I am in southern California, at a house built over an orange grove in the 1950s in what is now built up city with city water/sewer None of the maps that came with the property show anything. I was digging to plant a tree in my backyard and about 12-18" down hit concrete. I decided to dig around to see how big it was and it's about 3-4 feet diameter, with a smooth clean finish like a sidewalk. Edges have a slight bevel then go straight down. Next to it, I started uncovering another , but maybe 1" higher and seems to have a much rougher finish.
I'd previously found a septic tank with more normal lid around 15' to 20' to the left from the orientation of the 3rd photo which is why I'm asking - wouldn't expect another on this lot. There's also an at least 50 year old orange tree between the two.
I see no marks where handles or steel rods or anything would be, no stamps, and have dug a lot near this area never hitting anything.
I normally would be fine covering it up and pretending it's not there, but since I plan to die in this house, and hopefully not anytime soon, I want to make sure this isn't a safety issue or time bomb .
If anyone has ideas or thought who even to call for stuff like this it'd be a huge help.
Your post contains words that indicate you may possibly be in possession of unexploded ordnance (UXO).
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If you're unsure, the first thing to do is LEAVE IT ALONE. Do not shake it, attempt to open it, or disturb it at all.
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They look like cement caps for buried septic tanks. Just a guess.
OP for the love of God and fear of death, do not open unless using a SCBA system. H2S gas will kill you within seconds.
Source: Im a Hazmat Specialist. And have unfortunately recovered bodies from confined spaces like this.
Edit: because I was jamming the keyboard as fast as I can before someone ends up in an open casket.
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*Concrete. Cement is an ingredient in concrete.
Thank you. I did concrete for over 30 years. Everyone everywhere seems to think they are experts on most everything, yeti hear 9/10 people talking about cement patios or the noisy cement trucks going to neighbors. Drives me crazy. Just my rant. Thanks.
Cement is flour, concrete is the cake
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I would guess old septic stuff too probably best to get it checked so you don't end up with a surprise swamp in the yard
A capped dug well?
That's definitely something that could make sense. The second adjacent one seems weird if that's the case though, right?
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Possibly. With my very limited knowledge of drilling, they sometimes drill test lines right next to the main line.
No, probably just another septic tank after that one or the previous one you found collapsed.
I wasn't sure about that chunk. My boyfriend's farm has two dug wells and their diameter is very much the same.
I have a sceptic tank at my house: there are 2 openings to it. I had to uncover both to get it pumped this summer.
The cap broke, they tossed it to the side and put a new one on?
My thought as well. They needed to drill for water, right?
Dug a little further on the second, if it inspires anything ...
https://preview.redd.it/rji2nw3sov5g1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=346ccf57233fa6aea0d59f3acbe9b221bc795ce6
This is your septic tank. If you open the big lid you will see poo. Little lid should be liquid poo, but probably over due for service if you didn’t know it was there.
Been on city sewer since 1950s or 1960s, so its entirely possible they installed two separate tanks in the 20 years between developing the citrus grove in the 40's and getting tied into the city - but seems excessive.
A lot of septic tanks have multiple openings/lids. Generally it’s for multi-chambered tanks with a settling chamber ahead of the main chamber.
They may not have known when city sewer would be available to them when they first developed the property
Are you 100% sure that ALL of your pipes are on city? We've been in our house for 10 years. About 2 years in, we started noticing a funky smell in one area of our back yard and the grass was super green and lush in that area. Then started noticing a bit of moisture and bubbles too. Finally dug and found a square top. Yup, septic tank. There was no mention of septic tank on any of the selling papers. Called the city and they confirmed that the house was moved to city back in 1980, have a copy of the confirmation and company that did the cutover, signed and dated.
Called a septic company to come out and investigate and with their help, figured out that while two bathrooms were moved to the city sewer line, the one half bath in a different part of the house was not. How did we confirm that? By them opening the septic tank, emptying it, then I went to each of the bathrooms and flushed. Sure enough, water flowed out of the half bath and right into the tank. So for almost 40 years, one half bath had been filling up the septic tank and it finally was too full.
Of course moving the half bath to the city line, emptying, then filling with sand the septic tank was all on us as the company that did the original work is long gone. Stupid spetic tank!
Fairly confident. Recent remodel rechecked all sewer lines for existing drains, but it doesn't mean things were removed when they migrated to city.
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They are still common in older neighborhoods for exactly this reason. My neighbors caved in when he drove a car over it. He had no idea it was there.
A typical method to retire old septic tanks is not removal, but to fill with sand and remove the lids.
My neighborhood (jn Portland Oregon) was on cesspools until the late 1990s 🤮
There are city permit records indicating where they were placed in my backyard. Would city / county records help you?
I am waiting on a reply from the city now, good call
Septic systems use 2 tanks, and tanks generally have more than 1 lid.
My long dead grandfather was able to fix a septic tank another way. He would drop in less than a ¼ stick of gelignite, on a long fuse. This would crack the bottom of the tank, and all their shitty problems would go away. I definitely would NOT recommend this.
Particularly if the explosive floats. Ewww.
maybe go out to the side a bit and see what they're sitting on (if anything)?
I probably will, digging is half the fun - out of daylight for now
I know a lot of people are saying septic tanks and They are probably right, but my first thought Is of landscaping tiles for A long buried garden path or something.
Given you said there was another tank/lids 15-20' away my guess is that they are the septic tank then flowing to a distribution box, the order being house, septic, distro. Do the lids move? I'd pop one off to see what's in there. If it's been city sewer since the 60's the possibility of poison gas is pretty low & I'd pop it. Just be ready to run like heck. If there is a box with one in, one out that's likely septic, one in many out, distribution to the field. Or if it's 40's/50's it could be septic then soak pit.
The gases inside can be dangerous. I would leave it to the professionals.
Thanks. Another user mentioned the soak/seepage pit and I agree that makes the most sense so far.
On previous digs I found clay sewer pipe heading to the original tank I found, but nothing leading to this new one. I have not yet dug between the original tanks and the new find. Pipes between them I bet are a giveaway, but won't have a chance for digging today.
PA here but that would be common place as a septic tank lid here.
Would it originally have had some kind of hooks to open it? What put me off thinking septic is the other one on the lot. It's only a 900sq ft house originally so unless one tank failed, two seems excessive. This is how the other looks.
https://preview.redd.it/kavasnnqnv5g1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e118a375ce1783f1da31f212dcf9e55de2eb8b00
Yeah there should be some sort of steel loops but sometimes they rot off. It's not uncommon for places to have 2 smaller tanks or one big one. I'm not sure what they did on your side of the country though. Who knows one might be a clean out and another could have been a breather at one time. Find the old dude in the neighborhood, I'm sure it'd make his day to tell you what it is....lol
That was an outhouse.
I have 3 drainage cisterns around my house that have concrete caps. One is buried but the other two you can see. I’m told their function is just to collect water and then let it drain slowly.
I guess that could make a lot of sense in a previously agricultural area. Wish there was a sure way to tell without finding heavy equipment to open it.
Drill a hole and use a borescope from Amazon
I have one of those, fun af. That said, all the h2s commenters have me scared, waiting now for gov't advice.
Yes that was my guess, since OP indicated he already found the septic tanks previously and that this was previously an orange grove. It's probably a dry well. Pipes run drainage into it at a fast rate, and a small hole in the bottom allows it to trickle into the ground at a slow rate.
I could make a case for caps over a hole of some sort for irrigation. But they could also be footings for a large building that used to stand there. Possibly where the produce was processed?
Pry one up, support it with wood, and poke a light in there. I wanna know!
Never fucking do this Jesus Christ. Don't go prying open potential void spaces with god knows what atmosphere in them at the bottom of a hole. You will kill yourself and every member of your family dumb or panicked enough to come after you. Seafarer here telling you the biggest killer at sea is still people not treating enclosed spaces like a deadly deadly hazard
Unfortunately those lids are at least a few inches thick and a few feet wide - nothing I own will budge them. Maybe I just need to figure out what kind of professional I need then call them.
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That looks like my old cistern
If it is a cistern I wonder how to tell if it's stable or if it's a risk.
unless you have had it filled in NEVER consider it stable, its like explosives, if its there treat it like its live
Guess whether it's septic, cistern, or mystery I probably can't consider it stable without a pro. Appreciate the directness.
Messing with it might make it unstable. Do you have reason to believe it’s unstable?
If its a cistern, its always a risk. Grab a buddy the next time youre messing with theblids- preferably one strong enough to pull you out of a hole.
I would prefer one smart enough to call the fire department. When the "watcher" doesn't know what's doing the chances are two dead people instead of one.
Fun fact- the largest cause of deaths at sea is people trying to rescue other people from enclosed spaces. For every person who asphyxiates one to two other people go in after to try and help and then also die
With how many capped wells are in socal I would be careful fucking with any capped in ground thing, you could inadvertently release trapped hydrogen sulfide which would almost certainly be fatal.
My title describes the thing. I searched common cistern and septic tank shapes and sizes and just am not seeing a fit.
Many are saying that this is an old septic tank and I consider that to be the most likely possibility. However, I have seen instances where septic tanks were used for stormwater retention. Look up your parcel with the city/county health department/public works to verify whether this is a component that is still in use. If it is not, then determine whether it has been decommissioned in accordance with local regulations. It wouldn't be a bad idea to decommission it if it isn't doing anything to eliminate any risk of future collapse or entrapment. H2S exposure is certainly a risk when working near ST's, but if you aren't sticking your head inside the void space you are unlikely to be overcome. That said, it's always a good idea to have a second person around when working near septic tanks as shit occasionally happens.
I was thinking call the town/city office and if they don't have records, they might at least know what it is if it's common enough in the area, or who might've done that kind of work at least
Just carpet bomb emailed a few city departments at the recommendation of the dude who answered the phone. Sent the photos and a Google maps photo with locations drawn in. Waiting.
Sure seems like septic
You found a septic tank before so this could be a pump tank.
septic tank. in the last 6 years i have found 4 of them while planting various things, one was in the driveway and collapsed while moving a large truck over it. none were shown on the deed. the joys of a old home.
found one on the side of the house that was about 7ft deep inside and was just full of dirt. dug it out and use it for rain water collection to water my plants. gutters on that side of the house drain into it, and i have a hand pump attached to fill my watering can.
I dream of doing this with my old tank(s) due to my dry and low rain climate, but I've heard California is strict with rain collection ( if caught)
You'll be in a pile of shit if you open that up
We have a cement lid similar to that which fills from a spring once or twice a day on average. It has frogs and the soil is wet year around. It’s not always a septic tank 😉
Lots of old cisterns and irrigation wells in old orange groves. Also could be bases for old aeration towers.
Probably the top of a drywell
Wonder if it could be a capped off oil or gas well
I really hope not - but also not aware of oil and gas activity in this area.
This is what’s commonly known as rings with a cap septic it actually lets the effluent flow out through the rings the rings are spaced by bricks in between layers and we’re usually installed in pairs. I have dug up plenty of these the pipe going in usually breaks due to the ground settling. There will now be a void under those caps they don’t have something to pull up on because they are installed as a full unit. So you are at the point now where you are digging through old waste. Your call but I wouldn’t drive heavy equipment over them.
I can't find info on rings with a cap septic - is there any resource you're aware of which I can read into it? If so I'll need to get it inspected and filled :(
Ok I can’t link but look up concrete precast seepage rings there are many types.
Ok that was very helpful. Seems they could have had this running off the main tank instead of a leach field right? If so the position makes sense. Still seems odd there's two nearly touching, but Google seems to think double seepage tanks aren't rare. Still makes me think I need to have them filled
Yeah I’ve never dug these up with just one there always two to four. It makes sense to fill them in.
Likely solved
They don’t make them anymore that I know of but they would have been purchased from a concrete precast company. These are old systems that actually did survive the test of time. I’ll see what I can find.
It’s either a septic tank for waste or a cistern for water.
I think I'd dig halfway between the other one and this newly discovered one. These could be caps near the ends of a long septic tank. If you don't hit concrete at the halfway point about 12-18" down, then my guess is probably wrong. That said, I can't imagine what the chances are of digging two holes some years apart and finding two caps that belong to one tank.
I'll have to brainstorm a place this would work. I have an orange tree with a trunk over a foot in diameter dead center between so it's a heck of a root field
Maybe there's a nearby company or institution (e.g., a college) that has a ground penetrating radar. Geology or archeology schools perhaps.
Just looks like a big sewer junction to me. Are you downhill from other properties or at the end of a street?
Dead flat, mid street. City sewer runs thru the street which is the opposite direction from the house than this is.
Darn, Ok... well, that's what it looks like to me. Could it be an old disused sewer? The one like that near my place was from 1950's.
Both still could be possible, just was adding details. Cities have done weirder things. Maybe I contact the city next.
Old footings or septic is my guess..
Septic or access to a storm drain
Kind of looks like part of an irrigation system. Possibly a well.
Maybe an aqueduct for orange grove irrigation?
Maybe an old, defunct fuel tank, like diesel for the orange orchard’s smudge pots.
I remember when we had to watch out at grandmas house because they were so old they might cave in.
If your on city utilities you might be able to get them pumped and crush them then fill it in with similar soil so it will all shrink and swell the same. I wouldn’t know about the local ordinances but check with city or county.
Just a shot in the dark, but they might be old stands for the smudge pots they used to use in the orange groves.
Its always a septic tank or equally nasty, bury it again
Simmer down everyone. Pry it open and shine a light on there.
That’s your septic tank.
Thems be septic tanks. Prehistoric ones. You might wanna have all the toxic gas sensors around it if you intend to open them and be prepared to run. If H2S is present you’re gonna want to run like hell. See last week’s episode of Landman as an example. Episode 2x03 for those of you who’re looking at this comment in 2032
It's a post support. I have them along a gravel driveway on my property. The posts are long gone, but the concrete bases remain. I'll bet if you looked you'd find more in a line, probably just covered with dirt or gravel instead of taking the effort to remove them.
Looks like septic lids. I just had to dig mine up to have my tanks pumped.
These can either be old septic tanks or it can still be tied to your city sewer. Occasionally, in the county I live in, the municipal sewer authority installs a new tank to tie into the city sewer line. I sometimes find homes with more than one tank. They have toilets and showers to one tank, and sinks and washing machine (gray water as they call it) to another tank. Check the plumbing in your home. Find evidence of the old sewer lines.
This looks nearly exactly like what I saw when our septic tank was uncovered for pumping when we had a bad clog from the previous owners.
They look like buried paver stones.
It's likely a cesspool connected to the septic tank which are common in that area I believe. Typically have "leach lines" connected for getting liquids to drain/percolate thru the soil I think. My uncle used to drill them back in the day in Orange County. Hopefully it's been filled - some are deep.
Update: comments have definitely coalesced mostly in saying its a second septic tank, or a seepage pit of some kind. Waiting on my city to reply if they have any information. Next is finding the right kind of contractor to see if it's filled, and if it's not - make it so.
I have no plans of opening myself or drilling. Also, don't want to just cover back up since that's a prime area for another citrus tree. Assuming city records doesn't work a miracle, it's probably time to find a professional.
Thanks everyone
Guess we will see if anything comes up.
Could be an old well, septic tank, sewer hookup. Who knows really. Probably best to leave it be lol