I, too, confront my grievances with god by acting upon the bodies of men. That said, I stopped being Catholic in high school and I’m a lot gayer than Mattie.
I mean that’s King Thanos- that incarnation of the character was obscenely powerful to the point it got ridiculous. Killing the Celestials, Galactus, Old King Thor, Infinity and Eternity, and the Living Tribunal itself. He kept the Hulk on a leash as a pet-trophy thing.
With a kill count like that, Daredevil stands as much of a chance of winning as any of the Avengers- which is to say, no chance at all, but for once the powerhouses won’t be lasting any longer than the street level heroes.
He didn’t- not really. He wiped out every living thing except Cosmic Ghost Rider (Frank Castle) whom he couldn’t kill for some reason, Hulk, and a variant of the Silver Surfer who came to be known as “The Fallen One”. For some reason he recruited a past version of himself to aid in defeating the Fallen One, and in the process Castle and Hulk were killed alongside the Fallen One.
Then Death arrived, seemingly dressed for a wedding as the two Thanos’ were the only two living beings in the Universe. So they had to fight to the death for the honour of her hand in marriage or something like that. The younger Thanos gained the advantage and started beating up his older self, but held back upon realising how his older self had become so pathetic that he would beg for the end- so whether or not King Thanos actually gave that fight his all was unclear.
The younger Thanos returned to his own time, and due to decisions he made with the knowledge of King Thanos’ existence, he averted that future entirely, making it so that version of himself never existed.
Comic Thanos wanting to marry Death is something that could never make it into the movies, and I’m saddened by it. He was never a noble hero. He was just trying to chase after his obsession, and it never worked.
From what i remember from the tv series he actually has really interesting back and forward with a local priest that he goes to for guidance about his vigilantism.
He is constantly worried about the morality of his actions, especially from a catholic point of view. The other person that challenges his ethics is on the complete other side of the spectrum, which is the punisher.
Its been a while since i have seen the show, but doesn't the pastor take him in to get him back to health and let him train in tbe church for a while, fully knowing it is daredevil?
I think they meant that Matt Murdoch has plenty of “Catholic guilt”, which is famous for making people think that things that are not their fault actually are their fault. Combine that with knowing about bad things that are happening around you and having the ability to do something about them, and you get a vigilante. The Catholic church’s position on vigilantism does not in fact have much influence on this, except perhaps by increasing the amount of guilt involved.
Except perhaps by increasing the amount of guilt involved
No "perhaps" about it. This one sentence is the core of Matt Murdoch's character.
His Catholic guilt motivates him to vigilantism because literally everything wrong in the world is his fault. This creates a feedback loop where he feels even more guilt about the violence he commits, and he compensates by trying to "balance the scales" and "be a good person," but due to his fucked up childhood (and the fact that he can hear every terrible crime being committed within a mile radius), the only way he knows how to "do good" is to beat the shit out of the mafia. So he commits more violence, and then he feels shitty about it, so to balance things out he does more violence. But then he feels shitty about that, so to balance that out he does more violence. But then...
I do believe that was kind of the point, the fact that the catholic doctrine is at odds. Vigilantism is a sin, but so is doing nothing when faced with evil. Your own article even says: “A person is supposed to protect their neighbor. If you see your neighbor being attacked, you have the right (and biblical mandate) to intervene to protect them”. Matt Murdock is damned either way, and that’s the rub. He is navigating it the best he can and the angst that comes with trying to be good and do good when your faith offers conflicting directions.
There's a reason Matt Murdock dresses up like a devil, and it's not just because of the lawsuits that would come from dressing like the much more fitting bat.
Those people are not Catholics, and clearly you know fuck all about the religion if you think the interpretations of baptists are indicative of Catholic doctrine.
I don’t think that baptists represent Catholics. I looked up “Catholic Church vigilantes” and assumed the results would all be catholic. I should have doubled check, it was a dumb mistake.
With an attitude like that you're 1/3rd of the way towards vigilante anti-heroism yourself! All you need now is a guilt complex and some martial arts training
Who did you pick as your patron saint at confirmation? I chose Maximilian Mary Kolbe, a Polish priest who was alive from the late 1800s to the 1940s. He died in a Nazi concentration camp, volunteering to die in place if another prisoner. He was in the camp in the first place because he was smuggling Jews and others out of Nazi-controlled regions.
His actions are far from that of a vigilante superhero, and I am by no means a Catholic authority. But it would seem to me that the Catholic Church makes provisions for taking justice into one's own hands, if the governing authorities are acting unjustly.
I was also kind of making a joke. I think that tone doesn't translate well over text. I picked St. Micheal the archangel for my patron saint. I'm aware of the irony of that.
The catholic church doesn't forbade action, it just preaches against unnecessary and unjust violence. Smuggling Jews out of the holocaust isn't a violent action. The type of vigilantism the church forbids would be stuff like Vukovich where he was beating people up purely out of need for revenge.
You see thats the part that does not make sense to me since daredevil would help the abused child. I get the feeling the average catholic might have a lot of experience ignoring child abuse.
Edit: forgot that i am not allowed to joke about the abuse me and tens of thousands suffered because of the catholic church in my country. Forgot i am not allowed to call out the catholics who did nothing to demand justice from their church.
see, youre totally allowed to not like catholics bc of your history. The issue is really that 1. This is a post about a comic book character. We could get into the specifics of how him being catholic affects his character, but at its core this is a post about how a guy with superhearing and martial arts training is kinda morally obliged to beat up criminals.
and 2. the joke wasnt funny. I know its subjective and all, and its not like im pro catholicism. But the joke didnt land well, and this really wasnt a post about the systemic issues within the catholic church, so people don't really want to hear a bad halfjoke about how all catholics are complicit in CSA.
There really is nothing wrong about talking about your experiences. You just gotta pick a better place than a post about a comic book guy. Anyways I know january sucks real hard so I hope youre bearing through it alright
I am just speaking from experience. I am one of tens of thousands of church CSA victims from my country alone. The church still tries to silence us, catholics still ignore us and justice still isn't possible for all of us.
I'll feel better when i get justice. Ill stop calling catholics out when they deal with the shit inside their religion.
The catholic church made epstein look like a small fish.
Edit: but i hope you feel better now that you got your dunk on the CSA survivour in! Silly me, i almost forgot that i am not allowed to be mad at the inaction of the cult members who looked on and did nothing even when everything came to light.
I would not feel the need to dunk on them if i met 1 of them who stood up against their church for this stuff.
Still no punishment or justice for me and the thousands of victims in my country. Worldwide its over a million.
Again, the catholic church makes epstein look like a small fry but because its a religious organization i am not allowed to call it and the people following it out.
Daredevil isn't actually a Catholic, because he isn't real. You're going on a crusade (pun intended) against a fictional character. You're right to be angry, but lashing out at Marvel Comics is a non-starter.
Why are you seemingly invested in using your trauma to downplay Epstein? Who do you think this helps? What do you think you're accomplishing by playing Trauma Olympics with his victims?
Dont happen overnight. 20 FUCKING YEARS. Its been 20 years for me personally and they can barely apologize, let alone work with governments to actually prosecute the pedos in their midst.
And again, not every Catholic person is responsible for what happened to you, nor should they be.
They are not responsible for what happened to me, they are responsible for not withholding their funds and protesting against their organization until justice is served.
Oh i know, i know i will never get any form of actual justice. Instead ill be a loud and annoying bitch for the rest of my life and wont let anyone forget how they just ignore the catholic church doing these crimes.
It's either that or arson so i think it's best that i am just a loud annoying bitch.
Dont care tbh. Any place where catholics are depicted as innocent and where the fact they allow the predations of their organization to keep happening is not mentioned is an appropriate place for me to talk about it.
I've always heard Matt Murdock described as "someone acting upon his grievances with God, upon the body of Man".
Unfortunately he has a lot of grievances with God. Fortunately there are a lot of men he could act upon!
It's a self-sustaining business
I, too, confront my grievances with god by acting upon the bodies of men. That said, I stopped being Catholic in high school and I’m a lot gayer than Mattie.
Man?
True.
But also
https://preview.redd.it/m8sigks138bg1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c2246d0211824bdcc7ae19c7fc4729ac57ad8fa
He has the power of God and Anime on his side, he's got this.
I mean that’s King Thanos- that incarnation of the character was obscenely powerful to the point it got ridiculous. Killing the Celestials, Galactus, Old King Thor, Infinity and Eternity, and the Living Tribunal itself. He kept the Hulk on a leash as a pet-trophy thing.
With a kill count like that, Daredevil stands as much of a chance of winning as any of the Avengers- which is to say, no chance at all, but for once the powerhouses won’t be lasting any longer than the street level heroes.
honestly peak heroism. Dying just so maybe someone stronger than you can take advantage of the milliseconds thanos spends killing you instead of them.
"It's not about winning or losing! It's about me taking you on right here, right now!" 🚲🗣
How did he eventually get beaten?
He didn’t- not really. He wiped out every living thing except Cosmic Ghost Rider (Frank Castle) whom he couldn’t kill for some reason, Hulk, and a variant of the Silver Surfer who came to be known as “The Fallen One”. For some reason he recruited a past version of himself to aid in defeating the Fallen One, and in the process Castle and Hulk were killed alongside the Fallen One.
Then Death arrived, seemingly dressed for a wedding as the two Thanos’ were the only two living beings in the Universe. So they had to fight to the death for the honour of her hand in marriage or something like that. The younger Thanos gained the advantage and started beating up his older self, but held back upon realising how his older self had become so pathetic that he would beg for the end- so whether or not King Thanos actually gave that fight his all was unclear.
The younger Thanos returned to his own time, and due to decisions he made with the knowledge of King Thanos’ existence, he averted that future entirely, making it so that version of himself never existed.
Comic Thanos wanting to marry Death is something that could never make it into the movies, and I’m saddened by it. He was never a noble hero. He was just trying to chase after his obsession, and it never worked.
I believe it was Frank Castle as a Ghost Rider.
Did this person really write "ahh" instead of "ass"?? What the fuck?
yeah i'll incorporate that into my belief system
There's no belief needed.
Matt Murdock, the Daredevil, is canonically a devout Roman Catholic.
And it's not a "writer said so" kinda thing. He goes to church all the time.
From what i remember from the tv series he actually has really interesting back and forward with a local priest that he goes to for guidance about his vigilantism.
He is constantly worried about the morality of his actions, especially from a catholic point of view. The other person that challenges his ethics is on the complete other side of the spectrum, which is the punisher.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the pastor figured out he was Daredevil too
Its been a while since i have seen the show, but doesn't the pastor take him in to get him back to health and let him train in tbe church for a while, fully knowing it is daredevil?
Yes, at the beginning of season 3
Even before that he knows. And he says something like “I don’t know how you do what you do”
I haven't finished it, so idk
"I'm not stupid Matty, I know what you do. Can't for the life of me figure out how but I know what you do."
From the conversation where he's trying to justify murdering Fisk to himself
https://preview.redd.it/jtejyfbtc9bg1.png?width=908&format=png&auto=webp&s=f41bd0c3e2af1872bb3be840a4e3512ae52b8d9f
Actually, Matt Murdock isn't Daredevil, as shown in this comic panel
Oh my gosh. Ive been lied to all these years
Of course not, everyone knows Daredevil is Matt's twin brother Mike Murdock.
Hell, in the most recent run, he was *literally* a priest.
no, MY belief system. it's mine now. i stole it.
And the ladies can’t stay away!
I don't think the Catholic church supports vigilantism and beating people up. I think it's the opposite, in fact.
Edit: changed the link in the comment. The first link was a Baptist site by mistake. That’s embarrassing.
I think they meant that Matt Murdoch has plenty of “Catholic guilt”, which is famous for making people think that things that are not their fault actually are their fault. Combine that with knowing about bad things that are happening around you and having the ability to do something about them, and you get a vigilante. The Catholic church’s position on vigilantism does not in fact have much influence on this, except perhaps by increasing the amount of guilt involved.
No "perhaps" about it. This one sentence is the core of Matt Murdoch's character.
His Catholic guilt motivates him to vigilantism because literally everything wrong in the world is his fault. This creates a feedback loop where he feels even more guilt about the violence he commits, and he compensates by trying to "balance the scales" and "be a good person," but due to his fucked up childhood (and the fact that he can hear every terrible crime being committed within a mile radius), the only way he knows how to "do good" is to beat the shit out of the mafia. So he commits more violence, and then he feels shitty about it, so to balance things out he does more violence. But then he feels shitty about that, so to balance that out he does more violence. But then...
It is not a peaceful man that dresses as the Devil to beat up evil men using a billy club.
to be fair, he also does good stuff in court. it's just not enough.
Yeah spot on. One does not dress up like the devil because they feel uncomplicated about their actions haha.
Just call it a one-man low-level Crusade, and get your confessions in
I do believe that was kind of the point, the fact that the catholic doctrine is at odds. Vigilantism is a sin, but so is doing nothing when faced with evil. Your own article even says: “A person is supposed to protect their neighbor. If you see your neighbor being attacked, you have the right (and biblical mandate) to intervene to protect them”. Matt Murdock is damned either way, and that’s the rub. He is navigating it the best he can and the angst that comes with trying to be good and do good when your faith offers conflicting directions.
To show his scene from Judgement Day, he is well aware of this.
https://preview.redd.it/0ir1f8prz7bg1.png?width=586&format=png&auto=webp&s=354d33beed8389ab09e006606f9927f23828233f
It does if you're God
Maybe not that, but table-tossing is quite the incentive against greed.
Idk I watched a documentary that said the opposite. I think the title was The Boondocks Saints
Baptists aren't Catholics.
There's a reason Matt Murdock dresses up like a devil, and it's not just because of the lawsuits that would come from dressing like the much more fitting bat.
Those people are not Catholics, and clearly you know fuck all about the religion if you think the interpretations of baptists are indicative of Catholic doctrine.
I don’t think that baptists represent Catholics. I looked up “Catholic Church vigilantes” and assumed the results would all be catholic. I should have doubled check, it was a dumb mistake.
You must be fun at parties
I care more about the truth than being fun.
With an attitude like that you're 1/3rd of the way towards vigilante anti-heroism yourself! All you need now is a guilt complex and some martial arts training
Not if I'm following the teachings of the Catholic Church.
I was making a joke, but sure.
Who did you pick as your patron saint at confirmation? I chose Maximilian Mary Kolbe, a Polish priest who was alive from the late 1800s to the 1940s. He died in a Nazi concentration camp, volunteering to die in place if another prisoner. He was in the camp in the first place because he was smuggling Jews and others out of Nazi-controlled regions.
His actions are far from that of a vigilante superhero, and I am by no means a Catholic authority. But it would seem to me that the Catholic Church makes provisions for taking justice into one's own hands, if the governing authorities are acting unjustly.
I was also kind of making a joke. I think that tone doesn't translate well over text. I picked St. Micheal the archangel for my patron saint. I'm aware of the irony of that.
The catholic church doesn't forbade action, it just preaches against unnecessary and unjust violence. Smuggling Jews out of the holocaust isn't a violent action. The type of vigilantism the church forbids would be stuff like Vukovich where he was beating people up purely out of need for revenge.
Yeah that makes a lot of sense under a post about superheroes
And that contradiction is also part of his character
Link https://www.tumblr.com/mikkeneko/779819288930500608?source=share
OK but what about when he beats up people who don't live next door to him though
"you are also very catholic"
You see thats the part that does not make sense to me since daredevil would help the abused child. I get the feeling the average catholic might have a lot of experience ignoring child abuse.
Edit: forgot that i am not allowed to joke about the abuse me and tens of thousands suffered because of the catholic church in my country. Forgot i am not allowed to call out the catholics who did nothing to demand justice from their church.
see, youre totally allowed to not like catholics bc of your history. The issue is really that 1. This is a post about a comic book character. We could get into the specifics of how him being catholic affects his character, but at its core this is a post about how a guy with superhearing and martial arts training is kinda morally obliged to beat up criminals.
and 2. the joke wasnt funny. I know its subjective and all, and its not like im pro catholicism. But the joke didnt land well, and this really wasnt a post about the systemic issues within the catholic church, so people don't really want to hear a bad halfjoke about how all catholics are complicit in CSA.
There really is nothing wrong about talking about your experiences. You just gotta pick a better place than a post about a comic book guy. Anyways I know january sucks real hard so I hope youre bearing through it alright
girl if that was a joke you overexplained the shit out of it.
You feel better now that you got your mandatory dunk on religion out of the way?
Nah.
I am just speaking from experience. I am one of tens of thousands of church CSA victims from my country alone. The church still tries to silence us, catholics still ignore us and justice still isn't possible for all of us.
I'll feel better when i get justice. Ill stop calling catholics out when they deal with the shit inside their religion.
The catholic church made epstein look like a small fish.
Edit: but i hope you feel better now that you got your dunk on the CSA survivour in! Silly me, i almost forgot that i am not allowed to be mad at the inaction of the cult members who looked on and did nothing even when everything came to light.
I’m not trying to dunk on you any more than you’re dunking on every single Catholic person for what happened to you.
I would not feel the need to dunk on them if i met 1 of them who stood up against their church for this stuff.
Still no punishment or justice for me and the thousands of victims in my country. Worldwide its over a million.
Again, the catholic church makes epstein look like a small fry but because its a religious organization i am not allowed to call it and the people following it out.
Daredevil isn't actually a Catholic, because he isn't real. You're going on a crusade (pun intended) against a fictional character. You're right to be angry, but lashing out at Marvel Comics is a non-starter.
Why are you seemingly invested in using your trauma to downplay Epstein? Who do you think this helps? What do you think you're accomplishing by playing Trauma Olympics with his victims?
[removed]
Dont happen overnight. 20 FUCKING YEARS. Its been 20 years for me personally and they can barely apologize, let alone work with governments to actually prosecute the pedos in their midst.
They are not responsible for what happened to me, they are responsible for not withholding their funds and protesting against their organization until justice is served.
Like it or not, I don’t think that’s something that’s ever going to happen.
Oh i know, i know i will never get any form of actual justice. Instead ill be a loud and annoying bitch for the rest of my life and wont let anyone forget how they just ignore the catholic church doing these crimes.
It's either that or arson so i think it's best that i am just a loud annoying bitch.
I also don’t think people are ignoring what happened to you and people like you, but whatever helps you sleep at night.
Dunking on groups, especially very large groups, is usually funnier than dunking on one person. I think the Catholics can handle it.
Dude, there's a time and a place and this is neither. Next time try therapy.
Oh i already did that.
Context clues. Therapy is the time and place. Not a reddit post about superheroes.
Dont care tbh. Any place where catholics are depicted as innocent and where the fact they allow the predations of their organization to keep happening is not mentioned is an appropriate place for me to talk about it.
You're allowed to make jokes, and people are allowed to think they don't contribute to the conversation.