The expensive part is the fact that everything and everyone has to be shipped around the world, compared to GTWC or Imsa which stays in one continent.
Also for GTWC a team like WRT can scale up easier.
But as long as you have a car on the grid for WEC you will find a paying customer.
Edit: yes the shipping is expensive but there is also the whole crew that needs to fly to Japan, Brazil etc. they need rental cars, accommodation etc, and unless you bring your own chef, one meal at the WEC catering is 35-40€ per person. So 10 people for lunch and dinner for 5 days = 1025*40€ =4.000,00 €. That’s just a small portion for a team for the whole weekend.
Hauling GT3 or GT4 around the world probably doesn't differ much. I mean, aside from being a bit wider, and having different aerodynamics and other differences that aren't related to shipping costs, they are the same cars.
I remember Otmar Szafnauer said the actual difference between Force India and Ferrari was not more than 4.5 times more money they had in th yearly budget but it was closer to 100 times more as after you take off all the traveling, shipping and manufacturing costs they had almost nothing left where Ferrari could still have 200+milliojn left to spend
Team WRT's Vincent Vosse clearly said 2 years ago that despite being cheaper than GTE, LMGT3 is really expensive. Again it's Pro-Am and as far I don't have exact numbers, it's more than IMSA GTD-PRO or GTWC Europe Pro.
I think poeople easily forgot just how atrocious GTE was. Truly stupid stupid expensive for no real reason aside of ego and kept artificially alive solely by LM24h. There's a very good reason the class died like 4 different deaths over its lifetime.
The GT3 full pro classes are all moving towards them, one way or the other. Macau got them, DTM has not done it yet but was very close so far. Sucks for the affordability of GT3 but it seems necessary for BoP. And considering the significantly increased costs & general arms race it might even be cheaper in the mid to long term. Like some DTM insiders said that even the high end of 150k per car per season (2 sensors per season + 2 spares) is less than what they spend on their trickery with fluids, filters, etc, to increase engine power, all of which is irrelevant when the wheel power is the only BoP factor.
So LMH has had torque sensors for a few season now. How has it helped the BoP?
Macau was a Ferrari run away victory, how did torque sensors help make a better BoP?
Mortara drove the life out of his Lambo in Macau to end up P3, which they then docked because the car over torqued. How are Torque sensors making better racing?
If the BoP is still fundamentally flawed, all you see if just how much so... They haven't converged the cars much at all.
I know it might not be exactly comparable but to give a rough estimate: The full Nordschleife endurance season with 24h race and ~7 season races will at least cost 1.5 Mil € per season and the car for 500k€ is not included. (Numbers from 2021 I believe). I think that's at least the same if not more. In comparison GTE cars were double or triple the amount to buy iirc. Motor racing ain't cheap for sure.
We all know it’s expensive and that it’s significantly more expensive than regional series.
The field is still filled to the brim with other teams not allowed to enter because there is no room.
It being Pro/Am also has nothing to do with costs, it doesn’t change the price of running or shipping the cars
GT3 is expensive by design because it’s a customer racing class, not just because of all the globe trotting WEC does.
Manufacturers see gentlemen drivers as piggy banks, and try squeeze out as much money as they can with expensive Evo kits or outright new cars every couple of years.
There’s a reason why LMP2 is still so popular despite being so old, the same team could have raced the same 2017 Oreca 07 chassis for the past 8 years and that’s much more cost effective than GT3.
By comparison with GT3 in the past 8 years, on the Porsche side there was the 991.1, the 991.2, 992.1 and soon the 992.2 GT3 R. That’s probably a good $4mil in cars, parts and Evo kits alone.
The other manufacturers do the same with Evo kits every 2 years or so, with some of them like Lamborghini it’s really obvious to tell that they really aren’t interested in racing unless if they make money out of it.
LMP3 is definitely a most budget option if teams and drivers can’t go GT3 car although it only belongs side series such like ELMS, Le Mans Cup, and VP Racing.
They are piggy banks, if manufacturers didn't make money out of it, there would be no reason to have amateurs driving GT's instead of professionals. They have categories like Hypercar or F1 for their racing for the sake of racing projects.
The benefit of GT is that you see the car you can buy though. F1 and LMH is great but it's different to seeing a 911 win its class and then see a 911 at a dealership.
new GT3 cars are about 600-650K€, not that cheaper than 488 and 911RSR that were in the range of 750K.
Biggest difference is the environment around, gt3 is still healthy because lot of cars and spare parts are produced being gt3 cars used in series all around the world and private teams are funded by am drivers money. GTE cars became too expensive that they were used mainly by work/factory teams and few private teams could really afford them.
So, long story short, isn't a matter of costs of the car but of the whole motorsport context.
It is expensive but it is the top tier of AM GT3 racing so if you cannot afford it there are so many cheaper options like GT Open or the 24H series and national GT Championships.
Most of the world couldn't easily afford anything past a go kart in their spare time. It's why sim racing is the way to go for getting new fans. If I was in charge of any IMSA/WEC etc I'd be helping iracing put my product online in order to gain fans and potential drivers.
I have a personal theory that there’s an invisible time-wall that we keep bouncing off of for GT cars at Le Mans. The OG GT1 prototypes got to a certain speed, priced themselves out of existence and LMP900 took over, with GT2/GTS becoming the new GT1.
This is the GT1 ASM2 just added. Your Vipers, C5R, C6R, Aston Martin DBR9, and MC12. They got faster and faster until, wouldn’t you know it? They priced themselves out of existence.
GT2 came up to replace GT1. They called in GTE though. Whatever. They got faster and faster, but this time BoP is in place so no one is incentivized to spend millions every year in research and no funny games will happen (queue laughing from crowd). All right! I see we quickly priced our way out of those regulations.
Now GT3 is up to bat! Expect GT5 soon for the eventual replacement. GT4 didn’t really boom until about 6 years before GT2 died. I think Gt3 still has another 10 left in it yet, but I do think we’ve already peaked. Look at all the brands no longer heavily involved in GT3: Audi, Dodge, Nissan, Bentley, Acura/Honda, McLaren’s taken their foot off their customer programs big time, Chevy and Ford only joined because it’s the Le Mans class.
The final thing is I don’t see many, if any, new brands joining soon that aren’t already in it (what eligible cars are on the market? Honda doesn’t have one. Subaru could, but road racers aren’t their demographic. Audi doesn’t have one. Dodge could, but they’ve sworn off racing for the moment. Jaguar is a joke rn. Maserati is doing…. things, i’m sure. Bentley needs to bring the continental back to GT3, but it isn’t going to happen. GM has their only dog in the fight. That could stop any moment. Ford has their only dog in the fight. Also could be pulled any moment. Mazda? No eligible models unless the Miata is getting a massive upgrade. Alfa? lol. Kia? Even funnier. Genesis no models. And that’s pretty much all the major brands not in GT3 rn)
I’m not sure entry lists support your point whatsoever. For GT3 it’s crucial to look outside of WEC and see the broader scope of programs for these manufacturers.
You mention Ford and GM only caring because it’s Le Mans. If that’s the case then why have they expanded to Bathurst this year with their program? Why is GM traveling to Suzuka and why is Ford doing DTM?
In addition McLaren is also sending a car to Bathurst and adding an IMSA GTD Pro car.
When all other GT3 fields seem to be growing (I’d imagine GTWC will have a near 60 car grid again) I can’t feasibly see WEC moving away from GT3 so quick
Even if GT3 lasted "only" another 10 years, that would mean it had survived for 30 years, which would be an incredibly long time by sportscar standards. Perhaps even a record.
I think there is a massive difference for GT3 vs all of the others you mentioned. There were very few opportunities to race those cars outside of IMSA and the WEC or whatever its equivalent was at the time. Far fewer were produced and you never had a chance to really make much money back on your investment. The reverse of that is GT3 where you can make money selling customer cars and service/parts for those cars and you can race them every weekend of the year. That makes it far more sustainable than those other categories. I do think WEC costs are stupid for what those cars are and I think they could be doing more to mitigate some of the costs.
Many of the manufacturers you mentioned stopped their GT3 because they don't manufacture the GT cars anymore. None of the Italian related to Ferrari will do something ( even though I would love to see an Alfa Giulia GT3, and to convert the maserati gt2 to a gt3 would be easy). Audi stopped the R8 in 2024, and Nissan stopped the GTR this year. The manufacturers don't have the money to invest. All automotive industries are downsizing their production. Many governments are forcing the electrification, and the customers are not buying cars that take hours to refill. On the other hand, Genesis and Cherry are planning to produce new gt cars.
The expensive part is the fact that everything and everyone has to be shipped around the world, compared to GTWC or Imsa which stays in one continent. Also for GTWC a team like WRT can scale up easier.
But as long as you have a car on the grid for WEC you will find a paying customer.
Edit: yes the shipping is expensive but there is also the whole crew that needs to fly to Japan, Brazil etc. they need rental cars, accommodation etc, and unless you bring your own chef, one meal at the WEC catering is 35-40€ per person. So 10 people for lunch and dinner for 5 days = 1025*40€ =4.000,00 €. That’s just a small portion for a team for the whole weekend.
Yup - you could run GT4s and it would still be stupidly expensive to go globe-trotting.
Hauling GT3 or GT4 around the world probably doesn't differ much. I mean, aside from being a bit wider, and having different aerodynamics and other differences that aren't related to shipping costs, they are the same cars.
That's his point - it doesn't matter if it is GT3 or GT4, logistics is the expensive part and that doesn't change from one spec to the next
I remember Otmar Szafnauer said the actual difference between Force India and Ferrari was not more than 4.5 times more money they had in th yearly budget but it was closer to 100 times more as after you take off all the traveling, shipping and manufacturing costs they had almost nothing left where Ferrari could still have 200+milliojn left to spend
IMSA is obnoxiously expensive also and it's a national championship. It's not just travel.
Same spec cars and similar rules, it's ~4-5m USD for a full season in GTD and GTD PRO.
IMSA (and GTWC) also have a lot more races than the WEC.
Edit:
Just to clarify that I do completely agree that it’s not just the travel, but it is a large component.
When you go to the races, it makes sense how they could spend so much money. Even backmarker GTD teams have relatively insane setups.
Exactly. GT3 cars are 1M USD now when you factor in spares, mandatory equipment, torque sensors, spares packages and support.
That’s just gt3 racing
Motorsport is expensive and the field is full, with teams waiting for spots to become available.
Cost is really not an issue for LMGT3
This isn't really true. GT3 and LMGT3 are different, and the cost to upgrade to LMGT3 is in the region of hundreds of thousands.
Welcome to the top echelons of Motorsport
What makes LMGT3 more expensive? I thought they were mostly just detuned GT3 cars
Quite the opposite. There are differences in aero, but the big costs come in the kit used for BOP, such as torque sensors.
Team WRT's Vincent Vosse clearly said 2 years ago that despite being cheaper than GTE, LMGT3 is really expensive. Again it's Pro-Am and as far I don't have exact numbers, it's more than IMSA GTD-PRO or GTWC Europe Pro.
I think poeople easily forgot just how atrocious GTE was. Truly stupid stupid expensive for no real reason aside of ego and kept artificially alive solely by LM24h. There's a very good reason the class died like 4 different deaths over its lifetime.
How much different is LMGT3 from the GT3 cars used in other championships - all racing is expensive.
Torque sensors bro. Stupid expensive vs a GT3 that doesn't have them
IMSA also adopted the torque sensor in GTD classes.
The GT3 full pro classes are all moving towards them, one way or the other. Macau got them, DTM has not done it yet but was very close so far. Sucks for the affordability of GT3 but it seems necessary for BoP. And considering the significantly increased costs & general arms race it might even be cheaper in the mid to long term. Like some DTM insiders said that even the high end of 150k per car per season (2 sensors per season + 2 spares) is less than what they spend on their trickery with fluids, filters, etc, to increase engine power, all of which is irrelevant when the wheel power is the only BoP factor.
So LMH has had torque sensors for a few season now. How has it helped the BoP?
Macau was a Ferrari run away victory, how did torque sensors help make a better BoP?
Mortara drove the life out of his Lambo in Macau to end up P3, which they then docked because the car over torqued. How are Torque sensors making better racing?
If the BoP is still fundamentally flawed, all you see if just how much so... They haven't converged the cars much at all.
And worse they are a dead end.
The sooner the ACO removes its head from its arse and accepts that the SRO bop is about as good as it gets, the better.
ACO never will. They die on their Hill... too stubborn.
It took years for them to move to GT3 as a platform, and even then wanted to overhaul it far more than now.
Lmdh also took a bit of time and lets be honest its not really equivalent to and LMH.
And stupid mufflers
Yes, no one wants to hear the Porsche gtp. BMW isn't much better. I honestly couldn't tell you when a Porsche gtp or bmw gtp passed by a road Atlanta.
Bring back the 911 rsr 17-18 scream.
That's what people dream about
I know it might not be exactly comparable but to give a rough estimate: The full Nordschleife endurance season with 24h race and ~7 season races will at least cost 1.5 Mil € per season and the car for 500k€ is not included. (Numbers from 2021 I believe). I think that's at least the same if not more. In comparison GTE cars were double or triple the amount to buy iirc. Motor racing ain't cheap for sure.
So what?
We all know it’s expensive and that it’s significantly more expensive than regional series.
The field is still filled to the brim with other teams not allowed to enter because there is no room. It being Pro/Am also has nothing to do with costs, it doesn’t change the price of running or shipping the cars
GT3 is expensive by design because it’s a customer racing class, not just because of all the globe trotting WEC does.
Manufacturers see gentlemen drivers as piggy banks, and try squeeze out as much money as they can with expensive Evo kits or outright new cars every couple of years.
There’s a reason why LMP2 is still so popular despite being so old, the same team could have raced the same 2017 Oreca 07 chassis for the past 8 years and that’s much more cost effective than GT3.
By comparison with GT3 in the past 8 years, on the Porsche side there was the 991.1, the 991.2, 992.1 and soon the 992.2 GT3 R. That’s probably a good $4mil in cars, parts and Evo kits alone.
The other manufacturers do the same with Evo kits every 2 years or so, with some of them like Lamborghini it’s really obvious to tell that they really aren’t interested in racing unless if they make money out of it.
LMP3 is definitely a most budget option if teams and drivers can’t go GT3 car although it only belongs side series such like ELMS, Le Mans Cup, and VP Racing.
They are piggy banks, if manufacturers didn't make money out of it, there would be no reason to have amateurs driving GT's instead of professionals. They have categories like Hypercar or F1 for their racing for the sake of racing projects.
The benefit of GT is that you see the car you can buy though. F1 and LMH is great but it's different to seeing a 911 win its class and then see a 911 at a dealership.
Compared to GTE, I imagine no.
new GT3 cars are about 600-650K€, not that cheaper than 488 and 911RSR that were in the range of 750K.
Biggest difference is the environment around, gt3 is still healthy because lot of cars and spare parts are produced being gt3 cars used in series all around the world and private teams are funded by am drivers money. GTE cars became too expensive that they were used mainly by work/factory teams and few private teams could really afford them.
So, long story short, isn't a matter of costs of the car but of the whole motorsport context.
All racing is expensive.
No. It only becomes "too expensive" when teams stop wanting to join, which isn't the case as the field is packed.
Stéphane Ratel, who is SRO founder and building most GT race rules, has already noticed cost issue in GT3, so that’s reason why he rebuilt GT2 class.
However, not so many teams and automakers come and interest in GT2 class, as they’re still fine current cost in GT3 class.
Those GT2 Audis were so cool looking.
Obviously not because grids are getting bigger and bigger all over the world. If a driver or team want a cheater option then get a GT4 car.
The costs aren't too high. My supply of money is too low.
It is expensive but it is the top tier of AM GT3 racing so if you cannot afford it there are so many cheaper options like GT Open or the 24H series and national GT Championships.
A lot cheaper than gte
More expensive than gt4
Mostly for pro teams
Most of the world couldn't easily afford anything past a go kart in their spare time. It's why sim racing is the way to go for getting new fans. If I was in charge of any IMSA/WEC etc I'd be helping iracing put my product online in order to gain fans and potential drivers.
I have a personal theory that there’s an invisible time-wall that we keep bouncing off of for GT cars at Le Mans. The OG GT1 prototypes got to a certain speed, priced themselves out of existence and LMP900 took over, with GT2/GTS becoming the new GT1.
This is the GT1 ASM2 just added. Your Vipers, C5R, C6R, Aston Martin DBR9, and MC12. They got faster and faster until, wouldn’t you know it? They priced themselves out of existence.
GT2 came up to replace GT1. They called in GTE though. Whatever. They got faster and faster, but this time BoP is in place so no one is incentivized to spend millions every year in research and no funny games will happen (queue laughing from crowd). All right! I see we quickly priced our way out of those regulations.
Now GT3 is up to bat! Expect GT5 soon for the eventual replacement. GT4 didn’t really boom until about 6 years before GT2 died. I think Gt3 still has another 10 left in it yet, but I do think we’ve already peaked. Look at all the brands no longer heavily involved in GT3: Audi, Dodge, Nissan, Bentley, Acura/Honda, McLaren’s taken their foot off their customer programs big time, Chevy and Ford only joined because it’s the Le Mans class.
The final thing is I don’t see many, if any, new brands joining soon that aren’t already in it (what eligible cars are on the market? Honda doesn’t have one. Subaru could, but road racers aren’t their demographic. Audi doesn’t have one. Dodge could, but they’ve sworn off racing for the moment. Jaguar is a joke rn. Maserati is doing…. things, i’m sure. Bentley needs to bring the continental back to GT3, but it isn’t going to happen. GM has their only dog in the fight. That could stop any moment. Ford has their only dog in the fight. Also could be pulled any moment. Mazda? No eligible models unless the Miata is getting a massive upgrade. Alfa? lol. Kia? Even funnier. Genesis no models. And that’s pretty much all the major brands not in GT3 rn)
I’m not sure entry lists support your point whatsoever. For GT3 it’s crucial to look outside of WEC and see the broader scope of programs for these manufacturers.
You mention Ford and GM only caring because it’s Le Mans. If that’s the case then why have they expanded to Bathurst this year with their program? Why is GM traveling to Suzuka and why is Ford doing DTM?
In addition McLaren is also sending a car to Bathurst and adding an IMSA GTD Pro car.
When all other GT3 fields seem to be growing (I’d imagine GTWC will have a near 60 car grid again) I can’t feasibly see WEC moving away from GT3 so quick
Even if GT3 lasted "only" another 10 years, that would mean it had survived for 30 years, which would be an incredibly long time by sportscar standards. Perhaps even a record.
There are two potential additional marques that could be in GT3 in the short(ish) to medium term that aren't currently there
Does that include Toyota?
No
I think there is a massive difference for GT3 vs all of the others you mentioned. There were very few opportunities to race those cars outside of IMSA and the WEC or whatever its equivalent was at the time. Far fewer were produced and you never had a chance to really make much money back on your investment. The reverse of that is GT3 where you can make money selling customer cars and service/parts for those cars and you can race them every weekend of the year. That makes it far more sustainable than those other categories. I do think WEC costs are stupid for what those cars are and I think they could be doing more to mitigate some of the costs.
Many of the manufacturers you mentioned stopped their GT3 because they don't manufacture the GT cars anymore. None of the Italian related to Ferrari will do something ( even though I would love to see an Alfa Giulia GT3, and to convert the maserati gt2 to a gt3 would be easy). Audi stopped the R8 in 2024, and Nissan stopped the GTR this year. The manufacturers don't have the money to invest. All automotive industries are downsizing their production. Many governments are forcing the electrification, and the customers are not buying cars that take hours to refill. On the other hand, Genesis and Cherry are planning to produce new gt cars.
Way too expensive. WEC is 5x GTWC Europe endurance
Different market - and both are full
A full GTWC Endurance season is only €1.1 million per car? That seems suspiciously low.