So for those of you unfamiliar with Voyager, some mild spoilers
Tom Paris is always portrayed as this guru of 1990s Earth culture. Obviously this is an unavoidable result of trying to make Voyager appeal to "contemporary" times.
It got me thinking, Tom Paris is basically the 24th century equivalent of the people you know now who are really into stuff like Shakespeare, the Renaissance Faire, or Medieval Times (or something like Puy du Fou for our French Trekkies)
Do y'all think the Federation has "Ye Olde 1990s Faires?" Are these faires how someone like Tom Paris honed his knowledge of the late 20th century? Just some food for thought.
Anyways Merry Christmas to those of you who celebrate it. And to all, Peace and Long Life.
He's obsessed with 20th century earth in general. His fetish for classic cars and movies goes way earlier than the 90s. Captain proton is based on flash gordon and similar - that comic came out in the 30s and the TV series in the 50s.
Of course Janeway's holographic boyfriend was from the 19th century because it was cheap to use that lot at universal studios. See also why the hirogen liked a ww2 setting
Yup. Same reason why Khan is now Canadian: budget.
/s we don’t actually know if he’s Canadian but he was in Toronto suspiciously close to pinewood Toronto studios in 2024.
I agree. Whilst Tom knows about the 90s in ‘Future’s End, Pt 1 & 2’, his interest extends way beyond the 1990s to cover the entire 20th Century.
And since it is so far away for him, he also mistakes some time frames and mixes them, like talking about Cold War problems and topics in the 1990s. Similar how many average today mix different timeframes in the middle ages, forgetting how much time actually is in-between.
In his defense, if you only have surviving media 300 years after the fact to piece together the pop culture and slang of a time period, you're going to get a lot of things wrong.
I think we all know by the time most media gets around to being "current", they're already well behind the trend and they generally get it wrong.
We see people doing it right now. I've seen people trying to dress in 90s fashion and getting it completely wrong because they weren't there for it and only have TV and music videos to go off of and it's only been 25 years.
Not to mention that many records from the 20th century must have been lost during World War III, before First Contact.
Good point. It makes me wonder exactly what Tom was pulling from.
It also makes me wonder what pop culture survived after World War III. It's a shame that Voyager's nature as a TV show meant Paramount was never going to use anything they had to license and pay for, so it's all incredibly vague.
Oh yeah, it's entirely understandable. His worst mistake was claiming to be after someone from the KGB, in the mid to late 90s. That's less than a decade after it dissolved, and it was a line I think he had to improvise, not part of a carefully prepared cover story. He was so close to a plausible story.
I’d love to see them get it hilariously wrong once due to how long it’s been. You’d have a character start his homemade 20th Century simulation only to have him enter a Prohibition-era speakeasy where the patrons are watching the moon landing while listening to Belgian techno anthem "Pump Up The Jam".
Didn't Lower Decks make some joke like that?
I hate it when I sense such mashups in movies or stories about past times.
Let’s disco dance, Hammurabi!
To be fair though, it is a Good Place....
One might say it's a place to come home to after long travels, a fair haven.
Following a global nuclear war it's likely a lot of our history is pretty poorly documented... And I get the impression that Tom isn't the most studious of students (sure he made it through Starfleet, but likely on skill and luck more than reading). So it's likely his view of our history is pretty poor.... Like a typical redditors view of history (myself included).
fr idk why but i totally vibe with toms love for old school stuff, feels relatable af
Fair Haven was a lot??? Witchcraft I tell ya!
So Tom Paris is potentially a LARPer? Well, I suppose he already is when it comes to Captain Proton! And yeah, I can totally picture after Voyager came home that he’d be escaping to “20th century fan” events to the indulgent eye-rolling of B'Elanna!
I'm betting given holodeck technology, most people on earth are larpers.
And sex pests. Imagine how often the filters need to be cleaned on public holodecks.
<Protein containment full>
And as we know waste is then fed back into the replicators for food . . . Yeah .
Enjoy your replicated protein shake
In fairness Admiral Daddy was pretty okay knowing what he was eating.
one day I'll remember his screen name and not just Oded Fehr and the meme nameIt is funny how the episode on Barclay in TNG, I know it wasn't specifically focused on this (more so the obsession with the holodeck itself distracting him from his duties), but there seemed to be an implication that Barclay was particularly weird for living out his fantasies on the holodeck.
Meanwhile the whole time I'm watching this, I'm thinking...let's be honest, EVERYONE would use the holodeck in this way lmao. The real weirdos are the ones like Picard masquerading as some weirdass 1920s private investigator
But that's how most people use them. Holodecks seem to be the form of entertainment; movies, books and video games all rolled into one where you are the main character of the story, as well as seemingly shape it how you want to.
We only have to look at the fact that very first use of generative AI was porn, Deepfakes of celebrities to know how holodecks would be use.
It certainly implied that Jadzia and Kira had plenty of fun in the holodecks a couple of times. An Cheif O'brian an Julian were certainly larpers an living out their fantasies on the Holodeck.
I think he's literally a LARPer. All those holodeck scenes are just scifi LARPing.
"Hey dude, I've got to get into my petrochemical-powered ground vehicle and travel to my place of employment to earn monetary units."
"Good ides, I'll beam there too!'
"God sakes, Ted, you're always breaking character!"
Honestly who needs fairs when you have holodecks. Richest people in the federation (if they had money) are the 1990 program writers.
I'm sure some people still hold group things. It's more fun with other people, after all.
We saw just about everyone on the Voyager LARP as 1800s Irish villagers in New Haven. They definitely do group gatherings whether that's on a holodeck or someone's back yard.
Like the HMS Enterprise at the start of Generations! That's a whole crew dressed up and it isn't their first time in that setting
Tom has more of a love of middle 20th-century Western pop culture and media culture.
Sci-fi movie serials, 3D glasses, black-and-white TV, classic (to us) cars, etc.
If he were into 90s culture, he'd be talking about Spielberg's "serious period" and grunge music.
Or he could listen to MC hammer and strut around in parachute pants
Well sure. He was too legit to quit.
Star Trek has often makes some of the cast needs to be obsessed with things 20th century middle-aged American dudes like, so the audience can bond with them.
Tom Paris: Cars
Benjamin Sisko: Baseball
Bashir/O'Brian: The Alamo
TNG Crew: Poker
I'm surprised by the Alamo, with their backgrounds O'Brien and Bashir you would expect to fight on the anti-slavery and catholic side of the battle, not the slave holding protestant one.
The Alamo was just one of many historical war holoprograms they used.
And the point was that it was a famous last stand.
I suspect that, if you had asked them, they would either have been unaware of the political background of the battle or dismissed it as "humans really were awful in the 1800's." I don't think the characters would really have cared about that - after all, they're just playing a game.
They also did Battle of Britain stuff even though Ireland was neutral in WW2.
I think it’s clear that Bashir and O’Brian don’t care about the facts of history much, just the legends, which helps their relationship, especially when singing ‘Jerusalem’ together - which was a big thing for British and Irish characters to have done together on TV in the 1990s.
They’re well over the troubles of the past.
I am finishing a TNG re-watch, and the poker scenes are so annoying. They CONSTANTLY use "string bets" as in "I see your 10, and raise you 20".
That provides an unfair advantage (reading your opponent's reaction to the I see your 10 part) and is not allowed.
And they never play no limit holdem like normal people do. So annoying.
This is something I've always thought - Tom is meant to be 'cool' by viewers' standards, but by in-universe standards this guy is an SCA history nerd for the 20th century.
I do think that is actually portrayed well in his relationship with B'elanna. A techie and the history dweeb is a classic special interest pairing.
The Honor Harrington novels had the main character as a member of the SCA, which is how she knew how to use 20thC firearms. It really doesn’t seem out of place for Tom to be pretty much the same.
True- for some reason, there was nothing cooler in the 90s than to be the “slacker” archetype.
Imagine going to dinner at the medieval times location on Risa, and part of the entertainment is Neo from The Matrix fighting a group of Greasers from the 1960s while a live ragtime band plays. That’s basically how our Renaissance fests look
I know people LOATHE the Kelvin movies on this subreddit
But it reminds me of the scene in Beyond where they're playing Beastie Boys to disrupt the villain's schemes and Bones says something like "Is that classical music?" and Spock responds with, "Yes Doctor it appears to be." Hahaha.
What I’ve seen is that people on r/startrek loathe STID. The reaction that I’ve seen to the other Kelvin universe films tends to be mixed.
WRT the “Sabotage” scene in Beyond, when I watched Beyond in a theater, everyone started laughing before “Sabotage” started playing because we all realized what was about to happen. That’s the only time where I’ve experienced something like that.
And that was a riff on ‘The Greats’ of literature from ST4.
There’s also the theme park in Bozeman. Tom probably had a season pass.
I was thrilled when LD went there so we could see some of it!
That entire show was filled with amazing places and people I was excited to see.
I absolutely love the idea of a 90's version of the Ren Faire.
How did you miss saying "Live Long and Prosper" in a Star Trek sub? haha
Merry Christmas!
Haha fair. Wanted to mix it up a bit
I mean to be fair, culture gets a little Fallout from the 90s onwards. Then when the luxury space gay communism happens, contemporary culture seems to become more personalised thing.
Except if you’re alien, then it’s homogeneity.
Imagine going to the Holodeck and recreating the vampire club sequence for Blade or the Triple X scene with Rammstein. . . Plus doing it at Quarks and getting some too high quality replicated 90's drugs .
Fuck Yeah . Take my latinum.
Tom Paris would like Buck Rodgers in the 25th century.
beedee beedee
When Voyager was airing, I realized that the obsession with 20th century Earth would be the 24th century equivalent of being obsessed with the Middle Ages or the Renaissance and that seemed odd to me when I was a kid.
90s faires would probably be in pretty bad taste given some of what was happening then in ST.
This is awesome! I just started a rewatch and I’m going to enjoy watching with this perspective. Thanks!
People centuries from now will likely look back on the 20th/21st/22nd etc. centuries a lot differently than we look back on the 16th or 17th.
There will be relatively complete surviving records of our culture and technology because everything gets documented on the Internet as soon as it happens. Combine that with the sheer abundance of new and different cultural and technological stuff compared to earlier centuries and looking back will be almost overwhelming. People won't know where to start. You'll have to divide it into decades just to prevent information overload.
I think it’s a bit different because we have active media/film that makes it much easier to get into it.
Sure, you can read Shakespeare but you know what’s easier? Eating and watching tv while you just absorb what’s in front of you. Personally I think it largely indicates that he was easily entertained and craved that simple entertainment which is also why I very much like his character because hey… me too
Ye Olde 90's Faires... ...as mass gathering events? Probably not. ...as holodeck programs? Hell yes!
1940s through 70s. my dad used to watch the old Falas Gorden movies that Tom’s Holodeck programs were based on. his cars were 50s and 60s. overall it was the 20th century but mostly mid century. not 1990s at all!
They probably have 90’s theme parks. Just like Futurama.
Tom is clearly autistic. His depth of knowledge could only be reached with the aid of autism or adhd.
His knowledge wasn’t always accurate. He thought the USSR still existed in 1996.
I mean, it’s not at all a stretch to suggest that Tom could be ADHD.
Seven is maybe more CPTSD than autistic as you can’t really separate the two with her as it started so early and the Doctor is… I mean, he gives the (Spock/Data) autism vibes on this show.
Seven’s CPTSD is buried deep and hits hard.
I agree!
Every single holodeck program and neelix party was a ye olde something
I always felt the fascination with the 20th century was shared by a lot of Starfleet.