"your first draft is fully shitted out of your ass."

The new shakespeare

Meanwhile, OP: procrastinating like the rest of us

I appreciate you taking your own advice, leading us by showing, not telling

This is like the ultimate /rj of the circlejerk sub and the best piece of real advice on here all rolled into one, and shown by example too. I love every second of it.

The good advice of "Make it exist first, you can make it good later."

If this dude edits the post to be more grammatically correct and readable, that would be the most meta shit I've ever seen.

Most successful writers don’t give a shit about front-loading world design. In fact, it’s generally going to hinder your productivity. If you want to jerk off all day and draw up a family tree for Sir Dingleberry Dipshit, The Elder, go right ahead, but that won’t help you write a story that makes it to the page, and it certainly won’t make me care enough to read it.

While this is generally better advice than simply naval gazing around and world building yourself to death with character sheets and the like, I think a general structure is helpful, especially with newer writers. And even in your first draft, while it is not set in stone and you will cut whole scenes, characters, plot lines, you should still be trying to do your best with every sentence you write. I find the advice, “Just write, everything is shit in the first draft” diminishing, frankly. Write as well as you can, with words that move the reader and create a picture in his or her mind. Even trying your best, you will still fail a lot of the time. But just vomiting out word salad is going to make that second draft a nightmare when you get to it. My advice is just to always be trying, trying your absolute hardest to say something original and interesting. Trying is hard, because when you fail it hurts more. But it’s the only way to truly make progress as a writer. You have to care.

TL;DR, profanity removed - your first draft doesn’t have to be perfect, just write

I run a creative writing school for middle- and high schoolers, and I always tell them that no one in the world -- not Rick Riordan, not Stephen King, not even Shirley Jackson -- is a good writer. They're good revisers, and that shit takes practice.

Having written 8 actual books, I say do whatever you gotta do to get going.

If a character sheet or an outline gets you off the Internet and into your project, do it.

If notes and sketches and exercises get you going, use them. 

If the idea of staring at a blank page makes you freeze up, then grease the skids.

This needed a second draft

Good advice KissTheCockRing

Preach. Everyone needs to hear this. I don't care if you're 14 or 54. Write the draft. Edit it later. Get out of your own way and write it.

The reason why I never finished any story isn’t because I didn’t write, but because I wanted everything to be perfect and it fucked my flow immensely. Thank you for the reminder that a draft is supposed to be bad ❤️

Awesome tantrum. On a serious note, I agree with the concept, vibe and construxtive anger

This is written like a first draft. Intentional or not, it makes this even better. Lol. 👍

Thank you I needed this

“Here’s the carch” 👍🫠

i love that people come onto writing subs, make huge posts about prose and character definitions and needing well thought out plans, and then you ask them for something they’ve written and, suddenly, they aren’t writers.

I like the energy.

You would be interesting at a casino. Or a bullfight.

Lots of people post on this sub 'is it too late to learn how to write', 'can I write this?', 'im new but want to learn how to write'. The answer to all of them is: do it. Write. The only way to learn this hobby is to do it. A lot. And get used to being a fucking failure. Most of us are. Those that become successful ignore writing advice from random people online. Learning to experiment is the most important part of writing.

i needed this & also i love you

100%. If you want to write, like genuinely truly want to write, then you’re going to write.

My current inspiration is that the woman who wrote Manacled/Alchemized explained in an interview how she wrote 900k words almost entirely on her notes app, and initially started writing while literally holding her sleeping infant because they wouldn’t nap if they weren’t being held.

So nowadays I’m knocking out a couple hundred words just in a notes app on my phone during downtime at my job. Like I’m waiting for the elevator typing out dialogue. I’m at the bank in line finishing up a scene. I’m on hold with our contractor outlining my next chapter.

No joke, buy a cheap-ass microphone (hands-free) off of your favorite retailer.

Windows 11 has Voice Control built in.

Google Docs has voice typing as well.

The Win11 thing is actually pretty darned good.

You don't even have to type! A thousand words is easy when you speak it.

Do it every day. Edit later. That's the point.

As Mr. Nike used to say, just do it.

It's hard. I've had people share their first draft and even though it's not perfect, it's so much better. My first draft is basically 1st grader lever with soooo much basic words 😩

Genuinely enjoyed this post and your replies to ppl's comments

Hold up: we can edit the story? Is this legal?

Bold of you to assume I'm procrastinating because I'm a perfectionist...

(I'm procrastinating because I got sucked into a game and it's all I've been doing these past 4 days send help)

Permission to print this out and frame it, kissthecockring?

Reminds me of my mother's advice if you really want something to exist you'll do it there's nothing that can stop you.

I like your passion. Wait is this just mania?

This is maybe the best writing advice I've seen on this sub all year.

I think this post was a first draft too….

Honestly, I've found that writing a web serial helps immensely with cultivating the mindset of "just get the words down". Set yourself a chapter release schedule that is lenient enough that you're not stressing out, but still frequent enough that you feel compelled to make meaningful progress every day. For me, that's twice a week for chapters of 2000+ words, so I aim for at least 500 words a day (the goal is to actually write 3 chapters, or close to it, each week so that you're always ahead of the schedule by a couple chapters).

Now, you might be thinking: wouldn't the fact that you're publishing it for the world to see make you even more hesitant? Admittedly, this is true for the first few weeks, but once you submit a dozen chapters or so and see that it isn't so scary, it helps you to see that your first draft is good enough in accomplishing one of the most crucial factors in a long-form story: continuing the narrative. Soon enough, your thoughts will shift from "dang, I wish I'd done a couple more revisions of that last chapter" to "I need to write down the continuation from that last cliffhanger and keep this train moving."

(That's not to say you shouldn't edit at all. I always do 1-2 revisions before publishing a chapter: one for fixing spelling and grammar errors, and another for making slightly more substantial tweaks like rewording sentences or filling in some detail I thought of after writing everything down. But even while doing this, I maintain the mindset of "this is good enough" so I can schedule the chapter quickly and move onto the next.)

On average, how many drafts are needed before it resembles something that can be shown to the public? I know I can google this, but want to hear people’s personal experience.

I’m on book 6 and having the time of my life! I completely agree.

Yup. I would edit as i went with my first book i was writing, and it was taking forever and eventually it got abandoned. 

This time im saying fuck it and carrying on with the first draft shitty momentum. Get it down. Get the dialogue, plot, gist of the settings. Im leaving whole blank spaces to fill in later. Writing stuff like (Describe building) even, if coming up with full sentences will slow me down or be a barrier. Or bullet point key words for a setting, that will be formed into a sentence later.

Maybe some people's first drafts are more complete. But ive done that and its tedious and leads to me losing steam. I want the momentum to carry me to the finish, even if it means second draft will be a lot of work. Havjng a fully written first draft would be SO motivating to do the work if the second. Thanks for the reminder to keep doing this!

I needed this, thank you!! I've been procrastinating for the last week because I've been in my head about how terrible my writing is so far and you just pulled me right back out. I'm going to go open my laptop and get back to the tippy-typing now.

The fact that this post is so raw and stream-of-consciousness makes it probably one of the first times I've seen a post like this and it ACTUALLY hits. First time I've thought "you know what. I WILL just fucking write the shit out of my stupid pompous novel idea that I started writing a year ago and then gave up because I started embarrassing myself". So, thank you, my friend! I will resume shitting the first draft out of my butt this evening. A Christmas miracle.

Only question is: what if, in true ADHD form, I keep jumping back and forth between different scenes/sections as I write them. Is the answer to just write them because the temptation to edit as I go is overwhelming. (Edit: because I keep changing my mind, because my conscious brain takes a while to catch up. Case in point: I came back 15 min later to edit this comment to say this lol).

if your first draft is good you're doing something WRONG

In general, sure. But that doesn't mean you should intentionally write it as shit.

As Philip Pullman said: "What is fundamental in a book is tone, the tone of voice, and to change that is to change every single sentence."

Your first draft should be absolutely spot-on with your tone and the style of your prose. What you do in drafts 2-99 is going to change the content and the flow and the sequence, but if you can't get your tone right in the first draft, you're not even writing the same book.

Step 1: shitting Step 2: sculpting shit

That was the advice I received on writing my thesis, should work on any form of writing.

And read.

An amazing amount of questions can be answered before you come here, don't spend 2 seconds searching, and write thread 84922 looking for the same thing if you'll just read a book every now and then.

This! And to add onto this: New authors, stop writing half a chapter or two and asking people on Reddit if it’s “good” enough. There’s really no way to answer that for a story that’s unfinished. The story will change and progress so much even within that first draft. For the love of all things holy please just fucking write

This might just be my favorite post on here

Thank you kind redditor. Instead of writing today, I'll keep this message in mind while working on my character sheets and multi page document about the setting of my fantasy trilogy /s

+1

💯

Shall I just write even if I don’t have a full plot 😭😭

🔥✍️

Thank you I need to read this.

You mean Shakespeare didn't write his plays in one sitting? Shocking! (hee hee)

...I was litterally just telling my therapist today that I keep getting in my own way with my writing...

Were you also at my therapy appointment?

I really need to follow this advice. Lol

Are you my creative writing tutor from my first year of uni? Cause this is what he used to say, with fewer fucks mind you.

As someone who struggle with his final essay in college, I say yes---first you need to get first draft done, no matter how smelly, how shitty and how horrifying it is. Then, when you started to change it, you will notice the part that make it bad. In other words, it is writing itself that make you think, and simply thinking in front of a desk will give you nothing.

I needed to read this so bad. Have a blessed Christmas OP, you made mine with this post. 😊

This is the realest advice anyone will ever get on this sub.

I'd add one more layer to this, from my own experience building a business from nothing in 90s Tokyo:

**Your first draft isn't just clay. It's a crime scene.**

It's messy. It's chaotic. There's evidence everywhere, and half of it doesn't make sense. There are dead ends, false leads, and characters who show up for no reason and then disappear.

The "editing" phase isn't about cleaning it up. It's about being a detective. You walk through the crime scene of your first draft and you ask one question over and over:

"What *really* happened here?"

You find the one clue that matters—the one line of dialogue that feels true, the one character reaction that feels honest, and you throw away all the other garbage. You build your entire case around that one piece of evidence.

That's how you find the story. You don't invent it. You discover it in the wreckage of your first attempt.

Your post is 100% correct. Stop trying to be an architect. Be a vandal. Be a criminal. Just get the damn thing on the page. The detective work comes later.

My man, you are speaking my heart. My truth, what I tell people always. WRITE

Damn that's the shittiest first daft I've read today.

First impression: paragraph breaks are your friend.

2nd impression: Caps lock is cruise control for cool.

3rd impression: spell check

4th impression /s

Thank you for the laugh! You make great points. Much love and respect 🙌👊

Why is this entire sub mostly just post after post saying the same thing?

And let's be honest here... for a writing sub, the writing in most of the posts here tends to be awful. This post is just rambling, cursing, and the most generic advice that gets posted almost daily.

Is this really what the mods want r/writing to be?

Really?

It must be, because they don't allow actual writing in r/writing. That's why most posts in this sub resemble this one.

What an astute and unique post

But but but it’s a masterpiece the first time! I’m a tortured soul like Wednesday Adams and don’t need to edit. Also, can I get ideas from you for my setting? I want it to be space punk underwater with land animals that live under water and water animals that live on land. Also, how do I write a likable protagonist. Should I write to market or write what ever I want so I can make money. Should I use ChatGPT for my art? Hi my question is original and am confident if I used the search button in Reddit I wouldn’t find anything similar, but i want to write a smut but think sex is gross, any advice? Can I jump genres? If I write a smutty cowboy dinosaur book that’s high fantasy does it have to be Romantasy? Can you read my prologue or first chapter and tell me why it’s boring pretend I wrote multiple paragraphs here about a character that gives essentially Bella Swan energy

I need this post printed and framed on my wall! THIS is my new year's resolution. Thank you for yelling at me. I WILL FINISH MY FKNG DRAFT IN 2026!

AI could never recreate this masterpiece of a post bravo OP

People on this sub get so mad at objectively good advice.

Good post OP. As usual, it will ruffle feathers of people who’ve become emotionally attached to their procrastination excuses.

While the tone is harsh, I agree with most of your rant I strongly disagree that the first isn’t supposed to be good, though.

Please use paragraphs and spell check.

No, tell us what you really think.

Smoke us up!

I've never related more to a post before

I needed this, thanks

Thanks for the gold kind stranger!!

I’ve been telling myself that for like 10 years

I needed this thanks!

I needed to hear this. Thank you.

I've been struggling through Act 2 of my first full-length novel, after the first several chapters flowed so easily. I realized I needed to just get a notebook to hash things out to see where they go before actually typing up the next few chapters.

I'm in uncharted waters, but this reminded me that I'm heading the right direction.

Yeah this one might get me to actually start writing. Youre so cool

I’ve always been the reader and have poor creativity, admiring other writers and never bothering to just write bcuz I was afraid I’d be lacking in ability. I’m just gonna do it like you said. I’ll put in the work to improve and just do my best. Thxs, OP 👊

i love just writing some bullshit it makes me happy

You have no idea how much I needed to read this.

the most beautiful thing I've read all day, and I'm being sincere

I'm livid. You probably crapped this out in five minutes while high as a kite, but THIS stupid drivel of all things was the kick in the butt I needed Hahahaha. Thank you. Sincerely, man. Sure, you've said nothing new or groundbreaking, but your feral earnest sincerity is nothing if not contagious. I'm laughing, AND mad at the same time. But most importantly, genuinely inspired. I hate you, you bastard Hahahaha.

Idk my issue is more like "what" to write rather than "how"...

Thank you so much for this masterpiece. I'm saving it and screenshotting and tattooing it on my ass. Perfect is the enemy of complete

i try to keep this in mind but sometimes i need someone else to yell it at me again. thanks, op.

I can't write. My current excuse is I have no fingers

if anyone asks why you're writing say fuck you

hell yeah

Not reading allat but i agree with the first half that i did read

"if someone asks what you're writing say fuck you" Danggg, OP was frustrated. Lmao I can literally imagine a character full on, scribbling on some paper with a white cloth wrapped around his head whilst on some office break. And a coworker calmly says,"What ya writing". And I reply FUCKYOUUOUAIAIAUUAUAUA AND LOSE MY SHIT.

An outline is like a grocery list, the first draft is the prep work to make sure I have all the ingredients laid out and ready, and editing is when I actually start making the meal.

Thinking of it this way is what’s gotten me to actually start writing my book. What ultimately matters is the editing process where I make sure I did everything correctly.

I tried this lovely piece of advice. I was 15 chapter, 30k word in to a story When I decided to reread it form the beginning and I completely fucked up. The promise I made in chapter 1-3 were never fulfilled, the core idea was completely forgotten, the characters were Butcherd tropes. I tried to revise it fix it multiple times on multiple chapters. In the end I scraped the project if I wanted to make a story I'm proud of I would need to delete everything and start from scratch.

I have since then started a new project and switched my work method to Conscious deliberate quality writing and I'm having fun, I love what I'm writing my output right now is 500 words a day when I have the will and time while before I it was 2000 every day.

Word count is anather thing that was holding me back I was constantly trying to write as much as possible to reach that word count. In the end it brought me more misery than help.

Anyways the moral of the story the common advice I see is awful for me the writing culture I find myself in is more harmful then helpful.

I use a sort of a mental accounting trick where I write in a blue font and I free write, allowing my stuff to be as dumb or weird as possible and I dont worry about show not tell. I'm just trying to figure out what the story is.

Then I go back after I have a few thousand words and edit it, improve the language, possibly delete a lot of it. Then I save it black font and it's locked in as part of the first draft.

This is the first draft of a comment!

posts I agree with but can't read and also want to ignore because I want to autistically spend 20 hours on a character sheet

This guy just writes

In the groups I am on, this is something I always tell to people. Just write. Go for it.

There is always someone that presents me or everyone else a big piece of world building they are working on with detailed character sheets, but no story to put all together.

Their answer? Yeah I still don't feel the world is ready.

Or I still haven't come up with a story.

That won"t come up until you start working on the story, not the world building.

Heck, just write a story, nothing else. Do it short a novellete, 50k words. If you are a fast writer you can have that first draft done in a month, then edit. Fix the draft, see what connects, what is not needed, what can you add or move around? You know... Write! World building is a different process that is meant to feed your story, not the other way around.

NOW DO A ROAST OF THE SECOND DRAFT - that's where I am stuck

Saving this, because i do need to shit my draft just, like, directly outta my ass.

Don’t yell at me 😭 (I needed this)

Yikes

Finally someone speaks to me in a language that I can fucking understand! Thank you! (ass)

This is terrible advice. I did that and have a lot of unstructured rubbish which is a lot to manage. I went back and sorted the character arcs and am now outlining in line with their characer arcs and have an amazing story deveoping instead of a huge wordcount that is going to be cut to just about nothing and redone.

I think you meant for this to go in your diary.

Good job op, love your voice and you leading by example. To the naysayers: If the ai companies are stealing everyone's words from here, why feed the machine perfect human-edited text? I personally don't think one should work overly hard to prove they are perfect in casual spaces like this, certainly not in your own draft that is for you to edit later. Also, hire a copy editor when you are ready. They know better than most writers and won't be surprised or give two shits about you being imperfect. Just make sure to fix the mistakes they find and don't be a diva.

Look, you're going to take this upvote and like it!!!😄

people need to realize that there are no secrets to writing. there's no shortcut, no magic bullet. you sit down and write one word after the other until you're done. if you don't have a first draft done, then none of the writing advice will do you any good. if you can't hammer out a first draft, then what have you really written?

You write like a 14-year-old who has just discovered curse words. :p

Im trying, but I'm not a very good writer. Lol

Hmm... I might be doing it wrong by thinking too much if mine is proper or not... 🤔

"I'm about to finish the second chapter of the book I've been wanting to write for almost ten years."

Unfortunately, that fact is what keeps me from really trying.

I know T_T My problem is I think too much instead of just jotting things down and going back to improve later. Which often times can lead me to questioning if what I'm writing is even any good, which leads to self doubts, and ultimately derails my motivation and drive to write that particular story. Rinse and repeat ad nauseam. Aside from something I wrote to try and deal with some emotions that came up, I haven't finished a single story this year. That hasn't happened in close to a decade. I mostly write short stories, usually about a dozen or two pages, but every time without fail I started, doubted if it was worth continuing, and just abandoned it to sit in an ever growing folder of unfinished projects.

🔥