Soulslike fans may win the award for the worst type of content creators they praise, which is a shame, because I remember when I discovered the genre back in DS1, onlyafro, and content such as challenge runs were the most popular and praised.
“Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up, she was shitting brown water. The more she drank the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew.”
If I remember the timing, it was directly stated by GRMM when the game came out. The quote was something like "I wrote what happened 1k years before the game events", which can mean the shattering or just the world we are in.
It is not even hard to notice: everything about the shattering, and pre shattering looks like a lite "A Song of Ice and Fire", or if you don't like the "lite" term, inspired may be more correct. Every present event, instead, the plot we may say, it's pretty much a classic dark souls (doesn't mean a carbon copy, before someone may read this in the wrong way).
Redgrave pretty much already did it and realised that so much of it is up to interpretation that there could be a thousand ways to state it and they're all right
absolutely dogshit. they just yanked the whole thing out and left my skull in some random ass fishing hamlet. some kinda curse going on there so OF COURSE I, the discarded evil skull, got cursed and now i'm a shitty hunter's tool that's outclassed by basically everything by the time you get me. sucks
Fandom is probably the better option now. There’s been a ton of shit fextralife got wrong since Elden rings release because they had fucking AI write the pages for shit. The entire Silksong fextralife wiki was all AI generated, all the quest descriptions, items, you name it. Like we all knew the fextralife guy was a cock because he would just steal peoples builds in souls games he found on YouTube, then remake them into his own video and plug them on the website without crediting the original build videos. He also plugs his twitch on the site with a live stream built into it so it eats your fucking ram and internet when you open it too look for an item location. Fuck that dude, he’s a real cock.
Elden Ring also has a wiki gg site and I recommend trying to use it more than fandom because of the latter’s policies and practices being generally not the best for readers and contributors.
Just don't use Fandom for lore. They'll say something, cite it, and the citation will either have nothing to do with what they said or even contradict it. It's the page writers fan fic basically.
This but kind of unironically. All the merch and shit he hawks is like "Dark Souls is so cool dude. Look at this Dark Souls shirt and Dark Souls fanart you should buy from me." Like I get a guy has to eat, but you can only make videos about the same 4 games for so long.
Didn’t know this sub was a congress for vaati haters lmfao. I don’t even watch his video anymore but this shit just funny
Edit: also the people acting like fromsoft's game lore are hot garbage or mystery slop are kinda tiring lmao. No, dark souls lore is not hard to understand, but it is big, has a lot of very cool characters and is just awesome all around. The only game where fromsoft pushed too much the cryptic side of things is elden ring.
Vendrick and aldia are still some of my favouritr characters in any video game.
And if anyone wants to read a complete dark souls lore book, i highly recommend abyssal archives from lokey, an unofficial but pretty damn good lore book on ds1. Lokey also has a pretty good website which compile a lot of lore.
He literally said which part is fact and which part is his speculation, then people pretend the whole thing is factual lol. Miyazaki created souls lore the way it is to encourage people like vatii and many other lore enjoyer to have discussion
Shitpost subs are notorious for disguised hate as jokes to combat criticism or arguments
It’s a fun parody until someone takes either the joke to far, or the criticism with the up most seriousness, there is a nice middle ground but not up to me to decide it
Honestly I think we just haven’t had enough time with Elden Ring yet. The story Martin wrote for Miyazaki is much more complex than what they had worked with in the past, as Miyazaki has said himself.
Dark Souls has been out for over a decade, while we’ve only had the full picture with Shadow of the Erdtree for just over a year.
I’m not to sure that any new interpretations will be “popularized” outside of the lore scene. Though perhaps if content creators that focus more on themes, characters, and stories, rather than lore - then creators have the potential for their ideas to take the spotlight in broader community. I think we may see more interpretations of characters motivations during The Shattering War come to light in the coming years.
People think lore is neat, but stories are something community can be built around.
I don’t remember where I read this but I believe GRRM wrote the groundwork, the mythology, the characters and the basic history of the world and then Miyzaki took all of that, pushed everything forward in time and turned it all to shit. So the sheer volume of the story is just much bigger.
I don’t dislike Vaati, he is quite good sometimes but often he adds personal interpretation in his videos without stating its personal interpretation making it hard to make your own theories. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I wish there was a less interpreted overview of the lore.
He does say it’s personal interpretation, he always says it after what he’s talking about. In fairness, it’s Vaati, so his voice has no inflections or differences to tell otherwise so basically everyone thinks he doesn’t say that because it blends in with everything else. But I’m here to tell you, he does indeed say that a lot of stuff is his own take, interpretation, opinion, whatever flavor of word you like. He’s been doing that for as long as Dark Souls 3 at least. Hell his entire video about the theory of bloodborne, dark souls and demon souls all being connected? He made a 20 minute video on it, breaking it down and drawing all the connections and the guy doesn’t even believe it himself.
i think he said it a lot lol? or are we watching the same content? Also, the lore of souls series was created in a way to encourage discussion and different interpretation, which is why miyazaki will never release the factual lore of any of his games
If you need someone to dedicate their life to decoding the lore of fromsoft games on YouTube then yes, the lore is hard to understand. No one save a few crazy people would have any idea what's going on in the lore if it wasn't for YouTube and people like vaati. Saying its not hard to understand is just simply false and you know it
Nah I really disagree. The lore isn’t hard to grasp through gameplay context and item descriptions, it’s just that certain parts of it are left vague to create intrigue. Stuff like the plot against the gods is pretty much all explored by YouTubers trying to fill in the blanks, but 80% of the lore can be found by a normal player just playing the games.
Nope lmao. And i don’t wanna come off as pretentious, but talking with the npcs is more than enough to know the overall plot. Of course if you want to know exactly how the world works and every side of the lore people lile vaati are necessary.
But no i don’t think the overall plot is hard to understand.
People who try to shit on him by going "ugh, it's ackschually just his headcanon tho" are so funny to me because 1: almost everything people say about the story/lore is mostly headcanon and 2: Michelle Zachary and GRRM could have personally written that book and the idiots on the ER lore sub would still lose their shit about it and not consider it "canon"
I can already picture the legendary crashout people will have about the elden ring movie (if it ever does come out)
You kinda cant tell a cohesive narrative about elden ring without being willing to interpret things. Like if you only stick to stuff thats explicitly written and non-ambigious, you just wont get very far.
I wish they’d actually commit to making a genuine story in one of these games for once. I do not find having to read item descriptions to get an ounce of narrative engaging at all. It doesn’t even make sense, where is this info coming from?
Dark Souls 1 is the only Souls game that does this and everything since has just repeated the same story beats but worse.
I have no fucking idea, i don't have the highest hopes tho, especially with how those adaptations usually come out (just look at the new Animal Farm trailer, that shit is beyond insultingly turbo ass)
almost everything people say about the story/lore is mostly headcanon
Exactly, which is why a book is an atrocious choice of medium. Things like youtube videos and reddit threads invite discussion and occasionally even a smidge of critical thinking, but a book doesn't have a comments section.
Not to mention, publishing a book comes across as way more official than other mediums, especially when it's done by someone as well known as Vaati. People who aren't super hardcore about the story (which I imagine is most of the people buying this book), could easily misconstrue this as the objective, factual story of Elden Ring.
I don't think Vaati necessarily has malicious intent. At worst, it's a money grab. But regardless, I think you have to be extremely arrogant to publish your own headcanon about lore as amorphous and equivocal as this, as a fucking book.
I think you have to be extremely arrogant to publish your own headcanon about lore as amorphous and equivocal as this, as a fucking book.
by why? historically, people write books about much more amorphous topics than Elden Ring, and I don't see a problem with it. I just finished a book about Twin Peaks, I disagreed with most of it, but it's still cool. It's not like he's selling it as the "correct" interpretation, just his interpretation... right?
Also, it depends on the content of the book. He may very well acknowledge the obscure nature of some elements, and that would be fair.
I'm honestly not sure why people are so against a project like this.
Not hating on anyone here, just talking facts. I like his content, with that said:
He doesnt even do that. Its been known for years he just takes shit from forums. Hell he even admitted to doing it years back after people caught on to it. The only thing that changed is he now credits the people who come up with the ideas he uses.
The lore became so incomprehensible that a new wave of "actually it's cringe to even bother caring" sentiment started to take root.
That said, I personally think the only interesting form of analysis at this point is comparing how the different translations approach the material, and what cut content can show us.
The lore became so incomprehensible that a new wave of "actually it's cringe to even bother caring" sentiment started to take root.
That's because Shadow of the Erdtree came out and gave us the worst From lore ever with the entire Promised Consort Radahn storyline, which is massively contradictory and comes out of nowhere.
Its more than that though. The DLC is DEDICATED to being as little connected to the basegame to the point of feeling like a retcon(not saying it is just that it feels like it). Nobody in the basegame can talk abt it or interact with the new story. The new lore feels tacked on in such a cheap way with no answers to 95% of the questions we had. Thematically kinda garbage compared to base game and it ends on a "wait what?".
Oh all the Miquella and Radahn shit im like 70-80% sure was completely out of Miyazakis ass. I meant more the rest of the lore introduced as weve had next to nothing on most of it prior. "But its sooooooo hidden there was no way of knowingggg ooooooooohhhh" it feels lame to me. Other fs dlc have this problem but at least there the promo doesnt have one of the most mysterious characters riding torrent towards a tree that looks like deathroot and none of that pays off or means anything at all.
Not a ri Vaati but his interpretations haven't been the Best for a while and selling his interpretation might feel like he's monetizing his community - especially since it ofc is based on an IP he has no rights towards
Not necesarry anti-vati but a lot of people are against incomprlehensible glaze this guy gets for creating - at best - mid theories, which are taken as canon by braindead community
Coming from the HK community. I like mossbag's videos, he is funny and I like his sense of humor, but the glaze gets tiring and he gets many things glaringly wrong.
I guess it's a similar case here. I have never watched Vati to compare honestly.
Yep, this is very good comparison. I am also part of HK community so I know the drill - in my honest opinion, Silksong Lore video is simply wrong on so many levels and narration is weirdly put together. But oh boy, if you try to suggest this to Silkson community.. Well, same result as saying this about Vati
One was just the general attrition of interest in the way that he kept on trying to push his medium. He tried to keep on making it more and more epic and more and more involved and it just came across as incredibly self-important.
The other point that really destroyed it for me was when he partnered with some TV or computer monitor brand for his armored core videos and made his armored core mech look like the brand... Without a single hint of irony.
The dude is supposed to be the lore guy for these games and he went and did the one thing without any irony that the game warns us against being good.
He's been milking this for so long and he's been getting worse and worse at it. At this point I actually cringe whenever I hear his voice.
Are you surprised? This sub is filled with some of the most miserable mofos in the fromsoft community. An unholy concoction of souls elitism and redditor behavior.
I like Vaati hes cool and his videos are fun to watch and listen too. Hes very soothing. But the lore of Elden Ring reminds me of when people were trying to justify Elden Ring being nominated for Best Narrative at TGA.
I’d like to get excited for this but the last book he made was ridiculously expensive. I’m not paying 100-200$ for a book of stuff that’s just reiterating stuff from a fan wiki. Why does it have to be so over priced
I think people forget this is supposed to be an ironic sub, and that most of us actually like having fun and whimsey in our hearts. Also im very excited for this book :>
I was watching one of his videos some time ago and thought that if you took a shot every time he says "maybe","perhaps", "it is speculated that" and stuff like that you'd be dead after the first 4 minutes of the video.
Not just surface level, but extrapolates multiple points departed from anything that has been datamined in order to throw a further theory measured only by its clickability.
Really, I’m not quite sure who this is for. People really into artistic analysis of these games are usually of the opinion that Vaati is good for hype and aura moments, but rarely goes into themes and the human element.
Who knows, maybe this is going to be a really big shift for Vaati and he’s going to blow me away - but I’m not holding my breath.
i don’t watch a lot of lore but would like to get into it a lot more for all the fromsoft games, if vaati is pretty surface level who would you recommend to watch?
Jack is a Mimic is my personal favorite. He has a really good grasp on all of GRRM’s and Miyazaki’s work and uses that knowledge to piece together not just Elden Ring’s lore, but its story. He doesn’t just throw a bunch of esoteric slop at you, but presents Elden Ring’s mythos as the complex character drama that GRRM is known for producing.
“The mythology Mr. Martin wrote for us was incredibly compelling - mysterious, layered, and filled with dramatic characters whose stories were built upon tangled bloodlines and complex relationships. It functions as mythology, but also as history, and even as epic poetry.” - Miyazaki
One of the things that Jack frequently brings up, is a quote from GRRM saying that the only thing worth writing about is the human heart in conflict with itself. This is at the heart of all of Jack’s theorizing and makes him my go to for lore and story.
But if you want some of the craziest theorizing you’ve ever heard then also check out Scum Mage Infa. He’s fun too.
Quelaag, Tarnished Archeologist, Smough Town and Hawkshaw. Those are just the ones off the top of my head but there’s loads of lore youtubers that all exist on a unique place on the surface level to deep spectrum
I personally like FatBrett and Hawkshaw for Elden Ring. The Snack Covenant is a good podcast with decent analysis, but they’re also big goofs who like to go on wild tangents.
Honey Bat’s Bloodborne video is a pretty definitive analysis of that game (“Viscerally Feminine” is in the title).
Honestly, I’d look for channels that do more general fiction analysis rather than specific to a game or series, they tend to be a little more well rounded.
people are just going to buy this to support him because parasocial relationship bullshit and never open it more than once. this is a perfect cash grab for a dude whos run out of ideas because there's no new souls game to parasite off of.
Explaining lore isn't something I would describe as being a parasite especially for games that let me see....AHH yes famously obtuse and intentionally fragmented on the lore front.
I don't even know that guy but that is some next level hate I see.
“Alright Vaati discord, im gonna need you guys to compile all your ideas so I can copy paste them into this word doc and publish it! Thanks for donating to the Patreon!”
me personally, because this is the exact OPPOSITE of what gaming should be about.
much of the discourse, content and thus investment and attention has been hijacked by people that don't care about making good games with a good story you can actually ", press a button and enjoy "
just grifters, hypers, simpers whose (negative) contribution would be the exact same even if elden ring was a point and click adventure with 40 hours of unskippanle cinematics
What does this comment mean? So someone studies a video game and then shares their found knowledge with the world as something you can choose to buy or not and thats bad? I don't understand.
Omg 400 pages of things verbatim said to the player in cutscenes and item descriptions and ideas stolen from other lore theorists without credit 😍 just take my money
Amazing, bro get all his theories on reddit, presented them in 20 hours cinema-like-slop videos and now he is going to monetize it AGAIN in the form of the book. This community is trurly braindead
For his Armored core 6 theory's you don`t even have to wait for a sequel or expansion, you just have to look at the game itself and have basic media literacy.
Eldeb rings actual lore is like 5 sentences long at best. This shit is entirely made up, vaati literally just wrote his own, completely original fantasy book. Bro could have been the next Tolkien if he didn't base his channel around slop.
They’re not. There’s been criticisms towards Vaati for almost a decade by ‘veteran’ lore fans. Some of it is justified like him stealing from other creators, and some of it is just ‘guy popular therefore bad’
Is the stealing thing actually proven tho, i can easily believe it but all i remember is that one video where the guy Photoshopped vaatis profile pic sucking dick and preemptively calling everyone that might disagree a child/fanboy or something
I don't even know if vaati ever made a statement or response
The main case I know about is with Redgrave, in which case Vaati’s writing was essentially one to one in multiple cases. It honestly just felt like laziness more than anything else, but it’s understandable Redgrave was upset considering how much work he put into the paleblood hunt. The two had a civil discussion about it and sorted it all out from what I understand.
From what I gathered watching Vaati’s Bloodborne content, it’s clear he just didn’t care about the game at all. So laziness on his part seems pretty fair.
I really wish I had thought of making money off of the product of someone else's hard work and parroting discussions about it had by other people to my semi obsessive follower base. It seems like a really comfy job
Vaati is cool and will always be part of the souls experience. You guys ain’t talking about how Giant Dads creator, OnlyAfro is being deported. That’s pretty shitty.
https://preview.redd.it/w1l3herx307g1.jpeg?width=672&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98e70dc8191bb216517d961c7b39fb80343a1877
wait till he finds out that souls players cant read
That's how he made money for an entire decade and the reason behind his popularity, of course he knows that.
Soulslike fans may win the award for the worst type of content creators they praise, which is a shame, because I remember when I discovered the genre back in DS1, onlyafro, and content such as challenge runs were the most popular and praised.
https://preview.redd.it/w7cvvbk4707g1.png?width=1440&format=png&auto=webp&s=eb177f527fba32e15359a9e662c4fce0b9e28a3d
Really thought that was a Baki character at first glance.
It’s jjk all over again
https://preview.redd.it/11qci1p0127g1.jpeg?width=1320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9678bc4515887d779dd0768067fab21dfaf3a4bb
Its not like he can read either
Imagine miyazki reading it
"damn i made all this? i was just horny"
*GRRM
“Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up, she was shitting brown water. The more she drank the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew.”
Where is this even from?
Context dictates something in game of thrones
Danaerys got dysentery in book 1 🤷♀️
*book 5
Danaerysentary.
Shadynasty-tary
A Dance with Dragons, book 5 of A song of Ice and Fire by Jorjor Martin
Beautiful prose
Elite ball knowledge
GRRM wrote the lore pre shattering
Do we know that? I've just not heard of anything saying what his specific contributions were. I'd like to learn more!
It's the only thing he's ever said in an interview.
"I wrote the background, they took the world and made the game to take place at a later time" basically
If I remember the timing, it was directly stated by GRMM when the game came out. The quote was something like "I wrote what happened 1k years before the game events", which can mean the shattering or just the world we are in. It is not even hard to notice: everything about the shattering, and pre shattering looks like a lite "A Song of Ice and Fire", or if you don't like the "lite" term, inspired may be more correct. Every present event, instead, the plot we may say, it's pretty much a classic dark souls (doesn't mean a carbon copy, before someone may read this in the wrong way).
I noticed that, too, I just wonder how much they had modified from that baseline.
It's a testament to how well it was all interwoven!
he wrote for elden ring so he wouldn't have to finish the books
idk but he definitely wrote the part about Rya's mom fucking a snake
Well, him and George R. R. Martin. But yah.
They horny.
Reminds me of someone who made a Kickstarter to create a massive book on Bloodborne’s lore and then never released it
https://preview.redd.it/5z4ou5l4a07g1.png?width=268&format=png&auto=webp&s=e37e19a40c7087b3228b92024424d370c55f7209
Redgrave pretty much already did it and realised that so much of it is up to interpretation that there could be a thousand ways to state it and they're all right
how was your lobotomy?
Also im #1 >:(
absolutely dogshit. they just yanked the whole thing out and left my skull in some random ass fishing hamlet. some kinda curse going on there so OF COURSE I, the discarded evil skull, got cursed and now i'm a shitty hunter's tool that's outclassed by basically everything by the time you get me. sucks
I can't imagine how insane you have to be to try and sell something based on the JP company IP.
That guy is 100% a funny bulbous blue squid guy rn, got too close to truth.
there is already a book everybody can read on Bloodborne lore though
Which one
As mentioned above Redgrave made ‘the paleblood hunt’ You can find a good audio version on spotify or podcast places.
Actualy it released 2 months ago from an Italian Streamer/Youtuber. https://roundtwo.world/pages/apokalypsis-blood
No way I got Vaati’s book early
https://preview.redd.it/5tm76jx1c07g1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d837b217baa1d3c5d4aaea34770c3eb4960dd321
Fetlife has a Wikipedia?
Less masochist than playing ds2
Make a new game in DS2, then run the character through to Lothric Castle after cheating to get 1 million Soul Memory.
Get the Frozen Flower key for the DLC and go to Ivory King DLC to place the character at Frigid Outskirts.
Now find someone who's never played DS2 and force them to play Frigid Outskirts to the boss fog with a shock collar on.
Every time they get hit shock em, you can replace the shock collar with any device you see fit to use instead, but it has to be remote controlled.
Congratulations, you now have a sadomasochistic torture cycle for whatever deviant desires you have.
DS2 Lothric Castle 🤔
Nah bro Frigid Outskirts is peak.
Although, Hasan ahh game
Don’t even joke lad… Fextralife uses AI to fill out its pages now…
What the fuck? Damn that's fucking shit. Is there a good wiki for looking up info on Elden Ring? I mostly use for item and NPC quest information
Fandom is probably the better option now. There’s been a ton of shit fextralife got wrong since Elden rings release because they had fucking AI write the pages for shit. The entire Silksong fextralife wiki was all AI generated, all the quest descriptions, items, you name it. Like we all knew the fextralife guy was a cock because he would just steal peoples builds in souls games he found on YouTube, then remake them into his own video and plug them on the website without crediting the original build videos. He also plugs his twitch on the site with a live stream built into it so it eats your fucking ram and internet when you open it too look for an item location. Fuck that dude, he’s a real cock.
Elden Ring also has a wiki gg site and I recommend trying to use it more than fandom because of the latter’s policies and practices being generally not the best for readers and contributors.
“Fandom is probably the better option” is a fucking depressing sentence to read
Thanks for the recommendation bro. Fuck this guy
Just don't use Fandom for lore. They'll say something, cite it, and the citation will either have nothing to do with what they said or even contradict it. It's the page writers fan fic basically.
What a sad state of affairs it is when the statement "Fandom is probably the better option now" can be stated with full honesty
Damn thanks for the heads up. I’ll use fandom from now on. I only used fextra cause it’s always the first site that pops up
Yeah me too honestly, you and like everyone else to be fair.
Miyazaki's teat shriveled up so now he's yapping about the same stuff but on paper.
There's plenty of other games with deep-but-obscure lore.
I would watch Vaati do some vids on Path of Exile, for instance.
PoE, Warhammer (although this has a pretty hardcore and established lore community already), Fallout, Elder Scrolls, older Armored Core games, etc.
I made my name and income during high-school and college by writing about random lore stuff from Fallout. It was shockingly easy.
Fallout has exceptionally robust and interesting lore. I’ve listened through The Storyteller probably 50 times.
This but kind of unironically. All the merch and shit he hawks is like "Dark Souls is so cool dude. Look at this Dark Souls shirt and Dark Souls fanart you should buy from me." Like I get a guy has to eat, but you can only make videos about the same 4 games for so long.
Average based -1000 downvoted comment.
Now, if ZullieTheWitch wrote a book unpacking all the discoveries they've made via map hacks and meta data, I'd preorder the shit outta that
Didn’t know this sub was a congress for vaati haters lmfao. I don’t even watch his video anymore but this shit just funny
Edit: also the people acting like fromsoft's game lore are hot garbage or mystery slop are kinda tiring lmao. No, dark souls lore is not hard to understand, but it is big, has a lot of very cool characters and is just awesome all around. The only game where fromsoft pushed too much the cryptic side of things is elden ring.
Vendrick and aldia are still some of my favouritr characters in any video game.
And if anyone wants to read a complete dark souls lore book, i highly recommend abyssal archives from lokey, an unofficial but pretty damn good lore book on ds1. Lokey also has a pretty good website which compile a lot of lore.
That is exactly how I feel, I don’t watch him Anymore but it’s cool he was able to organize it into a book;
But this is a shit post dark souls sub, it’s kind of their thing to hate pouplar content
He literally said which part is fact and which part is his speculation, then people pretend the whole thing is factual lol. Miyazaki created souls lore the way it is to encourage people like vatii and many other lore enjoyer to have discussion
>it’s kind of their thing to hate pouplar content
In a funny way.
Some of the hate here is clearly pretty sincere and honestly kinda sad.
Shitpost subs are notorious for disguised hate as jokes to combat criticism or arguments
It’s a fun parody until someone takes either the joke to far, or the criticism with the up most seriousness, there is a nice middle ground but not up to me to decide it
Honestly I think we just haven’t had enough time with Elden Ring yet. The story Martin wrote for Miyazaki is much more complex than what they had worked with in the past, as Miyazaki has said himself.
Dark Souls has been out for over a decade, while we’ve only had the full picture with Shadow of the Erdtree for just over a year.
Any predictions for what new information/interpretations you think will be popularized down the road?
Definitely hard to say.
I’m not to sure that any new interpretations will be “popularized” outside of the lore scene. Though perhaps if content creators that focus more on themes, characters, and stories, rather than lore - then creators have the potential for their ideas to take the spotlight in broader community. I think we may see more interpretations of characters motivations during The Shattering War come to light in the coming years.
People think lore is neat, but stories are something community can be built around.
I don’t remember where I read this but I believe GRRM wrote the groundwork, the mythology, the characters and the basic history of the world and then Miyzaki took all of that, pushed everything forward in time and turned it all to shit. So the sheer volume of the story is just much bigger.
I don’t dislike Vaati, he is quite good sometimes but often he adds personal interpretation in his videos without stating its personal interpretation making it hard to make your own theories. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I wish there was a less interpreted overview of the lore.
He does say it’s personal interpretation, he always says it after what he’s talking about. In fairness, it’s Vaati, so his voice has no inflections or differences to tell otherwise so basically everyone thinks he doesn’t say that because it blends in with everything else. But I’m here to tell you, he does indeed say that a lot of stuff is his own take, interpretation, opinion, whatever flavor of word you like. He’s been doing that for as long as Dark Souls 3 at least. Hell his entire video about the theory of bloodborne, dark souls and demon souls all being connected? He made a 20 minute video on it, breaking it down and drawing all the connections and the guy doesn’t even believe it himself.
i think he said it a lot lol? or are we watching the same content? Also, the lore of souls series was created in a way to encourage discussion and different interpretation, which is why miyazaki will never release the factual lore of any of his games
This sub is full of Lobotomite Albinaurics. Like, that was the entire point
If you need someone to dedicate their life to decoding the lore of fromsoft games on YouTube then yes, the lore is hard to understand. No one save a few crazy people would have any idea what's going on in the lore if it wasn't for YouTube and people like vaati. Saying its not hard to understand is just simply false and you know it
Nah I really disagree. The lore isn’t hard to grasp through gameplay context and item descriptions, it’s just that certain parts of it are left vague to create intrigue. Stuff like the plot against the gods is pretty much all explored by YouTubers trying to fill in the blanks, but 80% of the lore can be found by a normal player just playing the games.
Nope lmao. And i don’t wanna come off as pretentious, but talking with the npcs is more than enough to know the overall plot. Of course if you want to know exactly how the world works and every side of the lore people lile vaati are necessary.
But no i don’t think the overall plot is hard to understand.
5% actual lore (that's all the lore that there is in the game)
95% stuff that sounds cool if it were real (it's not)
"This book will bind together everything I've learned" sounds like something a wizard says before disappearing mysteriously
I always wanted to be that wizard.
People who try to shit on him by going "ugh, it's ackschually just his headcanon tho" are so funny to me because 1: almost everything people say about the story/lore is mostly headcanon and 2: Michelle Zachary and GRRM could have personally written that book and the idiots on the ER lore sub would still lose their shit about it and not consider it "canon"
I can already picture the legendary crashout people will have about the elden ring movie (if it ever does come out)
Me watching the Elden Ring movie.
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I really hope they put the Morgott vs Radahn duel in the movie. No matter who wins countless people will crash out over it
I thought the outcome was obvious, Fraudahn lost to base Margit.
correction. Golden young prime radhan lost against game´s first boss: old man with stick
So how's the Elden Ring movie gonna work with the whole custom player character thing?
or is it just about the backstory lore, like the Shattering War? 'cause that could be cool
You kinda cant tell a cohesive narrative about elden ring without being willing to interpret things. Like if you only stick to stuff thats explicitly written and non-ambigious, you just wont get very far.
I wish they’d actually commit to making a genuine story in one of these games for once. I do not find having to read item descriptions to get an ounce of narrative engaging at all. It doesn’t even make sense, where is this info coming from?
Dark Souls 1 is the only Souls game that does this and everything since has just repeated the same story beats but worse.
Dark souls lore is to worldbuilding what American Pie is to storytelling
so… Peak?
This isn't a criticism, this is a genuine question
How involved are fromsoft or GRRM with said movie?
I have no fucking idea, i don't have the highest hopes tho, especially with how those adaptations usually come out (just look at the new Animal Farm trailer, that shit is beyond insultingly turbo ass)
Tbf, with the sonic trilogy, I think there's a decent chance.
Cautiously optimistic though.
If it lets him not write Winds of Winter even harder, you can bet your ass Martin's gonna be on set all day every day
Martin is an executive producer on the movie. That’s about all we know so far.
I mean sometime he just imagine things tbh like the crucible tree never existed and it is a translation error it has always been the great tree
Exactly, which is why a book is an atrocious choice of medium. Things like youtube videos and reddit threads invite discussion and occasionally even a smidge of critical thinking, but a book doesn't have a comments section.
Not to mention, publishing a book comes across as way more official than other mediums, especially when it's done by someone as well known as Vaati. People who aren't super hardcore about the story (which I imagine is most of the people buying this book), could easily misconstrue this as the objective, factual story of Elden Ring.
I don't think Vaati necessarily has malicious intent. At worst, it's a money grab. But regardless, I think you have to be extremely arrogant to publish your own headcanon about lore as amorphous and equivocal as this, as a fucking book.
by why? historically, people write books about much more amorphous topics than Elden Ring, and I don't see a problem with it. I just finished a book about Twin Peaks, I disagreed with most of it, but it's still cool. It's not like he's selling it as the "correct" interpretation, just his interpretation... right?
Also, it depends on the content of the book. He may very well acknowledge the obscure nature of some elements, and that would be fair.
I'm honestly not sure why people are so against a project like this.
Elden ring chuds will say that the translations of Zaki to English and GRRM to japanese are inaccurate and so none of the lore is canon
Wait people reaction when they discover that there is no crucible tree and it always been the great tree and that vaati just used a bad translation
Unfortunately I bet Vaati's misinterpretation is going to be basically set in stone after this.
Bro makes huge bank just reading item descriptions for one hour over a video of the player charcter walking slowly. Gotta respect the hustle.
People have been doing basically the same with WW2 documents for 80 years.
Not hating on anyone here, just talking facts. I like his content, with that said:
He doesnt even do that. Its been known for years he just takes shit from forums. Hell he even admitted to doing it years back after people caught on to it. The only thing that changed is he now credits the people who come up with the ideas he uses.
He doesn`t even check if the shit he takes from forums blatantly contradicts the lore stated in game
What forums? I’m assuming not just Reddit since that would be so obvious
now days reddit, discord and twitter.
Yeah but that voice though
Dedicated to “Let Me Solo Her”
When did this sub become so anti-Vaati?
newsflash: this sub sucks
The lore became so incomprehensible that a new wave of "actually it's cringe to even bother caring" sentiment started to take root.
That said, I personally think the only interesting form of analysis at this point is comparing how the different translations approach the material, and what cut content can show us.
That's because Shadow of the Erdtree came out and gave us the worst From lore ever with the entire Promised Consort Radahn storyline, which is massively contradictory and comes out of nowhere.
Its more than that though. The DLC is DEDICATED to being as little connected to the basegame to the point of feeling like a retcon(not saying it is just that it feels like it). Nobody in the basegame can talk abt it or interact with the new story. The new lore feels tacked on in such a cheap way with no answers to 95% of the questions we had. Thematically kinda garbage compared to base game and it ends on a "wait what?".
It is a retcon, we know that the base game lore was building up to a very different ending for Miquella and co. from cut content.
Oh all the Miquella and Radahn shit im like 70-80% sure was completely out of Miyazakis ass. I meant more the rest of the lore introduced as weve had next to nothing on most of it prior. "But its sooooooo hidden there was no way of knowingggg ooooooooohhhh" it feels lame to me. Other fs dlc have this problem but at least there the promo doesnt have one of the most mysterious characters riding torrent towards a tree that looks like deathroot and none of that pays off or means anything at all.
Not a ri Vaati but his interpretations haven't been the Best for a while and selling his interpretation might feel like he's monetizing his community - especially since it ofc is based on an IP he has no rights towards
Not necesarry anti-vati but a lot of people are against incomprlehensible glaze this guy gets for creating - at best - mid theories, which are taken as canon by braindead community
Coming from the HK community. I like mossbag's videos, he is funny and I like his sense of humor, but the glaze gets tiring and he gets many things glaringly wrong.
I guess it's a similar case here. I have never watched Vati to compare honestly.
Yep, this is very good comparison. I am also part of HK community so I know the drill - in my honest opinion, Silksong Lore video is simply wrong on so many levels and narration is weirdly put together. But oh boy, if you try to suggest this to Silkson community.. Well, same result as saying this about Vati
Two moments for me.
One was just the general attrition of interest in the way that he kept on trying to push his medium. He tried to keep on making it more and more epic and more and more involved and it just came across as incredibly self-important.
The other point that really destroyed it for me was when he partnered with some TV or computer monitor brand for his armored core videos and made his armored core mech look like the brand... Without a single hint of irony.
The dude is supposed to be the lore guy for these games and he went and did the one thing without any irony that the game warns us against being good.
He's been milking this for so long and he's been getting worse and worse at it. At this point I actually cringe whenever I hear his voice.
God his Armored core 6 lore video was so god dam bad. The genocidal freaks finally left the community only for him to bring them right back.
When people realized all he did was read wikipedia pages in a monotone voice.
4chan/ reddit pages
Are you surprised? This sub is filled with some of the most miserable mofos in the fromsoft community. An unholy concoction of souls elitism and redditor behavior.
I like Vaati hes cool and his videos are fun to watch and listen too. Hes very soothing. But the lore of Elden Ring reminds me of when people were trying to justify Elden Ring being nominated for Best Narrative at TGA.
I’d like to get excited for this but the last book he made was ridiculously expensive. I’m not paying 100-200$ for a book of stuff that’s just reiterating stuff from a fan wiki. Why does it have to be so over priced
200 pages dedicated to GOATscourge Chadan’s feats
200 pages dedicated to Fraudlenia’s fumbles
400 pages dedicated to the Hornsent Grandam bang cutscene
there was just so much to unpack
Finally I can wipe my ass with slop
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I think people forget this is supposed to be an ironic sub, and that most of us actually like having fun and whimsey in our hearts. Also im very excited for this book :>
I see plenty of genuine hatred in the comments, like damn calm down all he does is videos about stories in games
its genuinely so bizarre
No actually he's a literal terrorist
Perfect to put next to my dark souls 2 tissues.
I'm just saying that Hollow Knight's skongers got their game after sacrificing their funny lore guy.
Patchesmaxxing
does elden ring even have 400 pages worth of lore?
10 pages of item descriptions and dialogue copied verbatim.
45 pages of completely misrepresenting the above.
90 pages of the most insanely schizophrenic pareidolia hand-picked from r/EldenRingLoreTalk.
50 pages of unhinged, somewhat erotic hetslash fanfiction.
50 pages of baseless speculation directly contradicted by the text in-game.
50 pages of theories stolen from 4chan.
50 pages of the most unfounded conjecture you could've gotten.
50 pages of explicitly non-canon Nightreign lore, of which the "non-canon" part is deliberately ignored.
5 pages of translation errors.
4 Monstrous crows
3 French gambesons
2 Turtle priests
and a Partisan in a Erd tree!
What’s the length of the average scum mage infa script?
I was watching one of his videos some time ago and thought that if you took a shot every time he says "maybe","perhaps", "it is speculated that" and stuff like that you'd be dead after the first 4 minutes of the video.
I mean, that's how the lore works tho?
Perhaps you're right, but maybe I will die. It is speculated that drinking that many shots could kill a man.
Dude is the weakest lore tuber at this point. Not trying to mean it's just true lol.
Surface layer lore analyst and professional item description reader slop just dropped babe!
Not just surface level, but extrapolates multiple points departed from anything that has been datamined in order to throw a further theory measured only by its clickability.
Really, I’m not quite sure who this is for. People really into artistic analysis of these games are usually of the opinion that Vaati is good for hype and aura moments, but rarely goes into themes and the human element.
Who knows, maybe this is going to be a really big shift for Vaati and he’s going to blow me away - but I’m not holding my breath.
i don’t watch a lot of lore but would like to get into it a lot more for all the fromsoft games, if vaati is pretty surface level who would you recommend to watch?
https://youtu.be/o19SDq69coQ?si=ZEItvonUgCMHkRW_
Jack is a Mimic is my personal favorite. He has a really good grasp on all of GRRM’s and Miyazaki’s work and uses that knowledge to piece together not just Elden Ring’s lore, but its story. He doesn’t just throw a bunch of esoteric slop at you, but presents Elden Ring’s mythos as the complex character drama that GRRM is known for producing.
“The mythology Mr. Martin wrote for us was incredibly compelling - mysterious, layered, and filled with dramatic characters whose stories were built upon tangled bloodlines and complex relationships. It functions as mythology, but also as history, and even as epic poetry.” - Miyazaki
One of the things that Jack frequently brings up, is a quote from GRRM saying that the only thing worth writing about is the human heart in conflict with itself. This is at the heart of all of Jack’s theorizing and makes him my go to for lore and story.
But if you want some of the craziest theorizing you’ve ever heard then also check out Scum Mage Infa. He’s fun too.
Quelaag, Tarnished Archeologist, Smough Town and Hawkshaw. Those are just the ones off the top of my head but there’s loads of lore youtubers that all exist on a unique place on the surface level to deep spectrum
You know ball
I personally like FatBrett and Hawkshaw for Elden Ring. The Snack Covenant is a good podcast with decent analysis, but they’re also big goofs who like to go on wild tangents.
Honey Bat’s Bloodborne video is a pretty definitive analysis of that game (“Viscerally Feminine” is in the title).
Honestly, I’d look for channels that do more general fiction analysis rather than specific to a game or series, they tend to be a little more well rounded.
people are just going to buy this to support him because parasocial relationship bullshit and never open it more than once. this is a perfect cash grab for a dude whos run out of ideas because there's no new souls game to parasite off of.
I dont even hate him as an individual, i just hate how ppl glaze about him, like you said
Explaining lore isn't something I would describe as being a parasite especially for games that let me see....AHH yes famously obtuse and intentionally fragmented on the lore front.
I don't even know that guy but that is some next level hate I see.
What is he gonna write about? There are 2 actual characters in the game and rest of them laugh evilly and fuck off somewhere and go insane
Making money out of someone else's IP + the work of the people who actually read the lore for him LMAO
There are people like Lokey and Redgrave actually doing this shit for fun and 1000 times better than anything to come out of Vaati's pie hole
I mean, Lokey published a Dark Souls book (which was two volumes for only DS1 lore) with the same publishers.
“Alright Vaati discord, im gonna need you guys to compile all your ideas so I can copy paste them into this word doc and publish it! Thanks for donating to the Patreon!”
is that even legal? It’s not his work.
I for one can’t wait for the copyright slap they get
Is this guy still taking "his" theories from 4chan and reddit?
I can only judge by his Armored core 6 video, which isn`t exactly new, but yes.
Why do yall hate vaati so much?
me personally, because this is the exact OPPOSITE of what gaming should be about.
much of the discourse, content and thus investment and attention has been hijacked by people that don't care about making good games with a good story you can actually ", press a button and enjoy "
just grifters, hypers, simpers whose (negative) contribution would be the exact same even if elden ring was a point and click adventure with 40 hours of unskippanle cinematics
What does this comment mean? So someone studies a video game and then shares their found knowledge with the world as something you can choose to buy or not and thats bad? I don't understand.
Omg 400 pages of things verbatim said to the player in cutscenes and item descriptions and ideas stolen from other lore theorists without credit 😍 just take my money
Amazing, bro get all his theories on reddit, presented them in 20 hours cinema-like-slop videos and now he is going to monetize it AGAIN in the form of the book. This community is trurly braindead
Be fair. He started by getting his theories from 4chan first.
I just love the fact that no matter the game, all of the theories he present in the videos are proven wrong by each of the expansions and/or sequels.
For his Armored core 6 theory's you don`t even have to wait for a sequel or expansion, you just have to look at the game itself and have basic media literacy.
“20 hours” and the longest they’ve been is one
You forgot the part where he presents in such a disordered manner that the theories become incomprehensible, but sound meaningful to the unintelligent
That just what the game lore is so he did a good job
Eldeb rings actual lore is like 5 sentences long at best. This shit is entirely made up, vaati literally just wrote his own, completely original fantasy book. Bro could have been the next Tolkien if he didn't base his channel around slop.
Thank god this is a shitposting subreddit and I know you’re all just being ironic.
They’re not. There’s been criticisms towards Vaati for almost a decade by ‘veteran’ lore fans. Some of it is justified like him stealing from other creators, and some of it is just ‘guy popular therefore bad’
Is the stealing thing actually proven tho, i can easily believe it but all i remember is that one video where the guy Photoshopped vaatis profile pic sucking dick and preemptively calling everyone that might disagree a child/fanboy or something
I don't even know if vaati ever made a statement or response
afaik the thing people refer to happened years ago and ever since he's been both crediting and openly collaborating with other creators
The main case I know about is with Redgrave, in which case Vaati’s writing was essentially one to one in multiple cases. It honestly just felt like laziness more than anything else, but it’s understandable Redgrave was upset considering how much work he put into the paleblood hunt. The two had a civil discussion about it and sorted it all out from what I understand.
From what I gathered watching Vaati’s Bloodborne content, it’s clear he just didn’t care about the game at all. So laziness on his part seems pretty fair.
Smoughtown has already done this and it’s honestly good. Obviously a lot of it is interpretation but I agree with him on a lot of what he says.
Crazy how long it took to see a comment about Smough's book, but I guess it's hard to come by literate fans here
I can't wait to not read this
Be funny if he'd ever list sources, and most of that will be comments from Reddit users.
Actually really excited for this, wanna put it next to the paleblood hunt, if only they sold it worldwide :(
So a 400 page headcanon then ?? There’s no truly definitive lore , if it’s not directly from fromsoft it’s literally headcanon.
I really wish I had thought of making money off of the product of someone else's hard work and parroting discussions about it had by other people to my semi obsessive follower base. It seems like a really comfy job
gun to my head, to this day I still can't tell you what exactly the "elden ring" is... A great rune?? idk man..
It’s what Marika gave to herself when she asked her to marry herself.
Damn, idk what vaati did to deserve all that hate but it cannot be warranted.
390 pages of theory crafting and 10 pages of item descriptions
Vaati is cool and will always be part of the souls experience. You guys ain’t talking about how Giant Dads creator, OnlyAfro is being deported. That’s pretty shitty.