants to be able to hang out with people and be treated normally.
actually, that's one of my suspicion about Morax, like he doesn't want to be looked up anymore and choose to mingle with humans, and kind of "stepped down" as the Geo Archon...
but he doesn't drop the Geo Authority and pass it to a successor... why? Because he can't, the Authority is his to begin with
Meanwhile geo is dead.
I saw it myself, rex lapis was assassinated at the right of descenion.
I say Geo is undead, it sometimes gets something
Physical is dead, buried and its grave is danced upon
Well duh it doesn't even have an archon smh
That is gonna be Capitano. Sandrone will enable enchanced Superconduct. /s
Man I can't wait for Natlan, I hope Skirk becomes a super important character in Natlan's AQ, and with Capitano already there? It's gonna be so peak.
Oh man Natlan can't come sooner. Emilie released just before so that means just like Kazuha she's an important character and super meta right?
I decree Dain to be the physical archon. It would probably piss off a lot of people and that sounds funny.
When they made Freminet, they may as well have said "We don't really care about this one. Let the writers have him."
(I mention the writers cause while Freminet's mental illness themed event story wasn't my favourite in terms of story flow or gameplay, but I enjoyed and appreciated the thoughtful representation of mental illness.)
I want to hug him SO BADLY!
And the dance is the flamenco!
Meanwhile Noelle gets a positive out of almost everything. Itto? She gets Redhorn and Gorou. Furina? Noelle is like the single best character for getting the most out of Furina's kit. Xilonen? She's also one of Noelle's best team members. Hexerei? That's an Albedo buff, and he's another of Noelle's popular team members. Durin himself also, is a good support for Noelle teams while enabling Hexerei for Albedo. Lunar Crystallize? Noelle is going to make great use of that too. Hoping Varka will bring a knights of favonius buff that affects her too.
i heard the blonde-haired outlander may have been responsible
I hear he's possibly Rex Lapis' reincarnation.
We're literally about to have a ground breaking new geo mechanic
Noelle about to bring in the dough
She's not an archon like character though.
Daughter of istaroth
She wasn't built up to be a deity who's the focus of a nation's main story, neuvilette had more build up to take over, all of nod krai is columbina story.
Not really ground breaking
Literally ground breaking
If Geo is dead Physical is in purgatory or some shit.
Lunar Crystallize is gonna save the element.
Not only does it deal damage, but it also creates unbreakable Geo constructs.
George especially navia getting a huge buff with columbina.
Rex Lapis... Assassinated?
At the rite of descension!
favourite element and color*
all skins blue💀
You're blue now. That's my attack!
Da ba dee da ba di.
their company logo is literally blue......
https://www.mihoyo.com/
Yeah i notice characters that got skins are almost cryo and hydro hoping they also give skins to other elements.
Maybe count again.
Pyro 5
Hydro 5
Cryo 4
Electro 3
Doesn't jean also have a summer skin?
The point was that it's not just hydro and cryo being ahead of all others.
It's funny how that we don't have a "hydro archon" in the game
Water takes too many shapes to have an archon
If not archon, then why archon shaped? :c
Hot take, but i think with the system of elements in genshin, the "ability to take any shape" are possible for all elements
flashbacks to Oceanid ..maybe the hydro archon is the friends we made along the way (or the sibling we lost)
Why need a Hydro Archon when you have A MOTHERFUCKING MOON GODDESS!!
You know what, its actually the same.
Ofc i love my moon goddess
Ykw absolutely the moon rules
Also it seems to be Hoyo's favourite accent colour
Not to nitpick, but I am still irrationally frustrated by the Frost Moon (reincarnation) being hydro lol
Also, wouldn't it have made more sense if the Eternal Moon was the one perpetuating its existence with reincarnation? Regardless of lore ofc
Moons affect the tides of a planet, and as Columbina isn't the moon itself (would be a girlfriend shill otherwise :3) but is instead affected by the frost moon, it makes sense that she's hydro in turn.
In lore it’s said that the Eternal Moon was responsible for creating Teyvat’s tides, not the FrostMoon though
But since there is only one moon now doesn’t the frost moon create tide now?
I don't think a moon can suddenly just inherit a new job, plus, someone correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think the tides went haywire or anything when the eternal moon got destroyed.
r/brandnewsentence
"When the Eternal Moon fell, the heavens and earth were thrown into chaos."
They say it themselves on the web event WITH the visual of sea rising onto land.
Sorry, but I forget web events exist, I haven't done one since I was new in like mid Sumeru, outside of the yearly stuff calculating your data.
I find that surprising. You didn't even hear about The Song of Welkin Moon web event? It was the biggest thing when it first came out, especially all the hype for Nod-Krai.
Well, now you know.
No I didn't, I don't really go into subs to often, in my 3 or so years of genshin I've maybe gone onto the actual sub 4 times, and any Genshin videos I watch are just challenges or account fixes, like Mistahfeet–The Michael Jordan of GI–and VaskeVoid for the account fixes.
The only lore I really know are the main quests, assuming I interpret the non-obvious stuff right, story quests, and the summer event quests.
No the eternal moon caused a lot of floods after its death, its why the chasm has so many marine fossils and why Inazuma is an archipelago
That's how moons work
I do get the logic and it's creative, but it's still a little personal pet peeve of mine ':D
Another reason why I think Eternal Moon would've sounded better imo. No issue with that being hydro. Guess Eternalmoon Scions doesn't sound as good lol (Scions of the Eternal Moon tho? Hmm)
Isn't it revealed she isn't the frost moon ? She's a new moon called the welkin moon
Well, the details are in the next patch, so who knows how that happens. I kinda expect she'll "create" a new Moon inside the borders of which she becomes the goddess of or something. She's still the reincarnation or has SOME closer connection to the Frost Moon, hence why she couldn't hold the other Marrows and the Frost Marrow doesn't exist (cause it's the one not broken.)
Correct me if I'm wrong or missed something tho. I'm forgetful ':)
Hasn't it already been said that Nod Krai was the fourth moon that couldn't form and shattered into Teyvat, which is the current Nod Krai? And it was speculated that the fourth moon is the Welkin Moon.
Oh, right. Guess she'll reawaken it or something.
Theory/Fanfic tangent: Maybe she never was the Frost Moon and if there was a Marrow from it, they would quickly realize that she can't hold that either.
If that was the case, I wonder if getting her to the Moon beyond the sky actually would've helped her, or she would've just gotten stranded and continued dying, because it wasn't the correct Moon.
That would also explain why she was "born" in Nod-Krai. Currently the only explanation we got is the characters theorizing that it's because of a lingering connection between Teyvat and the Moon. Which is.. a pretty vague and speculative explanation.
Anyhow, soon we'll know what the actual story Hoyo wrote is. But I think they'll go with a dual Goddess path, where she becomes a god of both. By the rule of cool.
I suggest you watch the theory/analysis videos by either Catwithbluehat or Minsleif. They both explain everything happening in the Archon quests really well while including lore from books.
Will do, thanks! I do admit, Genshin lore from before the Archons isn't my favorite in general, so I haven't been looking to collect all the facts by myself or go out of my way to know everything. That's why I like to clarify that I can miss details easily in related arguments. It'll be nice to watch someone else's comprehensive video tho, so I'll do that when I have the time :)
So youre telling me Dottore is helping Columbina by creating a 4th moon for her.
No, he's creating a fake moon, which is the "4th" moon, but technically it's not the fourth moon itself because that's the Welkin Moon, which is not known by a lot of Teyvatians. That's why they're calling it the 4th moon.
I mean it is fairly creative to make her reference the moon's ability to excude gravitational forces and create tides.
But they also probably just wouldn't want to make 2 cryo archons back to back.
Yeah, the gravity thing is fun, but that's why they should've switched the names of the Frost and Eternal moon in my opinion. Also, another person (u/Thin_Total5243) here mentioned that the Eternal Moon is the one credited for the tides in Teyvat anyways.
And fair, but now we got 3 hydro """""Archons""""", so at this point...
My headcanon is that Columbina is not from the 3 Moons, but her own Moon, The Welkin Moon.
I really like the idea! They have to include the Welkin somehow. Was that always her secret true role or is it something new made to justify her staying in Teyvat? I replied to u/Ria-sama already with a quick ramble how it could make sense in the story. Of course, it's just a little brainstorm. I do wonder how Hoyo will handle this in the next AQ.
The other moon is also called eternal, not so eternal is it now?
Exactly xd
Moon is connected to water. But also Columbia is only hydron on paper.
I just wish they switched the names of the Frost and Eternal Moon, I guess. More thematically appropriate for both gameplay and lore, I think.
Well, Kuuvahki has been compared to the primordial sea since its first mention. So the moons, who are the source of all kuuvahki, must have a similar elemental nature to the primordial sea, which is the purest hydro element.
Otherwise, it'd be kinda weird. Having frost=cryo and iridescent=pyro would leave the question of what the fuck is "eternal". It's far easier to chalk them up as just names, not the nature of the moon.
Could still be, we don't know how the Welkin Moon will be formed, but it'll probably be the Eternal Moon's remains, then it'll be a Moon reincarnating.
Yeah, I get why Hydro makes sense, just the naming is a little irritating for me. It's certainly not something I would bring up while complaining about the story tho. It's not nearly as important, just found this the perfect post to mention this detail.
And what you said is just another reason why I feel it would've been better if we switched the Frost and Eternal Moon completely (only in name). Hydro there would make total sense and we don't actually have to know the elements of other Moons, unless we get characters of them, so I wouldn't mind the Frostmoon just existing.
As for the reincarnation, that sounds like it would be interesting. But I don't write the story, so we'll just have to see.
Where was kuuvahki got compared to primordial sea? From what I remember it got compared to phlogiston as an primodial energy source predating elemental energy.
Nod Krai act 1. When Kuuvahki is mentioned, we ask Ineffa if it'sike phlogiston, she answer that according to her databases, another comparison is the primordial sea.
Then it’s not really about hydro at all.
Point she tried to make is kuuvahki, phlogiston and primordial sea are primordial sources of energy predating elemental energy. They are similar because they are all pure and ancient, not that they have any direct relation. Like kuuvahki is not directly related to hydro just because primordial sea is.
Hydro is hoyo's favorite element and blue their favourite colour.
Not to mention they also have my GOAT (Ajax Tartaglia)
The best Hydro fr
Makes sense. The hydro symbol has three moons in it.
5 if you count the little dots
The hydro archon is 3 moons in a trench coat
1 archon, 1 sovereign, 1 moon goddess sounds better.
I mean sure but not really, Furina's archon half is dead, and she doesn't have any archon duties
Furina has earned a break (and some cake) from archon duties after 500 years
The whole hydro throne is gone. There will never be another hydro archon.
Neuvillette has the full authortiy, yeah
Shes still considered an archon by the other archons and by Hoyo (who has put her in multiple archon artwork).
Honorary archron
1 archon figure*
Hydro archon status: complicated
So does that mean zhongli doesn't count as an archon either? He's literally dead
Fake dead to retire vs having your archon half literally killed by her own hands
The catch is the "Hydro Archon" itself is dead. Like, nobody will ever be able to be the Hydro Archon. Meanwhile the Geo throne is still (presumably) untouched
ruling a region isn't what make you archon its the element throne as long as zhongli keep sitting in the Geo throne in celestia eyes he is the archon
Moon goddess is also a Harbinger so even more special
Is it just me who doesnt like bina being put to archon level? Like I think it undermines who she is because in the lore shes above archons! (idk about strength tho) Our moon godess deserves her own role
I also don't like it, not cause she is ranking above the archons, but because all game we've been told there are 7 archons for each main region. And as far as I'm aware, Columbina isn't treated like an archon by Hoyo, she's treated as a moon goddess.
She kinda does. All NK Quest still called Archon Quest and all focuses or revolve around her. She also present in the annual Archon birthday photo
Cause she's the main god character of the story and she's a moon goddess. As well as Nod Krai is part of the main quests, but it still isn't an archon quest.
Unlike the others, Nod-Krai isn't a chapter in the Archon Quests, it's called "Song of the Welkin moon." If Nod Krai really was considered an actual archon quest about an archon and their region, it would be called a Chapter and Act, not the current title.
It's for that reasoning I don't consider Columbina an Archon, the main quests have always been called Archon quests, just putting Nod Krai in there when Columbina isn't even the official god of all of Nod Krai doesn't make her an Archon.
She's as much an archon as Nod Krai is a nation. That is to say, she's not an archon, just like Nod Krai is not a nation. But we all know Nod Krai is basically its own nation even though technically it's not. So by that logic, I'd say Columbina is basically the Lunar archon even though she's technically not. She occupies a comparable authority over a power (Kuuvahki) that the archons do over their elements.
Afaik, Nod Krai isn't considered an official nation by the rest of Teyvat, or else they'd talk about the 8 nations not the 7 nations.
Not to mention, Columbina is the goddess of the Frostmoon Scions. To even be considered an actual Archon she'd need to he recognized as the god of all of Nod-Krai, but she isn't.
Plus, Kuuvahki isn't an element, it's just pure energy linked to the moon, same goes for Nightsoul and Pneuma/Ouisa. It's part of the region, but it isn't what makes an Archon an Archon. Columbina is Hydro, but we already have Fontaine, the actual region of Hydro. There can't a Lunar Archon either, cause that's an elemental reaction, Venti is the Anemo Archon, not the Swirl Archon, and Raiden is the Electro Archon, not the Overload Archon, that just doesn't make sense.
This is all semantics and technicalities. She feels like the central figure that represents the region. Only other characters that feel that way are the archons. She is NOT an archon, but there's also a LOT of overlap.
Yea I dont like it either. I really dont like her being on the archon art either. The archon art is for the 7 and nobody else in my eyes. Bina needs her own place for her.
Unless she receives a powerup like Neuvillette geting back the hydro authority, she isn't above nor at same level than any archon. Arlecchino gave her moon thing to Columbina and said she was now back to "3rd harbinger level strenght" so its above base Dottore and Capitano. Even then, she gets weaker every day
Considering she's becoming the welkin moon, yeh we going above shades level for her
She's definitely not above archons , she got destroyed by dottore
Yes because her power is weak, It's been told in the story shes getting weaker everyday. + I said the moon godness in lore are above archons in storywise.
Also we been known top 3 harbingers are as strong if not more than the gods
Capitano is top 3 no? He didn't really struggle all that much against Mavuika if I remember right.
They were equal. But Capitano is extremely past his prime
So my point still stands.
I'mma be honest, idk how it didn't hit me that he was past his prime. I guess seeing him still be so powerful may have skewed that perception a bit.
You're acting like Dottore also isn't above the archons. He's literally on the level of the shades now.
Above shades with the 3 moon's powers
By next patch shes literally gonna be shades tier or above lol
She will be stronger than shades after 6.3 🤭, if not equivalent at least.Or it could be the case of growing over time. Because she is the new moon maybe it will take time to gain full strength.
How can people say that? We have no feats for any of them.
after 6.3, I said,
Also some proof of her having shade authority is already there, like in her character idle animations, she slows down time when she play around with her dove and she has revive passive too.
The current shade powers originally belong to the three moon sisters.
Hydro archon is both 3 archon and 0 archon
Just finished the Furina quest, did the marketing call her the hydro archon?
Before the last act of the AQ, sure, she's constantly refered to as the hydro archon. She was released at the same time as the final part of the AQ but the trailer just treated her as a celebrity. Though her official release information does not list her as having a gnosis (it just says Element: Hydro), unlike other archons
Ah thanks, makes sense considering the questline.
Columbia never was an Archon. If I have to put her into a drawer I would put her with the other harbingers.
Personally I'd classify Columbia as a capital city
CURSE YOU AUTOCORRECT! CUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURSE YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU🤬
I really do wonder if this was the plan all along, because specifically making it canonically certain that we would never have a "true" Hydro Archon in game was always such a strange move to me (beautiful storytelling as it was). Especially in a game so obsessed with keeping up its patterns for both game and marketing reasons.
But when Columbina was revealed to be the Archon-equivalent of a nation who was also Hydro, it seemed to click for me.
The power of water is its ability to take any shape
A fool who trespasses upon the waters of Qingce?
I just realized she isn't cyro
hydro is life hydro is love
2 archons and neither is one 😆
Hydro SUPREMACY
Cute hydro archon’t girls
And is the best element overall
Anything but an actual archon, oh focalors the character you would have been
Furina has never been an "archon"
Edit: furina fans are still coping, i see.
Tell Hoyo that, who keep putting her in artwork with the other 5 archons lol
The other archons also express she may have loat her divinity but in their eyes she's still an archon (from their about sections of her)
Hoyo itself says furina was merely an actor posing as the archon. So i don't know what you are talking about.
Shes literally grouped with the other 5 archons in official artwork and merchandise. What does that tell you?
That doesn't mean much lore wise. Didn't you pay attention to the fontaine archon quest, if so you should know something so elemental?
I did. She lost the divinity part of herself. But people and characters still consider her an archon with what she endured and went through.
People still call Zhongli an archon, but he isnt anymore. He faked his death and gave up his title.
It's not about divinity, it's about the elemental throne which she never possessed. Hence why she is not one. The game itself tells you that she is not one.
Plenty of beings have endured far for their nations more than furina, that doesn't make them the archon.
He is an archon because he still possesses the elemental throne.
She still present in annual archon photos, in every promotional material she still treated as such. She used to be the Archon. It requires the Hydro Archon to be weeping on her throne, If she wasnt considered as one, the plan wouldnt worked
She's by all intents and purpose is the representative of Hydro. And what is better representative than archon tittle
Zhongli, Paimon, Neuvillette, and Focalors’ divinity herself all state that Furina is Focalors in the game itself.
Zhongli’s voice line about Furina:
Neuvillette and Focalors’ divinity during the Fontaine Archon Quest:
Neuvillette and Paimon at the end of the Archon Quest:
Neuvillette’s Character Story 4:
She is not the archon, she is just a fake, a stand in actress meant to deceive. The game itself tells you this.
How about you address the actual quotes I provided from the game? The game itself tells you that they are the same. If Focalors was the Hydro Archon, then so was Furina.
They are not the same. Focalors was the divinity and memories, while furina the body. Furina is more of the other half of focalors. The quotes you quoted literally says the exact same thing.
That being said, it was the divinity that held the elemental throne, hence held the title of archon. It was her death using oratrice that destroyed the throne.
Furina, who is alive has never held the elemental throne is not an archon and has never been an archon.
You can cope however you want, but all the archons possess the elemental throne. If you want to prove furina was ever the archon, you have to prove she held elemental throne.
Okay, let’s entertain your argument. So Furina, who you do acknowledge is Focalors’ body, somehow didn’t possess the Hydro Authority at any time despite being Focalors before the split?
This states that Focalors became a god, then separated herself. So even if we do consider them separate after the split, the body should have also held the divinity and the Authority at the time before the split.
The body had gained divinity, therefore the body had predated the divinity’s existence. The only way your theory makes sense is if the divinity only obtained the Hydro Authority after splitting herself from her body. We know this isn’t the case, as the complete Focalors had already become a god and the Archon before she split herself.
I will admit that there is no “hard proof” that Furina held the Throne after the split, but that also applies to most of the other Archons. The Thrones are not exactly tangible nor is there any sort of divine requirement to hold them. We basically have to assume they hold them because they are Archons.
Logically, Furina being Focalors’ body means she would have also held possession of the Hydro Throne, but she may not have been able to use it, much like when Mavuika got entirely depowered in the Natlan Archon Quest for a while. Did Mavuika stop being the Pyro Archon during that time?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but we have not been given a method to actually tell whether a character holds a Throne or not, especially now that we know that having a Gnosis and having divinity are not requirements to be an Archon. We can only assume it is the case due to their Archon or Sovereign status except in Neuvillette’s case, since he was able to perform a feat that required the full Hydro Authority.
Furina as we know her was born after the split. So what happened before doesn't matter. After the split they are two different entities. Previously being the body of an archon doesn't matter. Shogun puppet was built using Ei's original body as material, yet she is not the archon. Ei is, even without a body, she holds the electro throne hence she is the archon. The same thing applies to focalors.
Furina was not “born” through the split, it’s more like she got amnesia. The Shogun is a completely different case as she was actually created rather than being the original body. But even then, Ei herself still acknowledges the Shogun as one of her forms of existence.
This is similar to how Focalors also refers to Furina as herself. This concept isn’t new to Genshin either; other examples of a single entity split into multiple aspects while still being “one” include Azhdaha and Och-Kan/Cocouik.
It's the same thing. Focalors took away her memories and divinity, hence creating a blank slate known as furina.
The shogun is built with Ei's body as material. If the physical body had any connection to actually being an archon then the same would apply here.
Of course, shogun was built to act as her. That doesn't have anything to do with the discussion.
Yup. Ei and shogun mirror focalors and furina a lot.
Ei the real archon, shogun the stand in.
Focalors (divinity) the real archon, furina the stand in.
The body had been there before the divinity ever existed. It cannot be “born” after the divinity.
Can you tell me where exactly it is stated that Ei’s original body was used as the material for the Shogun? As far as I know it was probably created using branches of Irminsul just like Wanderer’s body, which was only revealed in Durin’s story quest.
If you use this logic of the divinity being separate, then would all of the Archons be only “half” Archons except Mavuika who is somehow able to be an Archon despite not having divinity? The whole person should be the Archon, not just one aspect of them.
Also going to bring up Zhongli’s voice line about Furina again. If she isn’t Focalors, then why is she stated to have formed a contract with “her own self” and why is it stated that “her divinity has vanished”?
Furina was as much the Archon as the Focalors inside the Oratrice was (each being half), but she is no longer the Archon because she destroyed the Throne.
No. Focalors was the archon. Furina has never been an archon; she didn't die because of the curse Focalors put on her. Focalors and Furina are two separate beings.
focalors split herself into 2. One being the divinity and other her human body.
And only the divinity had the elemental throne, hence she is the archon.
the propechy will only work if the one actually ruling as Hydro Archon is recognized as such. She is not anymore, but she by proxy of other half of Hydro Archon is by intents and purpose the representative of Hydro currently. Reflected in annual archon anniversary picture
There is no other half. The body has no significance there. Ei discarded her body and even used it as material for the shogun, yet shogun is not the archon, Ei is, even as spirit.
?? No, lorewise neuvilette is the representative of hydro.
Means literally nothing.
there is other half up until the Sinner's Finale cutscene. The body is significant, the plan wouldnt work if the body was not present nor considered as Hydro Archon. No, Shogun is made the same way Scaramouce is made. Furina is no longer archon, she used to be one until her divine half destroy the throne
does he appear anywhere where the other 6 representatives of the elements were protrayed? Nope.
Means she still representative of Hydro archon even if she no longer was
Nope. Since it worked with furina it doesn't
Read wanderer character story. You severely lack lore knowledge.
Furina was never the hydro archon.
That's because the arts are about the main pushes of the region
Read again the propechy lol. Literally said Hydro Archon must weep on her throne. It wont work if she's not recognized as one. The plan also requires Hydro Archon to both sit on the throne and collecting energy for destorying it in secret.
Explain to me dear mister-definitely-100%-read-the-lore, how would either the propechy or the plan works if by your opinion, the human part is not required.
Furina used to be hydro archon. Focalors was gnostic name, she still used to be Oceanid-turned human and then receiveing the tittle. Furina as the body xperienced being the archon before being split
Furina still appears in 5.0 and 6.0 arts. Take your hate boner elsewhere
Focalors was the Archon, who then split herself into two. The part in the Oratrice was one part of her and Furina was the other. She wasn't a created separate vessel the way the Shogun or the Wanderer is.
Again wrong. If she was the archon, why is she not dead? And did she possess the elemental throne?
They're still separate beings. Furina is not Focalors, and Focalors was the archon while Furina was nothing but an ordinary human from the start, this was explicitly mentioned in the quest.
the propechy will only work if the one actually ruling as Hydro Archon is recognized as such. She is not anymore, but she by proxy of other half of Hydro Archon is by intents and purpose the representative of Hydro currently. Reflected in annual archon anniversary picture
Buddy it was literally said in the archon quest that Furina was not an archon 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
and it is said that the propechy requires the Hydro Archon to weep on her throne.
She's is the body of Focalors, they used to be one, she used to be archon. She no longer are now, yet she still treated as one in every promotional/anniversary material
Nope. The divine half of focalors is the one that possessed elemental throne, and the one that died when elemental throne was destroyed. Furina was merely an actor.
None of these guys are the Archon, Furina was simply acting as the archon until focalors died, Neuvillette is the hydro dragon sovereign, and Columbina is Kuutar, a moon god or smth, I forgot her official title in the game.
Exactly.
Pyro has three Archons; Mavuika, Bennett and Dehya
Neuvilette is not an archon.
Furina was a quasi archon because she was made from a piece of the archon.
Probably Columbina takes over as the "Hydro Archon" by proxy since the real Hydro Archon is dead, the throne is destroyed, the "Hydro Archon" is just a regular human, and the one who currently holds the Hydro Authority hates Archons
She is not an Archon, she's a moon goddess, not only have there only ever been 7 archons, making Columbina an archon kinda goes against the fact that she just wants to be able to hang out with people and be treated normally.
actually, that's one of my suspicion about Morax, like he doesn't want to be looked up anymore and choose to mingle with humans, and kind of "stepped down" as the Geo Archon...
but he doesn't drop the Geo Authority and pass it to a successor... why? Because he can't, the Authority is his to begin with