In season 16, cannon minions begin to spawn at 3rd wave, so first moment in the game you are able to pull recall for cull is after 5th wave, is it really worth to recall for it, if its this late (before 6th wave with 2nd cannon minion)
I used cheater recall nearly everygame i played and i will miss this strat.
im gm ADC player but i cant answer to this question, i would be happy if you give me your thoughts about this topic.
Cannon minion being on third wave is what made cheater recall strong because if you fast pushed the third wave you'd be able to just about get to lane and miss either 0 or 1 melee minions of xp. When cannon minion was moved to fourth wave cheater recall got worse because you had to crash on the incoming wave and you'd miss 2 or 3 melee minions of xp, and potentially cannon if you were slow (this was also exaggerated by the bonus minion damage added qt the same time).
Tldr cheater recall on third wave is better with cannon on third wave, not worse.
oh thank you sm! and is it possible to buy cull if you hit every cs after the gold changes from minions? : )
Unless they've significantly reduced the gold and I didn't read it, then yes, I would be quite surprised if you have less than 450g from 3 waves.
You were able to recall with 500g before so you should be able to buy cull if you last hit every minion
You claim to be a gm but can't do math on minions
Honestly I was doing cheater recalls a lot on the last patch and it worked pretty good, homeguards in s15 were way too strong for my liking already so there was no downside to just basing already.
Enemy mid/jgl got ganked
I come back full hp with a long sword, barely miss any CS
I think I won most of my games where I took a shit trade lvl 2 just because my supp roams after I press B, it was ridiculous.
No, it’s back to how it was and it’s stronger. Cull is also not necessary for it to be considered a cheater.
What is this and how do I do it?
Wave 1 you need to establish priority. Some matchups you just get it automatically because your champion is stronger. But in some matchups it is skill based you have to fight for level 1 prio, it becomes a game of where it's about which champion can shove the first wave more. But also if you lose too much HP you won't be able to contest their push without dying so you have to balance trading and pushing, or ideally both if you have AOE spells.
Wave 2 now that you have prio you get level 2 advantage and they basically can't trade with you because of it. Now you start slow pushing, the most important thing is that you don't crash the wave. If your opponent hits the wave, you have to hit the wave to keep it pushing but you don't want to overpush it.
Wave 3 is the cannon wave, when your third wave connects with your second wave you now have a massive wave, you need to hard shove as fast as possible. It doesn't matter how much mana you use, it doesn't matter how much damage you take (as long as you don't die), you need to crash as big of a wave into their tower as possible.
If done properly, once it crashes you recall, buy an item, and then come back before they crash the wave. This means you have a health + mana + item advantage over your opponent and the wave can be frozen on your side. However they will have an XP advantage so they need to use their level 4 timer to try to break the freeze, if they can't break this freeze they're pretty screwed.
https://youtube.com/shorts/VuFn7VoEEz8?si=3fVrq7rX4FO5I6Pc
Here is an example of one of the things you can do if you get cheater recalled on:
https://youtube.com/shorts/hTFjLTwyUh8?si=fLckIGDXMq5ZJuq_
But also he's playing Draven, one of the only champions that actually can fight while at an item disadvantage. If he is playing something more passive he probably has to rush level 4 first before fighting.
important note, cannon is now on 4th wave, which changes how this works a bit.
What? Isn't the whole post about how they reverted it to be back on the third wave?
Wait shit is it getting reverted? Completely missed that if it's the case, I've hated the minion changes.
I've heard a lot of discussion about how in season 15 cheater recalling might be dead due to it being on 4th wave and completely skipped the post and went to the comments to see what people were saying.
Only a few games into the new season but bew homeguards and arriving back to lane faster made recalling feel a lot better. The post 14:00 homeguards feels like cheating, its just so much faster to get on the map.
Seriously, I suck at top and was playing it in norms and ended up barely being punished for taking horrific trades after pushing. I’m just back to lane so quickly.
Cheater recall is very much still real, especially on champs like riven who can do a second wave crash into proxy recall
If third wave is a cannon I’m not sure it’s very easy to proxy it as riven without dying no?
What? Are you GM and just started playing this year or something? This is literally how it was every season to this, season 15 is more or less what destroyed cheater recalls
Cheater recalls, invades, even roams all aint really working anymore. Unless you ignore the major drawbacks ofc.
Fmpov cheater recall is really just a fancy name for a regular recall after a large crash into the enemy tower. Yes, it's usually the early game one on the first cannon, but it can be applied to any wave at any time for any amount of gold.
Personally I don't think top lane should be allowed to be frozen & I don't think cheater recalls should be a thing. Top lane is already pretty harsh. So I'm glad they're making these decisions.
No it can't. Cheater recall was SPECIFICALLY on the third wave at the start. You would slow push the first 2 waves and crash the third and recall, missing only 1-2 minions when you come back to lane.
Right. If I'm not mistaken, LS coined the term cheater recall. So yes, technically the cheater recall as we know it would be gone, but the principle still exists.
If it isn't possible to freeze, how are you going to punish scaling champs then for picking late game
Well with a perfect lane freeze, the enemy will get 0 minions. Eventually the wave should push back to the losing side without them having to int into the wave for it. Dunno. You might just have to rebalance the champions depending on how they're impacted. But it would be healthier for the game state.
That's the point of freezing and punishing late game picks. They are supposed to be a gamble
Nope, that sounds like a bad take.
Let's all just be happy youre not deciding anything