Indie just means independent. They didn't make the game for anyone. Like how Netherealm studios makes Mortal Kombat for Warnerbrothers. E33 didn't make it for a parent company. They made it for their own studio.
I feel like the definition of indie is kind of nonsense though because Devolver Digital itself is considered an “indie game publisher” and I’ve never seen someone argue that their games are not indie games. We are at a point where it doesn’t make sense anymore to classify games by their publisher status rather than their budget.
The definition for indie makes no sense in the modern scape. It should be changed to just mean small scale/low budget. Because technically speaking Baldur's Gate 3 is an indie game, being both developed and published by Larian Studios.
So, you mean independent creative vision? Wouldn’t Death Stranding 2 fit that bill, too? Is that really an indie game, because Kojima does whatever he wants? It IS an indie studio, but most agree that his studio and the likes of Larian don’t fit the category cause they’re just too big, and I tend to agree.
And it’s highly debatable if a studio has “independent creative vision” anyways, not something we can even know for sure. No one knows how much of E33’s design was influenced by investors, maybe it wasn’t at all, but you don’t know unless you were in those meeting rooms yourself…
You’re putting some solo dude in his basement against massive multimillion dollar efforts of hundreds in the “indie“ category, respectfully, I just don’t see it.
You're associating the word "indie" with characteristics like small budget/size or creative vision that frequently overlap with it, but ultimately aren't included in the actual definition of the word.
I'm not putting anything against anyone. I'm saying E33 is technically indie, which it is, because the studio was made as such (which is what I meant by "created" btw)
This is what a lot of salt mines are failing to understand - that the term “indie” can apply to your basement dwelling bros who pump out crystal or a studio the size of Sandfall equally.
Fair enough. I’m still not exactly convinced not being owned by a company and instead at the whims of angel investors makes you that much freer, but, oh well, Sandfall is a private company after all, I can’t really speak on that what actually happened…
Silksong doesn't have near that amount of contractors, there were a few who helped with programming and art, and the sound and VAs(quite a few of which had other roles or were family members) and then localization
And a specific budget for silksong would be hard to pin down as for most of development all that would've been spent would be living expenses for like 5 people
True, but I don’t think pitting Baldur’s Gate 3 type games against something like Balatro on the “indie” scale makes much sense either… if they’re going to keep these awards though they should be consistent, cause Bg3 counted, and so did death stranding 2, and they both weren’t nominated because of scale and budget
True but how is that different from Kepler publishing E33? Kepler is smaller? Do we assume that they fiddled with the development less than Sony did? Or because they didn’t actually request the game be made at all, but I doubt that the case for DS2 (hehe) either. I’m genuinely asking here, what’s “independently published” even mean at this point
I think the “indie” qualification is just too vague at this point to satisfy everyone. A lot of people in the replies have made good points as to why it actually IS indie and at this point idrk how we should even draw the line unless there’s a second category for low budget games
Sure, but the definition has changed in context from most gamers’ point of view. Hell, Dave the diver was seen as indie cause it was… 2D I guess? That’s what I mean by vague, not actually vague, but the definition online is very inconsistent
It’s this. The guy thought i want to make an final frenchtasy … and then when out to ask devs, publishers, banks, France itself to lend him money for his dream. He chose the partners, whom to ask for money and workpower and trailers and made contracts on his own decision but apparently always had the last say on what to include in the game and when it’s ready to release. That’s my definition on independence.
NOT independent games start like this: there sits an ceo somewhere in an office and decided he needs more money. He asks his slaves what is the coolest shit right now that makes the most money. These Tell em it’s Fortnite and this CEO (of an publisher) decides to contact a game dev studio with the offer to make a shitty Fortnite clone. Everybody on this dev studio sighs but well they need the money so they accept the offer and make a soulless sloppy game just trying to convince the CEO it’s actually good who doesn’t know better because he never played a game in his life. The dev studio gets its money and releases bullshit, the ceo gets some money in the fist two weeks after release and then fires some of his employee because he wasn’t happy that he only made 2 million dollars profits after 4 years of development. Still can’t buy a new super yacht !
So … I think expedition 33 is rather in the first story I guess.
They are technically an independent game studio, but they call themselves a AA game studio. When people think of indie they don't think about the company being independent, but rather by size on a scale from AAA, AA, and indie
Ikr it's a good game but it is just a spinoff. You just fuck around and forget about it. Also op says their friend thought the game would win at least 2 awards but it was nominated for only one so?!?!?!
I also wish Silksong won best art direction as well. The art style in Hollow knight is the best most unique thing I've seen in any game ever and only a handful of games like Cuphead can match its quality.
Nightreign was a "here, damn" to make the multiplayer people shut up. it seems like Fromsoft was genuinely surprised when it sold at all- it's not an award game
The community support one was a shoe in for no man's sky, they deserved it 16 times over. Multiplayer though, should've been NR but arc raiders is the new hotness right now
Awards suck anyway it's all developers and their families and now all the actors talking about they are proud of the team and something or blah blah blah.
I'm pretty sure there was literally no overlap in nominations between Nightreign and E33 lmao.
Nightreign is good but not award-winning good
Also Skong should have been best indie idc
An opinion we agree on
By no metrics is E33 an indie game, no idea why it was nominated.
By definition, it IS indie. It's just not as small a scale as other indies.
So… how is it indie?
Indie just means independent. They didn't make the game for anyone. Like how Netherealm studios makes Mortal Kombat for Warnerbrothers. E33 didn't make it for a parent company. They made it for their own studio.
But this definition also doesn’t make much sense to me because there are plenty of indie games that have a publisher (i.e. all Devolver Digital games)
Exactly. Those arent technically indie. They're just small team/budget games.
I feel like the definition of indie is kind of nonsense though because Devolver Digital itself is considered an “indie game publisher” and I’ve never seen someone argue that their games are not indie games. We are at a point where it doesn’t make sense anymore to classify games by their publisher status rather than their budget.
Same thing with New Blood Interactive, no?
The definition is just stupid, we should use either budget or numbers of people working on a game
but we have a term for that. it's small budget. Indie just means a different thing.
The definition for indie makes no sense in the modern scape. It should be changed to just mean small scale/low budget. Because technically speaking Baldur's Gate 3 is an indie game, being both developed and published by Larian Studios.
It wasn't independently published, which is what Indie means. Its, by definition, not an indie game.
By this definition Cyberpunk 2077 is a indie game but hey, it isn't.
So most famous indie game aren't indie cause they have a publisher? Like for example Terraria?
Indie definition is not just being independent, is about the studio size, the budget etc...
Because indie is mostly about whether or not the studio was independant in its creation. It's not about scale or budget.
So, you mean independent creative vision? Wouldn’t Death Stranding 2 fit that bill, too? Is that really an indie game, because Kojima does whatever he wants? It IS an indie studio, but most agree that his studio and the likes of Larian don’t fit the category cause they’re just too big, and I tend to agree.
And it’s highly debatable if a studio has “independent creative vision” anyways, not something we can even know for sure. No one knows how much of E33’s design was influenced by investors, maybe it wasn’t at all, but you don’t know unless you were in those meeting rooms yourself…
You’re putting some solo dude in his basement against massive multimillion dollar efforts of hundreds in the “indie“ category, respectfully, I just don’t see it.
You're associating the word "indie" with characteristics like small budget/size or creative vision that frequently overlap with it, but ultimately aren't included in the actual definition of the word.
I'm not putting anything against anyone. I'm saying E33 is technically indie, which it is, because the studio was made as such (which is what I meant by "created" btw)
This is what a lot of salt mines are failing to understand - that the term “indie” can apply to your basement dwelling bros who pump out crystal or a studio the size of Sandfall equally.
Fair enough. I’m still not exactly convinced not being owned by a company and instead at the whims of angel investors makes you that much freer, but, oh well, Sandfall is a private company after all, I can’t really speak on that what actually happened…
Silksong had both millions in budget and hundreds of contractors.
Silksong doesn't have near that amount of contractors, there were a few who helped with programming and art, and the sound and VAs(quite a few of which had other roles or were family members) and then localization
And a specific budget for silksong would be hard to pin down as for most of development all that would've been spent would be living expenses for like 5 people
And E33 had a whole orchestra as 'contractors', so?
It wasn't exactly a full orchestra, but Christopher Larkin did have the Silksong OST live recorded, unlike its predecessor.
I never said it was anymore indie. At least it didn’t 30 full time devs, a publisher or fucking Charlie Cox
Well, then I agree. Sad to see zero real indies among the nominees.
Budget size isn't relevant to whether or not a game is indie. It just means independently published
True, but I don’t think pitting Baldur’s Gate 3 type games against something like Balatro on the “indie” scale makes much sense either… if they’re going to keep these awards though they should be consistent, cause Bg3 counted, and so did death stranding 2, and they both weren’t nominated because of scale and budget
Death stranding 2 wasn't independently published though. Developed by kojima productions, published by Sony
True but how is that different from Kepler publishing E33? Kepler is smaller? Do we assume that they fiddled with the development less than Sony did? Or because they didn’t actually request the game be made at all, but I doubt that the case for DS2 (hehe) either. I’m genuinely asking here, what’s “independently published” even mean at this point
You’re right in pointing out every single one of those things… but they’re still indie, definitionally.
I’m all for a low budget, small dev award category too
I think the “indie” qualification is just too vague at this point to satisfy everyone. A lot of people in the replies have made good points as to why it actually IS indie and at this point idrk how we should even draw the line unless there’s a second category for low budget games
It’s not vague, it means independent, it’s just a shortening of the word.
I get the colloquial definition changing for people but the industry definition has remained the same, I believe.
And yes, I think there should be a category for games with small development teams or below a certain budget threshold.
Sure, but the definition has changed in context from most gamers’ point of view. Hell, Dave the diver was seen as indie cause it was… 2D I guess? That’s what I mean by vague, not actually vague, but the definition online is very inconsistent
That’s what I meant by colloquial definition, apologies if I wasn’t clear.
Ahhh, I’m going to make the excuse that English isn’t my first language, my bad
Well they aren't under EA or Activision so that's that...
But yeah, kinda unfair compared to the rest of the industry.
Still there are those games that overshadow most others in their year (like how Baldurs Gate 3 got so many awards, and LoZ TotK got 1 (for music?))
Tho Game Awards can be bought so I don't really care anymore
It’s this. The guy thought i want to make an final frenchtasy … and then when out to ask devs, publishers, banks, France itself to lend him money for his dream. He chose the partners, whom to ask for money and workpower and trailers and made contracts on his own decision but apparently always had the last say on what to include in the game and when it’s ready to release. That’s my definition on independence.
NOT independent games start like this: there sits an ceo somewhere in an office and decided he needs more money. He asks his slaves what is the coolest shit right now that makes the most money. These Tell em it’s Fortnite and this CEO (of an publisher) decides to contact a game dev studio with the offer to make a shitty Fortnite clone. Everybody on this dev studio sighs but well they need the money so they accept the offer and make a soulless sloppy game just trying to convince the CEO it’s actually good who doesn’t know better because he never played a game in his life. The dev studio gets its money and releases bullshit, the ceo gets some money in the fist two weeks after release and then fires some of his employee because he wasn’t happy that he only made 2 million dollars profits after 4 years of development. Still can’t buy a new super yacht !
So … I think expedition 33 is rather in the first story I guess.
Indie doesn’t mean small lol. It means they’re their own company and are not from a bigger one like CoD by Blizzard Activision etc.
It means independent, as in they don't have an outside publisher, which E33 did.
They are technically an independent game studio, but they call themselves a AA game studio. When people think of indie they don't think about the company being independent, but rather by size on a scale from AAA, AA, and indie
Its literally not, by any means.
Dev team on par of AA studios (30 people) and many more credited (about 300 with all the outsourced work)
Budget around $20 million.
It literally has an outside publisher.
Did silksong win anything?
Best action adventure game
Also best art direction imo
nightreign is bad fromslop, shouldn't even be discussed as part of any award winning games in this year.
Skong only winning one award says a lot. The game was rigged from the start.
Ikr it's a good game but it is just a spinoff. You just fuck around and forget about it. Also op says their friend thought the game would win at least 2 awards but it was nominated for only one so?!?!?!
I also wish Silksong won best art direction as well. The art style in Hollow knight is the best most unique thing I've seen in any game ever and only a handful of games like Cuphead can match its quality.
Nightreign was a "here, damn" to make the multiplayer people shut up. it seems like Fromsoft was genuinely surprised when it sold at all- it's not an award game
Which awards would those be
fromslop awards
Mid award
most dlc award
What does Nightreign even deserve an award for? Most assets reused?
Sorry RGG wins that hands down
Elden Ring and SotE got some awards, and Nightreign is better than those.
If anyone was curious he thought it was gonna get best multiplayer award and community support
Community support is insane. Half the game effects still aren't translated correctly
They are now
Idk exactly what “community support” means for the award but I guessed BG3 cause their modding community is wild and will probably last forever
The community support one was a shoe in for no man's sky, they deserved it 16 times over. Multiplayer though, should've been NR but arc raiders is the new hotness right now
lol multiplayer without text chat and voice chat, with p2p connections, yep best multiplayer game this year
Fromsoft's archaic netcode does not deserve a multiplayer award.
Cuckreign so ass its outclassed by E33 without being in the same category
truth nuke
Theres no way that there was a single person out there who genuinely thought nightreign had a chance to win any awards
Nightrein is literally 90% reused content
Your friend isn't one of those who likes to think, huh?
And they had the gaul to announce slop of the fallen on the same day
GOTY for a visibly half finished game
Awards suck anyway it's all developers and their families and now all the actors talking about they are proud of the team and something or blah blah blah.
nightreign is truly the sloppiest
The fuck was nightreign gonna win
Nightreign wasn't gonna win anything but e33 genuinely got rigged bruh
Only rigged award was E33 NOT winning the community vote against Chinese gacha slop haha
True, bitch ass gacha slop winning because they bribe their communities
lowkuinely skill issue
Good, I wouldn't want multiplayer slop getting anything. It shouldn't even have sold as much as it did, shame on you for buying this shit
E33 has mid gameplay, and that is what actually matters in video games.
Actual dogshit take
Will you argue that gameplay is not the weakest part of the whole game?
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https://preview.redd.it/jvb8bds4dp6g1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=13e56a2a9cdbe85fd87ab71976264a6ed02933a6
What could have possibly been the original comment bruh😭
Shaw!