Man whatâs the point of turning 18 anymore if that happens. You can already have a job and vote and do taxes, but still canât drink until 21.
Update (after many comments with what you could do at 18):
-Age of consent is lower in some states and poorly enforced everywhereÂ
-No, you really canât call yourself an adult
-You can go to military academies (officer training) at 17 (but yes, you can go to war at 18)
-gambling ages vary from state to state and so do smoking/vaping
-you are allowed to handle and use firearms before 18, you just canât be the one to pay for it (to anyone who thinks this is absurd, itâs for hunting)
Legally, thatâs 18. Lowering the voting age would just allow people who are (usually) considered still too mentally immature to be independent to participate in elections.
I mean the whole 21 thing is stats based. Prior a large chunk of dui accident deaths in America and other deadly things related to alcohol use were caused by under 21 year olds. No one cares what you privately do at home, the intention at least is about safety. Also itâs beneficial to your brain development to not use it as well.
I always thought that was dumb until I got that side of it.
Man, it was a TRIP being in the military when that happened. Imagine being a service member, who had been smoking for 2 years due to the stressors and social acceptance and told âjust kidding you canât buy those anymore but thanks for going to Iraq!
Thankfully most deployed locations we went off of local laws so anyone could buy them (and drink, cause we were AF and had those privileges)
Actually, that's more or less a misconception, at least in Texas, you can drink whenever you are of appropriate age, I think that it's 14 and older. The trick is you're not allowed to buy alcohol until you're 21. And giving a minor alcohol can be charged as child abuse. It's something along the lines of cannibalism. In the US, cannibalism is not necessarily illegal; it's how you obtain the meat that makes it illegal.
i just think itâs wholly absurd. let alone the fact that itâs a total ploy to get more votes since most young folks are usually more left-leaning.
this is giving the same energy as big corporations changing their logos to âsupportâ pride; they donât actually care about us. weâre only one of two things to them: a statistic or a potential income source.
i might, but i have very little faith that the average teen my age or even older do lol
besides, all of those dumb adults used to be 13 just like me, and yet theyâre still dumb. so iâm positive there are plenty of people my age that are just as dumb if not dumber and should have absolutely no say in the future of the country
I don't even think it would work in their favour too much.
An absurd amount of young people's political beliefs align towards the right. It's so easy to manipulate people in the 16-18 category into racism, sexism and transphobia.
Even though it's not most of them, they're a very vulnerable age demographic to target for these kinds of things.
Most young people haven't learnt the struggles of a lot of minorities and heavily discriminated against groups, and just go off what they hear about online (which tends to be more common as I'd say quite a large portion of young people tend to not have many friends and not leave their homes much.
It's kind of a gamble whether adding that age group would even benefit the Democrats at all, and honestly from how shockingly terrible they have been presenting themselves in their campaigns for the past... 14-18 years, I really don't think under 18s are going to benefit them much, and could even work against them.
The issue with the belief of have you seen the dumb thing insert age here does they shouldnât vote is that every age does dumb things.
Look at people in their early 20âs plenty of them will go on alcoholic benders and do reckless activities for fun, why because they spent much of their childhood restricted in the activities they could partake in and suddenly a whole world of activities opens up to them.
Should a person who is going out drunk and going to a strip club for example be allowed to vote despite the seemingly childish behaviour.
The place I live in has approximately 200.000+ people, And you guys at the US have 340 million people, that would be less than 1% of the damn vote and smaller than my whole hood. That guy was steamrolled so hard it would be classified a rollsteam.
hate to break it to you, but every generation has thought the same thing at your age and still most were highly influenced by one side or the other. I'm all for the idea, but to think you're the first generation that isnt influenced is just incorrect.
âStep into the world of AI with the most knowledgeâ - what does this mean? What kind of knowledge? Like, how to effectively promote ChatGPT or Claude?
It definitely cannot mean the most technical knowledge. Itâs well documented that Gen Z/Alpha are losing the technological prowess that Milennials had, because consumer electronics are so easy to use.
Gen Z new hires to white collar office roles struggle to operate Windows machines.
yes, this scares me tbh. It keeps getting me work though because new people will come in (well, even some old people) and hand me something that chatgpt or another AI did and have no idea why its broken or even how to troubleshoot it when its super simple. I use AI sometimes, but its only useful when you already have a good understanding of the topic and want to learn a little more, but can also weed out the BS. AI doesnt understand context and that hasnt meaningfully changed in 4 years. Then it trips over itself after a few iterations of problem solving.
Now, that Iâve seen the cycle a few times, Iâm pretty confident youâre exactly the same as everyone else.
We all think weâre different, and yet we all seem to do the basically the same things over and over and over again. Hell, the whole thinking weâre different is part of that cookie cutter pattern.
Also, hate to break it to you, but the whole âweâre young and the future and weâre going to radically reshape the systemâ started with the Boomers and continued with every generation ever since. Whenever you hear âyoung peopleâ talking like that, youâre just hearing the disembodied voice of the Boomers. And yet, the earlier generations were clawing for transformational change too. Itâs what the Boomers grew up in and why they thought they were going to change the world.
Lastly, no. Youâre not the first generation of âdigital nativesâ. That usually given to the âMillennialsâ. I say usually because a lot of Gen X folks were in their teens when the internet was born. Theyâre the ones who created a lot of âinternet speakâ we still use today. That said, Millennials were called the first generation to be almost universally online from a young age. Thatâs what the phrase âdigital nativeâ was even coined for.
Your confident ignorance on all of this isnât making a good case for why 16 year olds should be allowed to vote. Coherent voting requires knowledge and understanding. If you have been around long enough to have much experience, you wonât even know what you donât know.
We have regressed. Not advanced. Stagnated even regressed. We have lost rights. We have consolidated more executive power. We have blown open, bluntly, white nationalism and white supremacy. Congress has gotten progressively worse. More and more wealth continues to be stolen from the american people. Courts are corrupt. How much more can you name? Lots. Statistically we live more similarly to pre great depression, pre new deal. So we have regressed that far back in some aspects
As someone in the workforce dealing with training this current generation of teenagers, what Iâm seeing is a bunch of kids way too reliant on AI in college that are struggling to catch up with simple technical tasks in a way I havenât quite seen before. Itâs a little worrisome. This generation also definitely heavily struggles with networking skills. My job is particularly tech heavy so nobody over 40 really âcanâ do it. I say that because those in the 28-38 range had to actually deal with and learn the advances in tech before it was ridiculously easy like it is now. The real advancements were made 2010-2020. While AI has been a crazy development, I wouldnât necessarily call it a tough one to catch up on.
I think youâre misunderstanding the point of why she wants to do this
This may be true but the younger generation being more involved and informed on politics is pretty objectively a good thing regardless of the motives of those behind the policy.
Every generation has stupid and gullible people being swayed by societal pressure and effective propaganda. If you think you are immune to it, you are part if the problem. The average person is stupid and oblivious to propaganda, the below average are worse, and the top average know they are influenced and act accordingly.
Since when is politics an industry? And in what way are we influence differently compared to our uncles and grandmotherâs?
I also canât quite get the hang of the last two paragraphs and politicians already influencing 16-year-olds ?
I can understand why you are frustrated at politicians for sometimes disregarding their morals while writing legislation or like a company, expanding their voter base. But in order to live in a democracy, you will have to live with that. There is simply no democratic way to prevent that.
I looked this up to verify, and every other study says something different. Some say young people favor democrats, some say republicans, and some say they hate both.
In my experience, more young people are republican my age, but I also hang out with people who lean republican more, since I do as well. It would be the same if someone was democratic and hung out with people democratic.
I feel like itâs a gender split. Males are definitely more republican/donât care, and women are definitely more democratic/donât care.
Not really. It's a strong consensus that older gen Zs lean left, it's specifically younger gen Zs that have been found to be, compared to older gen Z "more open to Republican candidates" but don't necessarily identify as conservative either.
Younger gen-Z are more mixed and undecided, which makes sense: they're young and need time to form their identity.
Older gen-Z, however, match up with millenials and more often lean progressive.
GenZ may be the most conservative, but they are not mostly conservative. The top comment is absolutely right in that the sole purpose of this to increase democratic votes. It's on par with gerrymandering.
Expanding democracy is not "gerrymandering." If the voting age was 30 and it was being advocated by democrats to be lowered to 21, you could argue that's gerrymandering as well by your logic. Nothing wrong with giving young people a say in their future.
You're naive if you believe 21 year olds and 16 year olds are intellectually matched. Based on your argument, why stop there? Let's "expand democracy" to 5 year olds as well.
You keep linking that study to support your claim despite the fact that it's irrelevant to the conversation and, even then, it doesn't even support the argument that you're making. Rationality without experience is moot. From your study: âAdolescents are going to be more likely to use cost-benefit analysis than the (simple rules) that adults use. That can get these kids into a lot of trouble."
There IS something wrong with giving young people a say in their future; they don't have the life experience to understand the consequences of their actions. This is why they are not held to the same standard as adults in the eyes of the law.
Or do you believe all 16 years old should be tried as adults in court? Any answer other than "yes" completely invalidates your statement that there's "Nothing wrong with giving young people a say in their future."
Tbf Republicans don't really do anything to stop that. Mention hourly pay or cost of apartment rent and it's met with ridicule or insults from Republicans who then proceed to explain why everyone should just be happy with shitty things.
Listen to metal or rap - get an earful about how bad it is. Dress differently - same. Conservatives really don't get young people at all.
Just aggressively controlling, strict, and uptight without actually offering anything.
I dont get why you're being downvoted when this is literally the case. Yes, youngsr people are generally more progressive but thats NOT why people care about being active on social media. Teens are just easier to influence so we're an obvious target
It's likely a ploy to gain favor. I prefer her over Trump any day of the week, but the voting age being lowered to 18 from 21 actually had a reason in the sense that 18 is when all males are required to register for conscripted service, which was a problem because you could go to war, but you couldn't vote for guy who sent you in the first place. There was a pragmatic reason then, this feels too kind to be true. If a gift is more generous than it need be, odds are you have something they want.
You could apply the same reasoning to every other problem in our society there are problems that influence 16-year-olds that are very important but we just ignore that because we assigned different values to problems. Maybe having to say in your own fate during war is something that concerns you and you find important so do I.
But what about mental health a lot of of 16-year-olds have mental health problems shouldnât they be allowed to have a say?
You could really extend the thought and ask why and two-year-olds allowed to vote because the health system also applies to them?
Thatâs willingly though. The difference is that you are required to enlist to potentially be drafted at 18, being forced to fight for a country led by a president you couldnât vote for. If you join the military at 17, you chose to do that.
All fun and games until they justify drafting a sixteen y/o to fight in some war (Money on Venezuela rn but who knows where) bc he has the right to vote. It would be like the opposite of when they lowered the voting age to 18 to match the draft age during Vietnam.
My best friend thinks this is a wonderful idea, but I really, really don'tđđ
Surveys show most public-school teachers lean Democratic, and research consistently finds that their teachersâ views and framing strongly influence students. Thatâs why Kamala wants to lower the voting age to 16. Many teens are still forming their political beliefs in environments shaped by authority figures rather than independent life experience.
itâs also tha more young ppl r leaning left by their own indepantant beliefs. the only way i heard any teacher talk about politics was in a historical way or to hate on the old state super intendant(i live in oklahoma) they arenât shaping the minds of youth as much as u think
16 year olds don't know jack shit about real life. Even 18 year olds don't know anything, but they can be drafted so they get a vote. If we were basing the ability to vote off development, you would set the voting age at 25ish. There's no logical reason to let anyone younger than 18 to vote.
Iâve met plenty of 16 year olds who are smarter and more emotionally mature than dozens of adults Iâve met. Why should certain clueless people get to vote strictly because of their age?
Iâm 16, I consider myself relatively mature, but I wouldnât want the right to vote at my age. There still is too much compulsion and not enough education on the extent of a candidateâs policies for most people my age to properly manage and form a well informed opinion.
i think they mean that a 16 year old would vote the same as their parents adding more votes to the respective parties. not voting via representation, which only counts as 1 vote regardless of children or no children
Thatâs your personal social circle of people who have not had the same universal living experiences as the rest of the country. I mentor smart 16 - 18 yr olds that would put me and my coworkers to shame, yet they donât understand simple things like how food ends up on shelves. Thereâs a big difference between being smart and being knowledgeable
Some teenagers are definitely more intelligent than some adults. But adults have had more time to have experience. Intelligence alone is not enough to determine political decisions.
As Willard Van Orman Quine said in his criticism of logical positivism, every statement has its meaning dependent on two things: 1) a vast network of knowledge and beliefs, and 2) the speaker's conception of the whole world. (See at Analytic Philosophy > Metaphysics > Quine | Wikipedia).
The latter can only be attained to a good extent with time.
In another sense, logic only works to provide good results when you got your assumptions (or axioms) right. If you assumptions don't neatly map to reality, your results won't too.
And you can only get them right with experience. What seems very clear may end up being completely flipped after you get exposed to some other data.
Itâs changing a lot now afaik. The amount of right leaning high schoolers has shot up recently from what I see around me and it might not necessarily apply to the states but if a law like this came to Canada I think that the Conservative Party would definitely come out on top. Then again, the right in Canada and the right in the states are two totally different ideoligies.
i dont think this is a good idea bc teenagers r so immature and easily influenced and fall for lies so so easily.
edit: yes there r some immature adults and some super mature teens. but as a whole, teens r more likely to be immature than adults literally bc of their still developing brains and how susceptible they r to trends and social media and media illiteracy. adults can be those things too, but it is much more prominent in teens. i say this as a teen.
Difference is it has been scientifically proven that teens have less developed brains, whereas science shows that men and women are equal in that regard. Pease use some common sense here.
High school aged people should be directly involved in our democracy. I am 42 and work as a poll worker. I might be the youngest volunteer at my polling station.
Setting up High Schools as polling stations operated by high school students gets people involved early. Some of those people will stick around and keep doing it, providing a pool of people to help in future elections near their homes.
A lot of people who can vote donât vote because they donât understand the process as an adult. 18-29 year olds have the lowest voter turnout rates, this would demystify the process, getting those people registered and participating early.
This is good policy, good civics, and will lead to better prepared, better informed, voters.
Anyone saying teenagers are stupid is mistaking ignorance for stupidity. The best way to address ignorance is education, which is what this would do. It would also reduce the number of ignorant adults who donât vote or who do vote without an understanding of the impact and consequences.
Gonna sound like a boomer now, but lowerig the voting age like 20, 30, 50 years ago would have had sense (when teenagers actually gaf about their country) but right now? Young people, especially teens would vote for anyone who's "funny". Like f.e, I bet if jojo siwa started a campain teens would vote for her "just for the plot". Because it would be "funny". So the concept itself is good, but unfortunatiely the society we live in currently isnt
Itâs the idea that a switch magically flips the day you turn 18. Itâs so instilled in people, even teenagers, to the point that itâs disturbing.
Many people I am surrounded by in my college who are my age consider 16 and 17 year olds to be literal children. Not minors, but children. Doesnât matter that they just turned 18 five months prior, itâs what they are told.
Yet where I live, you can operate a motor vehicle, pay taxes (taxation without representation), legally consent, and can be tried as an adult at that age. If you are allowed to drive a multi-ton death machine down a public road, I feel that you should have the sense and the ability to vote for the future that you want to live in.
Exactly! I am no different now than I was a year ago that would justify me not having had the right to vote in the presidential election, the only difference is that I am now 18, rather than 17. I fail to see the difference.
its fucking rediculous and i feel like its gonna keep the same people in power for longer. The UK is doing it over here (though i have a feeling its a desperate attempt to cling onto power by kier since he seems to think people like him) and i hope it scares the shit out of politicians and actually makes them think about younger people
If a person is 17 when an election occurs they canât vote in it, but they will be an adult for the majority of the term. Also, while kids are often misinformed and uneducated on political issues, so are adults.
My opinion: Inheriently it sounds like a terrible Idea but I think if people take educational classes about it then they could earn the right to vote, otherwise it could be given at 18
Donât they already do this? I like the idea because then schools could get everyone registered to vote. Although I agree it would exasperate the problem.
The DNC when they realize their weak centrist candidate sucks so they come up with the great idea of shifting further to the center and running and even more watery campaign with a weak candidate (this will fail, and to fix it they will shift to the center again):
This is not true actually. This study was biased and wrong + it only focused men. In truth your brain never stops developing. And when your best mentally fit to vote or do anything is arbitrary and varies person to person.
Good. More people should be allowed to voice their opinions on issues legally. Especially considering alot of 16 year Olds have jobs and participate in society
Hell no. First of all I donât want to carry that burden of a responsibility while Iâm literally in high school second of all most 16 year olds are not mature enough to be voting
Iâm in my 30s and I support it. I think anyone whoâs old enough to work âon the booksâ = pay taxes on their income should have the right to vote.
here in brazil our voting age is 16. iâll be able to vote next election (next year) and i am NOT READY for this shit. so thatâs a horrible idea tbh
They shouldnt, because 16 year olds are easily ma isolated by tiktok edits and podcasts. Kids watching edits of trump and listening to dumbasses like nick Fuentes rant about how black people and women dont deserve to vote and need to become slaves immediately become convinced and join the alt right. Kamala thinks 16 year olds are smarter than they really are.
What the hell are you talking about? You really think there is a fair share of teens who want "women and blacks to be slaves"? Like wtf not even the most far-right conservatives I know advocate for this shit. You are absolutely delusional, what world do you live in bro?
Because they think they can easily manipulate you (sorry. Not a teen but came up on my populars). Yâall have more influence than you think, donât listen to anyone who tells you youâre âjust kidsâ. Teenagers can change the world. Use critical thinking and donât fall for pop culture. Youâre worth more than thatÂ
Man whatâs the point of turning 18 anymore if that happens. You can already have a job and vote and do taxes, but still canât drink until 21.
Update (after many comments with what you could do at 18): -Age of consent is lower in some states and poorly enforced everywhere -No, you really canât call yourself an adult -You can go to military academies (officer training) at 17 (but yes, you can go to war at 18) -gambling ages vary from state to state and so do smoking/vaping -you are allowed to handle and use firearms before 18, you just canât be the one to pay for it (to anyone who thinks this is absurd, itâs for hunting)
I guess so you can call yourself an adult
So you can watch in horror at how powerless you are to stop the rich 2 years earlier.
You can already do that
No, not in the same way. It's much, much worse knowing you voted a measure into law personally only to have it go completely unenforced.
Hahaha yeah, turning 18 is the mark that you've become an adult.
I know of 30-40-50-60 year olds who are still children.
Legally
Legally, thatâs 18. Lowering the voting age would just allow people who are (usually) considered still too mentally immature to be independent to participate in elections.
Right, but whoever is elected when someone is 16 is going to have a huge impact on the world they enter as an adult.
17 year old women đ¤¨|đ
"Seventeey year-old girl-" "Seventeen year old Woman."
Tbh I think everyone reaches diff types of maturity at diff ages so it's low-key arbitrary at this point
Well you can get sent off for war! Isn't that so fun?
I mean the whole 21 thing is stats based. Prior a large chunk of dui accident deaths in America and other deadly things related to alcohol use were caused by under 21 year olds. No one cares what you privately do at home, the intention at least is about safety. Also itâs beneficial to your brain development to not use it as well.
I always thought that was dumb until I got that side of it.
Tbf, the only value in turning 18 in the US is buying cigarettes and selling your body to the military or the rich.
You canât buy cigarettes at 18.
Yeah, saw a law was passed 6 years ago. My brain likely forgot it as I was older by the time that law past.
Man, it was a TRIP being in the military when that happened. Imagine being a service member, who had been smoking for 2 years due to the stressors and social acceptance and told âjust kidding you canât buy those anymore but thanks for going to Iraq!
Thankfully most deployed locations we went off of local laws so anyone could buy them (and drink, cause we were AF and had those privileges)
Or even smoke cigarettes, use vapes, etc...
If they don't think young people are mature enough to drink/smoke until 21, maybe they aren't the best judge of who should be their politicians.
Tbf, statistics show that they arenât. There is a disproportionate amount of DUI related deaths/accidents of people 18-21 compared to 21-25 range.
Why is everyone so pressed about drinking? It isn't that great
Actually, that's more or less a misconception, at least in Texas, you can drink whenever you are of appropriate age, I think that it's 14 and older. The trick is you're not allowed to buy alcohol until you're 21. And giving a minor alcohol can be charged as child abuse. It's something along the lines of cannibalism. In the US, cannibalism is not necessarily illegal; it's how you obtain the meat that makes it illegal.
horrible idea
iâve seen what some of u mfs get up to on this sub đđ
smartest 13 year old.Â
 and im actually being serious. ive seen people older than me not say smth this smart
why thank u kind stranger
i just think itâs wholly absurd. let alone the fact that itâs a total ploy to get more votes since most young folks are usually more left-leaning.
this is giving the same energy as big corporations changing their logos to âsupportâ pride; they donât actually care about us. weâre only one of two things to them: a statistic or a potential income source.
well said. we need more people like you who actually use their brains
Young lean left because they are in school reading the constitution and taking tests on it. Older people donât care. Itâs maddening.
The teens alone college kids are also exposed to lots of types of backgrounds and cultures in school which is hard when you become an adult
Iâll agree that most younger people lean left(more so younger women). Your reasoning behind why is completely bizarre.
the irony is that your comment proves you have more insight than many adults thus should be able to vote
i might, but i have very little faith that the average teen my age or even older do lol
besides, all of those dumb adults used to be 13 just like me, and yet theyâre still dumb. so iâm positive there are plenty of people my age that are just as dumb if not dumber and should have absolutely no say in the future of the country
ok but for real, voting shouldnât be based on how âsmartâ one thinks they are. it should just be a right tha everyone has
I don't even think it would work in their favour too much.
An absurd amount of young people's political beliefs align towards the right. It's so easy to manipulate people in the 16-18 category into racism, sexism and transphobia.
Even though it's not most of them, they're a very vulnerable age demographic to target for these kinds of things.
Most young people haven't learnt the struggles of a lot of minorities and heavily discriminated against groups, and just go off what they hear about online (which tends to be more common as I'd say quite a large portion of young people tend to not have many friends and not leave their homes much.
It's kind of a gamble whether adding that age group would even benefit the Democrats at all, and honestly from how shockingly terrible they have been presenting themselves in their campaigns for the past... 14-18 years, I really don't think under 18s are going to benefit them much, and could even work against them.
Wow, are you actually 13? Your point is really well made, and I swear I've never heard a 13 year old use the word "ploy" properly haha
The issue with the belief of have you seen the dumb thing insert age here does they shouldnât vote is that every age does dumb things.
Look at people in their early 20âs plenty of them will go on alcoholic benders and do reckless activities for fun, why because they spent much of their childhood restricted in the activities they could partake in and suddenly a whole world of activities opens up to them.
Should a person who is going out drunk and going to a strip club for example be allowed to vote despite the seemingly childish behaviour.
People are gonna vote for Kanye west or something
Adults elected Trump too so letâs not get ahead of ourselves.
and allowing 16 year olds to vote just opens the door for more Trump supporters
apparently Gen Z americans are pretty republican
They did the same thing in the UK recently and other places.
Sly bastards you might think yayyy they want us to have rights. Fuck no.
Every industry is realising ( and quickly jumping at opportunity) that our generation is a completely different ball game.
We arent influenced the way our uncles and grandmothers are.
If they lowered it to 16, they grow their reach massively over the years. Which is also why alot of them are jumping to social media campaigning.
Example: Actors and superstars jumping into the tiktok and streaming industry.
Same applied with this just on a more serious and larger scale
A reminder that Kanye West ran for president in 2020. He got 60,000 votes.
So he got 0.03% of the vote. That's less than a rounding error.
He announced his 2028 run a few months ago.
Seriously?? After that crashout he had earlier this year?! I thought he was done for!
Why?
For fun ig
Isn't he like a proud Nazi or some shit?
Yes
lmfao yo I should vote for Kanye đđ
The place I live in has approximately 200.000+ people, And you guys at the US have 340 million people, that would be less than 1% of the damn vote and smaller than my whole hood. That guy was steamrolled so hard it would be classified a rollsteam.
hate to break it to you, but every generation has thought the same thing at your age and still most were highly influenced by one side or the other. I'm all for the idea, but to think you're the first generation that isnt influenced is just incorrect.
The point wasnt that we arenât influenced lol,
its that we are influenced in a completely different way.
We are the first generation of teenagers with the largest social and technological network in history.
We are the first to step into the world of AI with the most knowledge.
Our parents dont know fuck all about this stuff.
We are in a crazy era i hope you see that, from 2010-2025 we have advanced more than we have from 1960-2000.
1960-2000 we created and discovered the tools.
Now its been applied and has reshaped and rewired society.
Take a walk in a city and everyone is looking down, what at? Phones, ipads, laptops.
Someone who lived in 1950 would find this horrifically disturbing.
âStep into the world of AI with the most knowledgeâ - what does this mean? What kind of knowledge? Like, how to effectively promote ChatGPT or Claude?
It definitely cannot mean the most technical knowledge. Itâs well documented that Gen Z/Alpha are losing the technological prowess that Milennials had, because consumer electronics are so easy to use.
Gen Z new hires to white collar office roles struggle to operate Windows machines.
yes, this scares me tbh. It keeps getting me work though because new people will come in (well, even some old people) and hand me something that chatgpt or another AI did and have no idea why its broken or even how to troubleshoot it when its super simple. I use AI sometimes, but its only useful when you already have a good understanding of the topic and want to learn a little more, but can also weed out the BS. AI doesnt understand context and that hasnt meaningfully changed in 4 years. Then it trips over itself after a few iterations of problem solving.
Now, that Iâve seen the cycle a few times, Iâm pretty confident youâre exactly the same as everyone else.
We all think weâre different, and yet we all seem to do the basically the same things over and over and over again. Hell, the whole thinking weâre different is part of that cookie cutter pattern.
Also, hate to break it to you, but the whole âweâre young and the future and weâre going to radically reshape the systemâ started with the Boomers and continued with every generation ever since. Whenever you hear âyoung peopleâ talking like that, youâre just hearing the disembodied voice of the Boomers. And yet, the earlier generations were clawing for transformational change too. Itâs what the Boomers grew up in and why they thought they were going to change the world.
Lastly, no. Youâre not the first generation of âdigital nativesâ. That usually given to the âMillennialsâ. I say usually because a lot of Gen X folks were in their teens when the internet was born. Theyâre the ones who created a lot of âinternet speakâ we still use today. That said, Millennials were called the first generation to be almost universally online from a young age. Thatâs what the phrase âdigital nativeâ was even coined for.
Your confident ignorance on all of this isnât making a good case for why 16 year olds should be allowed to vote. Coherent voting requires knowledge and understanding. If you have been around long enough to have much experience, you wonât even know what you donât know.
"Our parents dont know fuck all about this stuff."
You do realize that generation is the one that created them right?
We have regressed. Not advanced. Stagnated even regressed. We have lost rights. We have consolidated more executive power. We have blown open, bluntly, white nationalism and white supremacy. Congress has gotten progressively worse. More and more wealth continues to be stolen from the american people. Courts are corrupt. How much more can you name? Lots. Statistically we live more similarly to pre great depression, pre new deal. So we have regressed that far back in some aspects
As someone in the workforce dealing with training this current generation of teenagers, what Iâm seeing is a bunch of kids way too reliant on AI in college that are struggling to catch up with simple technical tasks in a way I havenât quite seen before. Itâs a little worrisome. This generation also definitely heavily struggles with networking skills. My job is particularly tech heavy so nobody over 40 really âcanâ do it. I say that because those in the 28-38 range had to actually deal with and learn the advances in tech before it was ridiculously easy like it is now. The real advancements were made 2010-2020. While AI has been a crazy development, I wouldnât necessarily call it a tough one to catch up on.
I think youâre misunderstanding the point of why she wants to do this
This may be true but the younger generation being more involved and informed on politics is pretty objectively a good thing regardless of the motives of those behind the policy.
Every generation has stupid and gullible people being swayed by societal pressure and effective propaganda. If you think you are immune to it, you are part if the problem. The average person is stupid and oblivious to propaganda, the below average are worse, and the top average know they are influenced and act accordingly.
Since when is politics an industry? And in what way are we influence differently compared to our uncles and grandmotherâs?
I also canât quite get the hang of the last two paragraphs and politicians already influencing 16-year-olds ?
I can understand why you are frustrated at politicians for sometimes disregarding their morals while writing legislation or like a company, expanding their voter base. But in order to live in a democracy, you will have to live with that. There is simply no democratic way to prevent that.
You sir, can vote.
Most young people are democratic or democratic leaning so strategically, of course she would want this
Especially Redditers
I looked this up to verify, and every other study says something different. Some say young people favor democrats, some say republicans, and some say they hate both.
In my experience, more young people are republican my age, but I also hang out with people who lean republican more, since I do as well. It would be the same if someone was democratic and hung out with people democratic.
I feel like itâs a gender split. Males are definitely more republican/donât care, and women are definitely more democratic/donât care.
Not really. It's a strong consensus that older gen Zs lean left, it's specifically younger gen Zs that have been found to be, compared to older gen Z "more open to Republican candidates" but don't necessarily identify as conservative either.
Younger gen-Z are more mixed and undecided, which makes sense: they're young and need time to form their identity.
Older gen-Z, however, match up with millenials and more often lean progressive.
Young people in America 100% lean left
nah we have a very strong right leaning community among young white men
White young men are a minority of young people though?
Thatâs because youâre on teenager reddit as your socialization, Gen z is the most conservative generation currently
GenZ may be the most conservative, but they are not mostly conservative. The top comment is absolutely right in that the sole purpose of this to increase democratic votes. It's on par with gerrymandering.
Expanding democracy is not "gerrymandering." If the voting age was 30 and it was being advocated by democrats to be lowered to 21, you could argue that's gerrymandering as well by your logic. Nothing wrong with giving young people a say in their future.
You're naive if you believe 21 year olds and 16 year olds are intellectually matched. Based on your argument, why stop there? Let's "expand democracy" to 5 year olds as well.
You keep linking that study to support your claim despite the fact that it's irrelevant to the conversation and, even then, it doesn't even support the argument that you're making. Rationality without experience is moot. From your study: âAdolescents are going to be more likely to use cost-benefit analysis than the (simple rules) that adults use. That can get these kids into a lot of trouble."
There IS something wrong with giving young people a say in their future; they don't have the life experience to understand the consequences of their actions. This is why they are not held to the same standard as adults in the eyes of the law.
Or do you believe all 16 years old should be tried as adults in court? Any answer other than "yes" completely invalidates your statement that there's "Nothing wrong with giving young people a say in their future."
Tbf Republicans don't really do anything to stop that. Mention hourly pay or cost of apartment rent and it's met with ridicule or insults from Republicans who then proceed to explain why everyone should just be happy with shitty things.
Listen to metal or rap - get an earful about how bad it is. Dress differently - same. Conservatives really don't get young people at all.
Just aggressively controlling, strict, and uptight without actually offering anything.
Younger people are more easily manipulated
I dont get why you're being downvoted when this is literally the case. Yes, youngsr people are generally more progressive but thats NOT why people care about being active on social media. Teens are just easier to influence so we're an obvious target
Because young people donât like that theyâre being referred to as easily manipulative..
I guess
It's likely a ploy to gain favor. I prefer her over Trump any day of the week, but the voting age being lowered to 18 from 21 actually had a reason in the sense that 18 is when all males are required to register for conscripted service, which was a problem because you could go to war, but you couldn't vote for guy who sent you in the first place. There was a pragmatic reason then, this feels too kind to be true. If a gift is more generous than it need be, odds are you have something they want.
You could apply the same reasoning to every other problem in our society there are problems that influence 16-year-olds that are very important but we just ignore that because we assigned different values to problems. Maybe having to say in your own fate during war is something that concerns you and you find important so do I. But what about mental health a lot of of 16-year-olds have mental health problems shouldnât they be allowed to have a say? You could really extend the thought and ask why and two-year-olds allowed to vote because the health system also applies to them?
Isnât it possible to join at 17 if youâve completed highschool?
Thatâs willingly though. The difference is that you are required to enlist to potentially be drafted at 18, being forced to fight for a country led by a president you couldnât vote for. If you join the military at 17, you chose to do that.
Conscripted service is not the same as volunteering to join. If you want it, sure, but when you're getting conscripted, you don't have a choice
All fun and games until they justify drafting a sixteen y/o to fight in some war (Money on Venezuela rn but who knows where) bc he has the right to vote. It would be like the opposite of when they lowered the voting age to 18 to match the draft age during Vietnam.
My best friend thinks this is a wonderful idea, but I really, really don'tđđ
Wait for people to say if you're old enough to vote, you're old enough to consent.
They arenât going to draft anyone if we go to war with Venezuela
Surveys show most public-school teachers lean Democratic, and research consistently finds that their teachersâ views and framing strongly influence students. Thatâs why Kamala wants to lower the voting age to 16. Many teens are still forming their political beliefs in environments shaped by authority figures rather than independent life experience.
itâs also tha more young ppl r leaning left by their own indepantant beliefs. the only way i heard any teacher talk about politics was in a historical way or to hate on the old state super intendant(i live in oklahoma) they arenât shaping the minds of youth as much as u think
This is conservative hogwash. The largest influence on a childâs political upbringing is their parentsâ political views.
16 year olds don't know jack shit about real life. Even 18 year olds don't know anything, but they can be drafted so they get a vote. If we were basing the ability to vote off development, you would set the voting age at 25ish. There's no logical reason to let anyone younger than 18 to vote.
Iâve met plenty of 16 year olds who are smarter and more emotionally mature than dozens of adults Iâve met. Why should certain clueless people get to vote strictly because of their age?
Iâm 16, I consider myself relatively mature, but I wouldnât want the right to vote at my age. There still is too much compulsion and not enough education on the extent of a candidateâs policies for most people my age to properly manage and form a well informed opinion.
Same exact argument was used to prevent women from gaining voting rights in the 1920's BTW
By even acknowledging the need of political education at all, youâre already a more competent voter than most voters.
The average person decides how they vote based on whatever side they circlejerk harder in.
16 is pretty much as reasonable of a voting age as 18, if we donât take the military drafting age thing into account.
16 year olds are also much more likely to be influenced/forced to vote for a certain person by their parents
In my experiences that couldnât be farther from the truth
Thatâs already how it works. When parents go out to vote now, they are representing their children as well.
i think they mean that a 16 year old would vote the same as their parents adding more votes to the respective parties. not voting via representation, which only counts as 1 vote regardless of children or no children
Same exact argument can be used agianst women voting. I mean it already was
Because we have to set the limit at somewhere, that's why.
Thatâs your personal social circle of people who have not had the same universal living experiences as the rest of the country. I mentor smart 16 - 18 yr olds that would put me and my coworkers to shame, yet they donât understand simple things like how food ends up on shelves. Thereâs a big difference between being smart and being knowledgeable
Sure. And many adults are not knowledgeable.
Some teenagers are definitely more intelligent than some adults. But adults have had more time to have experience. Intelligence alone is not enough to determine political decisions.
As Willard Van Orman Quine said in his criticism of logical positivism, every statement has its meaning dependent on two things: 1) a vast network of knowledge and beliefs, and 2) the speaker's conception of the whole world. (See at Analytic Philosophy > Metaphysics > Quine | Wikipedia).
The latter can only be attained to a good extent with time.
In another sense, logic only works to provide good results when you got your assumptions (or axioms) right. If you assumptions don't neatly map to reality, your results won't too.
And you can only get them right with experience. What seems very clear may end up being completely flipped after you get exposed to some other data.
I am not either party really but this is the clearest attempt to garner more votes since the younger generation will vote democratic
Younger people have almost always leaned further towards the left when voting, it's no wonder democrats want that
Itâs changing a lot now afaik. The amount of right leaning high schoolers has shot up recently from what I see around me and it might not necessarily apply to the states but if a law like this came to Canada I think that the Conservative Party would definitely come out on top. Then again, the right in Canada and the right in the states are two totally different ideoligies.
I am a democrat so this may seem beneficial but it seems sort of dangerous.
i dont think this is a good idea bc teenagers r so immature and easily influenced and fall for lies so so easily.
edit: yes there r some immature adults and some super mature teens. but as a whole, teens r more likely to be immature than adults literally bc of their still developing brains and how susceptible they r to trends and social media and media illiteracy. adults can be those things too, but it is much more prominent in teens. i say this as a teen.
Iâm not saying that you are wrong, but itâs worth noting that these are the exact arguments used against the idea of allowing women to vote.
There are many, many adults who are drastically more immature, unintelligent, and naive than some 16 year olds.
Yeah but women aren't immature or easily influenced, teens are
Genetic fallacy
Difference is it has been scientifically proven that teens have less developed brains, whereas science shows that men and women are equal in that regard. Pease use some common sense here.
HELLL NO
She's about to run for something. Don't get manipulated.
How about capping it at 65 instead?
terrible idea, most teenagers including myself are dumb and irresponsible asfuck
Honestly not a good idea. Weâre pretty dumb gang
Old person with a drive by hot take.
High school aged people should be directly involved in our democracy. I am 42 and work as a poll worker. I might be the youngest volunteer at my polling station.
Setting up High Schools as polling stations operated by high school students gets people involved early. Some of those people will stick around and keep doing it, providing a pool of people to help in future elections near their homes.
A lot of people who can vote donât vote because they donât understand the process as an adult. 18-29 year olds have the lowest voter turnout rates, this would demystify the process, getting those people registered and participating early.
This is good policy, good civics, and will lead to better prepared, better informed, voters.
Anyone saying teenagers are stupid is mistaking ignorance for stupidity. The best way to address ignorance is education, which is what this would do. It would also reduce the number of ignorant adults who donât vote or who do vote without an understanding of the impact and consequences.
Gonna sound like a boomer now, but lowerig the voting age like 20, 30, 50 years ago would have had sense (when teenagers actually gaf about their country) but right now? Young people, especially teens would vote for anyone who's "funny". Like f.e, I bet if jojo siwa started a campain teens would vote for her "just for the plot". Because it would be "funny". So the concept itself is good, but unfortunatiely the society we live in currently isnt
I find it disturbing how many people in these comments are advocating for getting rid of their own rights O_O
ikr i saw a comment that said "i don't want to have the right to vote"
Itâs the idea that a switch magically flips the day you turn 18. Itâs so instilled in people, even teenagers, to the point that itâs disturbing.
Many people I am surrounded by in my college who are my age consider 16 and 17 year olds to be literal children. Not minors, but children. Doesnât matter that they just turned 18 five months prior, itâs what they are told.
Yet where I live, you can operate a motor vehicle, pay taxes (taxation without representation), legally consent, and can be tried as an adult at that age. If you are allowed to drive a multi-ton death machine down a public road, I feel that you should have the sense and the ability to vote for the future that you want to live in.
Exactly! I am no different now than I was a year ago that would justify me not having had the right to vote in the presidential election, the only difference is that I am now 18, rather than 17. I fail to see the difference.
Edit: autocorrect failure
Hell, people could be born one week apart and one will be able to vote in the next election and one will not. That is insane.
I was born November 23, my birthday is literally like, 9 days after election Day đ
its fucking rediculous and i feel like its gonna keep the same people in power for longer. The UK is doing it over here (though i have a feeling its a desperate attempt to cling onto power by kier since he seems to think people like him) and i hope it scares the shit out of politicians and actually makes them think about younger people
Watch the people who want to lower the age of consent to 15 cry out against this
Why are you downvoted? You're absolutely fucking right.
(I think they want it even lower than 15 though)
why stop at 16? let sperms vote too.
If a person is 17 when an election occurs they canât vote in it, but they will be an adult for the majority of the term. Also, while kids are often misinformed and uneducated on political issues, so are adults.
sixteen year old neo nazis finna run wild
tbh wouldnt rlly change that much cuz most kids woudnt even be interested
Heâll naw itâs stupid she ainât helpingÂ
My opinion: Inheriently it sounds like a terrible Idea but I think if people take educational classes about it then they could earn the right to vote, otherwise it could be given at 18
The political party responsible of the education will then propagate or be accused of it
Donât they already do this? I like the idea because then schools could get everyone registered to vote. Although I agree it would exasperate the problem.
Imo anyone of any age should have to pass a basic competency test before voting. Just as many clueless 40 year olds as 16 year olds
I feel like we tried this before and it was heavily abused...
by we you mean racists
"by we" they mean "as americans". stop trying to villainize people you disagree with
I agreeÂ
In a utopian world that would be great but that is incredibly dangerous, itâs such an easy thing to abuseÂ
no god no, this is bringing only harm and no good.
No and honestly who gives af what she thinks
The DNC when they realize their weak centrist candidate sucks so they come up with the great idea of shifting further to the center and running and even more watery campaign with a weak candidate (this will fail, and to fix it they will shift to the center again):
She literally called people 18-21 stupid. She flips shit around so much itâs annoying. Iâm glad she lost.
all i can say is that if my cousin is able to vote sheâll probably be high while she does it đheck no kamala
If anything raise it to 21, when the brain is best developed
This is not true actually. This study was biased and wrong + it only focused men. In truth your brain never stops developing. And when your best mentally fit to vote or do anything is arbitrary and varies person to person.
Hell nah. She may just wanna do that cuz theyâs a lot of democrat teens
Thatâs exactly why she wants to do that
errmmm no. im 16 đ
This isnât real
16-17 should be non-obligatory.
People who want to lower the voting age know the younger people would vote for them
Voting without even a high school diploma is a horrible idea
 I donât think itâs a good idea
No
Yes, cause the youth deserve to be heard
If you are paying taxes you should get a vote...period.
Yes, 16 year olds are more politically conscious than 60 year olds, yet the former has no voting rights, and the latter does
PLEASE! would really like to vote next election
No taxation without representation. Seems absolutely fair to me.
No taxation without representation was a reason Americans did a 1700's bud light boycott.
So it's amazing. I believe a 16yo should basically have the same rights I do. What can't they do that I can at 33?
Good. More people should be allowed to voice their opinions on issues legally. Especially considering alot of 16 year Olds have jobs and participate in society
If 16 year olds pay taxes then yea they should
It seems every 16 year old is employed these days so they should have a say
There needs to be a voting ceiling, frankly.
She knows that the younger demographic would vote her, that's why.
Fuh naw
Hell no. First of all I donât want to carry that burden of a responsibility while Iâm literally in high school second of all most 16 year olds are not mature enough to be voting
Iâm in my 30s and I support it. I think anyone whoâs old enough to work âon the booksâ = pay taxes on their income should have the right to vote.
Terrible idea regardless of what political âsideâ you take.
I'm not in America, but I don't think it's a good idea. They should do some referendums for people between 13 and 18 tho, I think
Stupid as fuck. We should actually rise the voting age to 20.
Very telling that she feels like she needs the youngest and most easily manipulated to be able to vote for her. LmfaoâŚ
this is actually a really bad idea
I donât want kids that say six seven and watch skibidi toilet deciding the leader of the free world
thats mostly gen alpha
Nah my school has seniors who say six seven
Because a president that says 67 and watches Skibidi toilet would be worse than what we have now
Skibidi Biden
would it tho?
here in brazil our voting age is 16. iâll be able to vote next election (next year) and i am NOT READY for this shit. so thatâs a horrible idea tbh
Voting in Brazil is optional for ages between 16 and younger than 18, to the illiterate, and above the age of 70. You can choose not to vote?
WHY LOWER IT FOR GODS SAKE IT IS TOO LOW AS IT ALREADY IS (18 and feel absolutely like my generation should NOT be allowed to vote)
People in your generation are nearing 30...
Oh sorry im not fucking TWELVE
Everyone should be allowed to vote.
that is a crazy and stupid idea
horrible idea. there is a literacy crisis rn. most 16 year olds would not care and js pick whatâs popular on tiktok or what their parent voted
They shouldnt, because 16 year olds are easily ma isolated by tiktok edits and podcasts. Kids watching edits of trump and listening to dumbasses like nick Fuentes rant about how black people and women dont deserve to vote and need to become slaves immediately become convinced and join the alt right. Kamala thinks 16 year olds are smarter than they really are.
What the hell are you talking about? You really think there is a fair share of teens who want "women and blacks to be slaves"? Like wtf not even the most far-right conservatives I know advocate for this shit. You are absolutely delusional, what world do you live in bro?
I would vote for Caseoh. Idgaf if he ain't running he getting my vote.
Kamala, girl, I love u but NO đâ ď¸
finally actually a comment that's respectfull to Harris
Should be the same as the drinking age.
no. all the 16 year olds i know have ZERO maturity whatsoever
Hell no. 18 is low enough.
In my lifetime they lowered the age from 21 to 18. We thought that would change everything. It didn't.
Still, I'd lower the age to 14 if I could. It would force the candidates to speak to young people publicly, and take them seriously when they talk.
Because they think they can easily manipulate you (sorry. Not a teen but came up on my populars). Yâall have more influence than you think, donât listen to anyone who tells you youâre âjust kidsâ. Teenagers can change the world. Use critical thinking and donât fall for pop culture. Youâre worth more than thatÂ
Nah we need a voting age limit. People who are dying in a year shouldn't vote with their old ideas.