As the title says I cant figure out what is proper against poke or double poke, I like Alistar but that doesnt work at all tbh.
I was thinking braum, Janna, Pyke but unsure if these are any viable
I am open to any suggestions mainly looking for 2 options against poke, a engage and maybe enchater/poker?
Best play vs poke is to poke better or have a good engage.
Many enchanters can survive lane phase and be more useful late game. But this requires you and your bot later to not int and eat every skill shot.
hmm yeah, defo gotta practice my dodging better in this case, also maybe why my ali sucks this bad against poke
Ali is really good vs poke due to his passive heal and his engage being basically impossible to escape from. His ulti means that no mage played as support has the damage to actually kill you.
The most important thing in these matchups is to recognize which spell is needed by enemies to win an engage. Do your best to bait that ability out and all in.
If you play Ali correctly then you'll be able to play defensive > dodge skill shots > heal with passive > get level 2 or 3 > wait for a good moment to engage and if you do it when enemy has CDs and your adc follows > one trade good trade lets you get ahead and then you should just keep winning. The moment will come unless your enemy is prime Guma and Keria (it will come even then).
This truly gives me some better insight on how to play against these matchups, thanks alot! ill try again!
Good luck! Practise will make it easier to spot these windows of opportunity. You need to have an "indicator" in each matchup that signals when you can go in. For example Lux wasting E lets you go on her quite easily. As soon as she uses it and you and your adc are in engage range > go in, sometimes you even get lucky and dash past her E or she panics from your engage and wastes it.
Nice got me excited to play now LMAO
At the highest levels (pro play), there is no lane that beats double poke. People used to talk about the "support triangle" where poke > heal > engage > poke but that isn't really how it works, it's more just dependent on how strong your champion is in lane.
For example many of the engage supports like Nautilus, Blitzcrank and Pyke, these champions are supposed to abuse their hooks to roam a lot and get advantages in other lanes. And enchanter supports like Lulu and Janna, people typically look at them as scaling supports because they're so strong in teamfights, but in lane they are actually huge lane bullies, but don't have very strong roams.
Real poke botlanes like Caitlyn Lux need to dominate lane. If they fall behind in lane, they get outscaled hard. But in lane it's going to be rough no matter who you pick.
You can try Blitzcrank/Pyke, probably the two best engage options possible. But if you miss your hooks prepare to just be useless until its back up.
I see, this helps me alot seeing I got the wrong idea against this lane then. I shouldnt play my alistar against a poke lane like another lane (or whatever champ I play) I think what might help me is a more passive champ to just "chill" in lane and maybe learn to roam abit more. Do you think braum would be better than Alistar for this direction since he can poke and block which would be the chill part?
No, Braum is considered one of the worst supports into ranged supports.
At least with Alistar you can pair him with an aggressive ADC and if they walk too far up, you can look to engage. Or if your jungler ganks you can help.
Braum can't do anything, he is much better into melee supports because he can easily apply passive for his ADC to stun
Enchanters like Karma or Soraka are solid vs poke since their heals/shields mitigate the poke.
I do like karma from the limited matches I tried, thnx!
Kill em, sustain them, or out poke them. If you're running Alistair just get a hyper aggro duo to play with like Samira main
So a skill issue on my end, my friend plays samira but as Ali I just suck against poke. maybe ill need to watch a video or 2 :D
Alistair is kinda just weak right now but if you're running a good duo maybe y'all need to work on synergy/comms?
sucks to hear but yeah, iam just a mere silver haha, trying to get into it, youre probaly right tho
If you like aggro supports maybe try Naut, Jarvan, Pyke. They stronger than Alistar right now. But with new update tomorrow Alistair might just become rank 1 support
oh really?! thats exciting! and jarvan is considered support?
Q armor shred, e gives aoe attackspeed buff and he has a Knockup. He is veryyy strong early game and falls off like a cliff, isn't good into champs who counter the engage, very roam heavy and his ult is only good against champs that have to flash out of it. But when he meets the criteria he's good, the ult can straight up just lock some champions out or into fights.
yeah thought so, was surprised to see him mentioned! but I like doing some goofy picks from time to time so ill add him to the list hehe
Against poke supports you either want to match it with better poke, or hard engage. Despite his shield braum is actually quite bad against ranged supps because you have no good way to force fights, he is much better at peeling melees. Alistar can be OK thx to his passive and engage however his early levels are fairly weak so he can get bullied quite hard. Stuff like nautilus, Leo, and rell can all be quite good depending on matchup and botlane pairing
I see, thnx for the info on Braum thought he wouldve been somewhat of a solution but seems like not!
If you're playing Alistar vs Poke, then zoom out for a moment and remember there are other places to be on the map. Poke is annoying, but rarely lethal. If the wave-state is okay, you can often find time to visit other lanes, especially as you come out of base. Even returning from a midlane gank can put you in an interesting position vs double poke.
Double poke should always beat an Alistar lane in straight 2v2 normal laning, so don't opt into that. Look for alternate angles. Look for other ways to be useful. This is a team game.
Also, just generally, make sure you're using bushes a lot. A) they can't poke with autos if they can't see you. B) Alistar has a 'threat range' as do most champs. This range is your W range. if they get inside that range, you can get the WQ off. Most people know roughly what this is. A depressing amount of people forget about it if they can't see you. Not all League players have managed to understand object permanence. They get distracted. Suddenly you can find yourself on top of a lane that does its best by keeping you at range.
Ill give this a shot! Thanks alot for your explenation and help here
Scaling enchanter, there's almost no way you fuck it up honestly.
The weakness of enchanters are being all inned, they have strong value in sustained fights. They are effectively defense mages where instead of having offensive pressure with downtime, they have defensive pressure with (often) less downtime (they itemise cdr a lot).
Let's say xerath hits ur adc for 100, you shield about 50? So you halved his trade. Then he's gotta wait for cooldown, you may have a heal that you can use between cooldowns. Eventually ur damage blocked goes to 200, 250, etc (assuming he hits literally everything). You are extrapolating a lot of value based on the fact you have a shield for his poke every time he has an option to cast the poke spell, and when the key spell is used and mitigated you or your adc aren't threatened.
Sona is a very free matchup into things like this, statistically a very horrible matchup for velkoz, xerath and the likes because she gets effectively a "free" lane where her lacking early kit and vulnerability to long trades and dying are mitigated entirely due to the enemies cooldowns and downtime not allowing them to long trade. Her kit is bad early, but it doesn't mean that her spells can't be high value into chip damage. Once again, 1 W is not much if you dont allow her to wait out another. If she's getting to block poke and heal in-between, it is a lot, and it's conditionless.
Alistair does have heal but it's not very good, because it is conditional (either you cc the target or farm minions, both of which are hard into chars with extremely range advantage without taking more damage than you healed). Sona, soraka is not.
I see gives me alot insight on these enchanters thanks, what I gather is to just play safer with an enchanter . thanks alot I will be seeing which enchanter I truly like!
Note that I mentioned scaling enchanters though.
Sona, milio and soraka are very strong answers to many mages since their weak laning is negated by their individual strength in the matchup. A champ like lulu is more versatile sure, but leans less into the "value over time" aspect of enchanters than these characters. Still effective at mitigating damage sure, but more of their kits value is in other spells rather than playing full defense. Like polymorph is one of the most effective tools at shutting down long trades, this is not so useful vs mages who can just space the polymorph. Every enchanter has their use case, lulu's leans into versatility and anti-melee tools more than heal and shields.
Dodge the poke. Or play blitz instead of Alistair.