Hi everyone! I’m moving from the US to Vancouver, and I was looking at properties on zumper. Found one, called and did a virtual tour of the apt (They also have a stand alone website that seems pretty functional). I liked the apartment, submitted an application on again, what appears a good website, and got approved. Now, they are asking for me to wire transfer half month’s rent (AS SECURITY DEPOSIT) before drafting the lease for me to sign. I refused and they said that it needs to be this way- company policy.
Is this a scam or is this common in Vancouver?
UPDATE: I had sent an email saying I wasn’t comfortable paying the security deposit until after the lease is signed. They responded saying it’s company policy and are unable to draft the lease until I pay the deposit.
UPDATE 2: I sent the deposit. Won’t know what comes of it until the are back in the office after the Holidays but the office number + website seem legitimate.
What is the name of the building?
Half a month’s rent is the standard damage deposit, so it’s not uncommon to ask for that.
I provided a deposit before officially signing my lease to secure the place.
While a lot of people do this, it’s a better idea to review the agreement before putting down the deposit. If there is anything in the agreement that is a dealbreaker for you and you decide not to move in, you may never get your deposit back.
Not to mention handing over a deposit before the contract is signed could mean they take your money and run. You'd have zero legal recourse.
The proper way that landlords should be doing this exchange is by filling out the standard lease form and signing their name at the bottom, leaving the tenant part blank for them to sign. The tenant signs, and then hands over the deposit at the same time, as this is written in the contract terms as necessary. Both parties get protection.
FYI, even without signing a lease, if the landlord receives/accepts the deposit, then a tenancy has been legally established. If they try to put any clause in the lease that is against the tenancy act, then that clause is not legally binding.
Source: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/residential-tenancies/starting-a-tenancy/deposits-fees#security
Where does it say this?
The wording on the BC gov website says "Once the tenant has paid the deposit, the tenancy is considered to be established" but this is assuming a lease has already been signed. Otherwise there would be no tenancy to speak of.
This is not assuming that the lease has already been signed. I had called the BC tenancy if a lease has to be signed, they said no. As long as someone paid the deposit and the landlord accepted it, it is a tenancy. You can confirm with them.
Without a lease how is there a tenancy? You have no lease terms, no rent price, no extras (parking, etc.) Something is clearly being miscommunicated here
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If it's a real property management company they won't scam you - call them through their actual website to verify.
Half months rent is a standard amount, and often is asked before move-in if you're securing the place early as it gives them a sense of security that you won't bail at the last minute and leave them without a tenant. However it's totally fair and sensible to ask that the lease be drafted first and then signed at the time of deposit payment.
Tell them you're still interested but just being cautious because it's a common scam against foreign renters who can't view in-person. Ask them to see the policy in writing. They should understand.
Alternatively, ask them to draft and sign a lease that includes the clause that the deposit must be paid by [x date] and that the lease is void if the deposit isn't received by then. This could absolve them of any legal liability to rent to you in the case that you ghost them and it protects you as a vulnerable renter.
Also: by virtual tour do you mean that someone inside showed you around on camera or was it pre-recorded?
I agrée with the call their official phone number on their official website to confirm.
Yeah they’re legit. If you’re serious about getting that apartment just send the deposit.
Side note… it’s not the nicest building (old), but the views are killer.
In BC, tenancy begins when a tenant provides a landlord with a security deposit. There is however no reason to require transfer of a security deposit before even signing a rental tenancy agreement. At the very least, this is unusual to require.
This plus virtual tour is a slight concern. Also zumper? Is that common here? I've usually used craigslist or facebook marketplace
Also wtf is zumper?
Yeah, OP should maybe try to reverse image search the pictures or something to see if it's already been posted somewhere
do you think a property management company wouldn't use the same photos on multiple sites? Also some rental sites just scrap rental ads from other places, so it may have been posting somewhere else and then Zumper just re-posts the information on their own site to pad out their listings.
No sh*t. If they see the ad elsewhere they can see if they're talking to the same person. Pretty simple dude, surprised you need this explained
Never heard of it.
Zumper is a very commonly used rental platform. Nothing unusual with that.
I've rented from legitimate places in BC that required this. I was young and desperate
A deposit is not required to draft a lease. This is a scam! I gave my deposit when I was signing the lease. I went over the lease terms and THEN paid. I did a lot of viewings as well through companies and on my own, and not a single one required a security deposit UNTIL I was ready to sign.
Security deposits in general are very normal and common.
Please look elsewhere!
It’s not a scam. Many landlords require this so that tenants don’t waste their time and it secures the space.
That said, many landlords, especially upon request may be okay with you signing the lease and then paying the deposit.
Did they mean half month rent as security deposit?
Yes. As security deposit
Yea, it's normal to pay security deposit while signing a lease.
It was before
As a landlord, I once had a tenant sign the lease without paying the deposit, then ghost me. I had a signed lease so wasn’t sure if/when I could re-rent. I think deposit at the time of signing protects both parties (but that’s tricky if you’re negotiating long distance)
Do. Not. Send. Any. Money….
Until you view a place in person and have a lease contract in front of you.
Always.
This is your answer. So many people get scammed Get a hotel or short term stay and put your stuff in storage, or send a friend to view.
Its a grey area but in my personal experience it's pretty universal for landlords here to ask for it.
Legaly its not required to ask for the security deposit before the lease is signed, but by BC law once the lease is signed they have to give you a month to pay the security deposit/rent before its considered broken. The landlords hate this because if the tennant opts to bail they are stuck with the unit off the market for a month. Which is why despite it not being legal every landlord in this city in my expiriance requires it. Even the property management megacorps have you pay the deposit in thier online portals after the lease is drafted but before you can sign it, though as you get the lease drsft fist and it's in a portal its safer than a smaller landlord.
While you have every right by law to refuse to pay the deposit first. They also have the right to opt not to rent to you if you chose not to.
If I were you I'd get a feel for the person. If they are willing in writing to agree to send you a copy of the draft lease for mutual agreement and to sign the lease the second the deposit is recived, then I'd go for it as they are probably mostly trying to ensure they're not stuck with the property off the market for another month. Also most landlords are idiots who do due to years of being spoilt by a white hot rental market and not requiring a license, never bothered actually learning how the law works. If they refuse to be reasonable or agree to a written paper trail you saved yourself the headache of dealing with a scammer.
In general with your search its nice to remind them just how cheap and plentiful the rental market is right now and how you have other options you are considering. You screen out the bad ones cause they will rage and the good ones will throw in a discount to try and get you to rent. Most of the property investors bought during the post Covid peak, are unwilling to it sell at a loss, and are bleeding cash every month thier units stay unoccupied. They're more desperate than you are.
While its not exhaustive this is one of the best listing agragetors out there: https://www.padmapper.com/
I have just recently moved to Vancouver and rented from the start of this month. We had an email worded like that and not being from here, it didn't sit well. I said to the landlord I'd prefer to have a lease or some document prior to sending money and there was zero issue. They sent on the lease a few days later, I signed it and then forwarded the deposit. Don't do something that makes you uneasy.
Who was the landlord or building? Seems like a good one!
Before signing or at time of signing? The contract protects you and the landlord, security deposits are legal and normal, they're meant to provide landlords with protection from delinquent renters, and usually they equate to the amount of notice they are required to give you if evicted for non-payment of rent. EG. if they have to give 2 weeks notice of eviction, they'll request a 2 week security deposit... usually.
But before signing.... idk if I'd do that, I'd show up with check or cash in hand plus the signed form and get both done at the same time just to be safe.
Before signing. They are unable to draft the lease until I pay. Unfortunately, I’m not in the country or I would show up in person.
That part sounds scammy. Sometimes people pose as companies to scam people, did you call their number from google or just from the ad you saw?
What's the building? What's the name of the business you're supposed to transfer to? I am very good at Googling and might be able to figure out if it's legit. DM me if you don't want to share publicly.
Hello! US Citizen here, who moved to Canada a few years back.
So is this a fee for them to draft the lease?? How did they describe it exactly?
I don't think we've ever had to pay for them to draft a lease. That's very strange. We have put down a deposit of a month's rent once we have signed.
Edited: wording
The tenancy rules are different in each province. In BC it's standard to pay a security deposit equal to half a month's rent. In Ontario I believe they ask for first and last month's rent, so slightly different. I have no idea how it works in other provinces.
In BC, the deposit is usually paid at the signing of the lease. Until you have a lease agreement, you don't actually have a contract to say what you're actually paying for, so that seems odd. Typically you'd pay the deposit upon signing .
Yep, exactly. Seems odd they are basically asking for money before even drafting the lease. Definitely make sure this is a real place. I have to see the place before signing a lease. The amount of times I've walked into a place and it's nothing like the pics is a shame. A lot of the times they brighten everything in the pics and the place is nothing like the pictures portray.
It’s the security deposit. They are asking for it first in order to draft the lease. Company policy according to them.
Hmm, can you ask them if they will take it on the day of signing the lease?
I won't be paying anything to this place unless I signed the lease. Otherwise, you're just gifting money to strangers with no contract. That's not safe and that's not the norm, and I would not accept it. I'd look elsewhere. A lot of rentals are supposed to flood the market in the new year (first few months). It's a renters and buyers market, so I'd wait unless you are on a time crunch.
Beach towers is an old building, so I'd also be weary.
Also, zumper is an ok app, but padmapper is better. Way better search engines and better selection in my opinion. I have used craigslist, but I wouldn't recommend it as much as padmapper.
Zumper owns padmapper and anything I've listed on zumper gets cross posted to padmapper. I'm not sure if padmapper listings get sent to zumper tho.
Oh, really? That's good to know. Thanks for the info :)
Personally, I like the filtering system better in padmapper than zumper. Zumper is really finicky on the app, and I've had trouble with messaging on it. I've even lost messages on it, and have to use email, which was a bummer. Padmapper is much more streamlined for me!
Definitely agree, padmapper was what I used to use until Zumper bought it and started trying to charge for it. Then just recently I started using Zumper again because it's back to being free.
I doubt it’s a scam, if anyone really thinks about it. Why would they care if you sign an agreement if it’s a scam. A scammer is not going to put up roadblocks to you sending them money. They would have already had an agreement written up for you to sign to get your money.
Paying a deposit establishes tenancy the same way signing an agreement does, so it just makes sense to do it at the same time for both parties.
They probably just don’t want to waste their time and make sure you are serious before doing any work. Since if you do pay a deposit, you can’t back out either.
Not sure why people don't get this. If they're going to have a fake website, fake application, fake video walkthrough, fake listings, they sure as hell are going to make fake lease agreements... Which are standardized forms that they just need to enter minimal information.
Yeah, a lot of people are really not thinking this through by calling it a scam. What scammers aren’t going to do the 10 minute of work to draft up a fake RTB-1 to get someone’s deposit?
Some are even thinking it’s a scam because they just don’t recognize a popular rental website.
Their policy is against the law lol. You sign a lease agreement, then you agree to pay security deposit and rent.
I would just confirm it’s a legit company tbh. If it is I’d go with it. Post the legal name and the website on Reddit and I bet Redditors in Vancouver will let you know.
Process is usually: -read agreement -sign agreement -pay damage deposit, 1/2 month’s rent -pay rent on the 1st of the month
No rental agreement, no deposit.
In British Columbia (BC), a landlord cannot legally ask for a deposit before you sign the lease; demanding money before the Residential Tenancy Agreement (RTB1) is signed, or before you've reviewed it, is against the law and a major red flag for a scam, as the tenancy officially starts after both parties sign and deposits are paid, with a maximum of half a month's rent for security/pet deposits. Always sign the lease first, then pay deposits (security and pet, each max half month's rent), ensuring you get a written receipt and proper condition inspection reports.
Sounds like security deposit
Yes. I didn’t clarify that in my post. They want it as security deposit. Is it standard to request security deposit before drafting the lease?
Honestly ive never really paid attention to the cadence. As long as you're renting through someone reputable, dont sweat it
Except scammers pose as legitimate companies and scam people with shit like this
Oh i just saw he only did a virtual tour.... thats a hell to the no.
I dont underatand folks renting places sight unseen
yes, it totally makes sense for a scammer to not want to take OP's money... if they are scamming them, making a fake RTB-1 to get a deposit would take about 2 minutes.
Sounds like a scam
This is very common they want to make sure you are going to take it as it costs for advertising cleaning doing references. Any where I gotten security deposit up front pay by check or money order so you have a paper trail
Look Vancouver’s rental market had relaxed a lot. If you don’t get this unit doesn’t work out, it isn’t end if the world. Suggest you rent airbnb for a month when you first get here.
The vacancy rate is going up here. Loads of places available that you could move into last minute if you had to. If I were you I would get a short term place and just do everything in person once you’re here. Don’t even bother stressing. Landlords and rental companies can’t be picky right now, so if they’re not willing to work with you, just move on.
Write them a cheque and if it goes sideways put a stop payment on the cheque
Always sign the agreement first tbh, its a red flag if their rushing you
Property Manager here! If I request the deposit before the signing of the lease, I provide a receipt stating the deposit received, full address, tenant's name, etc. I ask if they are comfortable providing the deposit with a receipt, then do the Rental Agreement before move in. If there's a lot of interest, you run the risk of losing the place, but that's your call. Go with your gut! Don't feel comfortable, you can find another place.
I provided mine AFTER I signed the lease to every single apartment I’ve lived in. My mom who is a landlord only asks for deposit after signing the lease
Sounds like a scam
It's how it is done here. Pay the deposit and secure the unit or don't and keep looking. Everyone is going to want that half months rent and between 25 to 50% for a pet deposit if you have animals
Whenever I rented, in vancouver, I always paid deposit first and signed the lease later. It is just how the system works here.
Typically scams involve wanting several months upfront or not letting you see the unit. I have not personally heard of deposit scams but I am sure they exist
What is zumper? Never heard of this being used to find rentals here; maybe more of a scam just due to that?
I would not do it.
god forbid people around here do the smallest amount of research before calling something a scam.
https://www.zumper.com/ is just a rental website that is bigger in the US.. where the OP is from, but has listings in many Canadian cites.
I swear. People sometimes here talk out of their ass. How they survive in this world is beyond me.
The point was not that zumper itself could be a scam just because I’ve never heard of it, but it being an avenue for rentals that isn’t used locally but is used more elsewhere (exactly as you’ve just said) - which means it’s a perfect place to target people who aren’t local and are hunting from a distance - easy to run the scams we see plenty of locally, but raises less flags with those in the US, since for THEM it’s a commonly used site and carries a sense of legitimacy.
LZumper charges money for posts (after the first "few") and since it has 2K+ vancouver listings, I'm assuming it also just scrapes other rental sites so there is more listings. Scammers are much more likely to use places like craigslist, FB Marketplace, kiji where free accounts can post pretty much as much as they want, since once you have to pay for something it's a lot easier to track back to a real person.
So, the conclusion that it's likely to be a scam because you have never heard of a certain website for rentals is a bit of a stretch.
This is also on top of the fact that a scammer is not just going to draft up a fake rental application in the 10 minutes it will take in order to get the OP's money that they are ready to send. Usually scammers already have the agreement written out when asking for the deposit.
Scam do not send money.
Security is usually one month's rent, not often 1/2.(edited to add "not often") You need to look deeper, look up the company, find an official website and contact info, google the address to ensure what was shown is actually there. This seems fishy to me. I looked up the website and it looks legitimate. I would still ask for some guarantee of the lease so you can use that to get your money back if there's an issue.
It’s 1/2 month in BC
It’s a scam. Do not send money until you’ve signed a lease - and make sure it’s a real lease.
Go to the buildings website and call them
Beat the have keys in hand before signing anything or giving any money