My cis boyfriend wanted to get some jumpers today so we went into Primark.
Found some he liked but wanted to check his size so we went to the changing room. It was a big surprise.
Woman only on one side, other genders the other, and the attendant gave the vibe of a TERF gestapo. My boyfriend commented what is this to me, what does this mean? At that point he was given a token for the items he wanted to try on and frogmarched to the “other genders” just in case he was to go to the woman’s changing room.
I was in two minds to get something for myself to try on and see the reaction (I pass well) but really did not have time as it was getting late and wanted a coffee at Costa where I was greeted with “what would you like mam?”
Although I nor my boyfriend were directly affected by the attitude in Primark, I felt and smelt the transphobia in the place and it was horrid.
Unfortunately some individuals are just shit. Primark is a mixed bag of being really inclusive, especially to their staff, but also having women only changing rooms and the kind of stories you experienced. M&S tends to be better.
Good to have him as an ally.
Edit: didn't notice you were trans at first so changed last line. BF is clearly a great ally.
Nearest M&S is 14 miles away. Not much else in the town I live
I travel by train to mine. They are lovely and worth the effort.
Is M&S the one that publicly apologised for the crime of employing a trans woman?
It was more nuanced than that. The employee said the entire management right up to regional manager were incredibly supportive and backed her fully. It was the PR team that fucked up.
The PR team never publically apologised to the trans employee or made an official statement to that effect. They went out of their way to reassure the transphobes, whilst allegedly quietly supporting the trans employee. This was mostly inferred from social media posts. (Someone came on here claiming to be that employee, but this was never verified by the mods.)
Your downvote is not deserved. Many of us felt let down by M&S on how they dealt with this.
I'm pretty sure the employee here was the employee in question - everything squares with how M&S is set up and (without revealing anything) I could identify the location.
But you are absolutely right, M&S badly fucked up in public. There seems to have been some work taken place - last time I went they couldn't have been more helpful.
I'm glad to hear that. Reward good service.
I mean their actual public statement in response wasn't actually transphobic or throwing the employee under the bus anyway, from what I remember. It was just a snarky "Sorry you feel that way" essentially
Maybe this thread and the links therein might refresh your memory.
M&S publicly apologised to the customer for having a trans employee ask them whether they needed help from the fitting assistant.
No public apology was made to trans people or the employee following this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/s/OuCPgfjG0i
“We understand how important this milestone is for her, and we are truly sorry that it did not go as you had hoped.”
Funny, I don't see a refutation anywhere in these links
That's the apology for the the mother and daughter, regarding the milestone of the daughter's first bra.
Nothing was said in defence of the trans employee (or trans employees).
Had a mother complained about a black man asking whether he could get them help, or had this been a muslim woman asking if she could get them help, and had the mother complained about a scary black man or a scary muslim assisting them, M&S would have defended their employee.
Continue with the gaslighting, dickhead.
EDIT: actually, FUCK OFF. (You are blocked, prick.)
I haven't been in Primark for a while. Maybe I'll just avoid them from now on, whether I pass or not.
I feel I have a duty to oppose this by not enriching transphobic organisations.
Don’t boycott on rumour or press reports, Find out for yourself.
Yes, I know.
However, Primark are already suspected of exploiting workers in poor countries. Transphobia would be the final judgement, as far as I am concerned.
The last time I was there I didn't have a problem. I may check them out again.
If I see any signage that suggests trans women are unwelcome or treated as men, then they are my enemy.
Hey! I used to work at Primark. Not just in-store, but at their offices.
Primark's top level is incredibly inclusive. Their head of security is a non-binary person (info available on LinkedIn). They want to include trans people.
Their women-only dressing rooms are due to creeps looking into young girls' dressing rooms. Not due to trans women. In fact, Primark supports self-identifying and if you say you are a woman, you are allowed into the women's dressing room, no matter how you present. They are not allowed to argue with you. If a staff member does not let you into the women's, or says or acts in any other way disrespectful of your gender, you need to reach out to their online Customer Service and tell them which store, what time, what member of staff, and how it made you feel. They will provide you with an apology and I promise they do actually investigate with the store, staff member, and they do do training on this subject. In-store issues regarding staff comments on a customer's gender are treated with a higher priority than your usual "staff was rude" complaints. Yes, because it's sensitive and they want to make sure they don't get any bad PR, but I promise you, also because their top level actually cares.
There are many things wrong with Primark but this isn't one of them.
This is all correct, but it's also important to say that primark has had a few controversies regarding trans employees in the past; most notable was the legal case in 2018 but workers have had to threaten union action to be allowed to wear pronoun badges etc.
They could fit better changing cubicles instead of using silly curtains that can slide open with a mere brush. That would make girls and their mothers more comfortable as well as trans people and anyone who doesn't want to be looked in on by creeps and weirdos. I can't imagine that anyone feels especially comfortable in them. There's a big difference between feeling you can get on with trying clothes on without worrying, and feeling that someone might mistake your curtain for their friend's or family member's curtain.
Why don't they fit better cubicles? It's not as though they can't afford to.
They have fitted hooks now that hold the curtains in place. I'm honestly not sure why they don't change to proper doors with locks!
I imagine that curtains have the effect of hurrying people along due to the feeling that the longer they are in there, the more likely someone is to look in, or something of that nature. It's not for the benefit of the customers.
EDIT: the same type of people who determined that uncomfortable plastic chairs in a McDonald's makes people less likely to sit around after finishing their happy meal, or who designed public benches to prevent homeless people from lying down on them.
Don’t shop at Primark - horrible place
Not going to again. Really did not know about them.
i think it’s always good to be weary as trans people when it comes to things like changing rooms because people are just stupid and bigoted.
i do really think it’s more about where you are and who’s working. my best friend works at primark and she’s possibly the best cis person when it comes to trans issues i’ve ever met and she would definitely not be weird to anyone passing or not.
It obversely will depend on who is (wo)maning the changing rooms and the way this woman behaved was not nice, just felt she was judging all that went in there inc woman, like they had to pass a test or something.
But in all, staff or not. The changing room naming is hyper transphobic.
Women only Other genders
oh yes absolutely the naming is ridiculous. these companies stooping to stupid transphobic shit is rude and frankly embarrassing.
I work in Primark it's actually 'women' and 'any gender'.
that’s not really any different when trans women aren’t considered women
Well based on appearance alone I think some TERFs would fail that one lol
I'm guessing it's not enforced and people can use which ever side they feel comfortable in. otherwise I imagine it could backfire considering some TERFs aren't the most convincing of women.
I don’t pass well, but when guided to the men’s changing room, I give a mildly offended look and say ‘no, it’s this one’ No one ever makes a fuss and usually apologise.
That sucks for what it's worth as a trans woman who works in Primark fitting rooms and generally in my store at least we tell every one that we have women only and any gender rooms and customers go where they see fit
What department was this in?
Must say m&s are just fantastic i have been there quite a few times the first time was for a bra fitting i had a customer start to have a go at me and a couple or staff shut her down so quick plus had some customers stick up for me as I don't look fem in anyway I recommend them 100% .
Why can't people mind their own damn business...
I’m going to do my last Xmas shopping sounds a good idea to go there today. I have not been to this shopping centre before as only moved a year ago. I prefer not to say where
I have a question if I have little to no growth I’m only a month on e will they still do one??? Bra fitting I mean since I really need one
If you’ve got minimal growth, I really recommend getting a bralette/sports bra multipack online, you can measure bust and band and get an approximate size on many amazon listings, and they are designed to be stretchier and adaptable to growth-in-progress I feel. There’s some variety in style so check the reviews. I’ll graduate to a proper fit when and if I’m big enough for it
ATM I’m wearing a push up bra so I got as much as I can really so it looks like there’s a lot there
Primark has had its all gender changing rooms for a while now but I just look at it from the pov they have a changing room for Terfs then a changing room for normal civilised people
had a similar experience in a Primark, the attendant sneered at me and said 'yours is on the first floor.'
I hadn't been in since they'd rebadged the men's as 'all genders' so I was a bit taken aback by how blunt it was
I was only a few years in and tbh preferred gendy nooch spaces at the time, but the sneer and the not knowing they'd rebadged really got to me
I think primark is a very mixed bag My experiences have all been good ones, ive gone with friends to try on some stuff and staff have always let me go to the women's side. 1 time a staff member gestured over to it after my friends went in and I started walking towards the other so they are pretty good. They've also never seemed judgey when taking dresses to try on, even without passing at all. So I quite like primark from my experience but I guess it must be a case to case thing
I don't like Primark myself but that's cuz my closest one is at meadowhall and I dunno if it's like it in all Primarks but it is like radioactive hot in there, makes me sweat baaad
It's not the most pleasant shopping experience. I don't know if it's the lighting. I think they use halogen bulbs or Cree type LED lamps, and in places the ceilings are really low. There are no windows and they've probably skimped on proper air conditioning.
...And the changing cubicles don't feel private enough, with their silly sliding curtains, which can be whipped open by anyone outside. They've got some system to keep the curtains in place, but I'd feel much more comfortable with a door with a latch. Very off putting, as I like to take my time to decide if I like a clothing item on me or not, and curtains seem designed to hurry people.
I guess this is why I haven't been in one for ages.
Having looked, the changing rooms are 'Women Only' and 'Any Gender' and (unless they've updated their policy further, since 2022), transgender women and girls are meant to be able to use the 'Women Only', providing they are not 'abusing' this system. This labeling seems vague and open to reinterpretation, so who knows what this means 3-4 years since to staff there.
I'm so sorry you had to experience that :(
I had a similar experience in Primark. I was with a friend who at the time had very very recently come out publicly as trans, and was very nervous. Myself having been openly trans for 2 years at the time, decided to take my friend out shopping to get her some easy, feminine clothes to begin with, and then we'd work our way up to things like dresses.
Anyhow, we pick out around 8 items for her to try on, get to the changing rooms, and I playfully say that we have 8 items to try. Exchange goes as follows:
Me: "Hii, we have like 8 things to try on if that's ok"
Them: "This is the women's cha-"
Me cuts them off
Me: "She's trans", and I just look at the worker directly in the eyes, unwilling to budge.
The worker then just stands there, and eventually lets my friend in.
I wonder if these people are given a policy to work by and if this is willful ignorance.
Their policy is that the dressing rooms are self-identifying.
Well, the question is, are the staff told this clearly. Helps separate the dummies from the malicious if one of them behaves this way...
Well, this worker let OP's friend in after confirming she was a woman, even though she seemed to have been confused for a moment. They are told the policy, they have to follow it, if they don't and they get reported they and their store manager get a serious investigation and talking-to.
Seems I read the same comment differently than you did:
...Sounds to me that the worker yielded reluctantly because the OP made it clear she wasn't going to be fucked around.
Hence my question. Was this worker slow but informed about the policy (a dummy), not informed, or informed but a bit of a dickhead.
(If they are informed, it can't be that confusing, can it...)
Didn't expect this many replies to my post 😅 but yes, I can confirm I was not in the mood to be fucked around with that day.
Having to navigate the world as a very newly open trans person a couple years prior, it was extremely nerve wracking and scary.
So I tried my best to make sure my friend didn't feel anywhere near what I felt when I first was looking at femme clothes in stores trying to try them on.
Maybe I was 'too hostile', but having experienced the "this is the women's" myself, I immediately went on the offensive.
I don’t like Primark due to them checking your clothes before and after changing rooms, I know it’s an anti-stealing measure but I had the same grumpy stare experience as this
I liked Next but the one near me closed down. The Select near me wasn’t best reviewed and a phobe worker misgendered and kicked me out of the changing rooms, saying ‘it was lucky women weren’t there at the same time as you’ - I guess implying predatory discomfort or something
I don’t buy clothes any more except for the rare Amazon ones as replacements. The shine of fashion has worn off a bit 😢
I avoid Primark because I know there's a lot of potential transphobia there but tbh they don't stock much goth stuff lol. I bought some stuff from Scarlet Darkness but they're only online. Really good dress though I absolutely love it and where it every chance I get cause it makes my little trans heart sing
Yes the signs are so weird and the staff are always so terfy
I've never had a problem in Primark but then I never use changing rooms.
I saw a young male staff entered the woman only changing room right after having adjusted his balls and dick. Feel it’s no longer a woman only space but believe Primark would say they had no manpower and female staff were arranged not to push the garment rail trolley.
I find this Reddit community or whatever this is does not allow free speech, even though I had my operation at 21 in 1990 started at 17 in 1986, a male to female transsexual woman and am not amused.
I’m very sorry you do not feel free to express yourself, this is a friendly Reddit for all things trans and NB.
We all get down voted sometimes unfairly often due the anti-trans bots and TERFS that lurk here.
I have not seen any comment here from you other than this please explain
Is this related to OP’s post at all? Doesn’t seem to be. You make this suggestion but your account has negative karma, idk what happened but you deserve to share your experience as long as it’s respectful
Karma ok, carry on dear.