I am about to graduate fellowship with a job lined up at my current institution. I currently like the job as a fellow and believe it will be my long term job, and it’s in the city that I want to stay in (plus I’m rads so there’s always option of remote I guess). We want to buy a house right now and there are two we are looking at. One is a more affordable house that works for us, but it’s not my wife’s dream house. Another is her dream house with water view in a neighborhood which she wants to move into eventually no matter what, but cost twice as much and I would not even be able to get the mortgage without a physician loan that I’m not qualified for until two month prior starting attendinghood, and will probably eat into ~35% of my take home pay. The only reason why I’m considering the more expensive house is because it recently got a significant (~ 25%) price of reduction and I figure I wouldn’t have to pay closing cost and other fees twice if I just buy it now. Should I just forget about it and just go for the cheaper one?
If it just got discounted 25% it’s because no one wants it and you should prob negotiate even further down, while looking for red flags.
There is no reason to buy any house at your current stage. Continue renting for a year or two, then purchase
It’s honestly horrifying how many people are telling you to buy the nicer house or any house. Yikes
It depends on the area. I wish I’d bought since I’m in a super competitive housing market. Also, rads income jump is pretty high, especially with the current market and massive rad shortages.
Hindsight is 20/20. That doesn’t mean one should buy a house and they def shouldn’t bank on continued appreciation
If you’re in metro/coastal CA, it’d be an almost certain appreciation over time. Not hindsight, just limited supply and demand issues.
Ok then why did the house get cut 25% it’s almost certainly not in a desirable area or something is wrong with it. This does not happen in competitive locales
That’s fair. In that case, he shouldn’t buy it.
The only reason to feel pressure to buy for you right now should be children/school district. You don't need to be in a good area with good schools until your oldest is about to start kindergarten. Until then, you can live in a rented apartment pretty much anywhere and bank all that extra dough for your future home purchase. Buying a home before that does not make sense unless it's a crazy cheap deal
There’s absolutely zero reason to buy the cheaper house, this is completely a buy vs rent question. If this is where you’re sure you’re staying long term then a 35% of take home is not at all an egregious expense.
You should rent until at least a year into the new job as an attending. This makes sure you like the job and they like you in your new role. Also this will give you more opportunities to buy when the time is right (rates go down, you learn more about the neighborhood you actually really want to live in, etc.) you don’t mention children yet, so no real need to speed run life.
Underrated advice. Buy vs rent is tricky at baseline. But starting a new job, first real job is a challenge. Adjusting to new finances etc all need a cautious approach.
There are so many variables and keeping your wife happy who wants a water view should be balanced with a rental at first.
Edit: It feels like a lot of the “it’ll be tight but you’ll fit into the payments later” advice is advocating for the golden handcuffs. Why do that to yourself.
Just remember, a house, contrary to what people usually say, is not an investment. An expensive house will require higher tax payments, maintenance, utilities. Go for the cheaper one. It’s always better to go for the cheaper one, have less stress, way more freedom and the ability to retire earlier.
waterfront property already? what's the cost gonna be compared to your pay? Do you have student loan debt? Other debt?
Can you rent it for 6 or 12 months until your finances get better, then buy it?
Thing is, there is always a better house somewhere, on a better street, at a better price. When house shopping, never "fall in love" with a house.
I had similar circumstances, but bought a smaller house to make sure I liked where I was at, then I rented that out and bought a larger home (essentially a dream home) like 16ish months later--both using physician loans.
Price wise it’s fine for your take home
Other factors are: Do you have a ton of loans too?
Are you sure you will be staying in this job long term
Get the nice one if 35% of take home is yours alone. If it includes wife working then it depends on what she does. Your salary will slowly grow and eventually it wont be 35% take home. But 35% is a lot of it depends on two incomes that are not very steady.
That being said there is something called the hedonic treadmill where you will enjoy things for only so much time before it feels normal. So getting that house down the line may make more sense but of course it probably wont be there or for that price.
Rates are not awful right now so not a bad time to lock in the rate no mater which directi9n you choose.
Stay cheap. Pay off the cheap one early. Pay off your student loans ASAP. Max out your 403b or 401k. Max out your HSA. Don't buy new vehicles. Don't go on lavish trips while you're paying these down. Once they're paid off invest, enjoy, live.
Do this and rent > buy the big house. Don’t buy the small house that you’ll need to unload in a few years.
Unloading a house? I mean he'll have options. Rent it out. Sell it for the equity. I've never heard it put as unloading like it's a depreciating asset.
You must not have heard of the 2008 financial crisis. You can’t predict when the next housing bust will be, it could be in 4 years when OP is looking to unload.
Sure, but it very well might depreciate depending on their timeline.
If I listened to your advice when I bought my home 4 years ago I would have missed out on 200k of appreciation. The conventional wisdom is not always correct.
Go for it
Yes
Get the nice one. You will not regret it.
It’s never just the house cost. Run numbers on all the new furnishings, utilities, taxes, possibly appliances, and repairs on the big house. It’s going to take a lot more the first year(s) than you think. Just rent for at least a year. There are always more houses later
Nice one
If the small house will definitely be a very temporary stepping stone, it will be much better to just get the bigger one now if you can swing it (35% of take home is fine)
Buy the house, you gonna move there anyway, avoid two moves and transaction costs, 35% is not too bad
As a fellowship trained radiologist I think it’s fair to presume you’d largely employable now and into the future (😉), which makes a mortgage, even if it’s somewhat larger than you want at this point, relatively a safe prospect. Some other factors to consider are that, in most locales with desirable lakefront properties, these are not typically plentiful in supply; sometimes the demand makes striking when the iron’s hot reasonable if not mandatory. Further, most often a higher end home purchase isn’t a consumable or depreciating asset, so another fallback is if this turns out not the ideal choice you simply sell and learn a lesson. Last, I’d put all due diligence into sorting out why there’d be a 25% drop in asking price. Look at comparables but that’s near red flag territory.
I write this as someone at/near retirement age in the midst of building a lake home. We didn’t opt for this out of fellowship, but not for financial reasons. Sometimes it can make sense, and this might be one of those times. Good luck.
It would be nice to see actual numbers to crunch but I say go for the dream house and be done with it. It'll only get more expensive if you wait, but it'll get "cheaper" over time if you buy now.
Yes
Go for the nice one. Your finances will catch up, and you won’t have regret if your wife is truly happy long term.
Housing market about to correct downward, so rent for next 2-3 years. There will be another house in the same neighborhood with water views for less than what they are selling for now and you will be in a much more stable position financially whether prices come down or continue upward (unlikely as at all time USA high compared with median incomes)
Also, home ownership is always and everywhere a bad financial decision, so you want to "minimize the damage", which should always be your mantra when buying personal residential real estate. Anyone who thinks or says differently is too cowardly to do the math and compare with renting and investing the difference.
Your spouse wants to "own" so that's a good enough reason to buy a house, but it is the same thing as lighting your money on fire in the driveway. :) But happiness in family is > money.
Buy the nice house now. It'll be a stretch for you at first, but financially you'll grow into it and you'll be content there longer (hopefully).
How would you be able to get the loan? Wouldn’t someone else just be able to buy the house before the attending job?
As a fellow a significant number of my attendings were unhappy. It was a good place to train. Not so good as an attending.
Check the noncompete clause of your attending contract. The institution I trained at was infamous for enforcing it against attendings that left for other jobs in the city.
It really just depends if you’re in a desirable or HCOL area where home prices are pretty recession proof and continue to rise because of limited supply with constant demand (ie metro/coastal CA), then buy the bigger house. I’m in a situation where I bought the starter house and prices shot up so much that I can’t afford my forever dream home. If that’s not the case and you’re not in a super competitive housing market area, don’t buy the big house. Rads will be making solid money for several years with an ever worsening shortage and an incredible job market for the near future (as long as you don’t burn out, which many rads are burning out under the high volume and not enough rads). So would wait to earn and then buy the house.
Buy the cheaper one for sure.
Think about things like repairs for such a house. Also student loan payments, insurances, daycare/babysitting costs, later academic enrichment. I would strongly consider renting for now. The housing market prices are going down, not up. You don't want to be upside down in a home that size.
Without numbers it’s hard to say how irresponsible this is. If you don’t have kids there’s not really a rush to get a house. I’d strongly consider renting for your first attending year so it makes the reach house more affordable. WCI mantra is live like a resident until your loans are paid off which I think is good advice to stall lifestyle inflation for a few years to build good habits and max retirement when it’s most beneficial.
Price wise, you can do it for the bigger one. Live life a bit. However, I'm going to give you the typical, most docs don't stay long at their first job, I am so glad I rented right out of training.
No need to rush, real estates headed straight into the gutter right now. I'm willing to bet even nicer options pop up in a few months thats are cheaper than the fancy house.
If I were you I would save money first and rent before committing to something that big, assuming you have student loans.
What's the reason for the big price reduction? Are you sure that's as low as it will go? You don't want to left holding the proverbial bag.
If it were me I'd buy the smaller house or rent a bigger house until I was established and comfortable. You didn't mention children or if they are in your near future, but you obviously need to plan for that case.
Good luck!
The compromise is finding a dream home that's perfect for your situation RIGHT NOW and RENT IT.
Life’s too short, my dude. Would you rather love your home where your family is gonna grow up or have a couple extra bucks in your bank account? I did a similar thing and can count on zero hands the number of times I’ve regretted it. I’ve always said if you’re gonna pick one thing to splurge on, it ought to be the house where you’re gonna spend your life living and raising your family.
Every new doctor who has bought a house has wished they went for it and bought a bigger or nicer one. Cause in all likelihood you have more money later but housing prices just keeps rising and eventually even docs get priced out
Need more information. What are your loans? How much cash do you have on hand? Does your wife work? What other debt?
If you have $500k in loans and $5k in the bank, the answer is a definite no. If you have no loans, no other debt, dual income and an emergency fund - maybe.
Keep in mind furnishing the house, upgrades, etc will be a lot of money. We bought a starter and then upgraded. It was the right choice for us. Bigger house means bigger maintenance. It’s not just the mortgage as others mentioned.
Rent to own option is interesting if they’d consider it.
Buying the more expensive house is cheaper than a divorce. If your wife is gonna force you to move there anyway go for it.
For what you’re describing, I would say just rent until you can be in a more comfortable and stable position to buy the dream house. My wife and I are in the midst of the renting until we can buy, and while we’re very eager to own a forever home, we wouldn’t want to incur the interpersonal stress of a tight financial situation.
35 percent of take home is doable. I’d be a little hesitant to buy right out of training. You may not like the job and feel stuck
You'll never know which is the right decision until you make it, so try to get as much information as possible first.
I'd entertain both options and decide once you get to the point where you can get the physician loan. This gives you 2 months to let the decision simmer, because even if you wanted it, you can't put an offer on the 35% house right now.
How likely is your salary to go up (RVU, bonus, etc)? Ask your new colleagues or future director. If in 5 yrs you think the bigger house will be 20% of your salary, you may think differently.
You don't get into it in the post, but why is this home important to your spouse? Not all financial decisions need to be rational but it is worth exploring this deeply with your partner. There may be a deeper reason they want to live there and that could make the discussion very worthwhile. It could create a sense of shared goal too -- like we can't afford it now, so lets rent 2-5 years, and save so really can afford it when I meet X salary threshold...
In either event, don't let getting the 35% house be the start of big lifestyle creep.
Moonlight/ work extras shifts and buy the more expensive house
Your title says it all. Seems like YOU think it's a bad call. Tell your wife that. This is more of a relationship and personal finance question.
There’s a ton of wisdom to the advice of keep renting until you’re sure you like the job. Even if this is your home institution, working there as a fellow is extremely different than as an attending. You’ll be shocked by how much politics and drama you weren’t privy to.
When I was a fellow, one of our satellite rotation sites seemed like the dream job we all wanted. Friendly attendings, worked hard, manageable workload, work life balance. They had an opening the year after I graduated, and my buddy got the job. Turns out they were very dysfunctional behind closed doors. They sniped at each other, gamed the system to shift their workload on others, and played favorites among the junior attendings. My friend left after a year. None of us would have guessed this based on our extensive time there
You won’t get a full look under the hood until you’re an attending for a while. Be cautious before committing 35% of your income this early.
Time management for doctors. Www.countryquack.com
Buy the house your wife LOVES! They have physician loans for a reason.
Going to have kids? May regret the close proximity to water