I've been taking a very long time to just analyze the point of split pushing: It gives gold, turrets, but the most important part is it forces someone to react to your push otherwise their turret is gone (like 550 gold which is insane). The reason this is so nuanced is that you are technically killing the enemy who's stopping you for splitting (without the gold) as well as removing yourself from the team fight meaning that if the enemy is extremely fed or pivotal (like a 10/0 darius or a malphite) and/or Yone is weak (behind or close to IS/IE) then splitting is incredibly useful. I mean thinking about a teamfight the whole point is to take out the most important play and typically it's the ADC because they deal the most damage and are easy to kill, to take out an even more important player without any risk is obviously a win even to take yourself out of the fight plus the fact that Yone is reliant on gold whilst an already fed carry just wants to impact the team fights. The second half to this is when I would think "What if I have taken the tier 2's (besides mid which is fair) but I'm still weak", well at that point you'll have 3 items and the best thing I would do would be to just show up to the fight and hope that my teamfighting is great enough, because at 3 items Yone can eliminate any adc's with a half-decent flank, all I'd do is wait for the fight to start and flank and that's it. In other comps where there's some Amumu you can go front to back and wait in a bush with a stacked Q3 (this is the only advantage I see besides protecting the carries but like I'm in plat 4 so idrc if my adc isn't good, if they are that's different). and then go on the follow up if the frontline is somewhat squishy. If there's anything I'm missing or I'm completely wrong I'd really like for you to give me that feedback.
Also just a note: When you do give me feedback no matter if you're iron-challenger I'm still gonna debate just to get a deeper understanding, not because I don't believe you.
You split to manage the waves, evenly distribute the exp/farm across the team, and force enemies to defend. If Yone is much behind the enemy, he cannot splitpush; he will have to wait for the fed enemy to shove and the respond to it and he will likely need additional teammates to stop the 10/0 enemy Darius will forces your teammates to be at a disadvantage elsewhere on the map
If Yone is more fed than the enemy, then Yone can do the opposite and force enemies to respond to the push and it can give his teammates advantage to do other things
Now the most effective counter to the splitpush is a hard engage. Like if yone is 20/0 but is splitted on the side of the map, then the enemy’s options are to either send number of champs to kill Yone or engage onto enemy 4 without Yone
So how should it be ideally against a hard engage comp or a situation where you think you can be more useful in teamfights? Push just the right amount so that enemy has to respond + you are safe, and then do other things such as grouping + starting a fight or warding etc.
Splitpushing doesn’t mean you permanently isolate yourself from your teammates until you die which is a stupid strategy
Edit: sorry but i have no idea what you are talking about in the second half of your questions
Ok that does make a lot of sense, so then tell me why would an ahead Yone be better split pushing then turning up to a 5v5? Edit: ignore the second half it means nothing
These two are always valid options. Whether to split or group really comes down to the composition. Sometimes you could be fed but your teamfight be dogshjt and viceversa. Also as i mentioned, if enemies don’t really have a hard engage and Yone is gigafed, he can split safely without getting punished easily. For example if enemies comp is something like a sett xin anivia jinx lulu for example, they don’t really have a hard engage and Yone and his teammates can be splitted relatively safely. On the other hand if they got something like Kled Noc Leona, then enemy can punish the splitpush.
Another reason is if you have a shit comp. Imagine something like Yone Teemo Jayce Ashe Lux against idk enemy with frontline and engage. Then you can still lose fights despite being ahead in gold as a team
Again, you can and should do both splitpushing and grouping. Split to create a leverage and then group to cash in on the leverage etc. most people misunderstand splitpushing as to push until you die. No, your teammates are powerless when you split and they are even more powerless when you are dead.
Ok, ok. I just want to ask something really important. Can you end by splitpushing? If my team is absolute dogshit in teamfights and I just totally ignore them and end the game?
You can win or lose by doing anything in this game. If enemies don’t respond properly, then yes?
Like I’m being serious here, let’s say I’m on tier 2 and there’s no one there whilst there’s a 4v5 on drake do I just absolutely run it down and take everything I can?
I already answered your question
Can you die by eating only healthy food? Yes if you eat too much you can. Can you live long by eating only junk food? Yes if you control portions and do other good stuff
So the answer is yes, just ignore team fight and go for their nexus?
Can you read over your questions and think about it before asking?
Dude I’m sorry I’m like just confused here, yes or no I have low confidence in areas I don’t really understand.
But is your teammate useless because they are really bad? Or are they useless because you are mispositioned on the map? That’s something you should think about objectively rather than auto-blaming them
Just team comp, the enemy is fed and my team is a poke comp with no engage and frontline vs a team that’s pro play level perfect (in composition) all skill aside.
I think to generalize what u/Longjumping_Idea5261 was trying to say is that split pushing is not a stand alone strat, but an option to win the game.
Instead of thinking about whether you should split, you should think about how you can create the biggest advantage.
For example, if you are the only fed member on your team with low cc/peel, and enemy has a malzahar, grouping with your team will probably pay off less than split pushing.
If you are the only fed member on your team, but enemy is ahead with malphite/j4/samira or some combination of hard engage, you might want to group to defend the 5 man pushing your inhibitor tower because your team will just get ran down 4v5.
Taking it further, the game is much more nuanced than "to split push or to not split push". When you push a sidelane you are making the enemy respond on the map in a certain way, by moving the enemy members around the map, you create openings for mistakes, flank angles, or more time for your team to scale. Sometimes it is not about how far down a lane you can push, but rather what you can do on the map because you pushed a side lane.
Yeah thanks, I guess I’ve always thought of what the best strategy is for each game rather than playing the game and trying to think of the best strategy then. Because each game has vastly different strategies needed especially seeing some pros doing arams rather than split pushing or some just split pushing the whole game and others going around the teammates. It’s basically not valid to make a single strategy is stick to it because Yone isn’t that champion
tbh if you really wanted to be a split push only player, try fiora or trundle. I think these two champions in general have the most scenarios where splitting > grouping.
So turning off your brain and just splitting will have the highest chance of being correct on these champs.
There are 3 types of split pushing, and I see you're mixing them.
The first, is when you're weak, to the point team fights are a death sentence. You split push to gather gold and XP, taking turrents is great, but that's not your main goal. You also don't wanna draw any attention, cuz you're weak and anyone might kill you.
The Second, when you're on the avarage, your goal is to take turrents, you're only gonna splitpush like this if the enemy team is busy, wave is close to enemy turrent (or you can push them fast) and you're confident you can do a lot of damage to the turrent. You don't want to attract attention as well, but maybe attention isn't all bad, depending on game state, who and how many comes to stop you, it's a good thing.
The third, If your fed OR avarage on a dedicated splitpusher (Fiora, jax, yorick, trynda, etc...). You want to take turrents AND attract attention. Because 1 person ain't enougth to stop you, it's gonna take at least 2. This allows your team to fight 4v3, while you're 1v2 and might even win.