I support you! The hill I will die on is that "Holiday Road" from the Vacation movies is NOT a Christmas song.
In the past few years more and more people have come out and said it's their favorite Christmas song. I've even started to hear it played on Christmas stations.
People have stated two reasons for this:
1) It's in the Christmas vacation movie
Not only is it NOT in that movie, it is the only Vacation movie that it isn't in! It was written specifically for the original movie and is in Europe, Vegas and the recent Vacation reboot. But it skipped over Christmas Vacation and they made the song for the intro sequence instead.
2) It's called "Holiday Road", it has the word "holiday" in it. It is about the holidays!
Guess what "holiday" is another word for? Vacation! It's about going on a road trip vacation, which makes perfect sense considering it was made for the first movie which is about taking a road trip across the country on a vacation. If every song about vacations is a Christmas song, is Vacation by The Go-Gos a Christmas song? If every song with the word "holiday" in the title is a Christmas song, is Holiday by Green Day a Christmas song?
It makes absolutely no sense, and yet some people still insist on it being a Christmas song.
Die Hard being a Christmas movie and the merits of a hotdog being a sandwich are two arguments I like to think only stupid people have, but then someone starts that conversation and I end up in the middle of it.
If your definition of sandwich is "meat between bread" then a schnitzel is a sandwich.
Defining sandwich as "filling between slices of bread" would exclude a lot of the more absurd technical 'sandwiches' like burritos, calzones, pop tarts, and most hot dogs. But I'm sure there's some other food that's filling between slices of bread but clearly not what people think of when they hear "sandwich".
Defining sandwich as "filling between slices of bread" would exclude a lot of the more absurd technical 'sandwiches' like burritos, calzones, pop tarts, and most hot dogs.
A hot dog is the prepared result. The meat only part of a hot dog is called a frank or weiner.
Die Hard takes place during Christmas, has Christmas-centric plot themes and dialog, has Christmas music, and contains scenes that feature Christmas iconography.
All that said, people are free to draw their own conclusions, because it honestly doesn't affect me.
I disagree with the wiener not being called a hot dog, but can go either way on Die Hard really. Point is, there’s arguments to be made for either side.
Die Hard takes place during Christmas, has Christmas-centric plot themes and dialog, has Christmas music, and contains scenes that feature Christmas iconography.
If die hard isn’t a Christmas movie then neither is home alone. Home alone isn’t about Christmas and could have been an almost identical movie with the family leaving for summer vacation or spring break.
And if a Christmas movie has to be ABOUT Christmas, then It's a Wonderful Life sure as shit isn't a Christmas movie, either. Hell, Christmas is more integral to the plot of Die Hard than it is to It's a Wonderful Life.
If die hard isn’t a Christmas movie then neither is home alone. Home alone isn’t about Christmas and could have been an almost identical movie with the family leaving for summer vacation or spring break.
I mean... it really only would take minimal alterations to the script. Instead of a holiday party, it's celebrating the opening of the Nakatomi office in the new building. Remove or swap out any holiday-themed props (like the festive packing tape), and omit the handful of mentions of the holiday from the dialog.
It's a profoundly important concept summarized in a funny quote from a judge. Not everything fits into an established definition. And many definitions rely more on an agreed cultural consensus than objective qualifications. Virtually any concrete definition you can give of porn would also include material that is not porn.
And yet we're talking about the minimum defining feature of a Christmas Movie, whereby your synapses fire and file the memory of seeing it under "christmas movie" in your brain. Die Hard satisfies at least the minimum definition used in my brain, which goes something like this: "Happens at Christmas. Involves themes of unity/ brotherhood/ sisterhood/ community, and overcoming some form of adversity or setback to arrive at a profoundly satisfying and happy ending where Christmas as an event is one key important element and plot driver."
I'm not trying to argue whether die hard is or isn't one. More that the "I know it when I see it" isn't just an excuse to not define something. It's a necessary piece of nuance when discussing many topics and definitions.
There's a logical flaw with that argument. "I know it when I see it" as a statement means that a person's brain has identified specific patterns and qualifications to arrive at "knowing". It's very definable. When people don't agree on definitions, it's entirely because they use different patterns as the basis of filing something under that name.
Nuance is not the absense of definition. It's the increase of definition.
If you asked 1 million people what the definition of a christmas movie was, we would arrive at what the most common patterns of recognition would look like, with a few outliers. I am interested in what those 1 million people can agree on, which is entirely reasonable.
Now who's being ridiculous. Salad in a sandwich. Jeez.
The USDA uses the definition, "at least 35% cooked meat and no more than 50% bread" for closed sandwiches, and "at least 50% cooked meat" for open sandwiches.
Technically, in England, we do acknowledge cucumber "sandwiches" but I choose to defy my own country in this event. May the King forgive me.
It takes place during Christmas with Christmas themes, Christmas imagery and Christmas music. Like Home Alone.
It has more Christmas in it than "It's a Wonderful Life". I guess you're saying that's not a Christmas movie either. And neither is "White Christmas" then.
Do you have a robust set of rules to define what makes a Christmas movie?
Die hard has literally nothing to do with Xmas besides the fact that the criminals picked the Xmas party to break in cause they know there would be little to no people in the building
Just like Jingle all the ways subplot is getting the toy and being there for your family, the real story is Phil Hartman trying to bang every mom in the neighborhood
No it doesn't lmao. The whole thing is about a family during Xmas time leaving a kid at home. Christmas music is almost the entire soundtrack. They talk about Christmas. Kevin goes and visits Santa Claus and gets tic tacs.
Die hard has nothing to do with Xmas. Even the writer says it was picked as a story device and not a theme of the movie.
It has Christmas music, the main character is traveling for Christmas, takes place at a Christmas party, the terrorists’ timing is motivated by the fact that it’s Christmas, they reference Christmas many times, the main character puts a frickin Santa hat on a dead body and writes ho-ho-ho on it.
Die hard could exist without Christmas, and so could Home Alone, but they both have it as a setting and reference it often.
If they added Jingle Bells, Ho Ho Ho, Winter Wonderland and all wore Santa Hats in the music video then I'd consider it but that would definitely change the tone of the song.
Die Hard being a Christmas movie is a joke. Some people just take the joke way too far. Those people are sad.
It could be set on any other day and the plot and themes remain the same. All you need is an excuse why a company would be having a party you would bring your family to, and those happen all the time.
It's not a joke. We're serious. It's okay to disagree but don't try to be disingenuous.
And that argument is true for any movie plot that isn't directly focused around presents or Santa. If that's your line then you've got to nix a bunch of other popular Christmas movies including Home Alone. All you need is a family holiday.
Even "It's a Wonderful Life" isn't dependent on it being Christmas.
It's not a joke at all, if you're getting rid of Die Hard as an Xmas movie, then you're going to be getting rid of a lot of movies that people see as Xmas movies,
I would say subs, hoagies, grinders and the like are types of sandwiches and their bread functions very similar to a hotdog bun.
It's really hard to find a definition that includes a meatball sub as a sandwich but excludes hotdogs.
Give me a Kirkland sandwich roll(the one with corn meal dusted in it) as the bread for either. Both have a tomato sauce and the only remaining variable is the meatball vs frank.
Maybe you'll disagree with the premise, but I count a hotdog as a sandwich.
Just one of those things that were light hearted jokes that stick around long enough for the morons that take things too seriously to actually try to push they’re real. Charlie’s grandfather being a piece of shit is another one that people will go all in on, too.
Funny you should ask. I had this conversation yesterday. They are both dogs. People think Goofy is smarter because he talks, but he’s a bumbling buffoon who is constantly causing massive problems for the citizens of Toon Town. They’ve even got a whole ride that is supposed to be a relaxing ride through the park, but chaos ensues after Goofy can’t manage a simple track change. Pluto on the other hand is treated like a literal god by Mickey. Everything Pluto wants, Pluto gets. Pluto is also smart AF, constantly getting Mickey out of binds. Pluto is also a manipulative SOB, who will get Mickey to do whatever he wants. There is a whole cartoon where the traumatizes Mickey into thinking he shot and killed him (The Moose Hunt - 1931). So, both dogs, but Pluto’s superior intelligence allows him to be treated to a life of luxury while Goofy is almost killing everyone he comes into contact with.
I’m not convinced that the intelligence difference is the issue. Goofy walks on two legs while Pluto walks on four. Where else in the animal kingdom does there exist such a notable difference between two animals of the same species?
Die Hard is an Xmas movie because Xmas is essential to the plot. Xmas is why there was both a party to take hostage to get the FBI to cut the power as well as the opportunity to take them hostage because of the lowered security from everyone leaving for the holidays. That isn't even to mention how prominent Xmas is in the movie via names, songs, dialog, etc.
If Die Hard isn't a Christmas movie, then neither is Home Alone. Neither of the plots directly relate to Christmas other than it being the reason that people are in the places they are. Both are Christmas movies.
Edit: people are talking about the "Christmas miracle" of Kevin's family coming home when he wishes for it. I argue that that could have just been a generic wish/miracle without significantly altering the plot.
Yea, while I’ll argue Die hard is a Christmas movie with anyone. I don’t think saying it’s just as much of one as Home Alone would be a winning argument. Yea maybe it’s slap stick and tom and Jerry in nature but Catherine O'Hara trying to get back to her kid by Christmas and the people helping her is very Christmas vibes.
What makes it a Christmas movie though? IMO it's not just vibes, a Christmas movie needs a Christmas miracle, and in Home Alone Kevin believes a Christmas miracle happened. When in Die Hard does that happen?
I don’t think a Christmas movie needs someone to literally say “a miracle happened,” but even if you demand that, Die Hard still has them. The biggest one is the marriage John and Holly are basically finished at the start, and by the end of Christmas Eve they’re reconciled and a family again, with Holly reclaiming the McClane name. Al Powell gets one too: he’s been paralyzed by guilt for years after killing a kid and on Christmas Eve he finally redeems himself and saves lives. And John only comes to LA because it’s Christmas, hoping something might still be saved the fact that it actually is saved is the payoff.
They even say “looks like it’s going to take a miracle,” Hans Gruber responds on the radio, “It’s Christmas, Theo it’s the time of miracles” when trying to open the vault. Guess what? They got it open! A miracle! They all die later but still.
To start with the obvious, both take place during Christmas. Both give an impossible problem: a building of terrorists against one cop with his service side arm, and a wily eight year old against a pair of hardened criminals. And in both, the actual quest is the reunification of a scattered family. That's why John is in LA after all, and what the mom in Home Alone spends the entire movie doing.
Each film gives the hero unlikely allies. John Candy hears a sob story from a woman he doesn't know and thinks, 'If not now, then when?' and help's kevin's mom get home - and that's only after she navigates the nightmare of a last minute international return flight thanks to similar bending of the rules because its Christmas. McClaine has his wife, Powell, even Argyle to name just a few.
Both even have unlikely assistance by twists of fate. John's enemies arm with with exactly what he needs exactly when he most needs it. The weather, coincidence, and sheer incompetence of his foes mean that Kevin buys enough time for a neighbor he has no connection to to swoop in and save the day.
In the end, the unlikely hero manages to solve the impossible problem. Both are reunited by family thanks to allies who choose to be that little bit of Christmas magic, and both are saved by the subtle hand of something greater. Both have the hero ultimately undergoing their own Scrooge transformation. These are all common themes of a Christmas story.
A story with Christmas themes that takes place at Christmas has every right be called a Christmas Movie.
John McLane IS the Christmas miracle! If he had not been a fly in the ointment, a money in the wrench, and a pain in the ass then Hans Gruber's plan might have worked perfectly and all those people would have been blown up on the roof while the heist crew escaped in an ambulance.
But McLane got invited to the CHRISTMAS party and was there to save the day! Not only that, but through all the violence that followed John and Holly went home to their kids a happy couple again!
-e- look, I don't really care if you call die hard a christmas movie or not, that depends on the conversation. Which is my actual point, that it's absurd that people act as if there are strict definitions, like it's a math problem or something.
The only way you can say mockingbird isn't a halloween movie but die hard is a christmas movie, is if you acknowledge that DH is ''more about'' christmas than Mockingbird is about Halloween, at which point you have to acknowledge that the movies that are classical thought of as christmas movies are ''more about'' christmas than die hard. And you can draw the line in a way that DH is still a christmas movie, but you have to admit it's subjective
Die hard doesn't happen except at Christmas. Christmas is integral to the plot. If you want to make Halloween integral to the plot of To Kill a Mockingbird feel free. I won't stop you. You are free to see it as a Halloween movie. My opinion doesn't matter.
my point was just that it's absurd to argue about opinions as if they were facts, which is what people do in these discussions, and it's what youre doing. All arguments are constantly begging the question, because you can't arrive at the conclusion from arguments.
Everybody starts with the assumption that it's one or the other, and then argues why they think it. Which is fine except people get mad at it and then pretend they're objectively right, when really, people just like the movie and associate it with christmas.
I mean do you actually think THIS is the criteria for christmas movies? You can't conceive of calling something a christmas movie when christmas isn't essential to the plot? And what does that even mean, cause you can easily argue that christmas isn't as important to the plot of die hard as halloween is to Mockingbird, you can set that office party for other reasons, change a few unimportant elements, and it's still the same movie. Similar with Home Alone, you can write that plot for a summer vacation. Mockingbird needs Halloween, without that you'd have to do way more substantial rewrites.
on the flipside, do you think ANY movie where christmas plays an essential role is objectively a christmas movie? How about Cast Away? Lethal Weapon? Mean Girls lol. I'm sure there are many more
Again, that's just an example, I'm not actually arguing for these films being or not being in those categories, I'm just trying to show the absurdity of the argumentation.
Sure, but if you take out "for Christmas"... nothing changes. It's a guy trying to reconnect with his family, just because they are his family. How many films have been made with exactly that as the premise?
Corporate Christmas parties are inherently tied to year end closings and bonuses since most places close around Christmas. The whole point of Gruber's robbery was they extra cash on hand from their year end success.
He literally asks a mall Santa to bring back his family. Also, the whole side plot with his scary neighbor Marley whom Kevin talks to in a church on Christmas eve about his estranged son and whom Marley gets reunited with when the son visits him for Christmas day, at the same time as Kevin is reunited with his own family.
I really doubt anyone who actually thinks Christmas isn't a fundamental part of Home Alone has seen the movie in the past decade or knows what subtext is.
I will say, I think you can get you can get most of the way with removing all Christmas from the film, but the plot fails when trying to explain why not just the McAllister's but every other house on that street was empty at the same time. And also why Kevin's mom couldn't get a plane ticket, but OTOH, that wasn't really plot-critical, just funny.
The question isn't if Home Alone is a Christmas movie, it's whether it is as much a Christmas movie as Die Hard. Christmas is a fundamental part of Home Alone. It is not a fundamental part of Die Hard. Simple enough for you?
and believes they were brought back through the miracle of Christmas.
I guess I missed that part in all my times seeing the movie. I thought it was just generic magic. You could remove the christmas part and just make it a generic wish and it wouldn't change the plot at all.
In Home Alone there are many 'Christmas themes' and items present and it is a big talking point. He is even meeting someone in Santa clothes (the guy is working for Santa). Also the soundtrack underlines this in multiple occasions. I feel like it is way more present than in Die Hard.
Only wanted to point that difference out, in general I think gatekeeping the name 'Christmas movie' is dumb. Just watch whatever you want whenever you want lol
Die Hard’s score and soundtrack are all Christmas songs though. Even the music for building tension are just reworked holiday tunes if you listen closely.
Okay, but the characters in the film don't hear those songs. You know that, right? And because they cannot hear it, the music does not guide their actions or affect the plot.
If we slapped holiday jingles over Schindler's List, it doesn't suddenly become a Christmas movie.
Nahh. If Die Hard is not at Christmas there are several plot points that need to be revisited. Why is he in town? Why is there a big party at the office? Why is he at his wife’s office party (in my experience Christmas parties are the only ones attended by spouses).
Lethal Weapon takes place at Christmas time but it’s very easy to place it at any other time without changing anything else in the script.
Any movie can be rewritten to be about anything else. That is not the point I was making. The point is in LW, you need to rewrite 1 page. The one scene that is really Christmas specific can easily be replaced with another scene that delivers the same result and now the movie can be at any time of the year.
In Die Hard, if you remove Christmas, you need a reason that John is in the building after hours with all the staff (in particular the CEO). etc. There is no other workplace event that causes this scenario. As others have pointed out, you could use July 4. But in my experiences (I am Canadian) no workplace I ever worked at has ever had a Canada day event, at the office, after hours. I don't think I have literally ever met a co-workers spouse at a work event that was not a Christmas party.
Can you make 'effectively' the same movie without Christmas? Sure but you would have to rewrite a significant portion of it to make that work.
there are several plot points that need to be revisited.
...you only listed one plot point: Why is John attending a party at his wife's office?
He's there to reconcile with his wife. He could try to do that at any time of the year even without a party. If you need an excuse of a party, you could have it be a big contract they landed, or 4th of July Party, or just not have there be a party. The plan works as long as there's any excuse to just have this company present.
But all of this is incidental. The comment you were responding to said "Neither of the plots directly relate to Christmas other than it being the reason that people are in the places they are." Your response it to points out that Die Hard relates to Christmas because it's needed as "the reason that people are in the places they are."
This is a silly debate so please take this as light-hearted: A Christmas movie can't be defined just as "it's the explanation why a character is in a place." There's got to be something thematic to the holiday at least. Home Alone has that, Die Hard doesn't. For that matter films like Jumanji, Jarhead and Silver Linings Playbook have plot relevant Christmas gatherings/communications, and I wouldn't call them Christmas movies. And the book Die Hard is based on also just uses a Christmas Party as a reason to have people in one location, while being extremely un-Christmas themed. His daughter dies in that book as John fails to save her.
Also while this isn't dispositive, it's worth pointing out Home Alone came out before Christmas, and Die Hard came out in July.
My comment was mostly meant to debunk the claim that Lethal Weapon is also a Christmas movie. Been a while since I watched it but I think there is only one scene that is Christmas specific and you could easily replace that scene with the daughter having a birthday, or some other non present opening scene that serves the same purpose (Roger being uncomfortable with his daughter getting older)
But if you remove the Christmas party from Die Hard you end up rewriting a lot more scenes.
To me that is the difference. How much of the script do you have to rewrite.
He's there to reconcile with his wife. He could try to do that at any time of the year even without a party.
You could say that about virtually any Christmas story. Ebeneezer Scrooge could be visited by three ghosts and learn the error of his mindset at any time of year. George Bailey could contemplate suicide at any time of year.
Ask yourself: why is John McClane trying to reconcile with his wife? Answer: because it's Christmas and he doesn't want to disappoint his children. Christmas, in the non-religious sense 90% of us celebrate it, is fundamentally about families and loved ones gathering together and trying to put aside animosity and strife, and particularly about delighting children.
One of the reasons Die Hard is such a great movie is because it has a heart. It's about two people realising, through extreme adversity, that their love for each other is far stronger than their problems. Die Hard isn't a "family movie", but it is unquestionably about family, and it is a positive reaffirmation of the value of family. If that isn't the spirit of Christmas, I'm damned if I know what is.
why is John McClane trying to reconcile with his wife? Answer: because it's one kid's birthday and he doesn't want to disappoint them
See, that works just as well!
That's my real beef with the claim that Die Hard is a christmas film. It obviously is! But I can't find any plot-relevant point for it that can't be trivially removed in a way that affects nothing.
I saw a guy once insist that the gun-taped-to-his back trick critically depended on it being festive tape. Like, I agree that it's a christmas film, but that is some weak-sauce justification.
Die Hard also had a “Christmas Miracle”. It was when the FBI cut the power to the building unlocking the last lock to the vault, even is stated so directly. Christmas movie!
The ENTIRE PLOT of Die Hard is based off Nakatomi Plaza holding a Christmas party and the robbery occurring because the building is mostly empty and everyone is concentrated in one location, making hostage taking easy. And McClane was only there because it was Christmas. And his wife is called Holly.
It's definitely a theme. The music is Christmas music, there's Christmas imagery everywhere, he whistles "Jingle Bells" on the way in and repeatedly references Christmas.
Sure, and you could have Kevin ask the mall Easter Bunny to bring back his family, and Marley's son could be visiting his Father for the first time in years because it's Easter Sunday.
At some point you're replacing so many elements of the movie that relate to Christmas with vague analogues you might as well say A Christmas Carol isn't a Christmas movie because it could just happen on Easter instead.
You can say that about literally any movie ever. Christmas Vacation could have just been made "Easter Vacation".... thing is they weren't, they were made as Christmas Movies. You have the right do disagree, that is fine, but Home Alone is definitely a Christmas Movie.
Die Hard is a movie that takes place during Christmas season. To me there is a difference.
But Die Hard doesn't just take place during Christmas, a Christmas party is a major part of the plot. It's the entire reason civilians are in the building.
FTR I don’t really care if you think Die Hard is a Christmas movie. I personally consider it a blockbuster action movie that happens to take place during Christmas because as others have said you can make a few minor changes to the script and overall the movie would be the same.
I know you can say the same for Home Alone but the difference for me personally is that you can watch Die Hard any time of year and it’s great. Watching Home Alone in June just feels a little off.
Die Hard is one of the most Christmasy movies, ever. It's art.
When McClane sends the first dead terrorist down the elevator with a Santa hat on, that was Santa sending a present down the chimney.
Nakatomi Plaza is the Christmas Tree. McClane sending down the bomb was turning on the christmas lights. When the roof blows, it's the Christmas Star. The paper coming down is snow.
McClane's wife is named Holly.
Hand Gruber is the Grinch and becomes an ornament hanging off the tree, until he falls.
12 days of christmas? Twelve henchman terrorists- Karl, Tony, Franco, Fritz, Theo, Kristoff(hehe....Christ...offf), Eddie, Heinrich, Marco, Uli, Alexander, James.
"Die Hard is my favorite Christmas film" has become such an edgy thing to say. Coupe years ago it because the zeitgeist by people who never even watched it. Or had scene it once and then just thought it was cool to say.
Happening during Christmas has nothing to do with the story. It's just dumb.
You have it half right. It was definitely edgy annoying dudes who wouldn’t shut up about it. But not the pendulum has swung the other way and nobody is allowed to call it a Christmas movie without getting yelled at. It has always been a Christmas movie and the majority of people who disagree haven’t actually watched it. The entire plot and themes of the movie are based on the holiday. The movie takes place at a Christmas party, the main character is only in town to see his family on Christmas. They talk of miracles, and ho ho hos, and grinches. The soundtrack contains Christmas songs. The whole theme of the movie is about pushing through past differences to come together as a family.
Die Hard was released in 1988, 13 months before Belgian group Technotronic would release their iconic techno anthem Pump Up The Jam.
And two full years after the pilot of the sitcom Brush Strokes.
And ten years after the beginning of the sitcom Different Strokes.
Pump tit up!
*soft double-time hi hats begin*
🎶Pump up the jam, pump it up
While your feet are stomping🎶
Jesus Christ Powell....
🤣🤣🤣
I love her so much.
Lol, she's hilarious. Also, Die Hard is a Christmas movie and I will fucking DIE HARD on that hill!
I support you! The hill I will die on is that "Holiday Road" from the Vacation movies is NOT a Christmas song.
In the past few years more and more people have come out and said it's their favorite Christmas song. I've even started to hear it played on Christmas stations.
People have stated two reasons for this:
1) It's in the Christmas vacation movie
Not only is it NOT in that movie, it is the only Vacation movie that it isn't in! It was written specifically for the original movie and is in Europe, Vegas and the recent Vacation reboot. But it skipped over Christmas Vacation and they made the song for the intro sequence instead.
2) It's called "Holiday Road", it has the word "holiday" in it. It is about the holidays!
Guess what "holiday" is another word for? Vacation! It's about going on a road trip vacation, which makes perfect sense considering it was made for the first movie which is about taking a road trip across the country on a vacation. If every song about vacations is a Christmas song, is Vacation by The Go-Gos a Christmas song? If every song with the word "holiday" in the title is a Christmas song, is Holiday by Green Day a Christmas song?
It makes absolutely no sense, and yet some people still insist on it being a Christmas song.
Die Hard being a Christmas movie and the merits of a hotdog being a sandwich are two arguments I like to think only stupid people have, but then someone starts that conversation and I end up in the middle of it.
I don't understand how it can even be a debate for either. A hotdog is meat between bread. That's a sandwich.
And Die Hard is obviously a Christmas movie. The only people who think otherwise are those who haven't seen it in ages.
Also, the Earth is round.
If your definition of sandwich is "meat between bread" then a schnitzel is a sandwich.
Defining sandwich as "filling between slices of bread" would exclude a lot of the more absurd technical 'sandwiches' like burritos, calzones, pop tarts, and most hot dogs. But I'm sure there's some other food that's filling between slices of bread but clearly not what people think of when they hear "sandwich".
if you separate the hotdog bun does it become sammich? basically the same configuration as a hamburger and that's sammich for sure
Yes.
Calzones aren't sandwiches, they are enclosed in bread, thus making them a dumpling
Cereal in milk is gazpacho
It would also exclude subs.
Ye exactly. I’m pretty pure subway sandwiches make sandwiches.
According to that a philly cheese steak isn't a sandwich because it isn't between two slices, it's one sliced bun just like a hot dog.
Excuse me but what the fuck are you talking about? Hotdogs are tacos, not sandwiches, and I will fight anyone who says otherwise
There's a place near me that actually make a schnitzel sandwich and it's fantastic
What about a meat-bread-meat sandwich?
A hot dog is still a hot dog even without the bun. Sandwich meat is not. Not a sandwich.
Die Hard is a movie that takes place at Christmas, but isn’t truly about Christmas the way Christmas movies are.
The earth is round, but those two are indeed debates.
A hot dog is the prepared result. The meat only part of a hot dog is called a frank or weiner.
Die Hard takes place during Christmas, has Christmas-centric plot themes and dialog, has Christmas music, and contains scenes that feature Christmas iconography.
All that said, people are free to draw their own conclusions, because it honestly doesn't affect me.
I disagree with the wiener not being called a hot dog, but can go either way on Die Hard really. Point is, there’s arguments to be made for either side.
If you asked for a hot dog and someone handed you a wiener, would you have received what you asked for?
Deadpool is a Christmas movie.
I don't remember there being much Christmas in Deadpool.
That's cuz he only lets Vanessa peg him.
On the one hand, you could remove all mention and displays of the holiday from the film, and the plot wouldn't really change.
On the other hand: That same logic could be used to declare Home Alone not a Christmas movie.
If die hard isn’t a Christmas movie then neither is home alone. Home alone isn’t about Christmas and could have been an almost identical movie with the family leaving for summer vacation or spring break.
And if a Christmas movie has to be ABOUT Christmas, then It's a Wonderful Life sure as shit isn't a Christmas movie, either. Hell, Christmas is more integral to the plot of Die Hard than it is to It's a Wonderful Life.
And neither would White Christmas be... and that has Christmas in the TITLE!
Saying home alone isn't about Christmas is so fucking stupid lmfao
If die hard isn’t a Christmas movie then neither is home alone. Home alone isn’t about Christmas and could have been an almost identical movie with the family leaving for summer vacation or spring break.
That's not even the ace card, It's a Wonderful Life would be gone too.
Pretty much any movie without Santa in it.
Die Hard doesn't happen without Xmas, it's an Xmas movie.
I mean... it really only would take minimal alterations to the script. Instead of a holiday party, it's celebrating the opening of the Nakatomi office in the new building. Remove or swap out any holiday-themed props (like the festive packing tape), and omit the handful of mentions of the holiday from the dialog.
https://imsdb.com/scripts/Die-Hard.html
Search for "holiday" or "christmas", and it's nearly all background scenery or platitudes. The only remotely bit of plot-affecting holiday dialog was:
Name the minimum key defining traits of a movie that makes it a Christmas movie.
It’s like porn, you know it when you see it (SFW)
This feels awfully like trying to get out of defining something.
It's a profoundly important concept summarized in a funny quote from a judge. Not everything fits into an established definition. And many definitions rely more on an agreed cultural consensus than objective qualifications. Virtually any concrete definition you can give of porn would also include material that is not porn.
And yet we're talking about the minimum defining feature of a Christmas Movie, whereby your synapses fire and file the memory of seeing it under "christmas movie" in your brain. Die Hard satisfies at least the minimum definition used in my brain, which goes something like this: "Happens at Christmas. Involves themes of unity/ brotherhood/ sisterhood/ community, and overcoming some form of adversity or setback to arrive at a profoundly satisfying and happy ending where Christmas as an event is one key important element and plot driver."
Die Hard aces this minimum without effort.
I'm not trying to argue whether die hard is or isn't one. More that the "I know it when I see it" isn't just an excuse to not define something. It's a necessary piece of nuance when discussing many topics and definitions.
There's a logical flaw with that argument. "I know it when I see it" as a statement means that a person's brain has identified specific patterns and qualifications to arrive at "knowing". It's very definable. When people don't agree on definitions, it's entirely because they use different patterns as the basis of filing something under that name.
Nuance is not the absense of definition. It's the increase of definition.
If you asked 1 million people what the definition of a christmas movie was, we would arrive at what the most common patterns of recognition would look like, with a few outliers. I am interested in what those 1 million people can agree on, which is entirely reasonable.
You are correct and anyone who argues against you is but a fool!
Your definition of a sandwich excludes salad sandwiches
Now who's being ridiculous. Salad in a sandwich. Jeez.
Technically, in England, we do acknowledge cucumber "sandwiches" but I choose to defy my own country in this event. May the King forgive me.
But is a corndog a sandwich?
Bruce disagrees.
He's an actor. Both of you writers say it's a Christmas movie. And they wrote the movie!
Edit: Also, he's joking. He laughs and says it is "a Bruce Willis movie".
Hard disagree. Just because a movie takes place during Christmas, that does not a Christmas movie make.
It takes place during Christmas with Christmas themes, Christmas imagery and Christmas music. Like Home Alone.
It has more Christmas in it than "It's a Wonderful Life". I guess you're saying that's not a Christmas movie either. And neither is "White Christmas" then.
Do you have a robust set of rules to define what makes a Christmas movie?
Die hard has literally nothing to do with Xmas besides the fact that the criminals picked the Xmas party to break in cause they know there would be little to no people in the building
I'm pretty sure the core premise of the film is a father trying to reunite his family for Christmas.
The terrorists taking over Nakatomi Plaza is just a minor subplot
Just like Jingle all the ways subplot is getting the toy and being there for your family, the real story is Phil Hartman trying to bang every mom in the neighborhood
Exactly!
Same goes for Home Alone. Not a Christmas movie?
No it doesn't lmao. The whole thing is about a family during Xmas time leaving a kid at home. Christmas music is almost the entire soundtrack. They talk about Christmas. Kevin goes and visits Santa Claus and gets tic tacs.
Die hard has nothing to do with Xmas. Even the writer says it was picked as a story device and not a theme of the movie.
It has Christmas music, the main character is traveling for Christmas, takes place at a Christmas party, the terrorists’ timing is motivated by the fact that it’s Christmas, they reference Christmas many times, the main character puts a frickin Santa hat on a dead body and writes ho-ho-ho on it.
Die hard could exist without Christmas, and so could Home Alone, but they both have it as a setting and reference it often.
All the music, the reason he's there and that key pieces of dialogue.
Hell Xmas tape is key to the ending.
"Brick" by Ben Folds Five is a Christmas song too.
If they added Jingle Bells, Ho Ho Ho, Winter Wonderland and all wore Santa Hats in the music video then I'd consider it but that would definitely change the tone of the song.
Die Hard being a Christmas movie is a joke. Some people just take the joke way too far. Those people are sad.
It could be set on any other day and the plot and themes remain the same. All you need is an excuse why a company would be having a party you would bring your family to, and those happen all the time.
It's not a joke. We're serious. It's okay to disagree but don't try to be disingenuous.
And that argument is true for any movie plot that isn't directly focused around presents or Santa. If that's your line then you've got to nix a bunch of other popular Christmas movies including Home Alone. All you need is a family holiday.
Even "It's a Wonderful Life" isn't dependent on it being Christmas.
It's not a joke at all, if you're getting rid of Die Hard as an Xmas movie, then you're going to be getting rid of a lot of movies that people see as Xmas movies,
A hot dog is meat within bread, not between it, if anything it’s a pocket.
I would say subs, hoagies, grinders and the like are types of sandwiches and their bread functions very similar to a hotdog bun.
It's really hard to find a definition that includes a meatball sub as a sandwich but excludes hotdogs.
Give me a Kirkland sandwich roll(the one with corn meal dusted in it) as the bread for either. Both have a tomato sauce and the only remaining variable is the meatball vs frank.
Maybe you'll disagree with the premise, but I count a hotdog as a sandwich.
But that’s cobblers. Hot dog buns are not cut in twain.
A sandwich has to have two distinct pieces of bread, not one.
A it dog is, at best, a Taco.
See cube rule
Just one of those things that were light hearted jokes that stick around long enough for the morons that take things too seriously to actually try to push they’re real. Charlie’s grandfather being a piece of shit is another one that people will go all in on, too.
You're goddamn right Grandpa Joe is a piece of shit (at least in the 1970s film, he's better in the 2000s remake).
The best take I ever saw was “we all know it’s a Christmas movie. You’re just the dullest person at this party.”
Since you seem to be knowledgeable about such things, if Pluto is Mickey Mouse’s dog and walks on all fours, then what the hell is Goofy?
Funny you should ask. I had this conversation yesterday. They are both dogs. People think Goofy is smarter because he talks, but he’s a bumbling buffoon who is constantly causing massive problems for the citizens of Toon Town. They’ve even got a whole ride that is supposed to be a relaxing ride through the park, but chaos ensues after Goofy can’t manage a simple track change. Pluto on the other hand is treated like a literal god by Mickey. Everything Pluto wants, Pluto gets. Pluto is also smart AF, constantly getting Mickey out of binds. Pluto is also a manipulative SOB, who will get Mickey to do whatever he wants. There is a whole cartoon where the traumatizes Mickey into thinking he shot and killed him (The Moose Hunt - 1931). So, both dogs, but Pluto’s superior intelligence allows him to be treated to a life of luxury while Goofy is almost killing everyone he comes into contact with.
I’m not convinced that the intelligence difference is the issue. Goofy walks on two legs while Pluto walks on four. Where else in the animal kingdom does there exist such a notable difference between two animals of the same species?
Die Hard is an Xmas movie because Xmas is essential to the plot. Xmas is why there was both a party to take hostage to get the FBI to cut the power as well as the opportunity to take them hostage because of the lowered security from everyone leaving for the holidays. That isn't even to mention how prominent Xmas is in the movie via names, songs, dialog, etc.
I'm standing here in a cave. Not because I'm lost or I think I'm a wolf, but because my producers told me to do so.
Cunk has spoken: The debate is over.
Now I have a machine gun. Ho-ho-ho. It’s the best movie ever and best Christmas movie ever all rolled into one
“Singing”
Define singing.
If Die Hard isn't a Christmas movie, then neither is Home Alone. Neither of the plots directly relate to Christmas other than it being the reason that people are in the places they are. Both are Christmas movies.
Edit: people are talking about the "Christmas miracle" of Kevin's family coming home when he wishes for it. I argue that that could have just been a generic wish/miracle without significantly altering the plot.
Wtf are you talking about? Kevin thinks he made his family dissappear and believes they were brought back through the miracle of Christmas.
Yea, while I’ll argue Die hard is a Christmas movie with anyone. I don’t think saying it’s just as much of one as Home Alone would be a winning argument. Yea maybe it’s slap stick and tom and Jerry in nature but Catherine O'Hara trying to get back to her kid by Christmas and the people helping her is very Christmas vibes.
What makes it a Christmas movie though? IMO it's not just vibes, a Christmas movie needs a Christmas miracle, and in Home Alone Kevin believes a Christmas miracle happened. When in Die Hard does that happen?
When the FBI cut the power, turning off the electromagnetic lock! They even directly call it a Christmas miracle in the film!
Ode To Joy movement plays
Next time I’m arguing Die Hard is a Christmas movie, I want u/udat42 in the Fox hole with me
*Hans Gruber voice * “You wanted a miracle? I give you the F…B…I.”
Hans Gruber specifically references this though. "It's Christmas, Theo. It's the time for miracles."
I don’t think a Christmas movie needs someone to literally say “a miracle happened,” but even if you demand that, Die Hard still has them. The biggest one is the marriage John and Holly are basically finished at the start, and by the end of Christmas Eve they’re reconciled and a family again, with Holly reclaiming the McClane name. Al Powell gets one too: he’s been paralyzed by guilt for years after killing a kid and on Christmas Eve he finally redeems himself and saves lives. And John only comes to LA because it’s Christmas, hoping something might still be saved the fact that it actually is saved is the payoff.
They even say “looks like it’s going to take a miracle,” Hans Gruber responds on the radio, “It’s Christmas, Theo it’s the time of miracles” when trying to open the vault. Guess what? They got it open! A miracle! They all die later but still.
When Carl Winslow over comes his fears and draws his revolver to shoot and kill Karl once and for all.
Carl Winslow? lol
Carl. Powell. Whichever lol
To start with the obvious, both take place during Christmas. Both give an impossible problem: a building of terrorists against one cop with his service side arm, and a wily eight year old against a pair of hardened criminals. And in both, the actual quest is the reunification of a scattered family. That's why John is in LA after all, and what the mom in Home Alone spends the entire movie doing.
Each film gives the hero unlikely allies. John Candy hears a sob story from a woman he doesn't know and thinks, 'If not now, then when?' and help's kevin's mom get home - and that's only after she navigates the nightmare of a last minute international return flight thanks to similar bending of the rules because its Christmas. McClaine has his wife, Powell, even Argyle to name just a few.
Both even have unlikely assistance by twists of fate. John's enemies arm with with exactly what he needs exactly when he most needs it. The weather, coincidence, and sheer incompetence of his foes mean that Kevin buys enough time for a neighbor he has no connection to to swoop in and save the day.
In the end, the unlikely hero manages to solve the impossible problem. Both are reunited by family thanks to allies who choose to be that little bit of Christmas magic, and both are saved by the subtle hand of something greater. Both have the hero ultimately undergoing their own Scrooge transformation. These are all common themes of a Christmas story.
A story with Christmas themes that takes place at Christmas has every right be called a Christmas Movie.
John McLane IS the Christmas miracle! If he had not been a fly in the ointment, a money in the wrench, and a pain in the ass then Hans Gruber's plan might have worked perfectly and all those people would have been blown up on the roof while the heist crew escaped in an ambulance.
But McLane got invited to the CHRISTMAS party and was there to save the day! Not only that, but through all the violence that followed John and Holly went home to their kids a happy couple again!
John McLean? McClane! You know..of the New York Police Department? A fly in the ointment, a monkey in the wrench, a pain in the ass.
Hmm you are right. I have reversed the autocorrect.
That's the only response id accept. John himself was the miracle. But I still wouldn't consider it enough.
Theo: This last one is going to take a miracle.
Hans Gruber: It's Christmas, Theo. It's the time of miracles. So be of good cheer...
And McClane is only there because he traveled to see his family on Christmas and the robbery only can happen as planned on Christmas eve.
It set at a CHRISTMAS PARTY.
That's a setting. Not a plot theme.
Kevin believes Santa brought his family back to him.
So even if I agreed with you it was only setting, a Christmas setting being vital to the plot is enough to make it a Christmas film.
If it was a TV show it would be a Christmas episode. That's about as far as I think about it.
That’s actually a great way to think about it.
Do you think To Kill a Mockingbird is a halloween movie?
It's a court room drama because it's SETTING is a court room and is vital to the plot.
so then die hard is an action movie.
-e- look, I don't really care if you call die hard a christmas movie or not, that depends on the conversation. Which is my actual point, that it's absurd that people act as if there are strict definitions, like it's a math problem or something.
The only way you can say mockingbird isn't a halloween movie but die hard is a christmas movie, is if you acknowledge that DH is ''more about'' christmas than Mockingbird is about Halloween, at which point you have to acknowledge that the movies that are classical thought of as christmas movies are ''more about'' christmas than die hard. And you can draw the line in a way that DH is still a christmas movie, but you have to admit it's subjective
Then Home Alone is a family comedy.
Die hard doesn't happen except at Christmas. Christmas is integral to the plot. If you want to make Halloween integral to the plot of To Kill a Mockingbird feel free. I won't stop you. You are free to see it as a Halloween movie. My opinion doesn't matter.
my point was just that it's absurd to argue about opinions as if they were facts, which is what people do in these discussions, and it's what youre doing. All arguments are constantly begging the question, because you can't arrive at the conclusion from arguments.
Everybody starts with the assumption that it's one or the other, and then argues why they think it. Which is fine except people get mad at it and then pretend they're objectively right, when really, people just like the movie and associate it with christmas.
I mean do you actually think THIS is the criteria for christmas movies? You can't conceive of calling something a christmas movie when christmas isn't essential to the plot? And what does that even mean, cause you can easily argue that christmas isn't as important to the plot of die hard as halloween is to Mockingbird, you can set that office party for other reasons, change a few unimportant elements, and it's still the same movie. Similar with Home Alone, you can write that plot for a summer vacation. Mockingbird needs Halloween, without that you'd have to do way more substantial rewrites.
on the flipside, do you think ANY movie where christmas plays an essential role is objectively a christmas movie? How about Cast Away? Lethal Weapon? Mean Girls lol. I'm sure there are many more
Again, that's just an example, I'm not actually arguing for these films being or not being in those categories, I'm just trying to show the absurdity of the argumentation.
Isn't the main plot theme a father trying to reunite with his family for Christmas?
Sure, but if you take out "for Christmas"... nothing changes. It's a guy trying to reconnect with his family, just because they are his family. How many films have been made with exactly that as the premise?
Corporate Christmas parties are inherently tied to year end closings and bonuses since most places close around Christmas. The whole point of Gruber's robbery was they extra cash on hand from their year end success.
Bro that's like one line in the film
If that's the only link, it's a bit weak.
Unlike Kevin, Hans actually got a 'Christmas miracle'; courtesy of the FBI.
He literally asks a mall Santa to bring back his family. Also, the whole side plot with his scary neighbor Marley whom Kevin talks to in a church on Christmas eve about his estranged son and whom Marley gets reunited with when the son visits him for Christmas day, at the same time as Kevin is reunited with his own family.
I really doubt anyone who actually thinks Christmas isn't a fundamental part of Home Alone has seen the movie in the past decade or knows what subtext is.
I will say, I think you can get you can get most of the way with removing all Christmas from the film, but the plot fails when trying to explain why not just the McAllister's but every other house on that street was empty at the same time. And also why Kevin's mom couldn't get a plane ticket, but OTOH, that wasn't really plot-critical, just funny.
Read what I wrote again, what I was replying to - then try to work out how much of what you replied with is pointless. I'll say it's about 100% of it.
Noone thinks that Home Alone isn't a Christmas movie. 🙄
The question isn't if Home Alone is a Christmas movie, it's whether it is as much a Christmas movie as Die Hard. Christmas is a fundamental part of Home Alone. It is not a fundamental part of Die Hard. Simple enough for you?
Strawman idiot... 🙄
And Hans Gruber was being a grinch
And Santa brought McLean a machine gun. Ho-Ho-Ho.
I guess I missed that part in all my times seeing the movie. I thought it was just generic magic. You could remove the christmas part and just make it a generic wish and it wouldn't change the plot at all.
E.g., Liar, Liar was a birthday wish.
Hans Gruber uses a Christmas miracle that Theo needed to open the sixth lock of a safe.
And Die Hard has the line "it's Christmas Leo, a time for miracles."
Kevin also is going to find out it wasn't a miracle, plus you could have set it around his birthday and he makes a birthday wish.
And neither is Love Actually. Yes, it features a lot of Christmas but it isn't about Christmas. It's about love, actually.
and weight shaming
It’s mostly about “Fucking the help”
In Home Alone there are many 'Christmas themes' and items present and it is a big talking point. He is even meeting someone in Santa clothes (the guy is working for Santa). Also the soundtrack underlines this in multiple occasions. I feel like it is way more present than in Die Hard. Only wanted to point that difference out, in general I think gatekeeping the name 'Christmas movie' is dumb. Just watch whatever you want whenever you want lol
Die Hard’s score and soundtrack are all Christmas songs though. Even the music for building tension are just reworked holiday tunes if you listen closely.
Oh I didn't know that, long ago that I saw that movie. in that case I understand this discussion even less haha
Don't you got any Christmas music? This IS Christmas Music!
Okay, but the characters in the film don't hear those songs. You know that, right? And because they cannot hear it, the music does not guide their actions or affect the plot.
If we slapped holiday jingles over Schindler's List, it doesn't suddenly become a Christmas movie.
Is Lethal Weapon a christmas movie?
Gremlins would like to enter the chat…
Gremlins is 100% a Christmas movie.
Gizmo is literally a Christmas present!
Eyes wide shut is a Christmas movie
Nice. I was able to squeeze Raiders of the Lost Ark through the door of christmas movies because it had snow, god, and miracles.
That’s a reach, but “Life of Brian” is definable an Easter Movie even though it starts at Christmas.
Don't forget Lethal Weapon.
Nahh. If Die Hard is not at Christmas there are several plot points that need to be revisited. Why is he in town? Why is there a big party at the office? Why is he at his wife’s office party (in my experience Christmas parties are the only ones attended by spouses).
Lethal Weapon takes place at Christmas time but it’s very easy to place it at any other time without changing anything else in the script.
Die Hard could easily be rewritten to not take place around Christmas and it would be essentially the same movie.
Any movie can be rewritten to be about anything else. That is not the point I was making. The point is in LW, you need to rewrite 1 page. The one scene that is really Christmas specific can easily be replaced with another scene that delivers the same result and now the movie can be at any time of the year.
In Die Hard, if you remove Christmas, you need a reason that John is in the building after hours with all the staff (in particular the CEO). etc. There is no other workplace event that causes this scenario. As others have pointed out, you could use July 4. But in my experiences (I am Canadian) no workplace I ever worked at has ever had a Canada day event, at the office, after hours. I don't think I have literally ever met a co-workers spouse at a work event that was not a Christmas party.
Can you make 'effectively' the same movie without Christmas? Sure but you would have to rewrite a significant portion of it to make that work.
This is what I'm saying. The plot heavily revolves around it being Christmas.
...you only listed one plot point: Why is John attending a party at his wife's office?
He's there to reconcile with his wife. He could try to do that at any time of the year even without a party. If you need an excuse of a party, you could have it be a big contract they landed, or 4th of July Party, or just not have there be a party. The plan works as long as there's any excuse to just have this company present.
But all of this is incidental. The comment you were responding to said "Neither of the plots directly relate to Christmas other than it being the reason that people are in the places they are." Your response it to points out that Die Hard relates to Christmas because it's needed as "the reason that people are in the places they are."
This is a silly debate so please take this as light-hearted: A Christmas movie can't be defined just as "it's the explanation why a character is in a place." There's got to be something thematic to the holiday at least. Home Alone has that, Die Hard doesn't. For that matter films like Jumanji, Jarhead and Silver Linings Playbook have plot relevant Christmas gatherings/communications, and I wouldn't call them Christmas movies. And the book Die Hard is based on also just uses a Christmas Party as a reason to have people in one location, while being extremely un-Christmas themed. His daughter dies in that book as John fails to save her.
Also while this isn't dispositive, it's worth pointing out Home Alone came out before Christmas, and Die Hard came out in July.
My comment was mostly meant to debunk the claim that Lethal Weapon is also a Christmas movie. Been a while since I watched it but I think there is only one scene that is Christmas specific and you could easily replace that scene with the daughter having a birthday, or some other non present opening scene that serves the same purpose (Roger being uncomfortable with his daughter getting older)
But if you remove the Christmas party from Die Hard you end up rewriting a lot more scenes.
To me that is the difference. How much of the script do you have to rewrite.
Nobody said remove the christmas party, just have it be a party.
You could say that about virtually any Christmas story. Ebeneezer Scrooge could be visited by three ghosts and learn the error of his mindset at any time of year. George Bailey could contemplate suicide at any time of year.
Ask yourself: why is John McClane trying to reconcile with his wife? Answer: because it's Christmas and he doesn't want to disappoint his children. Christmas, in the non-religious sense 90% of us celebrate it, is fundamentally about families and loved ones gathering together and trying to put aside animosity and strife, and particularly about delighting children.
One of the reasons Die Hard is such a great movie is because it has a heart. It's about two people realising, through extreme adversity, that their love for each other is far stronger than their problems. Die Hard isn't a "family movie", but it is unquestionably about family, and it is a positive reaffirmation of the value of family. If that isn't the spirit of Christmas, I'm damned if I know what is.
See, that works just as well!
That's my real beef with the claim that Die Hard is a christmas film. It obviously is! But I can't find any plot-relevant point for it that can't be trivially removed in a way that affects nothing.
I saw a guy once insist that the gun-taped-to-his back trick critically depended on it being festive tape. Like, I agree that it's a christmas film, but that is some weak-sauce justification.
And Batman returns, since the flim takes place around Christmas
Don't forget First Blood. Also a Christmas movie.
By that logic, Rosemary’s Baby is a Christmas movie
That nativity scene was somethin' else!
Die hard is more of an Easter movie. Karl Vreski was hanged, died, and rose again in the 3rd act.
Could the same be said for Trading Places
Die Hard also had a “Christmas Miracle”. It was when the FBI cut the power to the building unlocking the last lock to the vault, even is stated so directly. Christmas movie!
But wouldn't the FBI have done the exact same thing any other time of year as well? That's not a christmas-dependent plot development.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OFcOWALMp0
In fact, Liar, Liar had that, but as a birthday wish.
Home Alone IS directly related to Christmas.
The ENTIRE PLOT is based off Kevin missing his families’ Christmas vacation.
The ENTIRE PLOT of Die Hard is based off Nakatomi Plaza holding a Christmas party and the robbery occurring because the building is mostly empty and everyone is concentrated in one location, making hostage taking easy. And McClane was only there because it was Christmas. And his wife is called Holly.
Christmas is used as a plot device, not a theme.
It's definitely a theme. The music is Christmas music, there's Christmas imagery everywhere, he whistles "Jingle Bells" on the way in and repeatedly references Christmas.
What do you think a theme is?
The ENTIRE PLOT of Diehard takes place during a Christmas party...
It could be changed to Spring break and the plot would be the same.
Kevin attending a church choir's annual Spring Break performance would've required some suspension of disbelief.
Could be an Easter concert or just a spring concert.
Sure, and you could have Kevin ask the mall Easter Bunny to bring back his family, and Marley's son could be visiting his Father for the first time in years because it's Easter Sunday.
At some point you're replacing so many elements of the movie that relate to Christmas with vague analogues you might as well say A Christmas Carol isn't a Christmas movie because it could just happen on Easter instead.
You can say that about literally any movie ever. Christmas Vacation could have just been made "Easter Vacation".... thing is they weren't, they were made as Christmas Movies. You have the right do disagree, that is fine, but Home Alone is definitely a Christmas Movie.
Die Hard is a movie that takes place during Christmas season. To me there is a difference.
But Die Hard doesn't just take place during Christmas, a Christmas party is a major part of the plot. It's the entire reason civilians are in the building.
Is it the fact that it's a party or the fact that it's a christmas party that is most relevant to the plot?
FTR I don’t really care if you think Die Hard is a Christmas movie. I personally consider it a blockbuster action movie that happens to take place during Christmas because as others have said you can make a few minor changes to the script and overall the movie would be the same.
I know you can say the same for Home Alone but the difference for me personally is that you can watch Die Hard any time of year and it’s great. Watching Home Alone in June just feels a little off.
You're 100% right, neither plot directly relates to Christmas, which is why neither one is a Christmas movie.
If that's your standard for what makes a "Christmas movie", then yeah.
Well if those aren't Christmas movies, then you're left with very few good Christmas movies tbh
Pretty much all the movies with a main character being Santa or someone's Christmas going wrong. There's quite a few of those, tbh.
Die Hard is one of the most Christmasy movies, ever. It's art.
When McClane sends the first dead terrorist down the elevator with a Santa hat on, that was Santa sending a present down the chimney.
Nakatomi Plaza is the Christmas Tree. McClane sending down the bomb was turning on the christmas lights. When the roof blows, it's the Christmas Star. The paper coming down is snow.
McClane's wife is named Holly.
Hand Gruber is the Grinch and becomes an ornament hanging off the tree, until he falls.
12 days of christmas? Twelve henchman terrorists- Karl, Tony, Franco, Fritz, Theo, Kristoff(hehe....Christ...offf), Eddie, Heinrich, Marco, Uli, Alexander, James.
She’s not wrong tho…in a Cunk sort of way
The cranberry sauce bit got me. Could also be lingonberry!
I’m saving this to preemptively share to any naysayers this year. Totally a Christmas movie.
You realize she’s making fun of people claiming it’s a Christmas movie, right?
leathal weapon is a better christmas movie.I have a Power point presentation i show to people proving so
Well, let’s see it.
Yes. They can't just say that and then not deliver.
My favorite Christmas movie!
"Die Hard is my favorite Christmas film" has become such an edgy thing to say. Coupe years ago it because the zeitgeist by people who never even watched it. Or had scene it once and then just thought it was cool to say.
Happening during Christmas has nothing to do with the story. It's just dumb.
You have it half right. It was definitely edgy annoying dudes who wouldn’t shut up about it. But not the pendulum has swung the other way and nobody is allowed to call it a Christmas movie without getting yelled at. It has always been a Christmas movie and the majority of people who disagree haven’t actually watched it. The entire plot and themes of the movie are based on the holiday. The movie takes place at a Christmas party, the main character is only in town to see his family on Christmas. They talk of miracles, and ho ho hos, and grinches. The soundtrack contains Christmas songs. The whole theme of the movie is about pushing through past differences to come together as a family.
Christmas in the time of Dickens was ghost stories. That's what Christmas stories were.
Who says that the kind of people who watch the Hallmark channel get to decide what a Christmas movie is?
My favorite Christmas movie is Hereditary because it is also about bringing And otherworldly King onto planet Earth for the benefit of his followers.
Hail Paimon
Christmas or not this movie rocks.
If Die Hard is a Christmas movie (and I believe it is) then so is Lethal Weapon.
Someone compared the people who consider Die Hard a Christmas movie to the folks in the 2000s who made bacon a part of their personality.
I think you're half right but it's the people who argue against it being one who are like that.
If Die Hard isn't one then how many other movies can we remove from the Christmas arena, it's just going to be movies with Santa.
Die Hard is not a Christmas movie since it was released in the summer as an action movie, Christmas movies are not released in the summer.
It isn't.
However, Die Hard 2 is a Christmas movie.
Who cares?
Any excuse to see Bruce Willis in action is a good one. Especially now. Stay Strong, Bruno!!
She looks like she previously managed an IT department... well a small one anyway... really only a crew so to say...