- Forced Sellers vs. Optional Buyers This is the main issue
- The Carry Trader: When the Yen spikes (because the BoJ hiked), these guys are underwater immediately. They aren’t selling U.S. stocks because they want to; they are selling because they are getting margin called. They are forced sellers. They need cash T-minus now. They hit the bid, regardless of the price.
- The Domestic Buyer: Sure, U.S. rate cuts look good for stocks. But if you're a domestic investor, you aren't forced to buy today. You see the market tanking from the carry unwind and you think, "I'll wait for the bottom."
So you have a flood of "sell at any price" orders and a total lack of "buy right now" orders. That creates an air pocket, and prices freefall.
The 10x Multiplier Carry trades are almost never 1:1 with cash. They are highly leveraged, often 5x or 10x. If a fund unwinds a $1B carry trade, they might have to dump $5B to $10B worth of assets (like U.S. Tech stocks) to pay back the loan. A domestic buyer entering the market because of a 0.25% rate cut is likely buying with cash (1:1). Math: It takes 10 domestic buyers to absorb the damage of 1 carry trader blowing up. The volume mismatch is insane.
Convergence kills the trade You have to remember that the Carry Trade is purely an arbitrage play. It only exists because there is a massive gap (divergence) between U.S. and JP rates.
- Wide Gap: Free money. Everyone piles in.
- Gap Closing (Convergence): The free money is gone.
The U.S. cutting rates actually accelerates the pain for the carry trader. It shrinks their profit margin from the U.S. side while the BoJ crushes them on the cost side. It’s not a "meeting in the middle," it’s a pincer movement.
TL;DR: Domestic buyers are walking into the store looking for bargains. Carry traders are running out of the store because the building is on fire. One group is much faster and more violent than the other.
Join WSB Discord
get off chatgpt while you're at work and put my fries in the bag
He is the reason why you ask for 3 bbq and only get 1!
You're lucky if you get 1. If you don't check before pulling off then it's not in there at all.
schrodinger's bbq
Most be a zoomer who doesn’t know how to think or type without the pt lol
Says the guys who just liquidated for Christmas bonus and will be on a yacht in January
https://preview.redd.it/fc13srfbjh7g1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2fb10b80ec658095a40f8c0a1c063b9249dd8295
I can tell you the real reason but nobody will believe me:
The prices are fake, and they are there to entice people when to buy and sell by using the media and price fluctuations
When people that own the market get something wrong, like a short squeeze, things get interesting (2008 and the VW short squeeze)
Those that are stuck in the wrong side of the bet, find themselves having to buy back stock that they sold naked and failed to delivered, or more importantly all the naked calls they sold, which makes them real vulnerable to gamma increases (high volatility/large price swings)
What you’re seeing is those Short Sellers/MM/Banks/Media needing to sell their assets (Bitcoin, AMD…), to cover bad bets from naked selling
Squeeze deez nuts you fuckin nerd.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
Bot this
i asked for a diet coke and this is a regular coke. do i need to call over the manager?
Try Mexican coke, it’s better
Colombian better
Cane sugar vs high fructose corn syrup cause no government subsidies
Thank you I was feeling terrible and I actually laughed for the first time in a minute 😂
He’s not wrong though
It’s actually because my cat said so
My wife is going to leave me and I am close to ending it all. What does Whiskers think is the smart play tomorrow?
Cat says puts on the industrial door hinge sector.
The cat knows war is coming and wants you to go all in on weapons of mass destruction
Last week my cat walked across my keyboard and somehow pulled up a chart on LLY
Say no more. Calls it is
Cats give the best FA, I'ma trust this one
not 🐒🐒🐒 throwing 🎯🎯🎯 ❔️ 🤔
The cat in the shat
Remember the guy who’s rooster picked calls or puts or some shit. Good times
Remember the guy who let gold fish pick stocks and the gold fish ended up beating most people in the market? That video was hilarious (and real by the way)
Michael reeves yearly video lol
I truly in my heart despise these people using chatgpt to post on reddit.
Why would they take the time to post something that they care so little about they can’t write a paragraph about it?
How else are we gonna pump the stock price :(
Yeah who tf is upvoting this
I’m hiding in the frozen food section trying not to get shot
Dont worry, you are beyond meat
Synthetics are like teflon
Bondi cops were aswell.
It’s December…happens all the time.
Spy is like half a % off of ATH. The fuck are you tards on?
Leverage, baby 🤩
I'm somehow down 5% and even I don't fully understand how I did that
Seriously, somehow my longs and hedges are down lmao
PUT IT IN ALL CAPS AND -5% IS MORE LIKE +6%, 7%......
That's not leverage, that's doo doo baby
Yup. Gives the illusion that all is well, while tits up on the leverage side. We’ve got some BIG imbalances in these markets right now, as has been covered by market “bers” in various posts.
Of course, with every passing day, we can find new ways to kick the can and keep this high stakes, global chess game going.
High beta smaller caps stocks. Thats what hes on about
Exactly. The high beta stocks are getting annihilated
Yeah I love me some small cap stocks. They will bounce back. But for sure they have been getting demolished. Today seems like a larger sell off. I’ll be looking for bargain hunting this week on tickers depending what percentage things drop.
But yeah spy is still hovering around record highs. There are basically two markets. The magnificent 7 and spy and then mid and small caps.
Big tech and meme stocks, jacked to the tits.
This is the way.
No friends and women won't touch my penis.
That's what I'm on.
c'mon now, let's not pretend this is not a casino where everyone either jacked to the tits or giving blowy to glowies in the back alley.
don't you get it.
Indices are somehow relatively solid but individual stocks are hurt hurt. Especially small caps. Such an eerie situation.
That’s what scares me about the jobs report tomorrow. If we get news that unemployment is higher and the rest of the private sector is starting to struggle, the bottom could fall out
Honestly I think the anticipation is worse than the results , it usually is. Which is why I’m not surprised that Friday and today was risk off day. But if data tomorrow and Thursday is crap then the gloves are off. Then market tanking would not be a surprise. However, if it’s good data and it continues to tank then I don’t have a clue what’s going on. You also have a situation if data is crap stocks tank and immediately pump for no reason.
It’s actually the opposite of what you said. If the jobs report comes in higher than the Fed has more room to cut rates which will be received positively. The market does not care about jobs, they care about how it impacts the policy of the Fed.
Half a percent =/= $13 (and counting) off of ATH.
Didnt you know? The new age trader thinks any red number at all is a full on ww3, asteroid coming to wipe us out panic crash.
If markets dont up straight up every week the leveraged traders think the world is ending because their 5x inverse ETF is shitting the bed.
Anyone who actually follows the bond market knows: 1. The size and leverage of the carry trade is a problem, but 2. It's not unwinding, only retards who heard of it once are using it as an excuse for why the market is down. The currently volatile part of the JGB bonds are all at the long end, these maturities have nothing to do with the carry trade AND the yen has been weakening. These are like the exact opposite conditions of carry trade unwinding. People just like to parrot this shit because they think it makes them look like they understand economics
Freefall!
by market he meant the bear markt
It’s also December and everyone’s adjusting positions for taxes/EOY profits. Doesnt this like always happen lol
Usually it goes up in Dec I thought? Could be wrong but I thought it was up usually
It’s called a Santa Claus rally for regards who still believe in Santa
Also it’s usually the last 5 days of the year
15 days, just saw the graph on twitter
flat first half of the month, then goes up second half
Google that shit
Generally goes up in December but only because institutional investors take a break.
At the end of the
Opposite- people aren’t selling to avoid taxes for another year. Santa rally.
I have no idea how heavy a yen is but it must weigh a metric fucking ton with how much of an issue it is to carry.
https://preview.redd.it/efs2tceswg7g1.png?width=395&format=png&auto=webp&s=8dc087554c64ca8bf5aeb57f09e8dd9416748344
Fake card. The real one also reduces max hand size.
brb, sounds like I need to reach out to $EBAY.
https://preview.redd.it/bbprclzrui7g1.jpeg?width=1283&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=84c74e379efecf54d3278bdfe9a2dca2fa18ee3e
Oh, please, enough with the Yen carry trade already. The poor are getting poorer and simulated intelligence is a money pit.
I read somewhere last time these Yen traders were actually shorters and ended up pumping SPY. Also do they really make up enough portion for SPY to dump? I see data center stocks dumping and that makes sense but SP500? Also japan hasn't even enounced the hike yet its just on the table. I don't see a market correction on table cause most of these yen guys i expect them to be in mid-cap. Idk I also don't have much experience with this bs.
also rate isn't being super hiked either
Data center stocks are dumping?
NBIS is down like 10% today lmao
Anyone who actually follows the bond market knows: 1. The size and leverage of the carry trade is a problem, but 2. It's not unwinding, only retards who heard of it once are using it as an excuse for why the market is down. The currently volatile part of the JGB bonds are all at the long end, these maturities have nothing to do with the carry trade AND the yen has been weakening. These are like the exact opposite conditions of carry trade unwinding. People just like to parrot this shit because they think it makes them look like they understand economics
Carry deez nuts
Little bit of this, little bit of that, you know…
Cause the big guys need a decent entry price.. META & AVGO are prime examples..
Black Friday sales continue!!!
Wait are you claiming to know, how market works 😏
How does this affect the 0dte spy options I’m gonna buy at 930am
August 2024 called and want their analysis back
Also end of year tax harvesting. Selling losers to avoid taxes on gain. Later in the year repositioning mutual funds also sell losers.
It hit an all time high on Thursday
Agree - what I find interesting is that both the fed cut and the boj raise were almost certainties so should have been priced in by the markets
might have been? cause spy is just 1-2% from ATH
Yes spy is the only stock people buy
I totally get it.
Buy high, sell low.
Sell my EBT card, buy 0DTE SPY calls, tessler puts
All gold everything.
Fat, lazy, disgusting millennial single mothers, poured into a chair in front of AIM and MySpace for most of the 2000's, are why 5'7" femmy zoomers raised on nuggets and pizza rolls, crave mentally decrepit girls with horrific gigantism of the ass, who also barely exhibit enough brain activity to register their body dysmorphia, or utter doom as a species.
It all makes sense.
Sooooo calls it is
What is this Gen Z/chatgpt BS
people have no money, people have bills to pay, people sell.
Copium.
We’re all eagerly awaiting your call Nostradamus
Just look around. What good thing is going on? War with Venezuela. Deportations? Ram prices out of control? AI bubble?
Nice try ChatGPT.
Correction - the market isn’t going down, the ‘tech market’ is going down. If we look at SPY, we’re still not at ATH but up 14% on the year and a relatively strong close given how badly tech stocks have tanked. This implies a rotation which you can see in consumer stocks closing green yesterday.
I do see some merit to your points on margin calls but I think investors are still concerned about the AI bubble and trying to derisk in other sectors. Given the strong earnings from most of your AI stocks, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a Santa rally once investors nerves have eased.
I think this is a great opportunity to buy the dip! But then again, I’m a regard
The Republicans have a history of damaging the US economy. Every time they come into power we enter an economic downturn. Every time.
The markets are reacting to the chaos of random, shoot from the hip, economic subterfuge. You literally have a toddler making random decisions. At some point things get bad. We are seeing the downturn already. It's only gonna get worse, much worse.
What I want to know is how has the market performed with Republicans in charge the 10 months before the mid term elections. That would be meaningful information.
Since Ronald Regan, there is no Republican president and no Republican majority that has EVER improved the economy. All they do is cut taxes and regulations for the rich. That always leads to the debt sky rocketing (Trump is at 2T+ this year) and lost jobs and economic turmoil. There is no example or data that says anything else. It always goes sideways because Republicans enrich themselves at the detriment of the bulk majority of the populous. Period.
historically terrible before midterms
We are at all time highs rn. What downturn are you talking about?
1.1 million job losses, and inflation at 10%+ due to tariffs. It's painfully obvious how bad things are right now.
10% inflation? Do you live in Venezuela?
If you’re investing money, at least be truthful and objective about your facts.
Prices have almost doubled for many food products. All driven by tariffs. It's hard to gauge because the Whitehouse won't release information. They fired the guy who reported accurate numbers, remember?
The fed just talked about this and they suggested inflation for the current year is likely 10%+ due to tariffs. Ignoring reality solves nothing.
lol no, the fed did not. They wouldn’t be lowering rates if inflation was that high.
It's tariff inflation. It's not real inflation. Result is the same though. Removing the tariffs would still take several quarters to see prices lower too. Trumps economy is in shambles and he has no one to blame but himself.
we alrdy had a crash for that reason, then we pumped. and he was stil prez during the pump. ur thesis is silly
Thank you. Have been waiting for someone to post this doom. Sitting on cash, but will get a few puts for the gloom move. 🫶🏻
Can someone highlight the yen spike, that supposedly forced margin calls? Yen looks pretty stable to me.
Cuz it knows I just heavily bought back in...
Have you considered it’s due to the market developing Trump Derangement Syndrome?
This is actually a solid breakdown of the carry trade mechanics. Makes me wonder what the prediction markets are saying about this whole situation polymarket probably has some wild odds on how this unwind plays out over the next few weeks
It's going down because people are selling. What else do yah need to know?
But why though?
AI sector got too far ahead of itself - it's looking like it might not hit the numbers people were projecting / anticipating. IE: Look at ORCLs recent drop, followed by AVGO the next day. There are still warning signs flashing that we may be in a bubble (MAY BE IN ONE).
AVGO basically said on the call that "margins are going to fall". Oracle didn't really have an answer for the massive debts they're taking on - and can't seem to secure more. Their bonds are not selling / are going down. They pushed back the datacenters with OpenAI for 1 year. OpenAI may not be able to deliver either. Basically - this means that the entire sector is likely to not be as profitable as projected -> everything goes down.
Everyone is worried about the AI trade right now. It's dragging everything down with it.
Too much fake money!
All money is fake money
Or it’s because they let the same retards who caused the dotcom bubble crash borrow money to do it all over again because they have goldfish memory?
Are you seeing stocks in free fall?
Again with this carry trade nonsense? That was years ago give it up
Once I saw that I stopped reading total BS
More sellers than buyers.
I think the carry trade is overhyped this year. Have you seen Nikkei? It’s up way more than S&P 500. Why wouldn’t the traders that borrow yen just buy Nikkei?
Taking profits to buy presents
Isn't December the typical profit taking month?
Source: I watch candles, Bloomberg and wsb daily
stocks mooning tomorrow. paper hands getting caught after hours
I need the market to go down on me instead 👀
Yep EWJ just fell off a cliff.
Is there such a thing as a forced buyer tho?
Liquidating to buy absurd amount of Xmas gifts
I don't think the BOJ hiked yet. But it's coming. This week.
Joke's on you: Crypto can crash all on its own.
Mike burry tweet? Trump tweet? China tweet? J Powell speech? Just another name for manipulation to shake out the weak hands. If the algos read their tweets (which I don't believe) then the algos should read mine also 😂
Xi shall shee
Manipulation. The rich selling then buying back at discounted prices.
Stonks only go up.
My fault. I was buying lately
It happens on days that only end in “y”.
there must be easier ways to farm karma
Markets are falling cuz I loaded calls
This billionaire trying to give us clues
None of this matters
Good theory. Encourage your interest to study it more.
TLDR: stock goes down because people sell. So let’s wait until people buy?
Ciao come stai?
Margin calls
The market is really going down because I brought so many stocks this month
Fucking gen z needs to get off the chat gpt and use their darn brain once, or dick, either way they would be better off than this.
Aren’t we less than 3% off all time highs rn?
Agree. Which is why those high beta speculative stocks and 💩 🌽 are getting destroyed. Yen carry trade unwind will effect these the most.
That's too many words. Can you r/explainlikeimfive
It’s 2.73% up since last month.
Is the tanking in the room with us?
https://preview.redd.it/yj9r5muswh7g1.jpeg?width=1320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53e0eba1081df36a62fbff0a63a26d5a0c11ff1c
Bleed events like this that are counter Santa rally sentiment are always harder to explain perhaps maybe because they aren't necessary the norm.
But also explaining the why of anything, it's all potential outcomes with probability of happening. No certainty.
Think it's just obvious the economy is dipping deeper and deeper, it's actually beginning to suck the fuel out of markets. Probably a tale event is coming. Right then left, or left first? Who knows.
This seems reasonable but what’s more realistic is cause I bought some stocks that’s why it’s going down
Just another ai slop post.
It's normal for this time of year.
Because it’s overvalued. By a lot. Wait for more!
Whatever dumb shit you’re gambling on is not representative of the market.
We get a Grinch dip instead of a Santa rally this year.
Be serious, please!
Because I bought a lot of stock
Its barely gone down. It's tax loss harvesting season.
They are pricing in December 19th. That's why they are down.
Carry this carry that
Why don’t you carry the fries into the bag
Mine agrees
https://preview.redd.it/eoxbemhrfi7g1.jpeg?width=2304&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8caa517ae5930514e09545cbb7da6629714a665e
The USD gained 9% against the yen since liberation day.
Carry traders made a fuckton of money.
If you're down in this market you must really be down
here we go again with the T-minus dog shit wrapped in cat shit with the short ladder attack on pearl harbor
Economy is shit
The leverage is round the wrong way.
Also I get your mum wetter than your chin
[removed]
Also tax loss trading. Buying will resume in jan after the 30 day wash period