A politician from a country not directly involved in the conflict saying “let’s just fight” instead of cutting a deal, while at the same time knowing that he’ll never even sniff the field of battle is the most soulless shit I’ve ever heard
We should store these types of admissions in something like a "postmortem confession" database. It could be extensive and easily citable for the next time the US stokes the American war spirit and everyone experiences amnesia again.
How many more times does this need to be made public before people accept it? Not coming to terms and admitting this is the same stubborn mentality as continuing to claim Saddam was supplying WMD to terrorists to use on New York.
Hindsight's 20/20 but damn if this doesn't feel like another "we totally could've avoided this massive clusterfuck" moment that'll get memory-holed in like 6 months
It won’t. The libs are proud of this. Russia can never have a “sphere of influence!” Those days are over! Those hundreds of military bases the U.S. has? Oh, that’s just countries voluntarily allowing us to be there since we’re so benevolent. That’s totally different!
You'd think, after almost four years, western elites could have learned to not spill the beans during unvetted phone calls by now. But no, the trick still works just like before.
I disagree with a lot of the russia glazing I see here but I think a lot of the problems the west has historically had with Russia are due to europeans, and by extension the US, reflexively treating Russia as an outsider and a potential enemy. you can see that in the examples mentioned, where every opportunity for dialogue is met with aggressive posturing, and any russian reaction that results is just used to strengthen their confirmation bias... see also the fall of the Soviet Union and the resulting mess. Russia has historically been treated as a barbarian "other" by europeans and a lot of the disaster of the 20th century was directly shaped by the other European powers (and then the US) trying to limit and "contain" russia.
Russia can absolutely be a superpower and a normal country, but most important thing about Russia (in that regard) is degree of centralization. Russia is INCREDIBLY centralized, extremely even. Moscow or St. Petersburg and the rest of Russia are two different countries. That makes it so so so easy to go authoritarian/totalitarian.
Russia absolutely can be a normal country, but I'd disagree on your take that other countries push it to being shit. It's mostly internal.
no, I didn't say other countries pushed it to shit. that's on Russia. but Europe has historically antagonized and "othered" Russia both because of its percieved backwardness and also its size & potential. it's a specific type of fear and contempt mixed together and you can see it in european attitudes dating back centuries.
This is a profoundly non-dialectical way of looking at it. You can't understand the formation of the modern Russian state without understanding how the existence of any modern Russian state is an inherent existential threat to wall st, the city of London, and the EU. Any large (and any smaller), sovereign state is an inherent existential threat to wall st etc. The only Russian government acceptable to the West was the one led by Yeltsin. All other ones have to be destroyed so they can be replaced with satraps.
Without any context, this reply looks like random things associated with "bad" vs "good". I don't see much bad associated with EU or City of London or anything of this sort. I didn't watch or read things that made you come to conclusions you came to so I can't even meaningfully engage yet with your arguments.
Those guys destroyed Ukraine in the hopes it would also destroy Russia (and then China). They are the bad guys. Putin, Xi, Maduro are the underdogs, despite whatever bad shit they pull. Drop in the bucket compared to Epstein's friends.
Putin - who started the war of aggression, responsible for death of hundreds of thousands of people and destruction of tens of huge cities, forced flight of millions
Maduro - I don't know much about him
THESE guys are UNDERDOGS in your eyes?
Also I don't remember Wall St. shelling Mariupol. And I don't recall EU killing civilians in Bucha. And I know there weren't City of London's soldiers who launch drones at civilian infrastructure to make it impossible to heat homes in winter.
Are you sure that THIS is what you're rooting for?
I think Russians are just taking way too personally what is rather impersonal Great power Politics.
To take a 1800s example:
Oh Great Britain is trying to contain Russian influence in Central Asia and the Mediterranean?
Yea no shit they are, they have their own influence in central asia and the Mediterranean! It's just what happens when two imperial powers have competing spheres of influence!
They did the same to the french for 400 years, you ain't special.
And they'd do the same if it were the Golden Horde or the Ukrainians or the Poles.
Outsider Shmusider, France allied with the Ottomans for 250 years, Russia "outsider-ness" has nothing to do with it, (id in fact argue it's their own invention) and it's all about their own behaviour on the geopolitical stage.
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A politician from a country not directly involved in the conflict saying “let’s just fight” instead of cutting a deal, while at the same time knowing that he’ll never even sniff the field of battle is the most soulless shit I’ve ever heard
Edit: Love the flair thanks mods 🫶🏾
I mean... yeah, obviously
We should store these types of admissions in something like a "postmortem confession" database. It could be extensive and easily citable for the next time the US stokes the American war spirit and everyone experiences amnesia again.
How many more times does this need to be made public before people accept it? Not coming to terms and admitting this is the same stubborn mentality as continuing to claim Saddam was supplying WMD to terrorists to use on New York.
No shit. Obvious since before thing started when US rejected Russias appeal for a mutual security understanding in Dec of 2019
Instead they chose to pour gasoline on the fire.
Yeah, but 10% for the big guy was more important.
Hindsight's 20/20 but damn if this doesn't feel like another "we totally could've avoided this massive clusterfuck" moment that'll get memory-holed in like 6 months
It won’t. The libs are proud of this. Russia can never have a “sphere of influence!” Those days are over! Those hundreds of military bases the U.S. has? Oh, that’s just countries voluntarily allowing us to be there since we’re so benevolent. That’s totally different!
I dont know how there isnt a nato hitsquad hunting down vovan and lexus at this stage
You'd think, after almost four years, western elites could have learned to not spill the beans during unvetted phone calls by now. But no, the trick still works just like before.
It's easier to understand when they continue to suffer zero consequences for spelling said beans
At this point, future historians should erect a statue of them.
Don't give them any ideas
I mean, yeah. that was obvious. even at the time, the conversation was about how the president is gonna prevent it by acting proactively.
I disagree with a lot of the russia glazing I see here but I think a lot of the problems the west has historically had with Russia are due to europeans, and by extension the US, reflexively treating Russia as an outsider and a potential enemy. you can see that in the examples mentioned, where every opportunity for dialogue is met with aggressive posturing, and any russian reaction that results is just used to strengthen their confirmation bias... see also the fall of the Soviet Union and the resulting mess. Russia has historically been treated as a barbarian "other" by europeans and a lot of the disaster of the 20th century was directly shaped by the other European powers (and then the US) trying to limit and "contain" russia.
Russia can absolutely be a superpower and a normal country, but most important thing about Russia (in that regard) is degree of centralization. Russia is INCREDIBLY centralized, extremely even. Moscow or St. Petersburg and the rest of Russia are two different countries. That makes it so so so easy to go authoritarian/totalitarian.
Russia absolutely can be a normal country, but I'd disagree on your take that other countries push it to being shit. It's mostly internal.
no, I didn't say other countries pushed it to shit. that's on Russia. but Europe has historically antagonized and "othered" Russia both because of its percieved backwardness and also its size & potential. it's a specific type of fear and contempt mixed together and you can see it in european attitudes dating back centuries.
shrugs I mean that's every country. In and out group. English and France and Germany and Poland and everyone has some negative stereotypes
And I mean USSR containment worked for bourgeoisie in power in Western countries. (To your first point)
This is a profoundly non-dialectical way of looking at it. You can't understand the formation of the modern Russian state without understanding how the existence of any modern Russian state is an inherent existential threat to wall st, the city of London, and the EU. Any large (and any smaller), sovereign state is an inherent existential threat to wall st etc. The only Russian government acceptable to the West was the one led by Yeltsin. All other ones have to be destroyed so they can be replaced with satraps.
Without any context, this reply looks like random things associated with "bad" vs "good". I don't see much bad associated with EU or City of London or anything of this sort. I didn't watch or read things that made you come to conclusions you came to so I can't even meaningfully engage yet with your arguments.
Those guys destroyed Ukraine in the hopes it would also destroy Russia (and then China). They are the bad guys. Putin, Xi, Maduro are the underdogs, despite whatever bad shit they pull. Drop in the bucket compared to Epstein's friends.
Really?
Xi - leader of emerging superpower
Putin - who started the war of aggression, responsible for death of hundreds of thousands of people and destruction of tens of huge cities, forced flight of millions
Maduro - I don't know much about him
THESE guys are UNDERDOGS in your eyes?
Also I don't remember Wall St. shelling Mariupol. And I don't recall EU killing civilians in Bucha. And I know there weren't City of London's soldiers who launch drones at civilian infrastructure to make it impossible to heat homes in winter.
Are you sure that THIS is what you're rooting for?
I think Russians are just taking way too personally what is rather impersonal Great power Politics.
To take a 1800s example:
Oh Great Britain is trying to contain Russian influence in Central Asia and the Mediterranean?
Yea no shit they are, they have their own influence in central asia and the Mediterranean! It's just what happens when two imperial powers have competing spheres of influence!
They did the same to the french for 400 years, you ain't special.
And they'd do the same if it were the Golden Horde or the Ukrainians or the Poles.
Outsider Shmusider, France allied with the Ottomans for 250 years, Russia "outsider-ness" has nothing to do with it, (id in fact argue it's their own invention) and it's all about their own behaviour on the geopolitical stage.
This sub can be weirdly pro russia at times, just like those moron rightoids who go there thinking it isn't woke or w/e.
Did any of you dweebs even read this glorified blog? Shite "journalism'
Sad!
Why won't they think of the dominos? If Ukraine falls then so goes Europe, America, and then the entire world!
Send another billion! Prepare the draft! Putler must be stopped there or we'll be fighting him in the streets of Manhattan!
Somehow… NATO made Russia blitzkrieg Kyiv.
Yeah, "America bad" syndrome