She’s in the comments claiming the polio vaccine isn’t what almost eradicated polio and that vaccines cause chronic illnesses. She won’t listen to reason
Please do not say that too loudly :') I was used to insulin being free in my country for the past 11 years and then all of the sudden BAM, I have to pay and I'm genuinelly scared for the future even if so far, the price is miniscule
And because people aren't dying from illnesses that would've killed them before vaccination we're now finding out about chronic conditions that happen when the illness isn't enough to kill you. It's the whole survival bias thing all over again. Same sort of thing with how cancer numbers are going up- people didn't often live long enough to get cancer before vaccines.
Cancer rates are going up across all demographics, including infants. Young adults are getting more types of cancer that we didn't even screen for until people were at least 45. Ironically for antivaxxers, mRNAvaccines are currently our best hope for curing cancer.
Also, medical professionals are better at diagnosing things and are less likely to just assume you have hysteria or something. I know that kind of thing still happens. It has happened to me. But it used to be endemic to the medical community.
One, aging populations increase chronic disease prevalence because risk rises with age, two, saying chronic illness is at an 'all-time high' refers to modern historical data... most chronic diagnoses are a result of the modern disease framework epidemiology refined in the late 1900s. COPD wasn't a thing until 1965!
Like how when the army started using helmets, it increased the number of head injuries, because before that they wouldn't be head injuries; they'd just be fatalities.
Or that diagram of the common areas damaged on returning war planes. Lots of holes in the wings and tails, very few around the cockpit or engines. When you understand what you're looking at, it's kinda chilling.
Vaccines actually are expensive in the US, $80-$500 per dose is typical. Insurance is required by the ACA to cover them fully. Years ago, my family had to use the vaccines for children program vouchers because our crap insurance wouldn't cover our childhood vaccines. We would go in for an appointment for my brother and I and the bill would be over $500.
Insurance ia required to cover vaccines recommended by ACIP not ACA...which unfortunately has been gutted and they have begun rolling back recommendations
Survivorship bias for all the kids killed by polio, measles, and even just the flu back in the day. Even as recently as 2020 remember how many people died from COVID and COVID related complications before the vaccines started rolling out.
The number of shots is more but the dosage is significantly less and much of the "health" issues cited by these assholes has more to do with our sedentary lifestyle and overly processed foods.
You know which kids can get chronic conditions? The ones who survive an infection that they could’ve avoided entirely with a vax.
My first sign language instructor was deafened as a boy because of measles, many years before there was a vax for it. My Mom described blackout curtains that families in the neighborhood would pass from one family to another, as needed, to protect kids with measles from eye damage due to too much light.
Or the kids could get something REALLY chronic from measles, polio, and more: DEATH.
We’re going to end up with bunches of innocent kids in graveyards because their parents are anti-science dingdongs. It’s infuriating.
My son (a cat) has chronic conditions due to a vaccine preventable illness he contracted in kittenhood too! He was too young to have started the FVRCP vaccine series yet and contracted panleukopenia.
Getting a serious illness as a youngster (of any species) can lead to serious life-long consequences and these antivaxx folks seem to forget that.
And some of these same dipshidiots are refusing to immunize their pets, too. Which will result in still more preventable spread of disease, and still more premature losses and tears shed, this time for beloved companions who are gone too soon.
Let's face it: even our pets who live to advanced (for their species) ages are still gone way too soon for us hoominz. If there's one thing I don't want, it's to be launched into the grieving process even one moment sooner than necessary. They're our family, too, and I've been wounded worse by the loss of a furkid even more than by the losses of some humans. My definition of "family" is not limited by species.
A well-vaxxed pet population protects the ones who, like your kitty, were too young to be immunized. Same thing in the human population: there are some people who can't get a vaccine for various medical reasons, or whose immune system is weakened. Those are the folks relying on herd immunity from the rest of us keeping our own shots up-to-date.
I think a part of the problem is that we, the generations who have had access to vaccines for most or all of our lives, have not witnessed what these diseases can do when they're at their worst. Our parents and grandparents, on the other hand, knew very well what polio, measles, et al could do to a child, and that IF the patient lived through the infection, they could have life-changing damage left in the disease's wake. So our parents/grandparents bundled up their kids and made a beeline to the nearest vaccine distribution location, as soon as it became available, and didn't even consider refusing. They'd seen enough during their lives that they knew what they DIDN'T want to happen to their own kids.
Our generation was spared from witnessing such suffering. Until now. We're about to see WHY our parents and grandparents couldn't get their kids vaxxed soon enough. This might be the only way to get through to the anti-science crowd, but unfortunately, it's going to happen to their kids, not to them personally. I hate when someone innocent suffers due to another person's terrible decisions.
Why does everyone think vaccines are responsible for chronic illnesses and not, like, the chemical runoff in our water or our super over processed food?
Well, just recently I had a gallstone that disguised itself as a heart attack. Ambulance ride to the hospital from a rural address, all the tests, coming in for follow up tests like bloodwork and stress tests, etc. as well as a couple of visits to my GP, The total cost was $45 for the ambulance ride, which the hospital waived, and a couple of beers because a friend gave me a ride home at 3AM on a Friday night (Well, Saturday morning)
And since it was a potential heart attack. I was hooked up to monitors and had blood drawn right away. No "18 hour wait" like the horror stories say. The doctor came to see me as soon as there was enough data for him to make an evaluation, and he dropped by a few times beforehand to check on me and keep me updated. That's in addition to the nurses doing the same.
The flu shot is the only routine vaccine where I can kind of understand why it's so expensive. The vaccine changes basically yearly and requires a lot of research to come up with the prediction model for the formulation. I'm not saying the price is entirely justified, just that it's more understandable. But the other routine vaccines, not so much. As far as I know, most vaccines are still given at a loss despite the prices which goes to show just how much bloat there is in the system.
Or maybe decades of polluting our food, air, and water with all kinds of forever chemicals is finally becoming apparent in the data and it’s easier to blame vaccines than ask mega corporations to be a little less polluty.
I know vaccines work because insurance companies will sometimes cover the cost of them entirely. If they made you sick insurance companies wouldn't want you to take them because they would make you sick and cost you more money.
Conversely, pharmaceutical companies make almost no money off them because they are single dose sometimes for the year, sometimes forever. And they make money off treatments, not prevention.
The only ones that would want you to not take vaccines is drug makers who would make bank off you being forced to take a medication for the rest of your life because of preventable illness basically crippling you in one go.
Kids are the healthiest today they've ever been. Before modern times child mortality was about 50%. Now there have been some small retreats in health in recent years, mostly because of rising poverty and cuts to programs that help poor kids, not stuff vaccines help with.
Ah yes, the good old days when kids died at the age of 3 from illnesses completely preventable with vaccines. I guess it's their fault for not being born with a superhuman immune system
And if you look at actual data, you will notice that child mortality rates are consistently going down, and life expectancy is consistently going up. So this is actually exactly what we see.
Today's kids are most definitely the healthiest in history (if we ignore obesity issues).
Two centuries ago, people would have ten children in the hope that at least one would make it to adulthood and survive polio, measles, diphtheria, tetanus, smallpox, child labour in factories without and safety equipment and starving to death in the orphanage (after mother died in labour and father died in some foreign war).
I am a chronically ill person. Had I been born 20 years earlier I would have died when I was 9 years old. It was a recent medical advancement that saved my life. Gee willickers.
I have made it a habit to try to consciously identify the fallacy at work in these kinds of bullshit arguments to help train my critical thinking skills.
This is false criteria fallacy, where vaccine effectiveness is judged by, well, false or irrelevant criteria. It is a type of a more general fallacy called non sequitur ("it does not follow").
B*tch, insulin is only expensive if you live in the US.
Please do not say that too loudly :') I was used to insulin being free in my country for the past 11 years and then all of the sudden BAM, I have to pay and I'm genuinelly scared for the future even if so far, the price is miniscule
Argentina?
https://www.chhs.ca.gov/blog/2025/10/17/governor-newsom-announces-affordable-calrx-insulin-11-a-pen-will-soon-be-available-for-purchase/
We need more of this.
Chronic illness is at an all time high because people with chronic illness aren’t dying as soon as they become unwell
And because people aren't dying from illnesses that would've killed them before vaccination we're now finding out about chronic conditions that happen when the illness isn't enough to kill you. It's the whole survival bias thing all over again. Same sort of thing with how cancer numbers are going up- people didn't often live long enough to get cancer before vaccines.
Cancer rates are going up across all demographics, including infants. Young adults are getting more types of cancer that we didn't even screen for until people were at least 45. Ironically for antivaxxers, mRNAvaccines are currently our best hope for curing cancer.
Some people are also more prone to cancer. Those people, instead of dying, are passing their genetics on to their children.
Also, medical professionals are better at diagnosing things and are less likely to just assume you have hysteria or something. I know that kind of thing still happens. It has happened to me. But it used to be endemic to the medical community.
One, aging populations increase chronic disease prevalence because risk rises with age, two, saying chronic illness is at an 'all-time high' refers to modern historical data... most chronic diagnoses are a result of the modern disease framework epidemiology refined in the late 1900s. COPD wasn't a thing until 1965!
Like how when the army started using helmets, it increased the number of head injuries, because before that they wouldn't be head injuries; they'd just be fatalities.
Reminds me of helmets in war. There certainly are more injuries to be had when they aren't casualties.
Or that diagram of the common areas damaged on returning war planes. Lots of holes in the wings and tails, very few around the cockpit or engines. When you understand what you're looking at, it's kinda chilling.
Survivorship bias. In the whackjob's case, babies that would have died may now live with a "chronic illness."
Presumably, the planes that got shot in the cockpit or engines never made it back, if the damage exceeded a certain severity.
Exactly, pilots tend to be allergic to bullets
Fyi casualties includes wounded. It just means unfit to fight, not only the dead.
Survivorship bias my beloved
Vaccines actually are expensive in the US, $80-$500 per dose is typical. Insurance is required by the ACA to cover them fully. Years ago, my family had to use the vaccines for children program vouchers because our crap insurance wouldn't cover our childhood vaccines. We would go in for an appointment for my brother and I and the bill would be over $500.
bruh my doctor won't even let us pay 20 dollars for a flu jab (Australia) She pulls some strings so we get it free.
Which is wild because many of them cost pennies a dose to produce and were based on research funded by the federal government.
It’s almost like corporate greed is killing people
Insurance ia required to cover vaccines recommended by ACIP not ACA...which unfortunately has been gutted and they have begun rolling back recommendations
Survivorship bias for all the kids killed by polio, measles, and even just the flu back in the day. Even as recently as 2020 remember how many people died from COVID and COVID related complications before the vaccines started rolling out.
Hey man I didn’t vaccinate my 5 kids and the 2 that survived were just fine!
The number of shots is more but the dosage is significantly less and much of the "health" issues cited by these assholes has more to do with our sedentary lifestyle and overly processed foods.
Also we tried it on a few sicknesses first. It worked beyond belief.
So we figured out what else we could eradicate with this tech.
You know which kids can get chronic conditions? The ones who survive an infection that they could’ve avoided entirely with a vax.
My first sign language instructor was deafened as a boy because of measles, many years before there was a vax for it. My Mom described blackout curtains that families in the neighborhood would pass from one family to another, as needed, to protect kids with measles from eye damage due to too much light.
Or the kids could get something REALLY chronic from measles, polio, and more: DEATH.
We’re going to end up with bunches of innocent kids in graveyards because their parents are anti-science dingdongs. It’s infuriating.
My son (a cat) has chronic conditions due to a vaccine preventable illness he contracted in kittenhood too! He was too young to have started the FVRCP vaccine series yet and contracted panleukopenia.
Getting a serious illness as a youngster (of any species) can lead to serious life-long consequences and these antivaxx folks seem to forget that.
And some of these same dipshidiots are refusing to immunize their pets, too. Which will result in still more preventable spread of disease, and still more premature losses and tears shed, this time for beloved companions who are gone too soon.
Let's face it: even our pets who live to advanced (for their species) ages are still gone way too soon for us hoominz. If there's one thing I don't want, it's to be launched into the grieving process even one moment sooner than necessary. They're our family, too, and I've been wounded worse by the loss of a furkid even more than by the losses of some humans. My definition of "family" is not limited by species.
A well-vaxxed pet population protects the ones who, like your kitty, were too young to be immunized. Same thing in the human population: there are some people who can't get a vaccine for various medical reasons, or whose immune system is weakened. Those are the folks relying on herd immunity from the rest of us keeping our own shots up-to-date.
I think a part of the problem is that we, the generations who have had access to vaccines for most or all of our lives, have not witnessed what these diseases can do when they're at their worst. Our parents and grandparents, on the other hand, knew very well what polio, measles, et al could do to a child, and that IF the patient lived through the infection, they could have life-changing damage left in the disease's wake. So our parents/grandparents bundled up their kids and made a beeline to the nearest vaccine distribution location, as soon as it became available, and didn't even consider refusing. They'd seen enough during their lives that they knew what they DIDN'T want to happen to their own kids.
Our generation was spared from witnessing such suffering. Until now. We're about to see WHY our parents and grandparents couldn't get their kids vaxxed soon enough. This might be the only way to get through to the anti-science crowd, but unfortunately, it's going to happen to their kids, not to them personally. I hate when someone innocent suffers due to another person's terrible decisions.
They seem to have missed that the entire reason for insulin being expensive is a few greedy people.
there’s nobody to buy insulin if everyone’s fucking dead from preventable transmissible illnesses
Why does everyone think vaccines are responsible for chronic illnesses and not, like, the chemical runoff in our water or our super over processed food?
Bruh, have you seen how ridiculously expensive vaccinations are these days?
Even a standard flu shot often is $20 to $100.
I haven't paid for a single vaccine in my life. And I am fully vaccinated.
Must be nice to have had health insurance that covered them growing up
No health insurance... I just live in a rational nation.
What’s that like?
Well, just recently I had a gallstone that disguised itself as a heart attack. Ambulance ride to the hospital from a rural address, all the tests, coming in for follow up tests like bloodwork and stress tests, etc. as well as a couple of visits to my GP, The total cost was $45 for the ambulance ride, which the hospital waived, and a couple of beers because a friend gave me a ride home at 3AM on a Friday night (Well, Saturday morning)
And since it was a potential heart attack. I was hooked up to monitors and had blood drawn right away. No "18 hour wait" like the horror stories say. The doctor came to see me as soon as there was enough data for him to make an evaluation, and he dropped by a few times beforehand to check on me and keep me updated. That's in addition to the nurses doing the same.
That's what it's like.
That sounds positively civilized.
The flu shot is the only routine vaccine where I can kind of understand why it's so expensive. The vaccine changes basically yearly and requires a lot of research to come up with the prediction model for the formulation. I'm not saying the price is entirely justified, just that it's more understandable. But the other routine vaccines, not so much. As far as I know, most vaccines are still given at a loss despite the prices which goes to show just how much bloat there is in the system.
Or maybe decades of polluting our food, air, and water with all kinds of forever chemicals is finally becoming apparent in the data and it’s easier to blame vaccines than ask mega corporations to be a little less polluty.
I know vaccines work because insurance companies will sometimes cover the cost of them entirely. If they made you sick insurance companies wouldn't want you to take them because they would make you sick and cost you more money.
Conversely, pharmaceutical companies make almost no money off them because they are single dose sometimes for the year, sometimes forever. And they make money off treatments, not prevention.
The only ones that would want you to not take vaccines is drug makers who would make bank off you being forced to take a medication for the rest of your life because of preventable illness basically crippling you in one go.
TIL insulin is a vaccine.
/s
Guess I'll start taking it even though I don't have diabetes.
/double s
Kids are the healthiest today they've ever been. Before modern times child mortality was about 50%. Now there have been some small retreats in health in recent years, mostly because of rising poverty and cuts to programs that help poor kids, not stuff vaccines help with.
It’s almost as if the kids have been getting infected over and over again with a virus that causes chronic illness and disability
I feel like these people should look at this graph of child mortality over time.
https://www.gapminder.org/data/documentation/gd005/
This is my favourite, it tracks reported cases before & after the vaccines
I've got to ask... what the hell does she think almost eradicated polio, then? I'd call her a dumbass, but that would be an insult to dumbasses.
Ah yes, the good old days when kids died at the age of 3 from illnesses completely preventable with vaccines. I guess it's their fault for not being born with a superhuman immune system
Who is going to tell her that insulin is free in many places in the world?
And if you look at actual data, you will notice that child mortality rates are consistently going down, and life expectancy is consistently going up. So this is actually exactly what we see.
wait what, are they saying they’d only take/trust a vax if it financially ruined them??
They are.
It's modern Darwinism. Unfortunately the victims are innocent
Today's kids are most definitely the healthiest in history (if we ignore obesity issues).
Two centuries ago, people would have ten children in the hope that at least one would make it to adulthood and survive polio, measles, diphtheria, tetanus, smallpox, child labour in factories without and safety equipment and starving to death in the orphanage (after mother died in labour and father died in some foreign war).
LOL insulin is expensive because people are greedy.
I'm pretty sure my grandma's sewing tomato had way more pins than the 1962 example.
I am a chronically ill person. Had I been born 20 years earlier I would have died when I was 9 years old. It was a recent medical advancement that saved my life. Gee willickers.
For some reason we get more vaccines as more are invented. Weird.
You know no one took ibuprofen before it was invented, therefore it must not work for headaches!
I like the tomatoes. Now show the graph of child deaths due to preventable diseases.
Kids and people that would normally die survive and can become chronically ill instead, duh.
I have made it a habit to try to consciously identify the fallacy at work in these kinds of bullshit arguments to help train my critical thinking skills.
This is false criteria fallacy, where vaccine effectiveness is judged by, well, false or irrelevant criteria. It is a type of a more general fallacy called non sequitur ("it does not follow").
And this is how I know they’re uneducated cuz this is literally the only country on the planet where insulin is so expensive
The American brain can not comprehend this