I’ve been getting more into sharpening, so when I visited my parents, I had to deal with those dull as knives. I didn’t remember to bring my stone, so I asked if my dad had one. He proceeds to pull out this Norton oil stone. Apparently he was gifted this thing when he first got into the tool and did trade in the 70s, by an experienced tool maker, who’d had it for at least a decade before that. After a bit of cleanup with an eraser, this thing was a dream to sharpen on, and for how old it is and having had actual use, seems to have worn very little. I’ve got a handful of stones, the one I’ve used most is a Shapton pro, but I enjoyed using this Norton more. I don’t see Norton’s talked up much here, are the new ones still good?
This will last a lifetime and many more. No need to buy a new one. The newer ones are of lesser quality but still very good for the money.
I wear through my small India stones at a reasonable pace.
What has your experience been? Why do you say it'll last a lifetime?
just curious of other people's usage
Are these vintage or not? Do you use oil or not? Vintage ones last the best but only if you use them with enough oil. I use mine for chisels, scandi grind knifes, axes, many things really and it is so though that my issue is not that the stone isn't flat anymore but that it polishes over time and stops biting. I usually use an old file to solve this.
Well, they were and still are used by woodworkers for a lot of time now, they were supposed to be a better solution to washitas when they were made. The best vintage ones are from 50-60-70s or if you can find earlier. Mine is form 50s. Plenty of woodworkers that use them daily and leave them to their kids. The new ones, sadly, wear a lot faster but still decent for the money. Also, the Crystalon series wear out faster but also keep their biting over time as they are just a tiny bit softer.
I did read your other comment as well and I think you might have a new india that you didn't use enough. Norton Indias, especially the old ones, are very agressive at first but polish over time. The fine side can get so polished that they barely cut. Mine is well seasoned and it leaves a mirror polish finish just from the stone without a strop.
With Norton Indias they also are used different than a water stone. Apart from the dressing of the stone you also use different pressure and even different tehniques when woodworking. For example, I don't bother to keep mine flat as these stones were not meant to use with a back and forth motion anyway. It is hard to cover the right tehnique over reddit but if you find an old woodworker ask him about india stones and if he can teach you how to use them. You might be amazed in the end.
I'd love to see your technique, I grind a lot of stuff back and forth on these stones, I'd like to know the alternative.
I dull out old files intentionally in my work as a machinist, I never considered that doing so could be unglazing my stone.
It is a hard thing to express on reddit but I do have few tips for you.
Here are few articles as well from the legendary Paul Sellers to start with:
https://paulsellers.com/2014/12/sharpening-stones-watch-out-for-the-bumps/
https://paulsellers.com/2013/11/sharpness-mean-real-terms/
Regarding technique, I find these stones are meant to be adapted to your needs rather than used rigidly with rules like water stones have.
For example, using less oil allows the stone to cut faster, but it will also clog more quickly. Pressure also plays a role in how the stone behaves: applying more pressure makes the surface act coarser by encouraging the stone to release more abrasive, while lighter, more regular pressure results in a finer surface. My India stone, on the finer side, feels closer to a 2000-grit water stone, if we’re making that comparison.
One very important point is that these stones are extremely hard. A fast back-and-forth motion tends to polish the surface, preventing fresh abrasive from being released and causing the stone to clog with metal swarf.
To summarize how I sharpen on these stones:
I use a generous amount of oil but not so much that it floods the surface, as excess oil can also lead to clogging. I rely exclusively on top-to-bottom strokes with a fair amount of pressure, noticeably more than I would use on a water stone. At the end of each stroke, I lift the blade, return it to the top, and repeat. In my experience, these stones respond best to this kind of use, and it aligns with how older woodworkers traditionally used them.
I also sharpen by hanging tools over the edge of the stone - knives, chisels, and plane irons alike. I begin at the top of the stone, with roughly half the blade hanging off either side. For instance, with a plane iron, I place half of the blade on the top-right edge of the stone and move it left, covering the full width, then return before reaching the bottom. Once I reach the bottom, I reset the blade and repeat the process.
This technique works best when the stone is shaped somewhat like a loaf of bread. I don’t use the center of the stone very much; instead, I rely mainly on the edges when using the hanging method. Interestingly, my stone isn’t flat in the conventional sense—it’s actually the opposite of what’s usually considered “out of flat.” The corners are lower than the middle. I’ve found that this geometry cuts steel more effectively, especially when sharpening on the edge. I’ve heard this opinion as well: the actual edge of the stone tends to cut better.
Regarding old files, they work well to resurface and also flatten the stone to a degree. You simply use it on the stone with a back and forth motion as this cuts the stone, is not the other way around so it does not matter much. Doing this with a lot of force(but often check so you don't waste too much material) can resurface the stone and give her back that bitting it once had. You can also use SiC on a glass to flatten and resurface them. They are very hard so I generally don't do it unless I feel is really needed. I also like my stone unflat as said above so I rely on the old file tehnique more as I have some control on the angle of the file.
Be careful as if the file is old and has that black metal swarf on it it will stain and clog the stone. The file needs to be clean. You can also use a very cheap knife with it's spine and do this as well.
Check his video out and other videos regarding the norton indias as well: https://youtu.be/Ew5Pbxh8Sng?si=0CqfqvtZMk79gro6
I guess that's pretty much it. This stone becomes spectacular after you use it for a while and you acustom it to your needs. People here expect that oil stones behave like water stones and usually aren't impress by the india or even consider them bad. These stones, especially if vintage, won't perform from day one and need some time.
Thanks! I'll read up on them
lol. He asked you questions and you gave no answers.
Yes! I realised i know too little to even answer the questions in a constructive manner. So i'll have to learn a bit more
they dont "last a lifetime" unless you dont use them a lot
Sure thing mate. I go with my fellow woodworkers that do use them for lifetimes and still are going strong. You find plenty of examples online as well. I don't get what you guys are doing to these stones given we all sharpen probably more as that is daily and a lot of different tools, not just knifes.
If you read carefully online you'd see that most of these stones are inherited from dads and workers that used them regullary . That's a lifetime there for you
Dude I have no idea about the new one. My grandpa owned a tool and die shop and my dad gave me a Norton stone just like this one. Looks identical to what you have.
I love mine especially for my carbon and harder steel knives. M
Ooooh a Norton post! They were the standard of their day. Even Europe imported american made norton stones.
They've gone out of style, for a few reasons.
Harder to use than waterstones. Especially for beginners who fear scratching up their knives
User experience is worse: the scratchy feedback and scraping sound when sharpening. Definetely not audio ASMR material
SiC (crystolon) will cut any steel but he grit breaks down and may scratch te blade, finish is less consistent.
Alum oxide (India) is more consistent, but will struggle against very hard steels.
However! India stones are almost pure sintered abrasives. They will grind softer steels in a hurry.
When visiting friend or family, a small India stone will sharpen a dull crap knives in 3minutes. 😂 and the edges are coarse and crisp!
Very agressive microserrations, predictable performance for knife noobs
The new ones still perform great, maybe need a little more break-in. I have a much older one inherited from my FinL and the fine side is lighter in color, maybe a little more fine than the current crop. Also have a less old one made in USA and one made in Mexico - there is zero difference between the two more recent stones.
These are great stones if you use oil with em. They can glaze from too much dry use.
That said they are maybe 2-3x more resistant to dishing and work great on carbon and low carbide stainless. They have real nice feedback.
Nice
Hey! What's your experience of the newer coarse India stone?
My old Bear brand, medium India will release fresh abrasives, light pressure passes are possible.
But The newer mexican made coarse/fine (grey/orange) one... The coarse side is super hard, and doesn't cut well. The orange fine side is better.
Any tricks to make the coarse side more usable?.is there a break in period?
Rub it on concrete and then clean and rub a green Scotchbrite and a little oil. Trust the process…
They don't glaze for you used with oil?
No. Mine still have great surface, like they came out of the box.
I have several vintage Nortons, and although not my everyday stone, I still like to pull one out and use it on occasion.
nortons are absolutely great, still use my old medium crystolon from the 70s. the new ones are good still.
I have a Norton
I have Norton india for 7-8 years now and I'm very happy with it. It is still flat after all the usage and it cuts every steel that I throw at it . I use mineral oil laxative with it. Only downside is that you can spill a bit of oil around you when you sharpen , but I do it in my workshop so it's not a problem for me.