It's the biggest Portuguese language city outside Brazil. Luanda has a population close to the entirety of Portugal. I think it's still pretty impressive.
One of them is Equatorial Guinea which doesn’t actually speak Portuguese but is a member anyway. Spanish is spoken there and is the official language.
Macao could be argued despite not being a member. Portuguese is an official language, and the legal system is in Portuguese. It’s not widely spoken though, and Macao isn’t an independent country either.
There are just 8 sovereign Lusophone countries, really, and four of them are pretty small. If we only count those where the majority are native speakers, though, it’s 2 or 4, depending on how you count Portuguese-based creoles. But then Angola wouldn’t be included.
Sounds like it's used as a lingua franca, so the 55% who primarily use a native language still speak at least some Portuguese to communicate with others outside their local group.
Of course, most of the native languages in Angola are Bantu languages (like how Portuguese is a Romance language), so I imagine there's some mutual intelligibility and/or sharing between them — though I'm not an expert on this, someone else may know more.
Of course, most of the native languages in Angola are Bantu languages (like how Portuguese is a Romance language), so I imagine there's some mutual intelligibility between them
Thats like comparing yaktian with turkish because both are turkic languages
I mean, between English, French, and college courses in Latin, I can decently read texts in, say, Spanish, Portuguese, or Italian. I don't know how to speak them well, but I know a few words and phrases here and there. I'd probably pick up a ton more if my neighbors an hour north spoke Italian, those to the east spoke Portuguese, and in the west Spanish, and we all had frequent contact with each other.
Given the speakers of the various languages in Angola have been in contact with each other, there may be some sharing and mutual awareness between them, even if they're not otherwise mutually intelligible. But again, like I said I'm not an expert on the distribution and variety of languages in that part of the world — I defer to others on that.
Much more than when they were a colony, and it’s the same case for most African nations. During colonial times the cities were relatively small, and the only people who learned the colonists language were urbanites and aspiring middle managers. Then suddenly those few schools to train colonial administrators become the basis for their entire education system, and all the new elites already spoke one language in common. Especially as most Africa countries have over a dozen native languages, using the old colonial language is an impartial choice for government and national communication.
That depends a lot on how you define indigenous language. Arabic was introduced to Northern Africa by conquest, same as English or French or Portuguese in other countries. The indigenous languages of Morocco and Algeria for instance would be Amazigh / Kabyle, and they're very far from being a majority.
Swahili is somewhat indigenous to the Kenya/Tanzania coast it comes from, but isn't for the majority of Kenya's population that have adopted it - most have their own primary mother language based on their ethnicity, with Swahili being secondary or even tertiary after English.
But no one lives on Brasília. It was built to be the national capital in the late 50s on a sparsely populated region to try to bring development to it. It didn't really work. People went there for work, sure. But now there's this huge city away from everything in the middle nowhere
Incorrect. You're mixing city limits and metro area population
12 million people live in the municipality of São Paulo, 21 million in the whole metro area. Luana municipality has a population of 2.5 million, while the metro area is home to 9 million, according to Wikipedia
No, it’s expensive. And poor. Angola is a very poor country, like most of Africa, so rich (let alone super rich) would be… unexpected to say the least. This is a poor country emergent from a horrific civil war, not Luxembourg.
"Luanda and its metropolitan area is the most populous Portuguese-speaking national capital in the world and the most populous Lusophone city outside Brazil."
So it is both:
1) Most populous Portuguese-speaking national capital
2) Most populous Portuguese-speaking city outside Brazil
Saying "largest Portuguese-speaking capital outside Brazil" is so needlessly imprecise and incorrect when the Wiki itself had the actual fact right there in the first graph.
“World’s largest Portuguese-speaking capital outside of Brazil” holy qualifiers. How many Portuguese-speaking capitals outside of Brazil are there? 4?
It's the biggest Portuguese language city outside Brazil. Luanda has a population close to the entirety of Portugal. I think it's still pretty impressive.
Actually, Brasilia has around 3 million people, so Luanda would be the largest Portuguese speaking capital city in the world?
Guessing they are including Brazilian state capitals.
Or didn’t put much thought into it
There are 9 countries in the Community of Portuguese Language Countries, 8 of which have capitals outside Brazil.
One of them is Equatorial Guinea which doesn’t actually speak Portuguese but is a member anyway. Spanish is spoken there and is the official language.
Macao could be argued despite not being a member. Portuguese is an official language, and the legal system is in Portuguese. It’s not widely spoken though, and Macao isn’t an independent country either.
There are just 8 sovereign Lusophone countries, really, and four of them are pretty small. If we only count those where the majority are native speakers, though, it’s 2 or 4, depending on how you count Portuguese-based creoles. But then Angola wouldn’t be included.
You can bet Paris and Luxembourg city are on the list.
This is like new York being the 2nd or 3rd city for some countries like the Dominican Republic.
Brazil itself accounts for like 80% of the entirety of the Lusosphere so while badly phrased this isn't that a weird a fact lmao
Do Angolans still use Portuguese in casual conversation?
Latest census (2024) states 45% of Angolans speak primarily Portuguese, the other 55% speak about 10 minority native languages.
So yea for sure it’s used everyday.
I imagine it's probably a lot higher in the multi ethnic capital city too
Sounds like it's used as a lingua franca, so the 55% who primarily use a native language still speak at least some Portuguese to communicate with others outside their local group.
Of course, most of the native languages in Angola are Bantu languages (like how Portuguese is a Romance language), so I imagine there's some mutual intelligibility and/or sharing between them — though I'm not an expert on this, someone else may know more.
Thats like comparing yaktian with turkish because both are turkic languages
I mean, between English, French, and college courses in Latin, I can decently read texts in, say, Spanish, Portuguese, or Italian. I don't know how to speak them well, but I know a few words and phrases here and there. I'd probably pick up a ton more if my neighbors an hour north spoke Italian, those to the east spoke Portuguese, and in the west Spanish, and we all had frequent contact with each other.
Given the speakers of the various languages in Angola have been in contact with each other, there may be some sharing and mutual awareness between them, even if they're not otherwise mutually intelligible. But again, like I said I'm not an expert on the distribution and variety of languages in that part of the world — I defer to others on that.
There are really dozens but most are tiny
If anything the number that do is growing steadily.
Much more than when they were a colony, and it’s the same case for most African nations. During colonial times the cities were relatively small, and the only people who learned the colonists language were urbanites and aspiring middle managers. Then suddenly those few schools to train colonial administrators become the basis for their entire education system, and all the new elites already spoke one language in common. Especially as most Africa countries have over a dozen native languages, using the old colonial language is an impartial choice for government and national communication.
It alongside cape verde and sao tome are the only african countries that dont have majority indegenious speakers
Wow, I learn something new every day.
That depends a lot on how you define indigenous language. Arabic was introduced to Northern Africa by conquest, same as English or French or Portuguese in other countries. The indigenous languages of Morocco and Algeria for instance would be Amazigh / Kabyle, and they're very far from being a majority.
Swahili is somewhat indigenous to the Kenya/Tanzania coast it comes from, but isn't for the majority of Kenya's population that have adopted it - most have their own primary mother language based on their ethnicity, with Swahili being secondary or even tertiary after English.
This led me down the rabbit hole learning about Cabinda. TIL.
Why say outside of Brazil when it’s bigger than Brazil’s capital as well.
12 million in San Paulo Brazil
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/São_Paulo
That's not a national capital
They never said national capital, just capital.
It would be odd to assume they’re including subnational capitals here.
not that odd...
It's not the right numbers, either lol
But no one lives on Brasília. It was built to be the national capital in the late 50s on a sparsely populated region to try to bring development to it. It didn't really work. People went there for work, sure. But now there's this huge city away from everything in the middle nowhere
Incorrect. You're mixing city limits and metro area population
12 million people live in the municipality of São Paulo, 21 million in the whole metro area. Luana municipality has a population of 2.5 million, while the metro area is home to 9 million, according to Wikipedia
Angolan writer Ondjaki lives in Luanda.
Strange that Portugal as a whole, barely ekes above Luanda in total population.
Isn't Luanda also super rich?
It has a super high cost of living and has a small class of elites that get the majority of their oil wealth
no
No, but it is super expensive for expats to maintain a normal standard of living.
sorry lol what i meant to say was super expensive to live in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f66GfsKPTUg
No, it’s expensive. And poor. Angola is a very poor country, like most of Africa, so rich (let alone super rich) would be… unexpected to say the least. This is a poor country emergent from a horrific civil war, not Luxembourg.
"Luanda and its metropolitan area is the most populous Portuguese-speaking national capital in the world and the most populous Lusophone city outside Brazil."
So it is both:
1) Most populous Portuguese-speaking national capital 2) Most populous Portuguese-speaking city outside Brazil
Saying "largest Portuguese-speaking capital outside Brazil" is so needlessly imprecise and incorrect when the Wiki itself had the actual fact right there in the first graph.