Maybe? The Amulet of Mara simply signifies you are available for marriage/dating. Meaning it’s completely up to them. Then again some people get off on this stuff so. 🤷
all ya do is wear an amulet of mara dammmm lol. lydia is the one who asks to marry. and why isnt it a bigger deal when i fus ro dah lydia from the peak of high AF hrothgar?
It's always funny for me to read about Lydia's iconic complaints in the english dub since she does the opposite in the German dub.
In the German dub, she says it with a respectful, almost honorable tone. Especially if you ask her what a Huscarl does; she just sounds loyal in the German dub.
It was definitely quite a shock when I kept reading jokes about Lydia being annoying.
I always choked it up to people being annoyed she blocks doors or something.
The German dub is surprisingly good, or maybe I got stockholmed after 10 years of playing it in German. She definitely has one of the nicer voices in German.
People blow it out of proportion. The majority of what she says is all honorbound and “how high should I jump, thane?” but then she also gets that one line of mocking complaint when you unload nine tons of dragon scales , cheese and forks into her pockets
I think it adds a lot to her character, even in a game where most npcs only have a handful of lines
I’m almost as annoyed with the other followers’ lines when you interact with them, so when I get a snarky one, it grates on my nerves just a bit more. I wish they could be turned off.
Also: “I just crafted and enchanted this badass set of armor, the likes of which have never been seen. I did so specifically for you, and you think it’s going to be a burden? While I’m venting, I caught you sitting in the bedroom just biting into a loaf of bread like that’s a thing that normal people do. I know I’ve got a stockpile of Eidar, at least make yourself a grilled cheese sandwich. Weirdo.”
I dunno man I i dont think I can stand for this bread slander. I mean its rustic bread, not just some sliced white or wheat. eating good bread by itself is great, I actually think im gonna go eat half a baguette now😅
Honestly shes the weird one. i own a massive mansion in solitude but she insists on sitting in my bedroom in whiterun watching me sleep while eating bread.
My Dragonborn is generally not a good person with the various murders he commits and daedric princes he makes deals with. Not sure rizzing up the housecarl even makes top ten worst things he’s done.
Not to psychoanalyze but I think that's par for the course of being desensitized to something and being sensitized to another
We tend to ignore the evil deeds we commit, like theft or murder because it's part of gameplay and we've taken it for granted/are desensitized to it.
The logistics of grooming/abuse of power, even in a fictional setting, is something we aren't exactly desensitized too as it's not common in most games and therefore feel uncomfortable with it; not that putting on an amulet of Mara even implies that in the slightest.
It also depends on situation and characters. The game not only tells you you can kill and steal, it progresses and rewards you when you do it. Meanwhile, the game doesn't give you the power to abuse and doesn't reward you for it, so the line here is not only established by society but by the game itself.
Meanwhile, as you can see in this subreddit, we aren't as desensitized towards killing when the character that will die is liked or a friend (Paarthurnax dilemma). The game forces you to kill Paarthurnax to progress. It even rewards you with an entire faction. But most players will not even get to play it because they refuse to kill a character they love.
If the game gave the same rewards and progress to players who abused a character they don't like. Would they do it? Would they feel bad? Most big companies won't risk adding this to their game as per it would be frowned upon. Therefore we can't really know how this would affect players.
How many players that enjoy killing Nazeem would enjoy if the game gave them the chance to torture him indefinitely?
In principle, I guess. But then again, where is the abuse in power of wearing an Amulet of Mara and asking if Lydia is interested? She's a Strong Nord woman who I can very much stand the sight of, she was free to say no, and she is absolutely the tank between the two of us. If she had wanted to say no, I couldn't have stopped her.
Amorous Adventures makes the db dialogue sound so douche, so much i would bet its on purpose. “Oh you wanted the fuck everyone mod right? Even with the ones with trauma? Well go ahead, but know this is what youre character sounds like. Inspired by you.”
Yeah, if anything, I meet Lydia while I’m basically just some little twerp who got lucky enough not to die a few times. No money, no land, no power. Sure, she was told she had to follow me around. But I see her as more of a babysitter than my subordinate.
A lot of slavers used the “I didn’t technically force them, they just said yes,” excuse as well as CEOs who boinked secretaries or female subordinates. Plenty of rape happens because the girl “didn’t technically say no.”
That said I'm not sure this applies to Lydia or the other housecarls.
Skyrim courtship typically consists of:
Step 1: Begin wearing an Amulet of Mara to signify that you are single and looking for a relationship. Choosing to wear such an Amulet is not an advance in its own right, it means you are open to advances from others (and even then you can still say no.)
Step 2: A character who wants to marry you will begin flirting with you, sometimes directly referencing your Amulet of Mara, indicating they know its significance to Nordic Culture.
Step 3: You ask them if they are interested. They confirm that they are in fact interested. Then they ask you if you are interested. You confirm that you are.
Step 4: You agree to marry.
This entire process requires Lydia and all the other marriageable housecarls to make the first move, and for them to then double down when you ask them if they are serious. If the Dragonborn was making unsolicited advances on Lydia then yes it would be gross. But when Lydia has to make the first move it's much more acceptable.
All-in-all this is probably the best possible way they could have handled it considering the vast majority of marriage options (many of whom are either mercenaries, housecarls, or faction members) have some sort of power imbalance with the Dragonborn.
All you have to do is walk up with the amulet and she takes the initiative to flirt with you, though. That's why the response is "Interested in me, are you?"
I hate when people get like this. And the way people demonize people who want to romance Serana is crazy & I don't even like Serana. It's a video game guys. Fantasy vs reality. Like we can fucking behead people and join a guild of assassins where we're hired to kill a cognitively impaired homeless man. And that's all fine and good. Marrying an NPC? What is wrong with you, you creepy predator?
I hate Reddit lol
Look at that freak, wanting to use the built-in option to romance a consenting adult NPC in a video game. Now let's all talk about how much we hate & want to murder mildly annoying child NPCS.
Pretty sure last dovahkin I did married the poor smelter guy in Markarth as I was playing a breton witch and sided with Madanach.
As much as it'd be exciting to have a fetish for smelly, dirty coal shoveller balls I'm pretty sure I was just trying to think of who my character might marry.
Look I'm absolutely playing devil's advocate here but sure early on? Lydia definitely is stronger than you later as the dragonborn becomes more powerful? Ain't nobody stopping you from taking what you want. I'm just glad the setting seems to allows them to be morally dubious but at least still have lines they dont cross.
To actually answer your question, it does not. At least not exactly. Housecarl, from the (I think) Scandinavian word housekarl means something like non servile servant. In layman's terms that means she's specifically not a slave and is probably paid through dragonsreach as basically a fancy guard. That accounts for the expensive steel armor she starts with.
Anyway, there's no social pressure for her to propose, and she doesn't even do so unless you own a house in Whiterun. This is a consistent requirement among housecarls even though Lydia is the only one who a - spawns before you purchase breezehome and b - is recruited from a city where a house can be purchased in the original version of skyrim. They aren't interested in the dragonborn unless they, the dragonborn, are rich.
For Lydia, marrying the thane is a very convenient political move. The hero of Whiterun, and later the slayer of Alduin? She'd be looking at a legendary career, with court benefits that would set her up for life.
Amorous Adventures adds some quest lines that result in romancing followers or popular quest givers like Ysolda. There's versions for standalone that just fade to black for scenes, then there's versions that interface with whatever adult framework you're running if you are.
They're pretty tasteful, fully voiced, and a lot of them will have you go to places you'd otherwise miss. Like...Carlotta in Whiterun will tell you her daughter's father is a deadbeat and you'll find his journals around different dungeons, finding some stuff out about him.
Nothing wrong with sex mods either. Sex isn't even a bad thing in the meatspace.
You can sacrifice people to Boethiah or beat them into dedicating their soul to Baal in this game.
I have never done the Boethiah quest. It creeps me out. The funny thing is people want to do things like join the Foresworn, but never read the fine print. Then complain about "bad" mods.
It would have been great if there actually was a fully fleshed-out Forsworn campaign where we liberate the Reach from both, the Empire and the Stormcloaks. Markarth is taken by the Forsworn and its inhabitants either flee, die or become slaves.
It would fit wonderfully into the theme. No better time to take back our ancestors homeland than a civil war binding most of the occupier's forces.
It would make for serious dark fantasy that is for sure. I feel like the Forsworn should have services (smiths, shops, etc) and the like too. So you could live there. Maybe a mod to unite the tribes would be cool.
I think, there are some mods. But none make the Forsworn a real faction with quests and stuff. Impactful quest mods are pretty rare in any game. Probably because you have to touch so many vanilla quests to integrate them well.
What's odd to me is that people who condemn Christianity are often the ones now spouting puritanical Christian values like nudity and sex being amoral. That line of thinking began in the 1700s through the church. Before that, clothing was just seen as practical, particularly in cold climate. But sure, go off with all your "bonk" and "horny jail" memes, I guess. Just know that you're all spouting ideologies from 250-year-old interpretations of Genesis, emboldened in recent years by pushback against 21st century access to pornograpgy.
We can go further with that analysis, we the player don't have the power to promote or offer her incentives, only the jarl can. The only thing we can give her is a good adventure. And some loot to hoard. Anything else is her of her own agency.
Yeah this!!! I mean even by wealth alone you can make discourse about "poWeR imbAlaNce" people often goes too far with morally charged discussions that they often looping back into ironically supporting harmful outdated ideas, we can say that it is unethical for rich people to marry anyone below their tax brackets because of the power imbalance or because black people are more at disadvantage than white people then black people should only marry their own or other poc
And even without the discourses rabbit hole as you said people fall in love regardless of power dynamic and not everything is abuse
I keep seeing comment that says a 21 years old woman is "basically a teenager" looping back into the Victorian era sensibility when woman were seen as weak as a child and thus they shouldn't demand any rights I see
Oh no, I've improperly engaged in a relationship with my subordinate after they saw me indicating romantic availability and expressed interest! How can I ever forgive myself?! Burglary, graverobbing, pockpocketing, theft, destruction of property, assault, treason, and first-, second- and third- dregree murder are all fine under my moral code, but this was a step too far, even for me. (Edited for spelling & tone)
No? The amulet only shows interest you and whichever housecarl you present it to have the right to refuse fullstop.please people stop trying to apply modern sensibilities to fantasy.
In regard to the setting, The morality of this is up to who your character is. I doubt that anyone would say anything to you about the ethics of it in the setting. And I mean from a more role player aspect of course.
There would likely be people that would make fun of you. There would probably be people that think it’s sweet or honorable that the depths of their oath to you, and your loyalty to them are so vast that you have solidified through marriage.
Hell in certain provinces Housecarl is more like a held office. Protecting the Jarl or Thanes of that realm regardless of who currently holds the title.
So in some ways it’s like dating your bodyguard/assistant. In others they have sworn an oath to you as a companion on a deeper level.
Ah this is something you see a lot in games from games set in different time periods, you are applying modern day standards and morals into a world where they aren’t the same, but also how many hallmark films are there where the lead female works for a rich boss and they end up falling in love together, it’s no different with this
You jest, BUT, this is why I've never ever married Lydia. In over 1K hours on this game, I've never, not once, married the person that is "sworn to carry my burdens".
It's a game, I know it's stupid, but I always had a gut-wrenching level of ick from the idea of proposing to this person that has no choice but to do what I tell them. It's a complete turn off.
Lydia comes on to ME. Lydia is in complete control of that relationship, regardless of my status as Thane and hers as housecarl. My big Nord himbo is too dumb and too focused on fighting and war to even realize his own feelings for her until she gets very aggressive.
15 YEARS TODD, 15 YEARS SINCE YOU LEFT US WITH NOTHING BUT SCRAPS! NOW LOOK AT US, N'WAHS ARE ARGUING ABOUT THE MORALITY OF YOUR HALF BAKED MARRIAGE MECHANICS.
Considering we are the dragonborn, thane of all cities, leader of all guilds, champions of all daedric princes, owners of several houses (and many more things i'm now forgetting), there's not a single marriage candidate that doesn't fall under the "abuse of power" umbrella. Because we technically hold power over the lives of every person in Skyrim.
Um, I am currently a dark elf who is siding with the “Skyrim is for the Nords” faction. Clearly l, I don’t give a fuck about your moral high ground. I seduce whom I want!
OP, the rule of courtship is, you have the right to ask someone out, and they have the right to accept or decline. If you assume that asking someone out is by its nature predatory, well, that's just not the case with most people.
If they say "no," they have made their choice, and that is that, and you need to respect it. If they say "no" over and over to the point where they are afraid of you and ask you to stop, and you just keep forcing yourself on them, yeah, that's SERIOUSLY wrong.
It's not predatory if the person accepts. In fact, there are people who WANT to be asked out by you. They usually hint at this, kinda like Lydia does when she tells you that her purpose in life is to be your sword and your shield, that she will protect you and all you own with her life, and similar such sentiments.
A functional marriage almost invariably results from mutual respect and admiration that progresses into love. A housecarl literally exists in respect and admiration of you to begin with, so I am of the opinion that the housecarl is 3/4s of the way there before you put the Amulet of Mara on. Becoming the Dragonborn's spouse means they'll be your equal, not subordinate.
I personally go the extra mile and arm and armor Lidya up before thinking of myself as the Dragonborn, and I give her a lot of high-quality healing potions, in the unlikely case she will need them if I do not Grand Healing her in time.
I would say there are probably some relationships that should be frowned upon, such as between a student and a professor. Both parties may want to do it, but it’s just unwise because of the potential for almost irresistible conflict of interest.
I just read all the comments about icky men getting all these sexual mods and I gotta agree, it's horrible... What's the name of this mod so I can avoid it?
Well the housecarl is the one asking the dragonborn, its just a matter of saying yes or no.
It does tickle me to meet someone for the first time after they've been skulking around my nice decorated home, and they immediately propose to me knowing nothing about me except that I have a nice house and a minor noble title. Like... it definitely gives gold digger vibes but I cant blame them for it.
I imagine landing a Dragonborn lover would be like winning the lottery in Skyrim. Probably even better. So I really think morals and many other heinous acts would be overlooked in favor of just being a spouse to one of the most powerful non-deity’s of all time
This play through i instantly started the mara quest, then i did the quests to get him as a house carl, after that i started and completed the main story with him before accepting to marry him lmaoo We "bonded" over that time and he watched me save the world. so i avoided any "power dynamics" lol
So you are worrying about predatory behaviors? Good, I'll continue my job as listener then, my job doesn't have any predatory behaviors, or power abusing, it's straight death.
nope. seducing =/= harassment. also in skyrim context its always the npc that asks to be married to you not the way around. even with mods "fixing" this the way it works on the game makes total sense once you take into account where you are at and that youre in a medieval era. the dragonborn is straight up the best marriage prospect ingame as some would argue he is god reincarnation(part of)
Well you're basically wearing the amulet that says you're available, and the Housecarl question you about it, prompting you to question if they're interested which they confirm, sounds like a mutual agreement.
I really wish we got backstories on the housecarls, like they just APPEAR and Lydia's dialogue always sounds as though she does NOT want to be there, like girl what does Balgruuf have on you? 😭
Maybe? The Amulet of Mara simply signifies you are available for marriage/dating. Meaning it’s completely up to them. Then again some people get off on this stuff so. 🤷
normal people : I've been getting into bagels lately
I think fucking bagels is actually more weird but maybe I have a warped perspective.
It's called phimosis and you should ask your doctor about it.
Unsurprisingly, a boomer at work asked me if I knew anything about Skyrim body mods 😅
all ya do is wear an amulet of mara dammmm lol. lydia is the one who asks to marry. and why isnt it a bigger deal when i fus ro dah lydia from the peak of high AF hrothgar?
skyrim hr department is wild like that. shouting an employee off a cliff? verbal warning. wearing a necklace? IMMEDIATE MEETING WITH TOBY.
The Greybeards kinda become Skyrim’s HR department if you haven’t finished the Civil War questline by a certain point.
Imma let you finish, but Alduin is the greatest threat of all time! All! Time! - Arngeir
Me shouting an employee off a cliff was the verbal warning.
Fuck Lydia that's why
Take that both ways if you want
The amount of moaning (not the sex type) about having to carry my burdens....
Shut it, you didn't kill the dragon, I did.
Now go and pick that useless shit which I won't even sell...
It's always funny for me to read about Lydia's iconic complaints in the english dub since she does the opposite in the German dub.
In the German dub, she says it with a respectful, almost honorable tone. Especially if you ask her what a Huscarl does; she just sounds loyal in the German dub.
Fuck, I wish I finished that German language course...
I don't think I use the word bitch lightly, in fact, needs to be something beyond the pale, but for her I'll make an exception.
It was definitely quite a shock when I kept reading jokes about Lydia being annoying.
I always choked it up to people being annoyed she blocks doors or something.
The German dub is surprisingly good, or maybe I got stockholmed after 10 years of playing it in German. She definitely has one of the nicer voices in German.
People blow it out of proportion. The majority of what she says is all honorbound and “how high should I jump, thane?” but then she also gets that one line of mocking complaint when you unload nine tons of dragon scales , cheese and forks into her pockets
I think it adds a lot to her character, even in a game where most npcs only have a handful of lines
I’m almost as annoyed with the other followers’ lines when you interact with them, so when I get a snarky one, it grates on my nerves just a bit more. I wish they could be turned off.
Also: “I just crafted and enchanted this badass set of armor, the likes of which have never been seen. I did so specifically for you, and you think it’s going to be a burden? While I’m venting, I caught you sitting in the bedroom just biting into a loaf of bread like that’s a thing that normal people do. I know I’ve got a stockpile of Eidar, at least make yourself a grilled cheese sandwich. Weirdo.”
I actually just eat chunks of bread sometimes. If it’s good bread.
I will tear chunks of well-crafted bread from the loaf and eat it like that. Just biting into the loaf is gross and unsanitary.
I dunno man I i dont think I can stand for this bread slander. I mean its rustic bread, not just some sliced white or wheat. eating good bread by itself is great, I actually think im gonna go eat half a baguette now😅
It's been so long since I played, I only remember Lydia...
And that traitorous snake with sultry voice, Astrid.
Fuck Astrid too
Also in both ways
Bro, she's married and I'm not about to cuck a werewolf (unless he's into that).
With how he acts, there's definitely a chair in their bedroom
Nah fuck you lydia tanked for me when I was weak and I will not tolerate any slander.
Oh she’ll be carrying my burdens in bed later…..
The lap dog is awsome
What makes you think we are not doing it already?
I don't play with mods, keep your activities to yourself.
Please.
I'm begging.
I can understand the temptation, just don't go looking at DF Lydia by Mahboi I'd avoid that mod if I were you.
Honestly shes the weird one. i own a massive mansion in solitude but she insists on sitting in my bedroom in whiterun watching me sleep while eating bread.
We all have our various kinks
Upvoted for the "high AF hrothgar" alone
My Dragonborn is generally not a good person with the various murders he commits and daedric princes he makes deals with. Not sure rizzing up the housecarl even makes top ten worst things he’s done.
Plus, I have an amulet of Mara, who could resist?
Those daedra would probably be on board with you doing it anyway so it makes sense. Might even be upset if you didn't lol.
Not to psychoanalyze but I think that's par for the course of being desensitized to something and being sensitized to another
We tend to ignore the evil deeds we commit, like theft or murder because it's part of gameplay and we've taken it for granted/are desensitized to it.
The logistics of grooming/abuse of power, even in a fictional setting, is something we aren't exactly desensitized too as it's not common in most games and therefore feel uncomfortable with it; not that putting on an amulet of Mara even implies that in the slightest.
It also depends on situation and characters. The game not only tells you you can kill and steal, it progresses and rewards you when you do it. Meanwhile, the game doesn't give you the power to abuse and doesn't reward you for it, so the line here is not only established by society but by the game itself.
Meanwhile, as you can see in this subreddit, we aren't as desensitized towards killing when the character that will die is liked or a friend (Paarthurnax dilemma). The game forces you to kill Paarthurnax to progress. It even rewards you with an entire faction. But most players will not even get to play it because they refuse to kill a character they love.
If the game gave the same rewards and progress to players who abused a character they don't like. Would they do it? Would they feel bad? Most big companies won't risk adding this to their game as per it would be frowned upon. Therefore we can't really know how this would affect players.
How many players that enjoy killing Nazeem would enjoy if the game gave them the chance to torture him indefinitely?
I’m not entirely sure why but I loved reading both your reply and the reply above really well said
Flame atronachs
Exactly. After I personally sacrificed my previous follower to Boethiah for a chest piece, HR violations feel like a pretty minor infraction.
In principle, I guess. But then again, where is the abuse in power of wearing an Amulet of Mara and asking if Lydia is interested? She's a Strong Nord woman who I can very much stand the sight of, she was free to say no, and she is absolutely the tank between the two of us. If she had wanted to say no, I couldn't have stopped her.
Exactly. It's not like you're forcing her into your bed.
We do have a shout called "bend will"...
Not without the right mods you aren't.
Where is a spray bottle when you need one
No spray bottle? "Psp psp pssp"
https://preview.redd.it/vm9kweqcs1dg1.jpeg?width=577&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=17d64dd231c70e8b24072ebf562977b6989eb0c2
The loverslab community probably turned the spray bottle into something sexual knowing them
You’re goddamn right we did.
Try More Colorful Potion Bottles mod maybe. :)
Amorous Adventures makes the db dialogue sound so douche, so much i would bet its on purpose. “Oh you wanted the fuck everyone mod right? Even with the ones with trauma? Well go ahead, but know this is what youre character sounds like. Inspired by you.”
Yeah, if anything, I meet Lydia while I’m basically just some little twerp who got lucky enough not to die a few times. No money, no land, no power. Sure, she was told she had to follow me around. But I see her as more of a babysitter than my subordinate.
A lot of slavers used the “I didn’t technically force them, they just said yes,” excuse as well as CEOs who boinked secretaries or female subordinates. Plenty of rape happens because the girl “didn’t technically say no.”
You are absolutely right in principle here.
That said I'm not sure this applies to Lydia or the other housecarls.
Skyrim courtship typically consists of:
Step 1: Begin wearing an Amulet of Mara to signify that you are single and looking for a relationship. Choosing to wear such an Amulet is not an advance in its own right, it means you are open to advances from others (and even then you can still say no.)
Step 2: A character who wants to marry you will begin flirting with you, sometimes directly referencing your Amulet of Mara, indicating they know its significance to Nordic Culture.
Step 3: You ask them if they are interested. They confirm that they are in fact interested. Then they ask you if you are interested. You confirm that you are.
Step 4: You agree to marry.
This entire process requires Lydia and all the other marriageable housecarls to make the first move, and for them to then double down when you ask them if they are serious. If the Dragonborn was making unsolicited advances on Lydia then yes it would be gross. But when Lydia has to make the first move it's much more acceptable.
All-in-all this is probably the best possible way they could have handled it considering the vast majority of marriage options (many of whom are either mercenaries, housecarls, or faction members) have some sort of power imbalance with the Dragonborn.
yeah lydia is actually the one committing the hr violation since there is a stringent no trying to date the thane policy
All you have to do is walk up with the amulet and she takes the initiative to flirt with you, though. That's why the response is "Interested in me, are you?"
Because of the implication.
(No but seriously this is a real thing and should not be waived aside.)
These NPCs aren’t in any kind of in danger…
I hate when people get like this. And the way people demonize people who want to romance Serana is crazy & I don't even like Serana. It's a video game guys. Fantasy vs reality. Like we can fucking behead people and join a guild of assassins where we're hired to kill a cognitively impaired homeless man. And that's all fine and good. Marrying an NPC? What is wrong with you, you creepy predator?
I hate Reddit lol
Look at that freak, wanting to use the built-in option to romance a consenting adult NPC in a video game. Now let's all talk about how much we hate & want to murder mildly annoying child NPCS.
It's not even 'you' it's a character you made up.
Pretty sure last dovahkin I did married the poor smelter guy in Markarth as I was playing a breton witch and sided with Madanach.
As much as it'd be exciting to have a fetish for smelly, dirty coal shoveller balls I'm pretty sure I was just trying to think of who my character might marry.
Look I'm absolutely playing devil's advocate here but sure early on? Lydia definitely is stronger than you later as the dragonborn becomes more powerful? Ain't nobody stopping you from taking what you want. I'm just glad the setting seems to allows them to be morally dubious but at least still have lines they dont cross.
In this game I'm a cannibal assassin vampire who breaks into people's houses every night. Really not the worst crime happening here.
I love how people roleplay this game.
I feel so vanilla in contrast.
Any attempts away from the stereotypical stealth archer or one-handed weapons quickly fizzled out.
Im pretty sure when you become a vampire, it stops being canablism
What if you eat the bodies of other vampires?
Not with that attitude...
The worst crime is not being able to marry Eola
puts on religious love necklace
AYO NICE AMULET. WANNA GET MARRIED OR SOMETHING?
So, unless you're a priest, those are only worn in broad daylight if you're looking for a partner; it's literally a giant "single" sign.
You might as well walk around the holds wearing the amulet and say this repeatedly.
I mean in lore that's what it is. Skyrim courtship culture is weird.
I wonder how effective that would be by walking around with one on during a Con? Hahaha 🤣
Just imagine having a stall near the entrance and passing out a bunch of foam amulets to blossom some romance amongst the nerds. 🤔
Bold of you to assume Lydia isn’t the one in charge here
SHE makes a pass at YOU and then you get to decide whether you're into it or not
It's literally impossible to harass a Skyrim NPC without installing some VERY specific mods
This is an…
Interesting comment section.
dear god, you just wear an amulet that tells you're single, you're not even seducing anyone. THEY ask you out.
To actually answer your question, it does not. At least not exactly. Housecarl, from the (I think) Scandinavian word housekarl means something like non servile servant. In layman's terms that means she's specifically not a slave and is probably paid through dragonsreach as basically a fancy guard. That accounts for the expensive steel armor she starts with.
Anyway, there's no social pressure for her to propose, and she doesn't even do so unless you own a house in Whiterun. This is a consistent requirement among housecarls even though Lydia is the only one who a - spawns before you purchase breezehome and b - is recruited from a city where a house can be purchased in the original version of skyrim. They aren't interested in the dragonborn unless they, the dragonborn, are rich.
For Lydia, marrying the thane is a very convenient political move. The hero of Whiterun, and later the slayer of Alduin? She'd be looking at a legendary career, with court benefits that would set her up for life.
What sort of weirdo is thinking about that seriously
yeah the housecarls totally wouldn't line up to bang the dragonborn
There is a mod for that.
That’s awful!!! …where?
Amorous Adventures adds some quest lines that result in romancing followers or popular quest givers like Ysolda. There's versions for standalone that just fade to black for scenes, then there's versions that interface with whatever adult framework you're running if you are.
They're pretty tasteful, fully voiced, and a lot of them will have you go to places you'd otherwise miss. Like...Carlotta in Whiterun will tell you her daughter's father is a deadbeat and you'll find his journals around different dungeons, finding some stuff out about him.
Don't go to Morthal.
DON'T GO TO MORTHAL.
Yeah, that one's wild.
playing with the mod now, tf is in morthal or should I just go and find out?
Just go to Morthal.
For science
Probably the manor near Falkreath, I imagine the lake makes it more romantic.
Having that visual mod is much worse behavior...
Bro is trying to discuss workplace ethics while his Lydia looks like she just walked out of a jagged IMVU lobby.
She looks like stoya.
Nothing wrong with texture mods. It’s just nudity. But any kind of sex animation mods is pretty weird I agree
Yes, I concur
proceeds to boot up HEAVILY modded Skyrim
Nothing wrong with sex mods either. Sex isn't even a bad thing in the meatspace.
You can sacrifice people to Boethiah or beat them into dedicating their soul to Baal in this game.
I have never done the Boethiah quest. It creeps me out. The funny thing is people want to do things like join the Foresworn, but never read the fine print. Then complain about "bad" mods.
It would have been great if there actually was a fully fleshed-out Forsworn campaign where we liberate the Reach from both, the Empire and the Stormcloaks. Markarth is taken by the Forsworn and its inhabitants either flee, die or become slaves.
It would fit wonderfully into the theme. No better time to take back our ancestors homeland than a civil war binding most of the occupier's forces.
It would make for serious dark fantasy that is for sure. I feel like the Forsworn should have services (smiths, shops, etc) and the like too. So you could live there. Maybe a mod to unite the tribes would be cool.
I think, there are some mods. But none make the Forsworn a real faction with quests and stuff. Impactful quest mods are pretty rare in any game. Probably because you have to touch so many vanilla quests to integrate them well.
What's odd to me is that people who condemn Christianity are often the ones now spouting puritanical Christian values like nudity and sex being amoral. That line of thinking began in the 1700s through the church. Before that, clothing was just seen as practical, particularly in cold climate. But sure, go off with all your "bonk" and "horny jail" memes, I guess. Just know that you're all spouting ideologies from 250-year-old interpretations of Genesis, emboldened in recent years by pushback against 21st century access to pornograpgy.
Turns out being a prude is a circular path.
In modern real life standards? Not really
In Skyrim? Not really
You ain't even her boss, she is more like an estate assigned bodyguard, you are just friends with her actual boss.
We can go further with that analysis, we the player don't have the power to promote or offer her incentives, only the jarl can. The only thing we can give her is a good adventure. And some loot to hoard. Anything else is her of her own agency.
You've already thought about this more than the devs did lol
Look at this thing. Do you think it has any semblance of understanding of social power, let alone how to abuse it?
https://preview.redd.it/63hpsomie2dg1.png?width=203&format=png&auto=webp&s=1128cf0ec41d33a222b2f04c187e5bc832da4d6d
I mean.... romance in Skyrim doesn't exactly have seduction. I mean you can, but why go through that effort.
You can literally walk around a city with a necklace on and get married to the first eligible person you walk up to, age appropriate of course.
https://preview.redd.it/tcf0as5s34dg1.png?width=368&format=png&auto=webp&s=87e9a25db1b59d253c59b15bfbe70732b7692053
She's not employed by you shes employed by the jarl.
People can fall in love regardless of power dynamics. Not everything is abuse Jesus Christ.
Talos Christ*
HEY, THALMOR, THIS ONE HERE!! ^
You deserve oblivion for that
Yeah this!!! I mean even by wealth alone you can make discourse about "poWeR imbAlaNce" people often goes too far with morally charged discussions that they often looping back into ironically supporting harmful outdated ideas, we can say that it is unethical for rich people to marry anyone below their tax brackets because of the power imbalance or because black people are more at disadvantage than white people then black people should only marry their own or other poc
And even without the discourses rabbit hole as you said people fall in love regardless of power dynamic and not everything is abuse
Apparently a grown woman doesn't have the agency to make a decision because of power dynamics to op
It’s very important they only date men their exact same age with exact same amount of money/income and the exact same social status.
And race because helpless poc like me must always be protected and we have no agency 🙄
I keep seeing comment that says a 21 years old woman is "basically a teenager" looping back into the Victorian era sensibility when woman were seen as weak as a child and thus they shouldn't demand any rights I see
If they don't report you to HR, I'm gonna go with "no".
Who would that be? Jarl Balgruuf?
People marry you after selling firewood to them or a tomato. I don’t think you need to force them.
Oh no, I've improperly engaged in a relationship with my subordinate after they saw me indicating romantic availability and expressed interest! How can I ever forgive myself?! Burglary, graverobbing, pockpocketing, theft, destruction of property, assault, treason, and first-, second- and third- dregree murder are all fine under my moral code, but this was a step too far, even for me. (Edited for spelling & tone)
Who is that?! Lol
No? The amulet only shows interest you and whichever housecarl you present it to have the right to refuse fullstop.please people stop trying to apply modern sensibilities to fantasy.
In regard to the setting, The morality of this is up to who your character is. I doubt that anyone would say anything to you about the ethics of it in the setting. And I mean from a more role player aspect of course.
There would likely be people that would make fun of you. There would probably be people that think it’s sweet or honorable that the depths of their oath to you, and your loyalty to them are so vast that you have solidified through marriage.
Hell in certain provinces Housecarl is more like a held office. Protecting the Jarl or Thanes of that realm regardless of who currently holds the title.
So in some ways it’s like dating your bodyguard/assistant. In others they have sworn an oath to you as a companion on a deeper level.
The real Crassius was the Dragonborns we played along the way.
Back in the day love could arise between a farmer and his maid couldn’t it?
Do you think love can bloom, even on a battlefield?
Peak reference, would dole out an award if I had one
Edit: I did
It's a video game bro, you're going to ruin it for yourself if you project irl values onto it.
Ah this is something you see a lot in games from games set in different time periods, you are applying modern day standards and morals into a world where they aren’t the same, but also how many hallmark films are there where the lead female works for a rich boss and they end up falling in love together, it’s no different with this
You jest, BUT, this is why I've never ever married Lydia. In over 1K hours on this game, I've never, not once, married the person that is "sworn to carry my burdens".
It's a game, I know it's stupid, but I always had a gut-wrenching level of ick from the idea of proposing to this person that has no choice but to do what I tell them. It's a complete turn off.
Yes. But it was a different time, and people were shorter back then.
I just marry ysolda and store drugs in the house
Sir, this is a Wendy's
Lydia comes on to ME. Lydia is in complete control of that relationship, regardless of my status as Thane and hers as housecarl. My big Nord himbo is too dumb and too focused on fighting and war to even realize his own feelings for her until she gets very aggressive.
That makes sense, but I’m pretty sure if Lydia for any reason losses favor in you, she will say no regardless of the power imbalance.
I'm the fucking dragonborn. Anyone i marry and/or interact with is a subordinate. Even those fuck ass old dudes on their lonely mountain.
Housecarl to Housewife.
Yeap, better report to HR.
Who cares?
Ummm... goth lydia 🫣
15 YEARS TODD, 15 YEARS SINCE YOU LEFT US WITH NOTHING BUT SCRAPS! NOW LOOK AT US, N'WAHS ARE ARGUING ABOUT THE MORALITY OF YOUR HALF BAKED MARRIAGE MECHANICS.
<image>
Isn’t being a thane like, minor nobility? They’re marrying upwards.
Seducing the housecarl is how you ensure your chad dragonborn genes get passed on.
https://preview.redd.it/z23up3lh92dg1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c18f76844b05f652b438f4dcb455a369e38ea0c5
In my experience Skyrim is basically just a crime and warcrime simulator so I’m not sure subordinate canoodling ranks in the “moral issues” list.
Considering we are the dragonborn, thane of all cities, leader of all guilds, champions of all daedric princes, owners of several houses (and many more things i'm now forgetting), there's not a single marriage candidate that doesn't fall under the "abuse of power" umbrella. Because we technically hold power over the lives of every person in Skyrim.
1: Most people ask you once they see you have an Amulet of Mara (granted you have to initiate dialogue).
2: I'm pretty sure half the province doesn't wipe their ass, I think they have bigger problems to deal with.
Um, I am currently a dark elf who is siding with the “Skyrim is for the Nords” faction. Clearly l, I don’t give a fuck about your moral high ground. I seduce whom I want!
Most Reddit post I’ve seen this year so far. Congrats
OP, the rule of courtship is, you have the right to ask someone out, and they have the right to accept or decline. If you assume that asking someone out is by its nature predatory, well, that's just not the case with most people.
If they say "no," they have made their choice, and that is that, and you need to respect it. If they say "no" over and over to the point where they are afraid of you and ask you to stop, and you just keep forcing yourself on them, yeah, that's SERIOUSLY wrong.
It's not predatory if the person accepts. In fact, there are people who WANT to be asked out by you. They usually hint at this, kinda like Lydia does when she tells you that her purpose in life is to be your sword and your shield, that she will protect you and all you own with her life, and similar such sentiments.
A functional marriage almost invariably results from mutual respect and admiration that progresses into love. A housecarl literally exists in respect and admiration of you to begin with, so I am of the opinion that the housecarl is 3/4s of the way there before you put the Amulet of Mara on. Becoming the Dragonborn's spouse means they'll be your equal, not subordinate.
I personally go the extra mile and arm and armor Lidya up before thinking of myself as the Dragonborn, and I give her a lot of high-quality healing potions, in the unlikely case she will need them if I do not Grand Healing her in time.
I would say there are probably some relationships that should be frowned upon, such as between a student and a professor. Both parties may want to do it, but it’s just unwise because of the potential for almost irresistible conflict of interest.
touch grass
The Dragonborn is a Demi god. There is going to be a power imbalance if you date anything less than the literal creator of the reality.
I just read all the comments about icky men getting all these sexual mods and I gotta agree, it's horrible... What's the name of this mod so I can avoid it?
“All heterosexual relationships are inherently unequal.” - I’m A Better Anarchist than You
No.
Yes. That's why I marry a priestess of Dibella.
Shid if anything Iona was predatory and abusive to me.
Well the housecarl is the one asking the dragonborn, its just a matter of saying yes or no.
It does tickle me to meet someone for the first time after they've been skulking around my nice decorated home, and they immediately propose to me knowing nothing about me except that I have a nice house and a minor noble title. Like... it definitely gives gold digger vibes but I cant blame them for it.
Lydia is looking like the predator in this case
Yes, and?
I am not totally sure you can use modern laws and morals on a fantasy world set in the equivalent of the middle-ages...
Of course it does, so why did you do it?
Besides the Amulet of Mara, I think not.
I imagine landing a Dragonborn lover would be like winning the lottery in Skyrim. Probably even better. So I really think morals and many other heinous acts would be overlooked in favor of just being a spouse to one of the most powerful non-deity’s of all time
This play through i instantly started the mara quest, then i did the quests to get him as a house carl, after that i started and completed the main story with him before accepting to marry him lmaoo We "bonded" over that time and he watched me save the world. so i avoided any "power dynamics" lol
Does it? Maybe. Am I going to continue doing it? Yes.
Pay the fine in gold or your blood.
Depends. How many housecarls have you tried this on?
Bruh. There's literally slavery and cannibalism. Pick your battles.
That's Markarth. You can't judge anything by Markarth standards
They’re sworn to carry your burdens so you’re kind of already married to them
take it up with HR
So you are worrying about predatory behaviors? Good, I'll continue my job as listener then, my job doesn't have any predatory behaviors, or power abusing, it's straight death.
It’s Skyrim not corporate America. Everything about being the Dragonborn existing is an abuse of power lol
Our character kills people daily
You can make the housecarl carry that burden for you as well.
First we should determine if you are their employer or their client
nope. seducing =/= harassment. also in skyrim context its always the npc that asks to be married to you not the way around. even with mods "fixing" this the way it works on the game makes total sense once you take into account where you are at and that youre in a medieval era. the dragonborn is straight up the best marriage prospect ingame as some would argue he is god reincarnation(part of)
Hmm... maybe
Still more wholesome than marrying your client after you killed her cousin and former lover on her request
Wearing an amulet of Mara and asking someone to marry you is not abusive. The choice is literally up to them.
However professionals have standards so my kinda evil but kinda woke khajiit vampire lord mage nightingale didn't marry a housecarl.
r/ShitDragonbornsSay
Thankfully it is Fiction and therefore matters not.
This is precisely why I burned mine alive, to avoid awkward situations such as this.
I don’t think Lydia is intimidated by my rank honestly.
Balgruuf says "I assign Lydia..." and the other Jarls all say something similer about who you get.
Pretty sure their all hold guards or swordthanes who are just assigned to you; their actual bosses are the Jarls.
Labor laws don't exist bro.
This is tamriel
We need an AnyAustin video on HR violations in Skyrim
Honestly, before 1980 most relationships had such a toxic power dynamic, in medieval times nobody would have cared
It's a game...
No, nobody would do that.
I mean the girl is risking her life for me in the worst situations a guard can imagine and she still sticks around. If that isn't marriage material
Well you're basically wearing the amulet that says you're available, and the Housecarl question you about it, prompting you to question if they're interested which they confirm, sounds like a mutual agreement.
Nah, because the amulet of Mara just lets everyone on the market know that you are available and looking, they have to do the rest.
Damn Lydia with that outfit you’re the one seducing me
(What is that outfit)
Nope
I really wish we got backstories on the housecarls, like they just APPEAR and Lydia's dialogue always sounds as though she does NOT want to be there, like girl what does Balgruuf have on you? 😭