i always get misgendered at work without fail. i do think my voice is the leading factor in a lot of situations but thankfully im in the process of starting T. hopefully on it but february
You also look really young too. I thought you were in school. I imagine even if the voice passed well, you would still be given difficulty for being so baby faced as a guy.
What sort of work do you? Did you work there for a long time (like did you work there before you transitioned?) what's the uniform like, do you notice if there is a difference in the way that men and women wear their uniforms? I am assuming that you are wearing a "male" uniform, unless the uniforms were unisex already.
Aside from that yeah it could well be your voice. T will help but even aside from that, if you take notice of the way that men and women generally speak to each other, there are differences. It's difficult to explain without being able to give you specific examples but I hope you can understand what I mean. Language is sometimes gendered in a subtle way that most people don't notice unless they are specifically looking for it.
This exactly, I learnt how to tell if I pass by the way ppl talk to me before I acknowledged I was trans cuz of how uncomfortable it made me when I was passing as a dude then gave a girl name when asked and they switched up realising I was at the time a lesbian. It's subtle if Ur not paying any attention but dramatic if ur listening
There’s three main elements to vocal gendering, weight, size, and pitch.
For size, you’ll want to maximise your oropharyngeal space (that’s essentially how open/large your mouth and throat is). If you hold a yawn, speaking in that posture provides a good example of the kind of changes you want to be moving towards. Speaking more loudly with higher airflow handles weight. And then it’s just a case of going as low in pitch as possible. You can practice scales to increase your range, reducing your pitch floor.
Honestly, pre-T it’s probably going to be a struggle. There are lots of great resources on /r/transvoice although admittedly it’s more so aimed at voice feminisation. The concepts are the same, you just want to do the opposite.
besides T, I'm a trans woman who's voice never dropped. As a "Young man" I had to sound masculine because well my egg didn't crack until I was 40.
I need to caveat that I'm an athiest, and do not suggest this because of belief, it's just the thing that worked for me in the 90s as a "man" trying to not sound like a woman.
Gospel music, specifically Amazing Grace, try singing it as low as possible from the belly while feeling a buzz in the lungs.
People can control where sound comes fom when talking, femine voices come from the top of the airflow for me it feels like just by the back of the roof of the mouth, masculine voices come from the bottom of the airflow like a cats purr feel it in the collar bone. You can get the registar by making a humming sound and deeping it as far down as possible, you should actually feel a vibration in the lower jaw and collar bone. Then once you get that vibration down start singing Amazing Grace, it's easy lyrically but encourages a deep voice.
That was my method, I would do it while driving every day, eventually I realized I was never a man and transitioned female. Now I have to do the opposite.
I think you look like a young cis guy honestly. You’re probably in that in between stage where it depends on the context of the situation whether they’re profiling you as a young guy or woman rather than something about you yourself. I find in some situations people think I’m a guy but in others they assume I’m a woman.
i think you’re right, it seems to be a work issue and commonly a university issue, but in public strangers think i’m just a young dude which is always nice and reassuring
Yeah honestly you’re not doing anything to cause it, I think it’s a case of you look too young of a guy to be at uni or whatever so they assume otherwise.
sobsbsss why are you even asking thissss i was so confused when i saw this post cos i thought it was a mtf who hadnt started transitioning. literally nothing gives it away you look totally 100% like a guy. <3
thank you 🙏🏻 it’s hard at the moment because i’ve been getting misgendered a lot so i’ve really been doubting myself. i guess i was hoping redditors would be brutally honest 😭😭
We are brutally honest. You look good dude! I had to double check the sub that this was in because at first I assumed it was a male grooming or looksmaxxing sub
I mean, I think you pass, just to get that out of the way. For voice-related stuff, there is FTM voice training out there- I know there's a YouTube video for it, just do a search.
But I will say that if being stealth is at all important to you, now or in the future, posting photos of yourself on a totally open site like Reddit has the potential to make that extremely difficult. People do trawl these trans subreddits for pictures so they can try and dox people or harass them or whatever else. It honestly freaks me out when I see people post identifiable photos like this, because once they're up, they're out of your control. Just be careful, is all I'm saying.
Take up more space. This advice is, of course, with a pinch of salt because it's encouraging something that cis men do as an entitlement, but yeah. You seem to be making yourself small in a couple of the photos you've shared.
Try shoulders back, posture upright. Think of what it feels like to simply be powerful - that's what men feel like, whether they know it or not, and that's what gets attached to masc performance.
You look a great deal like my trans male friend. I never think of him as anything other than a dude. Voice might be part of it, as others have said, but looks wise, I reckon you’re there.
you pass very well visually, so since your pre-T i think it’s your voice that’s giving you away. until you get on T voice training will be the only thing you can do i think
At this point you probably just need T unless you can do voice training and that's why you don't pass.
In pictures you pass but it's hard to tell if you completely pass because there's a lot missing from photos like vocal patterns, context of interactions, voice pitch, mannerisms, etc.
Pass as what? Visually you are fairly androgyness. If it's to pass as male then lack of beard shadow, voice and mannerisms/body language are the most likely.
If ur 18+ id say u probably get misgendered because u look younger and maybe ur voice isn't deep yet. Get to working out (building up muscles and probably upper body mostly ftm fitness will probably have stuff and make sure ur eating enough and enough protein) voice train or start hrt when u are able to and just wait a bit
u have a great starting look and u do pass but u could pass better/ more for ur age. Honestly though sometimes cisgender people are misgendered and it's getting more prevalent currently so don't take it to heart too much (I know that's hard to do but yea)
One thing that might not be helping appearance wise is that you look like a very young teen, like i would guess ab 14. If you are in a context where you are clearly older than that e.g. at work people might go with fem terms bc it doesnt make sense for you to be a 14yr old boy. Most likely voice is part of it too, but that might be part of it.
dude seriously I wouldn't worry about it. You fr pass so well. If anyone were to misgender you I'd assume it was just from you looking quite young (tho that's v common for trans people) or more just the polite manner in which you talk (I've met u irl). I wouldn't say it's your voice or a voice training thing, tonally your voice is quite masc - if people at your work call u 'the lady' it's probs more a reflection of you being nice and polite, thus being 'the lady' amongst men - but that doesn't mean they're particularly clocking you as trans ?? At least I wouldn't say so - overall you pass really well, so I think it's more just a joke than anything ? I wouldn't take it personally tho :/
haha yes, only fairly briefly tho at CHM and we didn't talk much, tho I did clock u as trans, tho I just assumed that was cuz I'm trans too, plus u were mutuals with an old friend of mine who is also trans, so it just kinda added up lol - hope you're doing alright tho :)
it's Eden. most people don't realise I'm trans tho - at least these days - and just assume i'm a woman (or, well, a girl really) which kinda sucks, but it's whatever.
and thanks! things aren't going too great tbh, but it is what it is ahah. Hang in there, and I hope you have a good Christmas!
i’m sorry to hear that, please don’t be afraid to reach out even if it’s just someone to rant too, you were really kind and i wouldn’t mind if you wanted to chat to me about anything. you have my insta after all :)
Shortly after coming out to a friend at work she said 'oh you should meet this guy he's a trans guy maybe you'd get along'
For reference i ended up never meeting him properly
One day this guy and his dad walks in to the shop, guys was about 18ish, hood up, really couldnt see much of his face, but there was something about him that just seemed either off or familiar (even though im mtf), i dont know what it was, he passed perfectly (Or nearly evidently).
Couple minutes later my friend comes up to me and says 'oh that guy on your till in the white hoodie was the guy i was telling you about.'
visually you pass very (i mean very) only I assume a lot younger than your actual age (same for me even on T - only started levelling out on my 4th year). in certain circumstances, because I have longer hair for vintage styles I get misgendered as well - remember misgendering is not just a trans experience. visually, not much we can do - you look fab.
general mannerisms shouldn't make much of a dent really, it'll help very rarely but it's more effort than it's worth and you'll naturally swing into the groove of who you want to be anyway.
I do recommend requesting voice training, clinics can get those far quicker than other affirming therapies. Purely because it's not often requested for transmasc folks - and it's worth it, I got it after starting T for more medical reasons, but it did also help my vocal confidence.
In the meantime, being louder and more confident in delivery helps. It's hard, it'll feel gross. But most of 'gender' in voice is down to how you present what you have. Also voice training - renee yoxon on yt is good (and more).
I see from comments you are close to being on T, so it's a good point to start vocal training anyway for the sake of flexibility!
Wow. I thought you were a guy looking for advice about feminisation. You look great in the photos.
I guess that facial hair will help you look older.
Your gait might need work. Look (glance) at other men - see how they sit with their legs apart on the train. Watch films to see how othervmen walk, legs straight, no hip swing and a bit of cowboy at a gunfight vibe.
And of course there's voice. Loads of contributing factors to change it: Relax your face. As an exercise puff your cheeks and then blow a floppy raspberry - that's the feeling you want. When talking try to talk from your upper chest / chest cavity.
Source: I do voiceovers and radio. Ironically I'm cis male but sometimes get misgendered on the phone when I forget to put my manly voice on - so I have practice switching modes.
looking at the pictures I'm going to be honest, picture 1 looks like a guy in drama class, picture 2 looks like a bro being a silly viking, picture 3 looks like the dude is having a chinese meal.
So if by pass you mean you're a trans guy, you look like a cis man about 19 years old.
Use coconut oil on your face every 3 days, shave the after applying.
Let body hair grow, go short back and sides and change the top to be a little shorter, dont dye hair.
Get some contacts, and use a mouth ball to grow jawline muscles, or chew lots of meat.
Start building muscles, up aswell.
Doing chest exercises will get rid of any breastfeeding tissue you might still have (if you havent had surgery.
Dude I think you're good.
Maybe it's something about your mannerisms, posture, gait, voice or vocabulary? In what situations are you not passing, do you have any examples?
i always get misgendered at work without fail. i do think my voice is the leading factor in a lot of situations but thankfully im in the process of starting T. hopefully on it but february
Could be your work uniform. Like how you look in your work uniform. As well as your voice pre-T being a factor too.
Otherwise you’d probably get asked “are you even old enough to work here” quite a lot
You also look really young too. I thought you were in school. I imagine even if the voice passed well, you would still be given difficulty for being so baby faced as a guy.
What sort of work do you? Did you work there for a long time (like did you work there before you transitioned?) what's the uniform like, do you notice if there is a difference in the way that men and women wear their uniforms? I am assuming that you are wearing a "male" uniform, unless the uniforms were unisex already.
Aside from that yeah it could well be your voice. T will help but even aside from that, if you take notice of the way that men and women generally speak to each other, there are differences. It's difficult to explain without being able to give you specific examples but I hope you can understand what I mean. Language is sometimes gendered in a subtle way that most people don't notice unless they are specifically looking for it.
This exactly, I learnt how to tell if I pass by the way ppl talk to me before I acknowledged I was trans cuz of how uncomfortable it made me when I was passing as a dude then gave a girl name when asked and they switched up realising I was at the time a lesbian. It's subtle if Ur not paying any attention but dramatic if ur listening
I assume you're FtM, you certainly look like a teen boy. Maybe it's voice?
maybe. do you have any pre T tips to lower my voice?
Voice training
There’s three main elements to vocal gendering, weight, size, and pitch.
For size, you’ll want to maximise your oropharyngeal space (that’s essentially how open/large your mouth and throat is). If you hold a yawn, speaking in that posture provides a good example of the kind of changes you want to be moving towards. Speaking more loudly with higher airflow handles weight. And then it’s just a case of going as low in pitch as possible. You can practice scales to increase your range, reducing your pitch floor.
Honestly, pre-T it’s probably going to be a struggle. There are lots of great resources on /r/transvoice although admittedly it’s more so aimed at voice feminisation. The concepts are the same, you just want to do the opposite.
https://selenearchive.github.io
This might be helpful. There is a more limited set of masculinisation clips.
besides T, I'm a trans woman who's voice never dropped. As a "Young man" I had to sound masculine because well my egg didn't crack until I was 40.
I need to caveat that I'm an athiest, and do not suggest this because of belief, it's just the thing that worked for me in the 90s as a "man" trying to not sound like a woman.
Gospel music, specifically Amazing Grace, try singing it as low as possible from the belly while feeling a buzz in the lungs.
People can control where sound comes fom when talking, femine voices come from the top of the airflow for me it feels like just by the back of the roof of the mouth, masculine voices come from the bottom of the airflow like a cats purr feel it in the collar bone. You can get the registar by making a humming sound and deeping it as far down as possible, you should actually feel a vibration in the lower jaw and collar bone. Then once you get that vibration down start singing Amazing Grace, it's easy lyrically but encourages a deep voice.
That was my method, I would do it while driving every day, eventually I realized I was never a man and transitioned female. Now I have to do the opposite.
I think you look like a young cis guy honestly. You’re probably in that in between stage where it depends on the context of the situation whether they’re profiling you as a young guy or woman rather than something about you yourself. I find in some situations people think I’m a guy but in others they assume I’m a woman.
i think you’re right, it seems to be a work issue and commonly a university issue, but in public strangers think i’m just a young dude which is always nice and reassuring
Yeah honestly you’re not doing anything to cause it, I think it’s a case of you look too young of a guy to be at uni or whatever so they assume otherwise.
hopefully T will help then. on track to have my first endo in feb so very excited
sobsbsss why are you even asking thissss i was so confused when i saw this post cos i thought it was a mtf who hadnt started transitioning. literally nothing gives it away you look totally 100% like a guy. <3
thank you 🙏🏻 it’s hard at the moment because i’ve been getting misgendered a lot so i’ve really been doubting myself. i guess i was hoping redditors would be brutally honest 😭😭
We are brutally honest. You look good dude! I had to double check the sub that this was in because at first I assumed it was a male grooming or looksmaxxing sub
I am being brutally honest :3
You pass excellently I think. I wouldn't know remotely
Erm you look male in those photos. My guess is it your voice that is female
Handsome young man
I mean, I think you pass, just to get that out of the way. For voice-related stuff, there is FTM voice training out there- I know there's a YouTube video for it, just do a search.
But I will say that if being stealth is at all important to you, now or in the future, posting photos of yourself on a totally open site like Reddit has the potential to make that extremely difficult. People do trawl these trans subreddits for pictures so they can try and dox people or harass them or whatever else. It honestly freaks me out when I see people post identifiable photos like this, because once they're up, they're out of your control. Just be careful, is all I'm saying.
Take up more space. This advice is, of course, with a pinch of salt because it's encouraging something that cis men do as an entitlement, but yeah. You seem to be making yourself small in a couple of the photos you've shared.
Try shoulders back, posture upright. Think of what it feels like to simply be powerful - that's what men feel like, whether they know it or not, and that's what gets attached to masc performance.
You look a great deal like my trans male friend. I never think of him as anything other than a dude. Voice might be part of it, as others have said, but looks wise, I reckon you’re there.
you pass very well visually, so since your pre-T i think it’s your voice that’s giving you away. until you get on T voice training will be the only thing you can do i think
You look like a young John Flansburgh from They Might Be Giants, and that is absolutely meant as a compliment! 👍🏻
At this point you probably just need T unless you can do voice training and that's why you don't pass.
In pictures you pass but it's hard to tell if you completely pass because there's a lot missing from photos like vocal patterns, context of interactions, voice pitch, mannerisms, etc.
You look like a teen boy to me. So much so I wanted to check you weren’t MTF before commenting…
So I hope that’s a comfort!
Brother? You already pass to me man. Like genuinely I wouldn't have figured that out if your post title didn't literally say it lol.
Maybe that's useless for you idk? But you look like handsome young lad to me.
Pass as what? Visually you are fairly androgyness. If it's to pass as male then lack of beard shadow, voice and mannerisms/body language are the most likely.
Do the people at work know you're trans? Cos if not and these pictures are fair then it must be voice or something dude
i mean the customers, they always call me “the lady”
Honeslty weird. You look like a boy in the pictures totally.
Reading the comments I see you haven't started T yet. I'm positive that will soon solve this for you. Hang tight and good luck homie
you look awesome
Had to double check what sub this was cos that title had me confused lol. Like others have said, it’s gotta be your voice
If ur 18+ id say u probably get misgendered because u look younger and maybe ur voice isn't deep yet. Get to working out (building up muscles and probably upper body mostly ftm fitness will probably have stuff and make sure ur eating enough and enough protein) voice train or start hrt when u are able to and just wait a bit u have a great starting look and u do pass but u could pass better/ more for ur age. Honestly though sometimes cisgender people are misgendered and it's getting more prevalent currently so don't take it to heart too much (I know that's hard to do but yea)
One thing that might not be helping appearance wise is that you look like a very young teen, like i would guess ab 14. If you are in a context where you are clearly older than that e.g. at work people might go with fem terms bc it doesnt make sense for you to be a 14yr old boy. Most likely voice is part of it too, but that might be part of it.
I'm not even saying this to make you feel better, I genuinely thought you were MtF until I read the comments. You pass super well
dude seriously I wouldn't worry about it. You fr pass so well. If anyone were to misgender you I'd assume it was just from you looking quite young (tho that's v common for trans people) or more just the polite manner in which you talk (I've met u irl). I wouldn't say it's your voice or a voice training thing, tonally your voice is quite masc - if people at your work call u 'the lady' it's probs more a reflection of you being nice and polite, thus being 'the lady' amongst men - but that doesn't mean they're particularly clocking you as trans ?? At least I wouldn't say so - overall you pass really well, so I think it's more just a joke than anything ? I wouldn't take it personally tho :/
you’ve met me??!
haha yes, only fairly briefly tho at CHM and we didn't talk much, tho I did clock u as trans, tho I just assumed that was cuz I'm trans too, plus u were mutuals with an old friend of mine who is also trans, so it just kinda added up lol - hope you're doing alright tho :)
omg no way! may i ask what your name was? i’m sure id remember you! and i hope you’re well too!!
it's Eden. most people don't realise I'm trans tho - at least these days - and just assume i'm a woman (or, well, a girl really) which kinda sucks, but it's whatever.
and thanks! things aren't going too great tbh, but it is what it is ahah. Hang in there, and I hope you have a good Christmas!
i’m sorry to hear that, please don’t be afraid to reach out even if it’s just someone to rant too, you were really kind and i wouldn’t mind if you wanted to chat to me about anything. you have my insta after all :)
ah thank you so much! I really appreciate it, and I'm here if you need too - always happy to listen! feel free to message anytime :)
nope 100% transdar is a thing I will believe it
Shortly after coming out to a friend at work she said 'oh you should meet this guy he's a trans guy maybe you'd get along'
For reference i ended up never meeting him properly
One day this guy and his dad walks in to the shop, guys was about 18ish, hood up, really couldnt see much of his face, but there was something about him that just seemed either off or familiar (even though im mtf), i dont know what it was, he passed perfectly (Or nearly evidently).
Couple minutes later my friend comes up to me and says 'oh that guy on your till in the white hoodie was the guy i was telling you about.'
I am convinced we have a six sense for it
I think you pass really well already!
visually you pass very (i mean very) only I assume a lot younger than your actual age (same for me even on T - only started levelling out on my 4th year). in certain circumstances, because I have longer hair for vintage styles I get misgendered as well - remember misgendering is not just a trans experience. visually, not much we can do - you look fab.
general mannerisms shouldn't make much of a dent really, it'll help very rarely but it's more effort than it's worth and you'll naturally swing into the groove of who you want to be anyway.
I do recommend requesting voice training, clinics can get those far quicker than other affirming therapies. Purely because it's not often requested for transmasc folks - and it's worth it, I got it after starting T for more medical reasons, but it did also help my vocal confidence.
In the meantime, being louder and more confident in delivery helps. It's hard, it'll feel gross. But most of 'gender' in voice is down to how you present what you have. Also voice training - renee yoxon on yt is good (and more).
I see from comments you are close to being on T, so it's a good point to start vocal training anyway for the sake of flexibility!
No offence, but I wouldn't be able to guess what gender you are just by looking at you, so I couldn't misgender you if I tried.
Wow. I thought you were a guy looking for advice about feminisation. You look great in the photos.
I guess that facial hair will help you look older.
Your gait might need work. Look (glance) at other men - see how they sit with their legs apart on the train. Watch films to see how othervmen walk, legs straight, no hip swing and a bit of cowboy at a gunfight vibe.
And of course there's voice. Loads of contributing factors to change it: Relax your face. As an exercise puff your cheeks and then blow a floppy raspberry - that's the feeling you want. When talking try to talk from your upper chest / chest cavity.
Source: I do voiceovers and radio. Ironically I'm cis male but sometimes get misgendered on the phone when I forget to put my manly voice on - so I have practice switching modes.
Use your chopsticks. It's uber cishetmale to have niche skills.
You look like any of the lads I worked with, if a little younger.
my guy you already pass
looking at the pictures I'm going to be honest, picture 1 looks like a guy in drama class, picture 2 looks like a bro being a silly viking, picture 3 looks like the dude is having a chinese meal.
So if by pass you mean you're a trans guy, you look like a cis man about 19 years old.
Use coconut oil on your face every 3 days, shave the after applying. Let body hair grow, go short back and sides and change the top to be a little shorter, dont dye hair. Get some contacts, and use a mouth ball to grow jawline muscles, or chew lots of meat. Start building muscles, up aswell. Doing chest exercises will get rid of any breastfeeding tissue you might still have (if you havent had surgery.
I was very confused, I just see a guy. Took me a second to realise what sub I was on. You pass by a lot I think.
“How can I pass” YOU LITERALLY DO.
Honestly, you're good. You look more boyish than manly but I assume that's pre-T stuff. Give it time.
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