The people wanted to keep it going. Also, when they went with shock therapy, the IMF didn't help them at all. There was no debt relief. That's why Russia got hit so hard.
They wanted to kill so hard it would never get up again. Ensured the empowerment of the most reactionary sections of society which have been entrenched ever since
The New Union treaty proposed by Gorbachev was a union with more independence from Moscow, but the august coup kind of put an end to that by completely destroying legitimacy of the soviet government, and afterwards almost all the republics pushed for full independence.
Yes, the Homo Sovieticus, perfect in his servility and wretchedness. Don't look, don't listen, don't think, don't speak, don't ask. Praise Stalin. Drink vodka to numb the pain.
I'd doubt that they wanted to keep it going. The new Union treaty was supported by the people overwhelmingly that signalled that the people wanted to have a weaker Union between the republics.
I said here many times that if there was an option to secede from the Soviet Union in that referendum that would've swung the result considerably.
If people wanted the Soviet Union to keep going why did all the independence referendums in the Soviet republics get approved overwhelmingly. In some republics >90% of voters voted to secede. If people wanted to keep the Soviet Union we wouldn't be seeing such results.
In your opinion every unwanted change comes with uprising, preferably bloody? Well, there was power struggle with tanks firing at White House. But majority of civilian people (not politicians and military junta) after Afghanistan war didnt want to fight anymore.
That was the German Democratic Republic (GDR AKA East Germany) not the Soviet Union. Following the collapse of the GDR was looting of public resources by West German capitalists, economic collapse, mass unemployment, and so on.
It won't be the end of Communism. We can make it happen worldwide. Russia included can still become Communist again. ✊ Raising Class Consciousness of the proletariat is critical to our movement. 🔥
I will never understand why people who obviously hate the USSR and communism as a whole are in these subreddits, just to say the same five “hehe communism bad” sentences over and over again. I genuinely don’t see how anyone could get enjoyment from that.
I 100% agree, the USSR wasn’t perfect just like any other nation and we should learn from them. I still would have to take the USSR with their free healthcare and accessible homes as well as their leaps in equality for women back then over the United States even today.
The equality for women was definitely something to be praised. Ahead of the times really, what I find fascinating is how this ended up clashing with their middle eastern republics because of the Islamic majority in countries like Azerbaijan.
I like to look at the ussr for what it was, a country that was built on good principles but ultimately fell due to a lot of human error
I mean that’s fine and all, but you don’t need communism to achieve free healthcare and accessible housing… in fact, thriving democratic economies support such public systems far better than any other regimes currently do, or ever have in history.
I’m not “against” communism, but claiming free health care and affordable housing as a desirable characteristic of communism is just a weak argument - many democratic countries do this far better than any communist state ever has. This isn’t an opinion, it’s just an observable fact.
The real question is, what can a functional communist state provide that a functional democratic state can’t provide? The problem with this question is that we have plenty of real existing examples of high quality democratic states, not so much for communist states (China may change that).
Either way, the USSR was not a successful communist state… it failed dramatically and collapsed. It currently exists purely as an example of what a failed communist state looks like.
FYI: I instantly reject any arguments that use the USA as an example for democracy. They literally aren’t even a true democracy by definition.
While I agree with the general topic your comment makes, I think you are making a mistake. You are seperating democratic governents and communist goverments while I believe they can coexists as as far as I know democracy is about selection of the ruling class while communism is about who owning the means of production. If you want to correct me for mistakes or want to add on, feel free to do.
Is china really communist? Its recent thriving in the last 40 years is a result of inviting capitalism into its nation. It certainly has communist in the name but CCP certainly does not invoke much classlessness. It purposefully makes it currency weak to improve its exports
USA is certainly not a perfect democracy but will there ever be one? I can certainly see improvements to the US democracy but "true democracy" gives vibes of no true Scotsman There will never be a true democracy, better ones sure but society will always have some abstraction of the peoples will.
China understands that communism cannot be accelerated nor that capitalism can just be skipped. The communist system will necessarily arrive, but only after capitalism has run its course and laid the necessary base for communism.
“Biased nonsense” first of all nothing is unbiased especially when it comes to history, a look at any historical subreddit will show that. Secondly most of the so called nonsense isn’t nonsense at all but facts, I’m sure there are some USSR supporters who spout nonsense but overall most just agree the USSR was an overall good thing for the world and especially the people who lived there
ostensibly this sub was supposed to be a sub for historical discussion which is naturally going to include criticism. it’s clearly just another tankie sub tho
Criticism isn’t stopped? I had a conversation on this same thread about the issues the USSR had. It’s more the people who come in here and just say communism bad or USSR bad with no real conversation going on or real critique. They make no sense to me
For some reason Reddit recommends even though I have not joined the sub. As for participation, well, as a Eastern European, it's just frustrating. We are being gaslit. We have lived through and fought against it only to be told that it was good, likely by people who have no direct experience.
B: I am curious if they ever have any serious arguments. It is very hard to get past the fact that they stopped people from leaving or stuff like the show trials without a cognitive disconnect. I saw the tower blocks in Berlin where windows were blocked to stop them seeing over or escaping to the west. That ain't healthy
Here in the Baltic States, we really hate the USSR. First of all, because we were forcefully annexed into it in 1940 and we got the election to the "people's" Seimas where you could only pick communists.
Also, the Soviet deportations to Siberia is a large part of our collective trauma where Stalin sent over 100 thousand Lithuanians where 70% of them were women out of their homes into cattle cartiages of trains and sent them to die in Siberia.
Also, the January events of 1991, where Soviet tanks killed 13 unarmed civilians defending the TV tower after the Nobel price winner Gorbachev sent troops to occupy those buildings.
Also, the Medininkai massacre, where Soviet OMON troops massacred our border guards in 1991.
Those are just a few events that make the USSR seem like an evil empire as Reagan put it to us Lithuanians.
should England, Wales and Northern Ireland be allowed to stop Scotland from being independent. It seemed there were very real opposition within the USSR for these regions to leave.
And washing a lot out of history just to simplify it.
That vote was not the final word as the events that followed put the nails in the soviet coffin. The secret meeting was after the august coup 1991.
That was when the hardline communists began losing support, it was a bad look, they were not the good guys in that moment.
Following that is when people began moving their loyalty from "soviet" to russian, ukrainian, belarusian and more. It wasnt that they hated communism, they didnt trust the hardline anymore.
It had its up and downs like everyone else. Just pay your respects and move on. You don’t go to the funeral of your grumpy grandpa and talk smack about him. You talk about the good things he did
A quote I think this sub would find interesting, from a book I just received called “The Affirmative Action Empire”:
“The substantive disagreement between Lenin and Stalin was over the status of Russia and the Russians. Stalin readily agreed to give the independent republics a higher status than the existing autonomous republics, but he vigorously objected to the creation of a separate RSFSR TsIK and Sovnarkom:
‘I think that Comrade Lenin's corrections will lead unavoidably to the creation of a Russian TsIK with the eight autonomous republics currently part of the RSFSR excluded from it (Tatarstan, Turkestan, and so on). It will unavoidably lead to these republics being declared independent along with Ukraine and the other independent republics, to the creation of two chambers in Moscow (Russian and Federal), and in general to deep restructurings that are not called for by either internal or external necessities.’
Stalin's concern here was not about raising the status of the eight autonomous republics to the level of Ukraine. His proposal already did that. He was worried exclusively about the creation of a separate, purely Russian TsIK that could become the vehicle for defending sectarian Russian interests and so create a situation of dual centers of power in Moscow: to be anachronistic, he was worried about Yeltsin versus Gorbachev.”
RIP. Rest in piss. Fuck USSR! Glory to independent nations of Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Ukraine, Kazachstan, Georgia etc. May the russian empire never be born again, no matter the colors on it's banners!
Yes. The USSR held a referendum 1991 asking if the USSR should be kept together as a reformed Federation .
"Do you consider necessary the preservation of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics as a renewed federation of equal sovereign republics in which the rights and freedom of an individual of any ethnicity will be fully guaranteed?"
While the vote was boycotted by the authorities in Armenia, Estonia, Georgia, Lithuania, Latvia, and Moldova, the rest of the SSRs all voted higher than 70% in order to keep some semblance of the Union together. It was the RSFSR ("Russia") and the USSR ("Ukraine") that polled the lowest with a total turnout of 80% across the entire USSR
(Visual of the results: https://www.reddit.com/r/ussr/comments/1j8xsxj/visualised_election_results_of_the_1991/ )
Yeltsin ignored this, and began to work towards breaking up the USSR, that was an illegal action, as it was not upholding the result of the referendum. The parliament began to organize against him, he brought loyal parts of the Army, and coupled the government, killing ~200 people in the Parliament, and proceeding to sign unapproved independence deals with leaders in Ukraine and Belarus, something they were not allowed to do within the legal structure of the USSR and the respective laws of those SSRs, but Yeltsin was effectively the leader of the USSR due to the coup, and no one could stop him. He quite clearly went against the will of the people.
"Do you consider necessary the preservation of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics as a renewed federation of equal sovereign republics in which the rights and freedom of an individual of any ethnicity will be fully guaranteed?"
Yes people voted for that.. But that's only a small part picture. The rest of the picture contains OTHER facts.:
On the same Referendum, RSFSR voted for establishing the presidency. Pretty much clearly targeting independence. Yes, the voters wanted it both ways: both USSR and strong RF presidency.
Several other republics held their own independence referendums throughout 1990-1991: I don't remember all of them, but Baltics, Ukraine, Georgia and Azerbaijan for sure. With pro-indendence votes winning with ever bigger majorities..
The coup of august 1991 has pretty much destroyed the legitimacy of Soviet union governing structures (and for certain made referendum results fairly meaningless)
And, fun fact, Soviet constitution did have an explicit secession clause (article 72). Republics were allowed to leave the union freely. So... With 3 founding members leaving the Union would have been dead anyway.
By the end of 1991, USSR was functionally dead. Eltsin & Co just signed the death certificate. Any claim of illegality (especially based on results of 1991 referendum) are meaningless to the point of silliness.
Yeltsin began to work towards breaking up the USSR, ... The parliament began to organize against him, The parliament began to organize against him, he brought loyal parts of the Army, and coupled the government, killing ~200 people in the Parliament
That, my friend, happened in 1993. 2 years after Soviet Union was gone.. (and 200 dead is the total death count on both sides throughout Moscow and the conflict had very little to do with restoration of Soviet union)
So... if some countries/SSRs did absolutely not want it to continue and had active independence movements, they are considered boycotted and illegal and false? Good to know.
Your post has been removed for being off-topic or lacking sufficient quality to contribute to the discussion. Please ensure your posts are relevant, thoughtful, and add value to the conversation.
I appreciate the concept but using the phrase “illegally” is so bizarre.
The USSR was a country created by violent revolution, and the overthrow of the tsars was ‘illegal’ by any reasonable measure. It was the right thing to do, but still ‘illegal’
I don't think I ever met someone who lived in the Soviet Union that liked the Soviet. Especially when it comes to the states outside Russia.
I did meet a former nuclear engineer in Moscow a few years ago that is now a car mechanic. He did like his old job better but he also did not miss the Soviet.
No because revolutions are carried out by the people, the dissolution was carried out undemocratically against the will of the overwhelming majority, how's this so hard for y'all libtards to understand lol
By that same logic, revolutions are also not carried out by the majority. Plus you're saying that the elections were carried out undemocratically but you're still defending a borderline totalitarian state
In that case, I could talk about the revolutions in countries influenced by the USSR (Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic). After all, was it the people against a minority?
It might be fair to say Braun is more extreme, but I think it is also perfectly fair to say they're both right wing extremists.
One is a right wing extremist who loves the Russian right wing and hates the EU right and the other is a right wing extremist who loves the European right and hates Russians.
A hopeless country that, after a lawless revolution, became one of the fastest growing economies in the world just a few decades after the overthrow of communism.
So much cope and revisionist history in here. Grocery stores were empty. Peoples pensions, stolen. I would say the vast majority of the USSR was ready for something different, at least. Especially the Baltic’s.
Long live the reign of the people, shall the flame carry on
do i get insta banned for sayin njyet molotov yhtö luotettava kuin bobrikov?
The people wanted to keep it going. Also, when they went with shock therapy, the IMF didn't help them at all. There was no debt relief. That's why Russia got hit so hard.
They wanted to kill so hard it would never get up again. Ensured the empowerment of the most reactionary sections of society which have been entrenched ever since
The people of the two largest republics seem very happy killing each other today.
The people of Ukraine certainly are not happy they are at war.
I'm sure. I'd be pretty pissed if someone invaded me too.
Certainly seem to be killing and dying with bitter determination.
It’s not about being pissed, it’s about fighting for survival as a separate country.
Russia stops fighting: they lose geopolitical advantage
Ukraine stops fighting: they cease to exist
Sorry but there is no war going between Russia and Kazakhstan.
The New Union treaty proposed by Gorbachev was a union with more independence from Moscow, but the august coup kind of put an end to that by completely destroying legitimacy of the soviet government, and afterwards almost all the republics pushed for full independence.
Gorbachevs reforms were already completely crippling tje country though
The people didn't go out and stand for the USSR, that's all you need to know if wanted to keep it going or not.
290 million people stayed at their homes.
Naturally, they have been trained to endure all their lives. They only did what they were told to do.
Yes, the Homo Sovieticus, perfect in his servility and wretchedness. Don't look, don't listen, don't think, don't speak, don't ask. Praise Stalin. Drink vodka to numb the pain.
Guess that's why everybody voted for independence
They didn't. The union dissolved because the leadership dismantled it.
And because the people voted for it
I'd doubt that they wanted to keep it going. The new Union treaty was supported by the people overwhelmingly that signalled that the people wanted to have a weaker Union between the republics.
I said here many times that if there was an option to secede from the Soviet Union in that referendum that would've swung the result considerably.
If people wanted the Soviet Union to keep going why did all the independence referendums in the Soviet republics get approved overwhelmingly. In some republics >90% of voters voted to secede. If people wanted to keep the Soviet Union we wouldn't be seeing such results.
they didn't show it that much though. No big protests and riots to defend revolutionary gains
This is why Red Guards are important
they sold all their gear to other countries for target practice
The people of Poland wanted to remain part of the USSR? Or the Czech Republic? And so on? I thought there were mass celebrations.
they were never a part of the USSR... the 1991 referendum was voted by the Soviet Union citizens (except Baltic states, AFAIR)
Baltics plus Armenia, Georgia and Moldova.
Not really. I don't recall a single uprising anywhere. Not military, not workers, not villagers
In your opinion every unwanted change comes with uprising, preferably bloody? Well, there was power struggle with tanks firing at White House. But majority of civilian people (not politicians and military junta) after Afghanistan war didnt want to fight anymore.
The people were crying with happiness when the wall came down.
You're just an evil POS who gets off on the thought of controlling others.
Oh really?
https://youtu.be/Oy8CrizjKh4
Right now your entire life is controlled by billionaires.
That was the German Democratic Republic (GDR AKA East Germany) not the Soviet Union. Following the collapse of the GDR was looting of public resources by West German capitalists, economic collapse, mass unemployment, and so on.
Yeah don’t blame the IMF. They don’t lend out money without reform and adoption of liberal economic policy, which is antithetical to communism.
Russia adopted a liberal economic policy.
People wanted to be free from russia! Everyone I know was fighting for freedom!
Sure thing word_word_numbers anonymous account
It won't be the end of Communism. We can make it happen worldwide. Russia included can still become Communist again. ✊ Raising Class Consciousness of the proletariat is critical to our movement. 🔥
Дебил, блядь
Hey, look it's a fascist!
Well that wasn't communism, which remains a distant utopia. It was socialism, why people keep mixing both ?
They're Communist in the sense that Socialism is a path towards Communism.
They were Marxist-Leninist, so communists.
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I will never understand why people who obviously hate the USSR and communism as a whole are in these subreddits, just to say the same five “hehe communism bad” sentences over and over again. I genuinely don’t see how anyone could get enjoyment from that.
There are legitimate criticisms of the USSR. Such as the planned economy which caused frequent shortages.
Or the quiet hypocrisy when it came to its policy in regards to foreign currency
Lastly the agricultural pseudoscience known as Lysenkoism
I 100% agree, the USSR wasn’t perfect just like any other nation and we should learn from them. I still would have to take the USSR with their free healthcare and accessible homes as well as their leaps in equality for women back then over the United States even today.
The equality for women was definitely something to be praised. Ahead of the times really, what I find fascinating is how this ended up clashing with their middle eastern republics because of the Islamic majority in countries like Azerbaijan.
I like to look at the ussr for what it was, a country that was built on good principles but ultimately fell due to a lot of human error
I mean that’s fine and all, but you don’t need communism to achieve free healthcare and accessible housing… in fact, thriving democratic economies support such public systems far better than any other regimes currently do, or ever have in history.
I’m not “against” communism, but claiming free health care and affordable housing as a desirable characteristic of communism is just a weak argument - many democratic countries do this far better than any communist state ever has. This isn’t an opinion, it’s just an observable fact.
The real question is, what can a functional communist state provide that a functional democratic state can’t provide? The problem with this question is that we have plenty of real existing examples of high quality democratic states, not so much for communist states (China may change that).
Either way, the USSR was not a successful communist state… it failed dramatically and collapsed. It currently exists purely as an example of what a failed communist state looks like.
FYI: I instantly reject any arguments that use the USA as an example for democracy. They literally aren’t even a true democracy by definition.
While I agree with the general topic your comment makes, I think you are making a mistake. You are seperating democratic governents and communist goverments while I believe they can coexists as as far as I know democracy is about selection of the ruling class while communism is about who owning the means of production. If you want to correct me for mistakes or want to add on, feel free to do.
Is china really communist? Its recent thriving in the last 40 years is a result of inviting capitalism into its nation. It certainly has communist in the name but CCP certainly does not invoke much classlessness. It purposefully makes it currency weak to improve its exports
USA is certainly not a perfect democracy but will there ever be one? I can certainly see improvements to the US democracy but "true democracy" gives vibes of no true Scotsman There will never be a true democracy, better ones sure but society will always have some abstraction of the peoples will.
The US is not a democracy hope this helps
Pretty sure it is considering how people vote and all that, maybe not a perfect one, perhaps a flawed one but still a democracy.
China understands that communism cannot be accelerated nor that capitalism can just be skipped. The communist system will necessarily arrive, but only after capitalism has run its course and laid the necessary base for communism.
Then do not advocate for USSR. I sincerely wish for anyone who wants USSR back to actually live in USSR of the past. It was horrible.
I don't like communism because it's silly to think humans behave that way, but I am quite interested in the USSR.
It's '/r/ussr' subreddit and not '/r/ussrasslicking' subreddit.
Why shouldn't people who have negative view of USSR present them?
Maybe to refute the biased nonsense that gets simultaneously posted in a tankie sub and here, supposedly a place for legitimate historical discussion.
“Biased nonsense” first of all nothing is unbiased especially when it comes to history, a look at any historical subreddit will show that. Secondly most of the so called nonsense isn’t nonsense at all but facts, I’m sure there are some USSR supporters who spout nonsense but overall most just agree the USSR was an overall good thing for the world and especially the people who lived there
Anything that comes from the tankie sub is definitely biased. I don’t know why we allow posts from there here.
this isn’t a historical sub, not really. it’s another tankie sub with a very thin guise of historical interest
ostensibly this sub was supposed to be a sub for historical discussion which is naturally going to include criticism. it’s clearly just another tankie sub tho
Criticism isn’t stopped? I had a conversation on this same thread about the issues the USSR had. It’s more the people who come in here and just say communism bad or USSR bad with no real conversation going on or real critique. They make no sense to me
For some reason Reddit recommends even though I have not joined the sub. As for participation, well, as a Eastern European, it's just frustrating. We are being gaslit. We have lived through and fought against it only to be told that it was good, likely by people who have no direct experience.
Hehe communism bad
A: it should be a place for legitimate discussion
B: I am curious if they ever have any serious arguments. It is very hard to get past the fact that they stopped people from leaving or stuff like the show trials without a cognitive disconnect. I saw the tower blocks in Berlin where windows were blocked to stop them seeing over or escaping to the west. That ain't healthy
Here in the Baltic States, we really hate the USSR. First of all, because we were forcefully annexed into it in 1940 and we got the election to the "people's" Seimas where you could only pick communists.
Also, the Soviet deportations to Siberia is a large part of our collective trauma where Stalin sent over 100 thousand Lithuanians where 70% of them were women out of their homes into cattle cartiages of trains and sent them to die in Siberia.
Also, the January events of 1991, where Soviet tanks killed 13 unarmed civilians defending the TV tower after the Nobel price winner Gorbachev sent troops to occupy those buildings.
Also, the Medininkai massacre, where Soviet OMON troops massacred our border guards in 1991.
Those are just a few events that make the USSR seem like an evil empire as Reagan put it to us Lithuanians.
He posted this after losing rainbow 6 tournament
What would be the legal way?
A referendum of the entire Union.
what if the satellite countries overwhelmingly vote to leave but the central blok votes they have to stay?
That was in the constitution.
That's a revealingly evasive response.
It is what it was.
The good ol' days?
should England, Wales and Northern Ireland be allowed to stop Scotland from being independent. It seemed there were very real opposition within the USSR for these regions to leave.
Not true, every republic voted for itself, the Baltics and Georgia abstained from the referendum.
Now, if you ask the Union of Sovereign States of North America, they may have a different opinion.
There was a second vote on December 1st 1991. Ukraine voted for independence.
And that is not the one we are talking about.
Who voted for the August coup?
They weren’t too concerned with referendums while they formed the Union and the Warsaw Pact, or held it by force.
Just like the US and NATO.
Say what you will about NATO, countries actively sought to join and still today there is a waiting list of countries trying to get in.
...No?
Let's take Finland, were the citizens asked if they supported the idea?
For EU? They were. 1994 referendum.
For NATO? No, then again, military alliances are rarely based on public opinion. But it was a parliamentary vote.
Exactly my point, see above.
NOW I M SAD
You kind of did forget. . A lot actually.
And washing a lot out of history just to simplify it.
That vote was not the final word as the events that followed put the nails in the soviet coffin. The secret meeting was after the august coup 1991.
That was when the hardline communists began losing support, it was a bad look, they were not the good guys in that moment.
Following that is when people began moving their loyalty from "soviet" to russian, ukrainian, belarusian and more. It wasnt that they hated communism, they didnt trust the hardline anymore.
Rip
Nah it shall rise again, the people shall wake up, slowly but surely
Which former republics of the USSR. do you expect to join the sequel?
Yes, rest in piss
It had its up and downs like everyone else. Just pay your respects and move on. You don’t go to the funeral of your grumpy grandpa and talk smack about him. You talk about the good things he did
Люблю смотреть как забугорные тут несут разное
I dislike the USSR but how it ended was some bs. I'm all about democracy but only if the people want it.
people should have defended it
A quote I think this sub would find interesting, from a book I just received called “The Affirmative Action Empire”:
“The substantive disagreement between Lenin and Stalin was over the status of Russia and the Russians. Stalin readily agreed to give the independent republics a higher status than the existing autonomous republics, but he vigorously objected to the creation of a separate RSFSR TsIK and Sovnarkom:
‘I think that Comrade Lenin's corrections will lead unavoidably to the creation of a Russian TsIK with the eight autonomous republics currently part of the RSFSR excluded from it (Tatarstan, Turkestan, and so on). It will unavoidably lead to these republics being declared independent along with Ukraine and the other independent republics, to the creation of two chambers in Moscow (Russian and Federal), and in general to deep restructurings that are not called for by either internal or external necessities.’
Stalin's concern here was not about raising the status of the eight autonomous republics to the level of Ukraine. His proposal already did that. He was worried exclusively about the creation of a separate, purely Russian TsIK that could become the vehicle for defending sectarian Russian interests and so create a situation of dual centers of power in Moscow: to be anachronistic, he was worried about Yeltsin versus Gorbachev.”
Yes it sort of didnt work and then collapsed. The lesson is to not ban Jesus
The USSR could have stayed if not the coup by the old power hungry elites.
The member states left because of an attempted communist coup but ig yall don't wanna talk about it
Bunch of bolschewiks in Moscow making coup against legal post-revolutionary government - legal, will of the people, best thing ever.
Soviet republics leaving union through referendums and legal act of union goverment - illegal, tragedy, worst day of my life.
Happy day!
RIP. Rest in piss. Fuck USSR! Glory to independent nations of Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Ukraine, Kazachstan, Georgia etc. May the russian empire never be born again, no matter the colors on it's banners!
Thank fuck
I'LL WIPE MY ASS WITH YOU AND YOUR FLAG!! 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🤣🤣🤣🤣
People celebrate this. A great evil was demolished that day.
Now it’s time for putler to do the same with russia 🤣
I almost didn't drink today, but after seeing this I just have to celebrate
One of the best days in history. But still sad that its mentality survived as ruSSia
Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, Ukraine and... Many more wanted to leave the union...
And East Europe also wanted to leave... And they did
Damn reddit, how did I get here? Bunch of weirdo.commies
Is this a /s or something?
https://preview.redd.it/1r69kuxp7d9g1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f07d44ab9d027cbf6c900d643c8799f19a95808a
All my homies hate ussr
Illegally?
Yes. The USSR held a referendum 1991 asking if the USSR should be kept together as a reformed Federation .
"Do you consider necessary the preservation of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics as a renewed federation of equal sovereign republics in which the rights and freedom of an individual of any ethnicity will be fully guaranteed?"
While the vote was boycotted by the authorities in Armenia, Estonia, Georgia, Lithuania, Latvia, and Moldova, the rest of the SSRs all voted higher than 70% in order to keep some semblance of the Union together. It was the RSFSR ("Russia") and the USSR ("Ukraine") that polled the lowest with a total turnout of 80% across the entire USSR
(Visual of the results: https://www.reddit.com/r/ussr/comments/1j8xsxj/visualised_election_results_of_the_1991/ )
Yeltsin ignored this, and began to work towards breaking up the USSR, that was an illegal action, as it was not upholding the result of the referendum. The parliament began to organize against him, he brought loyal parts of the Army, and coupled the government, killing ~200 people in the Parliament, and proceeding to sign unapproved independence deals with leaders in Ukraine and Belarus, something they were not allowed to do within the legal structure of the USSR and the respective laws of those SSRs, but Yeltsin was effectively the leader of the USSR due to the coup, and no one could stop him. He quite clearly went against the will of the people.
Yes people voted for that.. But that's only a small part picture. The rest of the picture contains OTHER facts.:
On the same Referendum, RSFSR voted for establishing the presidency. Pretty much clearly targeting independence. Yes, the voters wanted it both ways: both USSR and strong RF presidency.
Several other republics held their own independence referendums throughout 1990-1991: I don't remember all of them, but Baltics, Ukraine, Georgia and Azerbaijan for sure. With pro-indendence votes winning with ever bigger majorities..
The coup of august 1991 has pretty much destroyed the legitimacy of Soviet union governing structures (and for certain made referendum results fairly meaningless)
And, fun fact, Soviet constitution did have an explicit secession clause (article 72). Republics were allowed to leave the union freely. So... With 3 founding members leaving the Union would have been dead anyway.
By the end of 1991, USSR was functionally dead. Eltsin & Co just signed the death certificate. Any claim of illegality (especially based on results of 1991 referendum) are meaningless to the point of silliness.
That, my friend, happened in 1993. 2 years after Soviet Union was gone.. (and 200 dead is the total death count on both sides throughout Moscow and the conflict had very little to do with restoration of Soviet union)
What does it matter? Do you realize that the october revolution was illegal too?
So... if some countries/SSRs did absolutely not want it to continue and had active independence movements, they are considered boycotted and illegal and false? Good to know.
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It was never created legally, you pinecone.
😂😂😂😂
It still bewilders me how an entire country was outsmarted by Boris Yeltsin of all people
No! The rotten capitalist class does not go to die in the war. The conscious-raised go to fight.
I do understand brainwashed people in USRR but what’s your excuse this days ?
One of my posts was removed for being "disinformation" how fitting.
Love controlling the narrative. Just like true communists!
Good.
I appreciate the concept but using the phrase “illegally” is so bizarre. The USSR was a country created by violent revolution, and the overthrow of the tsars was ‘illegal’ by any reasonable measure. It was the right thing to do, but still ‘illegal’
At least the Union didn't end the way it began = overthrowing + massacre.
It was a joyful moment for everyone!
Fuck Communism.
Happy day for all the Russians who were trapped in the leftist tyranny of "progress", да здравствует великая белая Россия, Православная, Русская!
I don't think I ever met someone who lived in the Soviet Union that liked the Soviet. Especially when it comes to the states outside Russia.
I did meet a former nuclear engineer in Moscow a few years ago that is now a car mechanic. He did like his old job better but he also did not miss the Soviet.
Only the political elite liked that time
Rip Bozo. As someone actually from an Eastern Bloc country, this is probably the best thing to happen in post WW2 history
Thank god this abomination ended and freed up eastern and central europe from the chains of communism
What a great day!
It dissolved „illegally“?
People were really sad about this unrightful happening huh?
By the same logic, the revolution that ended the Tsardom was illegal.
No because revolutions are carried out by the people, the dissolution was carried out undemocratically against the will of the overwhelming majority, how's this so hard for y'all libtards to understand lol
In what country is it legal to be a revolutionary against the government?
This overwhelming majority did absolutely nothing against dissolution.
Which was legal then?
By that same logic, revolutions are also not carried out by the majority. Plus you're saying that the elections were carried out undemocratically but you're still defending a borderline totalitarian state
No it wasn't as it was a movement from the masses against a small group of powerful rich people.
In that case, I could talk about the revolutions in countries influenced by the USSR (Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic). After all, was it the people against a minority?
The tsar abdicated the throne himself.
The leaders of the USSR similarly ended it themselves.
The heads of the three republics are hardly "the leaders of the USSR."
Rest in piss long live the USA
Fucking morons 😀
If you ask in Poland who is the smartest leader in Russia, Gorbachev will be the obvious choice.
The only one we like here.
Poland also elected a right wing ultra nationalist lunatic who thinks he has conversations with the ghost of Piłsudski.
The prevailing public opinion in Poland is not exactly a credible metric of the quality or validity of something.
That Nawrocki is ultra-right-wing? You obviously haven't seen Braun.
It might be fair to say Braun is more extreme, but I think it is also perfectly fair to say they're both right wing extremists.
One is a right wing extremist who loves the Russian right wing and hates the EU right and the other is a right wing extremist who loves the European right and hates Russians.
Who are you talking about? Lech Walesa?
A hopeless country that, after a lawless revolution, became one of the fastest growing economies in the world just a few decades after the overthrow of communism.
Half of the comments weren't even alive to witness it, or lived in it. Lmfao.
Illegally? Ffs.
Which people? 🤣
good, long may it continue to not exist
Legal. They had to undo the theft of independent countries with the agreement of Nazi’s.
What union?
You’re right, it will never be forgotten
But that’s probably not the flex you think it is
Wasn't it also established illegally?
Best day ever! Independece day for us yay!
Rest in peace, IN THE DUSTBIN OF HISTORY ✍🏻
Should have happened way sooner.
Ahahaha
Loool.
Was any country ever dissolved legally?
federation of malaya
So much cope and revisionist history in here. Grocery stores were empty. Peoples pensions, stolen. I would say the vast majority of the USSR was ready for something different, at least. Especially the Baltic’s.
The genuinely funniest sub on Reddit
just champagne larpers who have never lived under authoritarianism
Gloruis leader Iosif Stalin.
Ragebait level delusions
I hope this is an ironic sub because this is obviously a bunch of Americans talking about how great the USSR was
Made purely for soviet propaganda, the posts and comments are written by kremlin bots.
Does the sub legitimately support the former USSR?
Yes, they are absolutely delusional. But what else would one expect from Stalin apologists.
Define...illegally...
Against the democratic consensus of the 75% majority in the 1991 referendum.