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No Bigotry, including racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism...
No Reactionaries, including all kind of right-wingers.
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You need at least another generation. People who grow up in a time where all the anti-commie scaremongering pales in comparison to actual lived-in capitalist horror, and are far enough removed from the legacy of the last cold war.
After that, they're going to need a way to organize at a time when ICE will be empowered to execute all Americans who speak ill of capitalism on terrorism grounds.
I don't think more than 20% of the population under 40 in the United States actually likes capitalism. The reason it seems otherwise is the same reason the Tea Party and MAGA seem so powerful: Astroturfing.
As long as they can convince you that the society is brainwashed into worshiping their almighty quarterly returns, you'll be demoralized enough to not actually do anything.
So what can you do? Stop spreading the myth that Americans are brainwashed and start organizing offline with your actual community... and if you don't have one, well... it's time to change that.
It is not remotely a myth that Americans are brainwashed. You are correct that nearly no one of any age actually likes the status quo, but just try talking to Americans about alternatives to capitalism and you'll see how quickly they jump to "gommunism 100,000,000 dead, Venezuela, No iPhone." A substantial number of people who would otherwise be sympathetic to socialist ideas reject anything different to the status quo out of hand because they've been taught that anyone using those words is trying to trick you into recreating 1984. Most of the Americans protesting right now believe that if they just stay peaceful and vote hard enough that MAGA and ICE will go away and they'll have the Obama era back. Many of them believe that Trump is a Russo-Chinese agent bent on betraying the positive legacy they believe the US has rather than the perfect embodiment of everything America is and always has been. These people are nowhere near class consciousness, let alone a revolutionary consciousness. American liberalism needs to be completely dead and buried for most Americans to begin thinking about making real change, as change that forces them to interrogate their own complicity in capitalism and imperialism is entirely off the table at the moment.
There are probably some Americans now who would no longer say that capitalism is great. But they are also completely incapable of even imagining anything that isn't capitalist.
It's capitalist-realism friend, it is simply easier to imagine the end of the world than a different system functioning. I spent a lot of effort working on folks when I still lived in the US, but people there are exceptionally eager to believe they understand the totality of lived experience under socialism because of a book they read in school or something a TV personality said. I've known several people who wanted to learn more about fascism and so read "Mein Kampf," one friend even read it in his native German, and these people report a greater understanding of the (censored by automod) poor mental state of Hitler. I've never met a single person who wasn't already an avowed leftist who granted the same grace to the left by reading the Manifesto or the Bread book.
I don't think more than 20% of the population under 40 in the United States actually likes capitalism.
The issue here is that much of that population that may claim to dislike capitalism has no idea what it is. How many of those think "we just need to be more like Europe" or "we just need to be like Sweden" because to them, capitalism's problems are an issue of its perceived excesses and not something inherent to the system itself?
Obviously those people are all able to be convinced, so it's a start, but it's something to consider. We already get a lot of people on this very sub who have no desire for actual socialism or even idea what it is.
The two major mistakes you’re making in your question is assuming that historically class consciousness and material conditions inversely correspond in a rigid and organic way and you’re conflating class consciousness and socialist consciousness.
While material conditions are necessary producers of particular forms of consciousness, it is the education and guidance of the party that is required for consolidation of that consciousness and the transformation of that into socialist consciousness which goes beyond the base level of recognition of the working class as a class for itself towards the recognition of the political program of socialism as the political means to achieve working class political supremacy over the bourgeoisie. People will organically recognize their interests are not being met, but that can just as easily take the form of jingoism and bigotry in the absence of a revolutionary organization to guide the development of that consciousness.
The takeaway here is that 1) conditions will deteriorate, 2) struggle for better conditions will spontaneously happen in various ways, with various political motivations, and with varying levels of effectiveness 3) it is up to an organized party of socialists to agitate among the masses to point out this things and develop dissent against capitalism, educate the masses in Marxism and socialism, and organize the unorganized into the struggle.
The pessimism in the US about socialism does not point to hopelessness or that the US is uniquely pro capitalist or whatever exceptionalism. What it means is that the working class and socialist infrastructure is in disrepair after decades of repression and pro capital propaganda, and that all needs to be rebuilt.
Join an org if you haven’t already (PSL is what I recommend, but FRSO and DSA are worthwhile as well depending on their local presence and the character of your local DSA branch) and see for yourself what work is being done. That by itself will help keep the pessimism at bay.
Consciousness is not raised by decaying conditions alone. Poor conditions are a necessary component because well-fed, comfortable people aren't going to revolt. But you also need the most advanced and active members of the working class to organize and agitate. When society is observably going down the toilet and the vanguard is visibly out there organizing protests, marches and strikes, writing newspapers critical of the bourgeois leadership and the corporations, and actively preparing for insurrection, this results in a psychological change that rouses people to action. In order for this to happen, the vanguard needs to be deeply connected to the working masses via trade unions but also other organizations and spaces where they can effectively organize and propagandize. Without leadership, your average prole who is asleep ideologically will most likely sit in despair, unable or unsure of what to do. People have to experience the worsening conditions resulting from the decay of capitalism, but also see and believe that change is possible when we band together in solidarity.
Not just in America, and whilst not as bad, it is also prevalent here in the UK. After Thatcher was just Reagan in Drag.
Unfortunately, with rise of the far-right and there grip on media narratives, an anti-socialist or anti-communst sentiment could become more popular. Issues with housing, jobs and healthcare are a direction result of neo-liberal capitalism. However, the right can narrativise it as too many immigrants, being an easy answer can doesn't acctually address the fundamental issue.
More to your point, i fear that material conditions could continue to get worse for people, without gaining a class consciousness or a truly Anti-capitalisist prospective. If the right, aren't demonising immigrants or blaming "wokness" they will turn and blame the poor and those on welfare to further keep the people divided.
Whilst I don't really know how reach those who have been taken in by right-wing populist rhetoric, let alone an American MAGA supporter, however we may have more success by trying to bring those who are liberal/left leaning to a more radical left position.
I do sometimes wonder if the USA would need some sort of transitional stage to get people to accept socialism.
However, I also believe that pointing out and focusing on the inherent logical contradictions in liberalism and capitalism as well as the enlightened self-interest of the working class would go a long way to boost the left here.
This is a space for socialists to discuss current events in our world from anti-capitalist perspective(s), and a certain knowledge of socialism is expected from participants. This is not a space for non-socialists. Please be mindful of our rules before participating, which include:
No Bigotry, including racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism...
No Reactionaries, including all kind of right-wingers.
No Liberalism, including social democracy, lesser evilism...
No Sectarianism. There is plenty of room for discussion, but not for baseless attacks.
Please help us keep the subreddit helpful by reporting content that break r/Socialism's rules.
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You need at least another generation. People who grow up in a time where all the anti-commie scaremongering pales in comparison to actual lived-in capitalist horror, and are far enough removed from the legacy of the last cold war.
After that, they're going to need a way to organize at a time when ICE will be empowered to execute all Americans who speak ill of capitalism on terrorism grounds.
I don't think more than 20% of the population under 40 in the United States actually likes capitalism. The reason it seems otherwise is the same reason the Tea Party and MAGA seem so powerful: Astroturfing.
As long as they can convince you that the society is brainwashed into worshiping their almighty quarterly returns, you'll be demoralized enough to not actually do anything.
So what can you do? Stop spreading the myth that Americans are brainwashed and start organizing offline with your actual community... and if you don't have one, well... it's time to change that.
It is not remotely a myth that Americans are brainwashed. You are correct that nearly no one of any age actually likes the status quo, but just try talking to Americans about alternatives to capitalism and you'll see how quickly they jump to "gommunism 100,000,000 dead, Venezuela, No iPhone." A substantial number of people who would otherwise be sympathetic to socialist ideas reject anything different to the status quo out of hand because they've been taught that anyone using those words is trying to trick you into recreating 1984. Most of the Americans protesting right now believe that if they just stay peaceful and vote hard enough that MAGA and ICE will go away and they'll have the Obama era back. Many of them believe that Trump is a Russo-Chinese agent bent on betraying the positive legacy they believe the US has rather than the perfect embodiment of everything America is and always has been. These people are nowhere near class consciousness, let alone a revolutionary consciousness. American liberalism needs to be completely dead and buried for most Americans to begin thinking about making real change, as change that forces them to interrogate their own complicity in capitalism and imperialism is entirely off the table at the moment.
That's exactly what I mean.
There are probably some Americans now who would no longer say that capitalism is great. But they are also completely incapable of even imagining anything that isn't capitalist.
It's capitalist-realism friend, it is simply easier to imagine the end of the world than a different system functioning. I spent a lot of effort working on folks when I still lived in the US, but people there are exceptionally eager to believe they understand the totality of lived experience under socialism because of a book they read in school or something a TV personality said. I've known several people who wanted to learn more about fascism and so read "Mein Kampf," one friend even read it in his native German, and these people report a greater understanding of the (censored by automod) poor mental state of Hitler. I've never met a single person who wasn't already an avowed leftist who granted the same grace to the left by reading the Manifesto or the Bread book.
The issue here is that much of that population that may claim to dislike capitalism has no idea what it is. How many of those think "we just need to be more like Europe" or "we just need to be like Sweden" because to them, capitalism's problems are an issue of its perceived excesses and not something inherent to the system itself?
Obviously those people are all able to be convinced, so it's a start, but it's something to consider. We already get a lot of people on this very sub who have no desire for actual socialism or even idea what it is.
The two major mistakes you’re making in your question is assuming that historically class consciousness and material conditions inversely correspond in a rigid and organic way and you’re conflating class consciousness and socialist consciousness.
While material conditions are necessary producers of particular forms of consciousness, it is the education and guidance of the party that is required for consolidation of that consciousness and the transformation of that into socialist consciousness which goes beyond the base level of recognition of the working class as a class for itself towards the recognition of the political program of socialism as the political means to achieve working class political supremacy over the bourgeoisie. People will organically recognize their interests are not being met, but that can just as easily take the form of jingoism and bigotry in the absence of a revolutionary organization to guide the development of that consciousness.
The takeaway here is that 1) conditions will deteriorate, 2) struggle for better conditions will spontaneously happen in various ways, with various political motivations, and with varying levels of effectiveness 3) it is up to an organized party of socialists to agitate among the masses to point out this things and develop dissent against capitalism, educate the masses in Marxism and socialism, and organize the unorganized into the struggle.
The pessimism in the US about socialism does not point to hopelessness or that the US is uniquely pro capitalist or whatever exceptionalism. What it means is that the working class and socialist infrastructure is in disrepair after decades of repression and pro capital propaganda, and that all needs to be rebuilt.
Join an org if you haven’t already (PSL is what I recommend, but FRSO and DSA are worthwhile as well depending on their local presence and the character of your local DSA branch) and see for yourself what work is being done. That by itself will help keep the pessimism at bay.
Consciousness is not raised by decaying conditions alone. Poor conditions are a necessary component because well-fed, comfortable people aren't going to revolt. But you also need the most advanced and active members of the working class to organize and agitate. When society is observably going down the toilet and the vanguard is visibly out there organizing protests, marches and strikes, writing newspapers critical of the bourgeois leadership and the corporations, and actively preparing for insurrection, this results in a psychological change that rouses people to action. In order for this to happen, the vanguard needs to be deeply connected to the working masses via trade unions but also other organizations and spaces where they can effectively organize and propagandize. Without leadership, your average prole who is asleep ideologically will most likely sit in despair, unable or unsure of what to do. People have to experience the worsening conditions resulting from the decay of capitalism, but also see and believe that change is possible when we band together in solidarity.
Not just in America, and whilst not as bad, it is also prevalent here in the UK. After Thatcher was just Reagan in Drag.
Unfortunately, with rise of the far-right and there grip on media narratives, an anti-socialist or anti-communst sentiment could become more popular. Issues with housing, jobs and healthcare are a direction result of neo-liberal capitalism. However, the right can narrativise it as too many immigrants, being an easy answer can doesn't acctually address the fundamental issue.
More to your point, i fear that material conditions could continue to get worse for people, without gaining a class consciousness or a truly Anti-capitalisist prospective. If the right, aren't demonising immigrants or blaming "wokness" they will turn and blame the poor and those on welfare to further keep the people divided.
Whilst I don't really know how reach those who have been taken in by right-wing populist rhetoric, let alone an American MAGA supporter, however we may have more success by trying to bring those who are liberal/left leaning to a more radical left position.
emaciated bodies in the streets are necessary
I do sometimes wonder if the USA would need some sort of transitional stage to get people to accept socialism.
However, I also believe that pointing out and focusing on the inherent logical contradictions in liberalism and capitalism as well as the enlightened self-interest of the working class would go a long way to boost the left here.