Chapter 0 - A Brief Primer on Guns in Fiction

The Fantasy Firearms conversation has been around for a lot longer then you might expect. Believe it or not, the origins of the argument actually originate in the real world. From the moment they became available to the common man, guns have signified a very start before and after. When the rules of engagement became less about having a trained and tested army of elite soldiers, and became more about supply lines and numbers.

Firearms in general are known as "The Great Equalizer", and for good reason. This is something that a lot of worldbuilders fail to understand, or lean to hard into to try and accommodate them.

Guns are NOT complicated.

You could reasonably teach someone how to operate most guns in a matter of minutes, and within hours they will understand how to reload, aim into the distance, and shoot without flinching. Compare this with all weapons before it, they are had a short range (most melee weapons) or take years to become proficient with (most ranged weapons). Guns solved that issue by turning collection of half useless farmers into a fighting force that could down 99% of the old world's fighters in a volley, and when it was 10 to 1 on the survivors, even your flee-bitten farmer army can make due.

All this to say, the solution to making firearms work in a fantasy setting is to take them seriously, but not treat them as an aberration either. They are a tool, and just as not every problem is a nail, not every situation needs a hammer.

Chapter 1 - What Makes Firearms Work?

Now that we have an understanding of what a gun actually is in a worldbuilding sense, lets actually tackle how they'd work in a fantasy setting.

The major concern most people have with guns is them becoming a cancer to the worldbuilding. The worry comes from the very justified understanding that a gun, especially modern ones, are extremely good in many situations. They aren't hard to use, they don't require that much training, and even under the worst circumstances they're extremely deadly.

This gives the impression that any situation that could involve one, so the worry goes, should involve one. Why train for years to use a sword when a gun takes hours? Why waste your money on expensive reagents when bullets are much cheaper and easier? Why engage in your fantasy world and all its cool power systems if Johannes Wick over there will do the job just as well and much quicker?

(Edit: To clarify what I meant here, I'm saying that given the same amount of training between something like a sword, a bow, and a gun, the gun takes the least effort to become deadly with. Bows aren't complicated either, but the skill floor on a bow is much higher then a gun. In the right hands both are deadly, but in the wrong hands a bow isn't as deadly as a gun)

This line of thinking is coming from three places, both of which aren't wrong, but incomplete: 1. Guns are The Apex of Human Warfare 2. "Guns are Overpowered" 3. Guns feel out of place

The first one is deceptive, because this line of thinking comes from our modern world with out modern sensibilities. While there are some exceptions (like the "Punk" genres, and Urban-Fantasy), the vast majority of fantasy is written in the style of "Medieval Stasis". Worlds where there are castles and kings, wizards and warlocks, ancient secrets and lost civilizations, the works. There is nothing wrong with this, but guns as a cultural object present some very post-industrial questions that many writers and worldbuilders are uncomfortable, or unwilling to address. However, this is what brings me to my first major tip.

You can make up the rules of guns in your world!

For example, gunpowder is a big component of your standard gun. Whether its in the bullet or a seperate package. This is a very easy concept to work around, lets say that gunpowder in your world exists, but its not the easiest to access, or your world's chemists are behind our own. What if instead your world had some kind of analogy to gunpowder, maybe some kind of crushed fire crystal, or some sap that grows in magical trees and explodes when it catches fire.

Just these two things rapidly changes the economy of guns without needing to do anything special with them. They don't need to be rare, or difficult to make, they just need to work within the confines of your world.

Another example would be to present them against magic and its users. Assuming you're not working with a strict set of laws for magic like a sanderson book, you can probably bet that as soon as guns become something worth noticing, that enterprising magic users will begin examining them, finding ways to use them or counter their use. It would only take one high profile mage being executed by round shot before even the most curmudgeonly of wizard in their tower to ignore it.

Most fantasy setting's that introduce guns treat them like such an unsolvable issue that they forget that we made them to begin with. If you can make something, you can counteract it too. This goes especially for worlds with magic that lets people do a wide variety of things. The first Anti-Gun spell that becomes accessible is going to be common practice for mages to learn, thus making guns what they always were, a tool to be used, not a bomb to be defused.

Last example, them not fitting the setting. This one is the most setting dependent, and out of everything its the best reason to not include firearms of any kind. Sometimes you don't want to consider the ramifications of firearms on your whimsical fantasy noble bright world. Vibes are as good a reason to include something as to not.

However the important point about that is that there is a distinct difference between saying "I don't think they would fit in my world" versus "I don't think they fit in fantasy". The first is an opinion, the second is a statement that can be argued with. This goes for basically anything, but always ask yourself "What does this add to my world?" when you want to develop it. If your struggles come from it clashing with everything else, then maybe reconsider. But if your struggles come from not being able to imagine it, that's unfortunately an issue with you, not the genre.

Chapter 2 - How do I make guns work? Specifically?

This is an extension what I was talking about in Chapter 1, but I want to help break some preconceived notions about what makes a firearm a "firearm", because in the modern day we have a very specific outlook on them.

The first question you need to ask yourself is what kind of world you've got. If you're doing a low magic, darker setting in the same vein as Game of Thrones or The Witcher, guns are going to be your natural evolution of combat eventually. These worlds are close enough to our own that given time and some luck they'll come to the same conclusions that we did.

However, other settings needn't necessarily follow the same rules. Many science fantasy settings move on from traditional metal slug based firearms and move on to laser weapons. There's no reason to believe that a world where people can open portals to other dimensions and summon demons would even consider working with black powder. Maybe instead your analogue for firearms is powered by demons and shoots fire, or powered by rock creatures that shoot lasers, or any other combination of things.

Firearms don't need to strictly be blunderbusses and flintlocks, you have complete control of the aesthetics of your world, flavor guns to work however you need. As long as your needs are met, they can be whatever.

The second question is how new guns are in your world. Here's the thing that a lot of Medieval Fantasy worldbuilders fail to consider. Years are LONG, and centuries and millennia are REALLY LONG. If you've had magic kicking around in some form for a thousand years, and you suddenly introduce firearms in the tail end of a thousand years of magical study, if those mages suddenly crumble and fall to a wooden stick that explodes, they were slacking on the job.

If guns are a relatively recent, but have still been around for a while, say 20-50 years, then its basically assured that at least several research groups will have put the time and energy into coming up with countermeasures and protocols for their involvement. Don't be naive and make them be "banned" or somehow looked down on. There is rarely a reason for such an outlook, instead its usually the creator wanting nothing to do with it.

Lastly, if your guns have existed for a long time, this is the one that is going to require the most work. If your setting has had some analogue for guns for anywhere in the range of 100-300 years or more, then all the guardrails that exist for other circumstances will apply, and you're going to run into the same issues that magic has when guns are new. In 200 years, our real world when from flintlocks to drone strikes. This is where I present a solution that not many people consider, just avoid having an industrial revolution, and keep your tech progression slow.

The real world went through a lot of shit from 1700 on, and that came more from a thousand years of boiling water suddenly overflowing into the industrial revolution. Your world likely didn't have the same set of circumstances, and if you introduced guns in a slower advancement scale, then they might become an entirely different kind of item altogether. Instead of being mass produced weapons of war, they could be artisan creations, powered by one of a kind ammunitions specialty made for a user. This way, they can be just as available as you need them to be, and special to boot.

Chapter 3 - Conclusion

Alright, I've spent a lot of time elaborating, contextualizing, and explaining how and why guns work. With this last section I just briefly want to touch on the actual act of worldbuilding and why guns area microcosm of something I wanted to discuss.

Many times, you'll have people asking if they can do something in their world. We've all seen it: * Can I put guns in my fantasy setting? * How do I justify people using swords when magic/guns/super-powers exist? * Would this astrological feature make sense? Is it realistic?

Far be it from me to tell people how to worldbuild, I've just got done spending 1500 words doing precisely that. But the concerning thing about questions of "Can I?" is that it implies that the person building their world thinks that there are hidden rules they don't know about. Like someone who "knows what they're doing" will come by and say "You did it all wrong, its terrible. Nobody likes this."

To be clear, those people exist, with the start difference being that they don't know what they're doing either. There are no rules but the ones you make and can justify to yourself. If you're telling a story there are some considerations to be made, but building a world does not have rules, it has guidelines.

To bring this around to firearms again, and to tie a little bow on all of this. Horace Mann is an early american politician who is known for many things, but his best known title is that of "The Father of American Education". I won't give you a big biography of the man, but he's the one that many people can thank for taking education from something granted to a few, to a right given to many. Among the body of his work, there is a quote that's very applicable to both topics I've pointed out today.

Education, then, beyond all other devices of human origin, is the great equalizer of the conditions of men,—the balance-wheel of the social machinery.

I think its not a coincidence that with time, firearms became associated with this term as well. Don't ask if you're allowed to do something just because you've never seen it done. The only limitation in your worldbuilding is what you can justify to yourself. If you want your wizard to shoot a gun, nothing is stopping you but yourself.

  • Important things to consider about firearms as "balancing" factors against alternatives such as bows or magic: - Firearms are expensive and difficult to produce, maintain, and supply. - Firearms are resource inefficient compared to many alternatives. Ammunition is expensive, complicated, and cannot be scavenged. - Firearms are far more prone to jams/malfunctions than alternatives. - Firearms, especially primitive ones, are cumbersome and lengthy to aim and reload in the heat of battle. - Early firearms were extremely inaccurate at distance compared to alternatives.

    Firearms can be very effective, but they are far from the ultra-overpowered paradigm-changer that they are often viewed as.

    I love the point you made about anti-gun magic as well!

    I'm glad you liked the anti-gun magic point, its something you rarely see in fantasy because people rarely think of the two as compatible.

    Your points about the balancing are also key to my argument. The factors that lead to guns becoming as widespread and usable as they are today are a direct result of the industrial gearshift towards manufactoring and assembly lines. In a society without the resources, knowledge, or desire to mass produce guns, they are a notably deadly curiosity.

    Good points as well, but many depends highly on how realistic your world is.

    Firearms started being more common place due to advances in the metallurgical technology. Without better smithing and iron refining process guns would have been stuck being extremely crude hand cannons. To get proper guns like musket and arquebusses you need steel, which means things like platemail would be available as well. Which get to my point, to defeat heavy armor like that you need longbows with draw strength in the 100+ lb of strength. Those longbows were extremely hard to produce, hard to maintain and the ammo extremely expensive. An arrow for a British longbow needed to be thick, well made and a solid piece of wood, as once it was fired the shaft had to endure extreme acceleration without shattering. Arrows were made be specialized artisans. While guns were maybe a bit more finicky, bows were very difficult to work with supply wise.

    Good points. I didn't consider the difficulties of producing/firing high draw strength bows for anti-armor purposes.

    I guess I should add that another factor for firearms is industrialization. Pre-industrial firearms were uniquely forged items. Meaning if one of the 10+ moving parts malfunctioned or broke, it would need to be remade for that specific firearm. There were no replacement pieces. And since the bores were all slightly different sizes, ammunition often needed to be made separately for each individual firearm.

    This ALL changed during the industrial revolution when assembly line production meant countless identical firearms with interchangeable pieces and ammo could be produced efficiently (of course helped by advancements in metallurgy).

    • Firearms are expensive and difficult to produce, maintain, and supply.
      • Not particularly. If you have advanced-enough metallurgy to be able to reliably manufacture gun barrels and lock-mechanisms, the guns themselves won't be particularly-expensive. Producing them in large-quantities will be difficult and expensive, but that goes for everything in a Pre-Industrial economy.
    • Firearms are resource inefficient compared to many alternatives. Ammunition is expensive, complicated, and cannot be scavenged.
      • ....Firearms are incredibly-resource efficient, actually. It is one of the main reasons they took over from archery, actually.
        • Blackpowder isn't particularly-difficult to produce: it is very simple chemistry. Producing it at scale is the hard part
        • Lead bullets are not hard to produce. They are infinitely easier to manufacture compared to arrows and bolts.
        • Lead bullets can quite easily be scavenged, actually. Just pry them out of the corpse and re-cast them.
    • Firearms are far more prone to jams/malfunctions than alternatives.
      • It's gonna be really funny when you learn that bows and arrows are just as susceptible to rain and moisture as guns are. Bows and bowstrings and arrows can quite-literally fall apart if they get wet. I know this because I make them, using period techniques and materials. Beeswax can only make things so water-resistant
      • With most muzzleloaders, if you gun doesn't go off, just cock the mechanism and try again. Its not the end of the world.
    • Firearms, especially primitive ones, are cumbersome and lengthy to aim and reload in the heat of battle
      • Again, not particularly, no.
    • Early firearms were extremely inaccurate at distance compared to alternatives.
      • Ahhhh.....no. Even a smoothbore musket is more accurate, at longer ranges, than a bow or a crossbow. History proves this out.

    a great list of the usual gun control nonsense

  • Nice write up

    And something i try to portray with the factions in my world that know about (and do have) guns are rather afraid of them spreading again.

    I even make it a point that a reason the Alliance Armies in the Fifth Age are so feared because they make use of massed ranged attacks, but with enchanted and advanced automatic crossbows. Seasoned with asymmetric warfare when most still think in sending peasant waves.

    Now why do they train every single one of their people in the use of crossbows?

    Because if the next apocalypse comes knocking they can just hand out the automatic assault rifles with munitions that make tanks and magical defenses irrelevant.

    edit a note is, the bad guys don't use guns because they are well aware of how much more advanced the stuff the Alliance has, and the Alliance will not bring out any to keep warfare at a level that does not involve strategic assets of either side.

    This was a topic I wanted to include but didn't have time for due to pacing. When stuff like magic exists, pretty much anything can be justified. Like you said, crossbows are also good because they were the proto-guns before and have many of the same advantages with similar and worse downsides.

    Go figure that magic and weapons of any kind synergize well together.

    Edit: Adjusted what I meant about crossbows

    Yeah, something even fantasy writers and gun advocates seem to miss, magic weapons are a common stable, enchantments always can do so much.

    Any strategist worth their salt WILL make use of it.

    So why wouldn't someone come up with ways to make munitions and guns excessively powerful?

    Many times theres enchantments that make swords hit with more weight and size? Now apply that to a bullet or crossbow bolt. Suddenly that 9mil hits with the mass and size of a ship side artillery piece.

    Magic gunpowder? More bang per grain, quite literally.

  • Just to be clear, the idea that it is significantly easier to train troops with guns than it is troops with bows is a myth. It’s popular to say guns became popular because you could train soldiers quickly, but the source for this is several generations of historians quoting each other by saying “it makes sense to me, so trust me bro”.

    There are quite a few primary sources that discuss the merits of guns vs bows, and not a single one ever claims that it’s easier to train a man to use a gun than it is to use other weapons. In fact, most make the opposite claim and it is the gun which is presented as the weapon which requires dedicated and careful training to be effective, and the bow is a weapon any man can use without effort.

    The reality is that guns really are simply better weapons than their predecessors. They replace bows and crossbows not because they’re easier to train, but because they’re better tools for the job.

    That said, I don’t disagree with your main point. Guns can be balanced in fantasy just fine, and there is nothing inherently world-breaking about including them as long as you do it thoughtfully.

    There was some nuance that I failed to mention, and in response to how I actually said it you're right. What I failed to mention about the gun vs bows argument wasn't that guns are easy and bows are hard specifically. Its more like what you said, they're simply a better tool for a similar job.

    The important factor I forgot was that the damage to difficulty ratio is different. I was being overly simplistic with my statement about it taking a day to teach gun use and that's on me. However its not wrong to say that given the same amount of training, a gun user can and will deal more damage then with a bow. In the right hands a bow is as deadly nearly beyond measure, but it does not take any extra effort on the gun users end to be more or less deadly. Give a bow to a master archer and a novice, and the novice and you'll see a night and day difference.

    Give a gun master and novice a gun, and assuming they both hit their target, the whole in their target will be the same size.

    I think that Oliver Cromwell and the New Model Army of 1645 would disagree with you regarding the ease to train a musketeer vs archer.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Model_Army

    And muskets of 1645 were very much less accurate than an arrow shot from a bow. But the new model army was all musketeers, pikemen and cavalry. No bows.

    Archery requires strength for each shot in a way that muskets do not. Many people recruited into the army (conscripted) simply did not have the strength and stamina to fire a bow for the duration of a battle.

    In England Muskets replaced bows essentially instantly and completely. British government archery regiments were all disbanded in 1645. King Charles still had a few archery regiments for his second civil war, but that ended quickly and decisively with King Charles beheading.

    Part of the reason gunners were so difficult to train relative to archers is because they had to be trained together, in a group, and in an environment with access to expert tuition and the resources needed for the use of their weapons. They had to be drilled, repeatedly in the use of their weapons, and this drill had to occur in groups.

    Which meant a state sponsored military machine of some kind…like a standing professional army, such as the new model army. The new model army was exactly the environment needed to support the mass training of firearm troops. In the 16th century, the English government had abandoned plans to train firearm troops specifically because rot was too expensive, and placed to heavy a demand on the state.

    Despite which, the firearm had already conclusively replaced the bow in England by the time the new model army was formed. The gun was simply a better weapon, and the only reason the bow hung around as long as it did in England was because it was already tied up in ideas of English national identity.

    Regardless, as nice as Wikipedia is, here are some of the opinions of actual soldiers who lived through the debate about guns and bows

    “The fierie shot, either on horseback, or foote, being not in hands of the skilfull, may do unto themselves more hurt then good: wherefore the same is often to be practised, that men may grow perfect and skilfull therein.”

    • ⁠Robert Barret, The Theorike and Practike of Moderne Warre

    Not so, they may serve yet to many purposes. For all those weapons… [pikes, calivers and muskets], shall serve but for your trayned men: and your bills and bowes, which have every man, or most men can handle, shall, (if neede require) be put in place of service befitting them weapons.

    • ⁠Robert Barret, The Theorike and Practike of Moderne Warre

    “If half the pioneers had pikes and the other half bows, they might do something beside digging, for ‘they be natural weapons and therefore need not teaching’

    • ⁠Captain Yorke

    “the musquet, as all fierie weapons, is dangerous to them who are Unskilfull, for an unexpert man may spoile himselfe and many about him, which inconvenient is not subject to the Bow.”

    • ⁠Thomas Kellie (who was actually a proponent of the bow over the gun)

    If you’re curious, here is a link to an answer I have over on r/askhistorians on the subject. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/cyiFaCNzG7

    History speaks for itself.

    England abandoned the bow during the English Civil war and never looked back. With any change there will be people who will grouse and complain. Congratulations on digging up so many contemporary complainers.

    Most of these men were writing a generation or two before the English civil war, when the bow was already an obsolete weapon. Other contemporary accounts make it clear that the bow was by far an inferior weapon to the gun in every category except its rate of fire, which was not as great an advantage as it’s made out to be to begin with.

    The bow had been abandoned before the English civil war in any meaningful context. It was just that there was a generation of men determined to try and bring it back in the lead up to the civil war, largely because they were mistakenly convinced it was a better weapon than it was and because it was cheap.

    I’m also not sure why you think these guys are complaining. These are professions militray men writing books in the conduct of war. They are citing the advantage of the gun over the bow, not whining about a change they disagree with.

    You know I'd like to build off of what you wrote, which I generally agree with.

    So I read somewhere and have heard it stated multiple times that the other reason is simply because of how long it takes to properly train a person to use a bow strengthwise. And that distinction is important. It was the strength required to pull back the string on a proper warbow.

    My understanding, at least in regards to the English Longbow, is that an archer generally had to train from early childhood onwards to have enough strength in the arms and chest to use the longbow properly. So the difference between losing a person with a firearm versus losing a person with a bow, the asset lost value is heavily weighted towards losing the bow. Meaning that it was much more expensive to lose the person with the bow versus the gun because of the amount of time that went into years of training.

    And thereby leading the eventual transition to firearms once avaliable leading to faster mustering times for armies.

    You’re touching on yet another myth about the longbow, namely that it was a weapon that was exceptionally difficult to use.

    There is a complex set of nested myths surrounding the longbow, which have been built by generations of English historians and commentators who were interested in building a national narrative centered on the power of the longbow. It’s an honorable company, and includes the likes of Shakespeare and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, but the picture of history they paint is deeply flawed for a variety of reasons. Most notably became the idea their entire theory is based on, the idea that the English warbow is some super special mega-weapon, is wrong.

    To support their idea of the battle winning archers they created a series of nested myths to justify his presumed superiority, and explain why no one else ever tried to copy the magic super soldier. One of them is that the longbow must have been an extremely difficult weapon to learn to use, requiring years of careful dedicated practice from childhood. Their evidence for this was largely “it makes sense to me”, but such is the prevalence of the myth that certain prices of historical evidence have been twisted or misinterpreted in order to support their conclusion.

    I go into the whole thing in more detail in this thread in r/askhistorians if you’re interested https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/gALPh6LgRt

    For now, suffice it to say that the idea of the longbows rigorous training demands is massively overstated. It’s a weapon that takes strength, but strength was not in short supply in the medieval world. It takes skill to master, but it doesn’t take skill to use. Modern experiences with historical bows show that even an untrained modern man can achieve competency with a high draw weight warbow in a few months.

    What I was referring to was the physical strength. I'm not so worried about the actual training but the physicality of it.

  • The major problem I have with discussions of introducing guns in fantasy is that there are several bad takes regarding the history of firearms.

    You state that guns were easy to use, but the existing sources actually say the opposite: bowmen were actually the ones that were easy to train. Turns out, in the age of pre-industrialization you can't afford to just randomly give out guns to untrained farmers given their expensive equipment and lack of industry. This brings to the other point that it turned "half useless farmers into a fighting force." If you look at the Early Modern Period most gunmen weren't poor farmers, but the "elite" and trained soldiers that spent much time in drilling being lead by knights or samurai (who were by the way, the biggest lovers of guns when they came about). Guns didn't immediately replace every melee weapon overnight given the expensive nature of the equipment and lack of industrialization.

    It's also highly unlikely average people of the time would be even getting guns and the gunpowder at all considering they weren't cheap and the nobility was certainly aware of dangers of peasants getting access to them which is why there were often restrictions of civilians getting firearms not mentioning to have a steady supply of good gunpowder if you wanted to use it.

    Then you have the ridiculous argument that bows/crossbows outranged early firearms when the historical accounts state the opposite.

    That being said, I do agree there should be more representation of firearms in fantasy and some of your points like lack of tech progression and anti-gun magic can really develop unique circumstances on how combat and development works in that setting.

    You're correct that I was mistaken about the ease of training portion, though as I explained in another comment I wasn't meaning just in the sense that one was easy and the other was hard. Though I can completely understand that my explaination was incorrect as stated, rather I meant that given the same training, you'll have a better gunner compared to an archer.

    It takes relatively little "training" to make a gunner shoot a man dead from a dozen yards, but it can take some considerable training and experience for an archer to have the strength to both draw the bow and hit their target, let alone doing so in combat.

    >The major problem I have with discussions of introducing guns in fantasy is that there are several bad takes regarding the history of firearms.

    Whenever people post this topic, r/badhistory has a goddamn field day, for this exact reason

  • My fantasy world focuses on humans colonizing a continent and finding out many many years later fantasy races live there they just avoided the peninsula they settled on for reasons. Eventually after they have begun attacking the humans reinforcements arrive form the homeland in the fashion of gunpowder weapons. One of the new resources they were exporting home was gunpowder or a substitute for it. Guns get introduced to this fantasy world when a fleet of now cannon carrying ships arrive with companies of freshly trained musket troops ready to test this new weapon out

  • If anyone wants some early anti gun tech look at Samurai. They made Taketaba, a bamboo mat wall to block shots. There is even documentation of a buckler used to deflect bullets, Tadate.

  • In the old Smurfs cartoon, yes the one from the 1980s, there was a wizard named Balthazar who had a device he called "The Wand of the Future". It was an arquebus.

    Guns can exist in a fantasy setting, and if you add in crafty gnomes, dwarven master smiths, alchemy, and any one of a number of fantasy tropes, there will be counters and armor that are proof against them.

    There is an anime called How a Realist Hero Rebuilt the Kingdom that tackled this very issue. Now world had artillery, but instead of using powder to launch cannon balls, it used magic. Gun crews used magic as the force that sent the ammo down barrel. The cannons were used to aim the shots, and to make the distances that the balls could fly longer. Enhancing magic and armor kept guns from coming into use.

    In the anime, That Time I got Reincarnated as a Slime, one of the other Demon Lords told the main character if his country got to advanced, and army of angels would show up to destroy it. A faction talked about having guns, but keeping them secret.

  • To elaborate on the magic part

    Artificers exist and are an amazing example of "fantasy guns"

    They are magic users who take firearms and thrust them to their extreme to a point its a goddamn stereotype in TTRPG spaces.

    And secondly, if wizards are known for anything its being incredibly eccentric. If a wizard can wear a pointy hat and a robe covered in stars they can also wear a wide brimmed hat and pack a Colt in place of a traditional fancy wand.

  • I like this.

    I like the point you made with medieval stasis. Medieval stasis is much easier to manage than the inevitably rapid change brought about by firearms, particularly in a fantasy setting.

    Your world doesn't HAVE to go through those changes. Maybe the wizards found an easy counter to it (e.g. in The Powder Mage, Sorcerers are still viable because they blend in with normal troops, and can make walls of air to resist bullets.) Maybe the people aren't angry enough to rise up in rebellion. (Mistborn era 2 spoilers In Mistborn Era 2, the people of Elendel are pretty happy with their life, so they aren't rising up. The outer cities are close to rebellion, but it is handled diplomatically )

  • As someone with experience with both 'primitive' bows and 'primitive' firearms, it is genuinely fucking funny how so many people here are so goddamn confident in what they are saying, when if you know how the above weapons work, they don't know what they are talking about

  • The biggest thing i'll even have to bolden and screech here remains:

    The average fantasy nerd understands nothing of logistics and technology does not work in linear powerscaling

    First of all, guns ARE the expensive reagents and relatively complex construction process of the era even if they are fundamentally just explosion-proppeled crossbows. This means you need a flowing, vibrant and active INDUSTRY to make them in numbers, and highly skilled craftsmen to build them in boutique small custom productions if your world is still pre-industrial.

    The crossbow comparison is crucial because everything you spoke of rifles was too spoken about IRL crossbows: they're simple mechanical assistants to let peasants outweight their skill level, except through elastic tension instead of chemical propellents. Tech tree nerds all too frequently fetichise this as thus guns "doing the same but much stronger" when reality is just that... Bullets occupy a lot less space. Twenty virotes are fairly large box placed by your side of fat wooden tubes with metal tips - twenty lead beads are a skinsack tied to your belt and a second one for the black powder. THAT is the revolution that guns brought, easier times carrying many shots per unit, not a handcannon excalibur.

  • or take years to become proficient with

    likethrowing spears and Xbows

    Guns solved that issue by turning collection of half useless farmers into a fighting force

    youmean the guys with spears, Pikes, , bows before guns

    Why train for years to use a sword when a gun takes hours?

    why did we use swords in warfare up to WWI

    but its not the easiest to access,

    the most unbelievable variant of gun control i came around

    gunpowder is very easy to make

    btw how long did we need to go from handgonne to flintlock

    how effective are guns if a lightning bolt, fireball etc hits the gun the user , the black powder

  • The truth is, it's not difficult to introduce firearms into a medieval fantasy setting. Firearms were already in use in the Middle Ages, from the 13th century onwards, but they didn't immediately replace swords and crossbows. In fact, it took almost two centuries for several reasons: They were terribly inaccurate and had a very short range. They couldn't kill anything more than 50 meters away. Ironically, crossbows and longbows were still better in terms of range. They took a long time to reload manually, so without support, any force not wiped out in the first wave would easily overwhelm the arquebusiers. The gunpowder, being exposed and outside of a cartridge, was vulnerable to rain or humidity. Plate armor could withstand arquebus bullets because these were round lead balls with smoothbore barrels. They were expensive and only very wealthy kingdoms or mercenaries could afford them. All these limitations already existed in real life. So yes, a sorcerer throwing fireballs or even an archer is still better in this context than most arquebusiers. Want to see how you can introduce them? Look at Warhammer Fantasy; there are firearms there (used by the Empire, the Dwarfs, the Coast of Vampires, the Skaven), and that doesn't break the balance of power.

    >They were terribly inaccurate and had a very short range. They couldn't kill anything more than 50 meters away. Ironically, crossbows and longbows were still better in terms of range. 

    No, bows and crossbows do not have longer effective ranges than firearms, even early firearms.

    "In the 1592 invasion, everything was swept away. Within a fortnight or a month the cities and fortresses were lost, and everything in the eight directions had crumbled. Although it was [partly] due to there having been a century of peace and the people not being familiar with warfare that this happened, it was really because the Japanese had the use of muskets that could reach beyond several hundred paces, that always pierced what they struck, that came like the wind and the hail, and with which bows and arrows could not compare.\125])"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imjin\War#Firearms)

    And in that above example, they are talking about smoothbore matchlock harquebuses, arguably the "earliest" firearm someone would still recognize as such. And do note the Imjin War took place in the 1500s