This is why recently, there’s a usual rise in racism against South Asians in Canada. Canadians see them as scamming the immigration process and social services. From taking advantage of the food bank systems, to using school in the guise of international students and working under the table to fraudulently stay and work in the country and now this.
But in reality, it’s the government and the corporations that failed Canadians. The government is using the “increase in population” to increase its tax income and the corporations are them as a means of cheap labor without social protections.
It’s a group of people using all the resources they can to game the system and the people who run the system to take advantage of this shift in population dynamics to increase their profits.
The article doesn't even specify which nationality the suspects are. Also, according to the article, if they are found guilty then they won't be eligible to have their asylum cases heard.
This particular article doesn’t state names or ethnicities but there are a large number reports of extortion groups targeting the south Asian business community.
This is just the latest development of a larger story.
So maybe it’s possible given OPs comment history being in Indian subs that he or she is just making this non related issue about themselves? You’re such a pitiful apologist
Canada has a been historically proud to be a refuge for those threatened in their homelands, that is why the laws are what they are. Sentiment against immigrants has definitely turned in the last 10 years, but legislation and judicial interpretation is slower to change with it. Cases like this with bad actors exploit the soft edges of those laws, but the obvious issues here may be enough to spur faster action from the government, especially under Carney’s rightward push.
This is so fucking dumb, I get needing to make it easy for people to claim asylum, but if you are convicted of a crime here, it's too bad and your sent back even if you legit had a claim for asylum. Also, they should have to do it in the first week of arriving. We've made it so easy that there's no excuse.
EDIT: Yes, I know they haven't been convicted yet, but it will cause years of delay after conviction.
CBSA says "persons found inadmissible" for reasons such as "serious criminality" or "organized criminality" won't have their refugee claims heard and instead will be ordered to leave the country.
So as far as I can tell, their hearings will be suspended until after the trial, and if found guilty then they won't have their asylum claims heard and they'll be deported.
"CBSA says Canada has legal obligations with respect to asylum, and Canadian law allows persons applying for refugee status to have their cases heard, if they are eligible.
But the agency also says that if individuals are ineligible for a hearing on "more serious grounds," it will ask the Refugee Board of Canada to suspend proceedings until it is decided if individuals are eligible."
"CBSA says "persons found inadmissible" for reasons such as "serious criminality" or "organized criminality" won't have their refugee claims heard and instead will be ordered to leave the country."
OK fine. However, the issue here is the cost to process those claims to make such a determination. It's wasting taxpayer money and holding up real claims. They should be rejected upon submission.
Many other countries also have systems where if you are arrested, you are presumed guilty. Others allow women to be stoned if they expose their faces in public.
Luckily, we live in a country with laws, rights, and protections for all. If a person comes here, and commits a crime, and is found guilty, they should be punished. Then, as per our laws, be given proper due process before being deported. It is "pretty easy" without skipping steps.
Secondly, if your country happens to be the US, your second paragraph is all but nullified. Shanghaiing people and shipping them to overseas internment camps is hardly due process.
Considering this story is about individuals in Canada, and, as is likely obvious from the maple leaf next to my name, I'm Canadian. I can say we do have due process here, which I support, even for non citizens.
And yeah, obviously what the trump regime is doing clearly violates the US constitution, and numerous laws both US and international/rules of war. Those actions have put the "free-est country on earth" on the same level as the 3rd world dictatorships many Americans look down their noses at and call "shitholes". You won't see me make excuses for them sending people to CEKOT or alligator Auschwitz.
You just argued my point, if they are proven innocent in court then they can proceed to apply for refugee status. My understanding is that they applied for refugee status AFTER they were arrested and are awaiting a hearing which is not right. I feel they should only because to apply if they have no pending court cases. Once the court case is cleared then they can apply.
They are presumed innocent until proven guilty. Preventing them from obtaining an asylum hearing because they were arrested would be presuming that they are guilty, which for better or worse, is not the principle we’ve built our society on.
They are presumed innocent until proven guilty. Preventing them from obtaining an asylum hearing because they were arrested would be presuming that they are guilty, which for better or worse, is not the principle we’ve built our society on.
Presumed innocence means the state must prove criminal guilt beyond a reasonable doubt before punishment. It does not mean that criminal proceedings must be put on hold, bypassed, or subordinated to immigration processes. Canada already restricts liberty, movement, bail, and travel for people who are merely accused of crimes, and this is not considered a violation of the presumption of innocence.
An asylum hearing is not a punishment, but it is also not a right that overrides criminal accountability. Asylum is a discretionary protection mechanism, not a constitutional entitlement. The state has a legitimate interest in ensuring that people accused of serious crimes committed in Canada do not use parallel legal processes to delay, complicate, or evade domestic justice. Requiring criminal matters to be resolved first does not presume guilt. It simply establishes procedural order.
Canada already applies this principle in other areas of law. People with pending criminal charges are routinely denied visas, held in immigration detention, restricted from travel, or delayed in citizenship or permanent residence applications. The law clearly distinguishes between adjudicating guilt and imposing administrative consequences while charges are outstanding.
Allowing asylum claims to proceed while criminal cases are pending creates perverse incentives. It enables delay tactics, weakens prosecutions, complicates court jurisdiction, and invites organized abuse of refugee protections. A sequencing rule closes this loophole without denying anyone due process.
Presumption of innocence protects against punishment without proof, not against accountability or procedural order. A person can be presumed innocent and still be required to answer criminal charges before asking the state for protection.
Exactly. Either we all have a right to due process in canada, citizens, PRs, TFWs or those here illegally. Or none of us have the right to due process.
But without the due process, how do you know which are 'real' claims and which to reject? Thats the whole point of the process, to sort out which is which.
Except you run into that little thing known as a presumption of innocence. Charged is not the same as convicted, and to treat it the same would open the system to serious risk of abuse (picture people being charged based on the colour's of their skin as a way to fast-track 'getting rid of "those" people' and similar racist results). We have an unfortunate history of systemic racism in this country, and we absolutely need to maintain what checks and balances we have developed over time as a minimum.
So then you have to wait for a proper court hearing, at which point you have exactly the evidence of criminality required to reject the application.
If they are cleared of criminality, they don't have evidence do they? Perhaps, this is where I get an education because I see your thinking as plausible but I have to understand it.
Also there’s the whole situation of “what was your crime?”
Being gay is illegal in many places
Being a female and seeking education an be a crime
Escaping the marriage you were forced into at 8 years old is also a crime in a disappointing amount of places.
People have a right to be judged on what the actual crime is, not the fact it’s a crime in their place of origin
I’m gonna slippery slope fallacy this and say if you are willing to waive due process for one person, then you can waive it for anyone. The only proof I need for this case is the many times ICE has done this exact thing this year.
What are you talking about? Your reply confused me. Firstly, this is CANADA, we do not have ICE here. Second, they are in jail awaiting a court decision, so they have due process after the court has heard their case, then they can apply for refugee status IF (and ONLY IF) they are cleared of wrongdoing by the courts. Am I missing something?
Doesn't this mean that their asylum cases will be suspended until their criminal trials have been decided? Why would that cost so much money or hold up other claims?
If these criminals are allowed to do this they could stay in the country up to four more years. Ontario has 294,423 pending asylum claims as of last month. I also read they would be allowed full health care in that time and money if they wanted to pursue college. Insanity. I hope the gov finds a way to deport them asap.
This is false. Refugee claimants receive K-12 education. If they pursue post secondary education they need to apply for and be accepted to receive study permits and pay international student rates. If their refugee claim is accepted, they are eligible to receive loans and grants the same as any Canadian citizen.
Deny, easy enough. Its not like theyre trying to escape a war. To be charged with extorsion isnt something that just happens to people daily. Its embarassing its even a consideration
Did they apply for refugee status upon entry to Canada? No = claim denied. Found guilty of crime? Instant deportation without prejudice. When our tax dollars are spent to incarcerate someone in federal prison at a cost approximately $150000 per year, I have no sympathy.
We barely afford 1/10 of that to those on social assistance who are Canadians.
The problem is that an obscure "refugee status board" is the one that gets to decide. That makes no sense at all. There should be NO application and NO decisions made within an "immigration" department on such situations. Left hand has no clue what the right hand is doing. Hugely different competencies and pay grade needed. Carney better use this as an example of an area where a Canadian "Doge" is needed. Else conservatives will rip through this one.
If you enter another country illegally to commit crimes, how you be legible for asylum? Why is that even entertained?
“I know I was and will continue to scam you but can you also save me from facing the consequences of my actions?!”
This is why recently, there’s a usual rise in racism against South Asians in Canada. Canadians see them as scamming the immigration process and social services. From taking advantage of the food bank systems, to using school in the guise of international students and working under the table to fraudulently stay and work in the country and now this.
But in reality, it’s the government and the corporations that failed Canadians. The government is using the “increase in population” to increase its tax income and the corporations are them as a means of cheap labor without social protections.
It’s a group of people using all the resources they can to game the system and the people who run the system to take advantage of this shift in population dynamics to increase their profits.
The article doesn't even specify which nationality the suspects are. Also, according to the article, if they are found guilty then they won't be eligible to have their asylum cases heard.
If they're working under the table they won't be paying taxes.
Why did you make this about race?
In this case it is about a specific ethnic group that is targeting other members of their own ethnic group in these extortion rings.
Are the people mentioned in the article known to be south asian? Doesn't say so in the article.
This particular article doesn’t state names or ethnicities but there are a large number reports of extortion groups targeting the south Asian business community.
This is just the latest development of a larger story.
So maybe it’s possible given OPs comment history being in Indian subs that he or she is just making this non related issue about themselves? You’re such a pitiful apologist
Because Canada is seemingly unable to alter its own laws for unknown reasons
Because they vote for the same uniparty globalists that most western countries have leading them.
Canada has a been historically proud to be a refuge for those threatened in their homelands, that is why the laws are what they are. Sentiment against immigrants has definitely turned in the last 10 years, but legislation and judicial interpretation is slower to change with it. Cases like this with bad actors exploit the soft edges of those laws, but the obvious issues here may be enough to spur faster action from the government, especially under Carney’s rightward push.
I don’t have an ounce of faith Carney will move the needle backwards on immigration or immigration laws.
Because you understand the macro cultural/financial/demographic aspects of the issue or you make general assumptions based on nothing?
A quick glance at history shows that's a lie.
This is so fucking dumb, I get needing to make it easy for people to claim asylum, but if you are convicted of a crime here, it's too bad and your sent back even if you legit had a claim for asylum. Also, they should have to do it in the first week of arriving. We've made it so easy that there's no excuse.
EDIT: Yes, I know they haven't been convicted yet, but it will cause years of delay after conviction.
Welcome to a part of the problem America's facing today.
Not the whole problem, but a part of it.
As per the article:
So as far as I can tell, their hearings will be suspended until after the trial, and if found guilty then they won't have their asylum claims heard and they'll be deported.
No one actually reading the article and just assuming claiming asylum worked, when it clearly has not.
Ask the uk
Criminal loopholes
Because Canada is a joke of a country when it comes to deporting people who commit crimes here.
Source: I am a Canadian and have seen it in the courts system first hand.
"legible" huh?
[deleted]
So if I flee to Canada instead of Venezuela make sure I go all out
✅
"CBSA says Canada has legal obligations with respect to asylum, and Canadian law allows persons applying for refugee status to have their cases heard, if they are eligible.
But the agency also says that if individuals are ineligible for a hearing on "more serious grounds," it will ask the Refugee Board of Canada to suspend proceedings until it is decided if individuals are eligible."
"CBSA says "persons found inadmissible" for reasons such as "serious criminality" or "organized criminality" won't have their refugee claims heard and instead will be ordered to leave the country."
All seems pretty reasonable to me
They need to be escorted forcefully out of the country
OK fine. However, the issue here is the cost to process those claims to make such a determination. It's wasting taxpayer money and holding up real claims. They should be rejected upon submission.
Due process is both expensive, and priceless.
Nothing is 'simple' about law enforcement. Yours is magic thinking, instead it's all hard work with pros and cons to every approach.
Not really. Many other countries don't bother to entertain foreign criminals.
Do a crime, go back home. Pretty easy.
Many other countries also have systems where if you are arrested, you are presumed guilty. Others allow women to be stoned if they expose their faces in public.
Luckily, we live in a country with laws, rights, and protections for all. If a person comes here, and commits a crime, and is found guilty, they should be punished. Then, as per our laws, be given proper due process before being deported. It is "pretty easy" without skipping steps.
Firstly, I likely do not live in your country.
Secondly, if your country happens to be the US, your second paragraph is all but nullified. Shanghaiing people and shipping them to overseas internment camps is hardly due process.
Considering this story is about individuals in Canada, and, as is likely obvious from the maple leaf next to my name, I'm Canadian. I can say we do have due process here, which I support, even for non citizens.
And yeah, obviously what the trump regime is doing clearly violates the US constitution, and numerous laws both US and international/rules of war. Those actions have put the "free-est country on earth" on the same level as the 3rd world dictatorships many Americans look down their noses at and call "shitholes". You won't see me make excuses for them sending people to CEKOT or alligator Auschwitz.
We would only be so lucky if you didn’t live in any of our countries
What the heck did i do?
'Not really' is doing a lot of (dismissive) work there. "Do" a crime presumes guilt. Being arrested literally doesn't determine guilt.
Yeah, and monkeys fly out of my butt and wood is a drink.
Yea but there are countries where it’s illegal to be a girl and seek education
Sure. But isn't that fit for a separate post? I don't really see the relevance here.
Innocent until proven guilty is also a cherished principle of our society.
You just argued my point, if they are proven innocent in court then they can proceed to apply for refugee status. My understanding is that they applied for refugee status AFTER they were arrested and are awaiting a hearing which is not right. I feel they should only because to apply if they have no pending court cases. Once the court case is cleared then they can apply.
They are presumed innocent until proven guilty. Preventing them from obtaining an asylum hearing because they were arrested would be presuming that they are guilty, which for better or worse, is not the principle we’ve built our society on.
Presumed innocence means the state must prove criminal guilt beyond a reasonable doubt before punishment. It does not mean that criminal proceedings must be put on hold, bypassed, or subordinated to immigration processes. Canada already restricts liberty, movement, bail, and travel for people who are merely accused of crimes, and this is not considered a violation of the presumption of innocence. An asylum hearing is not a punishment, but it is also not a right that overrides criminal accountability. Asylum is a discretionary protection mechanism, not a constitutional entitlement. The state has a legitimate interest in ensuring that people accused of serious crimes committed in Canada do not use parallel legal processes to delay, complicate, or evade domestic justice. Requiring criminal matters to be resolved first does not presume guilt. It simply establishes procedural order. Canada already applies this principle in other areas of law. People with pending criminal charges are routinely denied visas, held in immigration detention, restricted from travel, or delayed in citizenship or permanent residence applications. The law clearly distinguishes between adjudicating guilt and imposing administrative consequences while charges are outstanding. Allowing asylum claims to proceed while criminal cases are pending creates perverse incentives. It enables delay tactics, weakens prosecutions, complicates court jurisdiction, and invites organized abuse of refugee protections. A sequencing rule closes this loophole without denying anyone due process. Presumption of innocence protects against punishment without proof, not against accountability or procedural order. A person can be presumed innocent and still be required to answer criminal charges before asking the state for protection.
-ChatGPT
Exactly. Either we all have a right to due process in canada, citizens, PRs, TFWs or those here illegally. Or none of us have the right to due process.
But without the due process, how do you know which are 'real' claims and which to reject? Thats the whole point of the process, to sort out which is which.
simple: were you arrested in Canada, do you have a pending criminal case. if any of these are yes, (auto rejection) reapply when you've been cleared.
Except you run into that little thing known as a presumption of innocence. Charged is not the same as convicted, and to treat it the same would open the system to serious risk of abuse (picture people being charged based on the colour's of their skin as a way to fast-track 'getting rid of "those" people' and similar racist results). We have an unfortunate history of systemic racism in this country, and we absolutely need to maintain what checks and balances we have developed over time as a minimum.
So then you have to wait for a proper court hearing, at which point you have exactly the evidence of criminality required to reject the application.
Which is the current system.
If they are cleared of criminality, they don't have evidence do they? Perhaps, this is where I get an education because I see your thinking as plausible but I have to understand it.
Also there’s the whole situation of “what was your crime?”
Being gay is illegal in many places Being a female and seeking education an be a crime Escaping the marriage you were forced into at 8 years old is also a crime in a disappointing amount of places.
People have a right to be judged on what the actual crime is, not the fact it’s a crime in their place of origin
I’m gonna slippery slope fallacy this and say if you are willing to waive due process for one person, then you can waive it for anyone. The only proof I need for this case is the many times ICE has done this exact thing this year.
What are you talking about? Your reply confused me. Firstly, this is CANADA, we do not have ICE here. Second, they are in jail awaiting a court decision, so they have due process after the court has heard their case, then they can apply for refugee status IF (and ONLY IF) they are cleared of wrongdoing by the courts. Am I missing something?
Doesn't this mean that their asylum cases will be suspended until their criminal trials have been decided? Why would that cost so much money or hold up other claims?
If these criminals are allowed to do this they could stay in the country up to four more years. Ontario has 294,423 pending asylum claims as of last month. I also read they would be allowed full health care in that time and money if they wanted to pursue college. Insanity. I hope the gov finds a way to deport them asap.
This is false. Refugee claimants receive K-12 education. If they pursue post secondary education they need to apply for and be accepted to receive study permits and pay international student rates. If their refugee claim is accepted, they are eligible to receive loans and grants the same as any Canadian citizen.
They can receive fully paid scholarships through the UNHCR in Canada. https://myschoolvisa.com/fully-funded-scholarships-for-students-seeking-asylum/
Unfortunately, this is an abuse by criminals committing crime. True refugees suffer because of them.
This is absolutely embarrassing
Weren't some of these people linked to the Bishnoi Gang? Wasn't it registered as a terrorist organization? Shouldn't they be charged as terrorists?
deport them. they are criminals
If they've committed crimes while here, OUT! No refugee status.
Deny, easy enough. Its not like theyre trying to escape a war. To be charged with extorsion isnt something that just happens to people daily. Its embarassing its even a consideration
No. Why would any country accept criminals. When they are known.
What a non-surprise. Scammers trying to scam the system
This is such BS. If they don’t deny this , Canada will be a haven for crime. It already is but it will get a lot worse. We are such a soft country.
Can we just deport these pieces of trash please?
The NYT isn't defending their 'heroic' fight to avoid deportation? Maybe if they were also guilty of human trafficking and domestic abuse??
Did they apply for refugee status upon entry to Canada? No = claim denied. Found guilty of crime? Instant deportation without prejudice. When our tax dollars are spent to incarcerate someone in federal prison at a cost approximately $150000 per year, I have no sympathy.
We barely afford 1/10 of that to those on social assistance who are Canadians.
if criminal == true { if liveInCanada { getOutOfJailFree() } }
Seeking a status does not mean you will get it. The media knows that too, but will not write a headline that educates people on that.
The problem is that an obscure "refugee status board" is the one that gets to decide. That makes no sense at all. There should be NO application and NO decisions made within an "immigration" department on such situations. Left hand has no clue what the right hand is doing. Hugely different competencies and pay grade needed. Carney better use this as an example of an area where a Canadian "Doge" is needed. Else conservatives will rip through this one.
Obscure refugee status board??? What are you getting at here?