I've been going down a rabbit hole here watching youtube videos and looking through this reddit trying to figure out how to sharpen my kitchen knives. I'm currently using Victorinox/Mercer knives but do plan on getting some eastern knives in the future. I'm not looking for anything crazy with polished edges and perfect hair splitting sharpness, just want a simple (ideally budget friendly) system that is quality, will last, comfortable, and does the job well for my current knives and any new knives in the future!
Based on what I've read, I've decided to go the freehand route and I'm willing to put the effort in to learn. My dilemna now is which stone to begin with, primarily diamond vs whetstone and which stones for each route.
On one hand, many recommend the Sharpal 325/1200 + strop (and maybe Shapton 2000 down the line) while others swear by the Shapton Pro 1000. I'd appreciate any advice for my situation and recommendations on a progression/set of stones to invest in!
That Sharpal combo diamond plate is a great starting point for the knives you currently have.
I am ALL over this post. I've got you covered for 53 bucks for two stones with recommendations if you're in the US.
First stone to learn - Norton Crystolon JB8 $33
Second stone to refine and touch up your Victorinox/Mercer - boron carbide 800 (8 inch) $20 here https://www.amazon.com/Sharpening-Rubber-Professional-Carbide-Whetstone/dp/B0BNBL9YMP
Use the JB8 with a drop of soap and water for convenience. It does not require oil. It's actually all you ever really need and while it's rated at 120/320 (some sources say 280) grit it will get your knives shaving and paper push cutting sharp once you learn it, but with a truly toothy edge that holds up a long time in the kitchen or EDC roles. It's slow wearing and yet makes some slurry, I can't say enough good things about it. It can do everything and works well with high pressure to remove steel fast to thin or repair. Doesn't scratch as deep as diamond plate, gives a nice cloudy even finish if you mix the stroke direction.
The boron carbide 800 is phenomenal on that Victorinox type of mid range steel, someone observed it "pushes the steel around like crayon wax." gives fantastic feedback, makes deburring easy, hard and will probably never wear out or dish, just takes a splash of water. You can probably touch a Vic up on this indefinitely, it's that good. (you could also do this on the JB8 but the B4C/Vic is a match made in heaven)
So my advice is get the JB8 and get on the way to mastery with it, then treat yourself to a B4C stone which you'll really enjoy.
From there you can consider expanding into some higher grit splash and go and/or soaker stones, and stropping with compound, as you also begin exploring higher end knives. Everything positive people say about those higher end stones is generally true from a performance and appreciation standpoint, however, don't be fooled into thinking you NEED them, and adding too many options and variables early is more likely to slow down your development.
The JB8 is still great for those Japanese knives btw and can still fill an important niche (or even be the one and done) so you don't immediately need to expand in case you want to get more knives before you get more stones.
If we can stretch the one stone budget a bit, a decent sink bridge or stone holder, whether DIY or bought, considerably enhances the sharpening experience for ergonomic reasons. Something like some foam rubber drawer liner on top and bottom of a piece of 2x4 can work fine at least temporarily.
The case for diamond plates: don't need flattening, they work, they apex easily, they cut aggressively, they cut "supersteels" better/faster
The case against diamond plates: they wear at a continuous rate and the grit size gets smaller (as opposed to stones that wear and expose new fresh grit), they don't generally allow increasing pressure to an extreme degree for faster thinning or risk damage, difficulty and importance of flattening whetstones is often overstated (yes you need to do it sometimes, no it's not hard or expensive or needed frequently for most stones), they do not behave true to grit nor function as expected with regard to grit progression (see: https://scienceofsharp.com/2015/03/01/the-diamond-plate-progression/), the kind of aggressive they are isn't helpful for your knives (they do work, but there is no evidence/reason to think they work better for most steels) AND the necessity of diamond for low grit supersteel sharpening is overstated (for higher grits this is more likely to be true and you can compare pros and cons of plates vs bonded, sintered, vitrified etc)
Thanks for this detailed response! Sounds like whetstone is the overall way to go for me, diamond sounded too good to be true so I appreciate the summary you added!
Even with whetstones, you just added two more stones I never heard about! Based off the comments so far, seems like a coarser grit is better for a first stone. Just wondering if you have any experience with the Naniwa Chosera Pro 400 vs. the JB8? The Chosera seems like a more popular one on here so just wanted to get your thoughts, thanks!
Awesome!
I have not tried the Naniwa Pro 400 but I am pretty sure the entire lineup is a bit finer than their rating so it may be more like a 500-600. That's fine, it's just a bit of a different stone niche. You can totally get it instead of the JB8 but it won't quite do everything the JB8 will do at least not as well.
Naniwa Pro is supposed to be a great line and I am sure you can't go wrong. But the two main reasons I recommended what I did is because a) a gnarly low grit stone will never be obsolete in a collection, even if you eventually only use it for repairs and friends' knives and b) the challenge of getting paper push cutting and easy hair shaving edges off that particular stone (shape, apex, deburr, refine) is a REALLY good benchmark that shows you're ready to appreciate other stones. On point B I don't know of another equally good way to gauge your skill progression.
All that said, don't stress either way but I think if you spend the 33 bucks instead of about double for the Pro you will find you instead benefit from your next nice stone being something like a Pro in the 800-1k range that works well for your future Japanese knives as a direct progression from the JB8. Depending on your preferences your next high end stone after that, if any, may be the 400/600 or may be more like a 2k or 3k, hard to plan that in advance until you explore more.
Edited to add: the JB8 is SiC as opposed to another abrasive like AlOx so you can look into some benefits of having that available. There is a general consensus it is more versatile than some other abrasives and can better handle certain modern steels.
Damn, you are persuasive haha, I’ll go with the JB8 then and gotta figure out a holder for it! Thanks again for all the advice and information!
Well hopefully I'm correct and you will join me in spreading the gospel of the JB8 soon! Feel free to DM or tag if I can help.
Diamond plates are still amazing and have their place, people often talk about them rusting and i guess in a way saying they need more maintanence(?) but personally ive never had any issues with that. Just some barkeepers friend spray and a bristle brush to clean them maybe once or twice a month and they shine like new. Only time ive ever seen rust on mine is from doing a chip repair on a very high carbon knife and be working for so long that the metal particulates start to rust from the water lol. Ofcourse they dont feel quite as good as say a shapton stone and theyre no good for very high grits(anything past 1500 really) but theyre life savers when youre working with very hard steel. I dont use my DMT plates often but theyre amazing when i do and have a special place in my heart since theyre the first quality stones ive ever had. In conclusion though, whetstones are definitely the way to go in most scenarious but diamond plates have their purpose and do a damn good job at it. Rusting is never going to be an issue or something to worry about with them if you just simply take care of them as normal. A simple wipe down with a rag or paper towel after use and store in a dry place(as you would any stone)
Diamond plates off of AliExpress.
They're cheap, they cut really well, and they are a lot less fuss than water stones.
I'll be back to leave a link to a base for the things that I designed.
Edit - https://www.reddit.com/r/sharpening/s/9xy6e5syE4
Having gifted, owned and freehand sharpened both Vic and Mercer, IMO there isn't a lot to be gained on that steel above 800, particularly as a beginner. With practice, you will get to tomato sharp @ 800.
After some shit no-name stones, I bought a King 1K and then a 6K, but still wasn't that good. Technique, not the stones, I love them. Then I got Naniwa 400 & 800. That (and continuing practice and a sink bridge/strop) upped my game and finally started getting good results. Now I mostly sharpen harder steels and run up through 1,3,6K on Jp knives, but still take western steel to 800 and get once in a while 1K. I think the western just needs a bit more tooth to cut well.
I don't have any experience with Shapton, but they get good reviews. My recommendation would be Naniwa Advance aka Standard for quality and affordability, particularly if you go with the S1 (thinner) stones. I have the 220, 400, 800 Advance S2. If your budget allows, the Chosera (Pro) is their top of the line, and I recently picked up a 3K. See SharpeningSupplies.com & buy with confidence.
Thanks for the reply! I'm heavily considering picking up a Chosera now. Would you recommend the 400 or 800? My knives are still in pretty good condition as I've only had them for a couple months now so I'm unsure if I need 400 and should just start with 800?
If your budget allows Chosera (Pro) then definitely go that way. Common wisdom seems to be Pro for the 1-2K and below, Advance for 5K+.
If your knives are pretty sharp, 800 wil definitely dress them back to great. Generally that is where I start with all my knives. For friends who have let their knives go, I start with 400.
That said, the higher the grit, the longer you need to have a precise edge angle, which is the challenge early on. Look at the Sharpening Supplies progressions.For a two stone I think they suggest a 220 and 2K. I probably have too many stones sub 1K.
If you are only going to buy 1, I think 400 might be the one. Note that the Naniws stones typically test higher grit than they are marked. My 800 leaves a shinier finish than the 1K King. But I use the King for my kasumi finishes.
Thanks for this detailed reply again! I’ll take a look at that progression!
With softer steels the burr tends to be tougher to remove. It can be a bit more frustrating to learn on western knives. For that reason I'd suggest 3 stones, a strop, & a loupe. Coarse (~320 grit), medium (~1000 grit), fine (~4000-6000 grit). The fine stone at first is more for deburring. Later, you might choose to go for more polished bevels or ignore it if unneeded. The coarse is easier to start with and learn on. It gets faster results and so is more likely to minimize frustration while learning. After you have sharp knives you may choose to do touch ups on the medium grit.
So as you're learning you'll get your burr on each side with the coarse. Deburr on the stone. Repeat on the medium & deburr. Then deburr on the fine stone. Then strop. That should get you good results in times that aren't too frustrating. Use re-applied sharpie & loupe to check you are grinding correct angle. Use flashlight to check you are apexing. Apexing & deburring is really all you're doing. But because everything is so tiny its hard to get feedback when you're off track, on track, not done, done. If apex passes flashlight test expect to spend more time then you'd expect deburring.
Good luck!
Norton 1k/8k
Atoma 400/1200
King 800/4k
Norton Crystalon or India Stone (oil)
Chosera 400, cheap diamond plate for flattening and a strop. This should be sufficient to get your western steel razor sharp.
Build your fundamentals and add a second finer stone between 1000 and 2000. A high grit stone is more valuable on a Japanese knife with finer metal structure.
Sharpal 220/600 diamond stone and a strop. No frills with all the utility you need to expand on. Works great for leveling other stones too as you acquire more over time.
dont get sharpal, its garbage and terrible recommendation, people are just clueless.
Get yourself something in range of 1000 grit from Shapton pro/Rockstar or Naniwa Pro/Chosera.
Can you please easy my cluelessness and tell me why I’m wrong in liking the Sharpal with which I am able to make any knife screaming sharp in short order? The Sharpal that show little to no wear after more sharpening sessions than I can remember.
I think it's overrated and I would maybe buy something else for OP's "Eastern" knives OP doesn't actually have right now. But for learning to sharpen as a beginner, it's just fine.
Diamond plate stones are very specific tool that should never be recommended to be beginner under any circumstances, especially for regular edge sharpening.