If a company won’t tell you or they see it as a bad thing to ask it’s not a company anyone should want to work for.
Jobs are our livelihood. It’s how we support ourselves and our families. It’s how we survive. How much they pay is the single most important question for anyone interviewing.
Talking about compensation should be normalized. Framing it in a way that makes its inevitability something to embrace has helped me deal with hiring managers that avoid talking about it. With “we both know’s” and “I’m sure you’s” you can frame it in a way where they’re unprofessional and immoral if they don’t want to discuss it.
Yup. A job is a business transaction. As much as they love obsessing over "but we're a family not a company!" at the end of the day compensation for labor is business. I'm not looking to get ripped off when I'm selling my time so I need to know what the numbers are. Generally speaking if a company is trying to hide that information I'm assuming there's a reason for it. So far I've always been right on that one; companies that aren't willing to tell you what the range is know that they're offering absolute beans and are going to try to lowball you. A common tactic is to try to get you into sunk cost fallacy territory; well I've gone through this interview process so I don't want to waste that time.
At this point if no salary range is listed or the compensation is listed as "competitive" I don't even send them my resume. Fuck 'em.
Even when pay is posted they can still try to pull off the ambiguity angle, I had one where I started the training and then when I worked my first week and got paid the numbers didint match with the job posting.
One annoying thing I found when job hunting was also when they would list the pay scale for the role and not the actual starting salary range. So if the role is 60k to 90k they'd say that when really they wouldn't start anyone above 70k
I haven't wanted to work for most of my employers. The job market is fucked. There is zero competition among employers, which leaves workers with zero power.
Having the ability to choose your employer, or to walk away from a shitty job or a shitty interview, is a massive luxury in today's job market.
I absolutely love my state’s mandatory disclosure laws for job listings. If you’re listing a position in this state and DON’T have a good-faith legitimate pay range provided? You’re breaking the law.
The employer must post a reasonable pay range, which means using the US DOL wage determination for hourly wage in x or y region for both nonexempt (x 40 hours x 52 weeks) and exempt (x 50 hours x 52 weeks) and must provide a range between the lowest and the highest hourly wags using the nonexempt and exempt equation I provided in order to get a realistic annual pay compensation.
Any company who uses a different criteria in those states risks fines and penalties.
yeah and like what are you gonna do? Sue them? you can't claim damages for them being shady if you don't fall for it. and if you do fall for it, you're paid too little to litigate a case you'll likely lose anyway
They will post a job for $90-$110K and then during the interview, tell you the pay is actually $80K.
My old company interviewed me for a position with a published range of like $85K-115K, meaning I should be able to negotiate my salary BOE and work/salary history. During the interview they told me “nope, it pays $90K” which would’ve been a $10K+ pay cut.
Massachusetts as well, and the range must be realistic and reasonable aka using the lowest and highest hourly rate (nonexempt x 40 hours x 52 week for both low and high end, and x 50 hours per week x 52 in the case of exempt using lpwest and highest hourly rate), as listed in the US DOL Wage Determination for x region.
I love it so much that they require it but wish more states did too. Washington and California are probably the only two out of those I'd want to move to but not Seattle or anywhere near LA.
Not just that. Some dipsht companies will tell you that you can only ask 2 questions during an interview. Even some youtube videos say you are supposed to only ask 1 or 2 questions. It's insane indoctrination from the top down.
Literally never heard this before. Interviews are two way. I have always asked lots of questions..im interviewing them as well to see if I want to work there. When I was a manager it was a red flag if candidates weren't asking lots of questions
A good hiring manager would love lots of questions. But there are definitely hiring managers out there seeking out the most desperate applicants who will take anything, and few questions would help reveal who's desperate
This right here. I want you to ask questions, the more the better. When the only question asked is something like, “what kind of X software do you use” it tells me nothing and gives no room for really discussion.
All of these "rules" are literally market-driven. Its an employers market, simple as that. They can turn you down and hire someone else in no time. Not the case for you and me.
Why do people even bother applying for jobs, let alone going through interviews, without knowing the salary/pay range? I literally will not give a job listing a minute of my time if I don’t already know it pays enough to be worth my time…
Okay, there are no morons ever anywhere more than a single individual in relational proximity to one another anywhere. Glad to know the world just got a whole lot smarter a and I along with it with my ignorance dispelled…
I interviewed for a job and at the end of the interview, I asked about pay and benefits. I was told by the interviewer that I have to be considered for the position before they release that info.
I said, remove my name for consideration. If you can't discuss the pay and benefits now then you are not a company I want to work for. Then I said thank you for wasting my time.
As I walked out in the lobby where other candidates were waiting, I said out loud. "Don't waste your time here!"
That's more considerate then I was. I continued the process (I was unemployed, I had the time) and when they made an offer, I told them it was a too low and casually mentioned that if they'd been more upfront about the salary when I'd asked it would have saved everyone a substantial amount of time/money. I made sure to cc the head of the division hoping it'd create a little heat.
I was up for a contract position once. It probably wasn’t one that easy to fill, but is possible they had 1 or 2 backup candidates with little experience, just in case. Interviewed, got an offer. It was at least $6K too low / below lower market range, so I told them (was pretty odd they hid this info, but I was told before interviewing the pay was “competitive”. The recruiter girl said OK, and never heard from them again. No counter, nothing.
my last few interviews were rapid fire technical questions (8 questions in 20 min, etc) that didn't allow for much time to do anything except take a pop quiz about command syntax, let alone ask them anything.
As we stated in the job specification, our salary package is very competitive but I am afraid I do not have permission to say as we have a range which will not disclose until we further assess your abilities and compare them with the rest of the candidates after we [UNCONTROLLABLE DIARRHEA NOISES]
I was at an interview once for 2.5 hours for a basic customer service job. The two ladies interviewing me asked me the typical interview questions, chit-chatted with me for a long time, showed me around the facility, explained everything they do there, then didn't respond to my thank you email or the follow-up email I sent two weeks later.
My current employer brought it up in the interview, even though it's not great pay. Good employers will just tell you.
You're going to find out before you decide whether to accept the offer or not, so they might as well tell you right away. It's mad that so many employers treat it like a secret.
In some statss, the employer must post a reasonable pay range, which means using the US DOL wage determination for hourly wage in x or y region for both nonexempt (x 40 hours x 52 weeks) and exempt (x 50 hours x 52 weeks) and must provide a range between the lowest and the highest hourly wags using the nonexempt and exempt equation I provided in order to get a realistic annual pay compensation.
Any company who uses a different criteria in those states risks fines and penalties.
I've gotten to the point where if a job has no listed wage and it isn't available on indeed or glassdoor salaries I won't even bother with the application. The wage discrimination I've seen as a woman in male dominated fields doing the exact same job has just not been worth it.
Even in states where there is supposed to be pay transparency, it's a joke sometimes. I've seen the pay range for positions listed as something like between $50,000 - 105,000/yr. That's not really giving a realistic range. I doubt they will pay majority of candidates the highest amount.
New thing I’ve been seeing is when they list a range of say $100k-$140k it’s now referred to as the “budget range” for the role when you have your screening call (not OTE or base range which it usually states)
ie you ask for $120k-$130k which leaves them with “wiggle” room for you and your offer might come in at a $90k base with a $30k bonus for a total comp of $120k 🫠
And it's always something outrageously different like "30k-85k a year depending on experience and skill" brother what.
I just assume that means like 35k for a regular worker with some experience, 85k if you happen to be the manager's niece who just graduated college and needs her first big girl job who will quit within 2 months because she realizes it's too much work.
"UNFORTUNATELY WE HAVE DECIDED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH ANOTHER CANDIDATE WHO IS WILLING TO WORK FOR PEANUTS INSTEAD OF A SALARY VALUING THEM AS A PROFESSIONAL!
ALSO MY CAPS LOCK IS STUCK BUT GOD FORBID I TAKE ANY INITIATIVE! I'LL JUST SEND 14 TICKETS TO I.T. UNTIL IT MAGICALLY FIXES ITSELF!
BEST WISHES,
HIRE BOT #86"
yeah. Unfortunately, "someone who stands up for themselves" isn't a protected class that they can't use as an argument for not hiring you.
Well yeah but why would you want to work for them anyway? There’s still nothing about this that stops one from asking about salary. Usually the salary is in the job listing to begin with. This meme is just bizarre.
If a company won’t tell you or they see it as a bad thing to ask it’s not a company anyone should want to work for.
Jobs are our livelihood. It’s how we support ourselves and our families. It’s how we survive. How much they pay is the single most important question for anyone interviewing.
Talking about compensation should be normalized. Framing it in a way that makes its inevitability something to embrace has helped me deal with hiring managers that avoid talking about it. With “we both know’s” and “I’m sure you’s” you can frame it in a way where they’re unprofessional and immoral if they don’t want to discuss it.
Yup. A job is a business transaction. As much as they love obsessing over "but we're a family not a company!" at the end of the day compensation for labor is business. I'm not looking to get ripped off when I'm selling my time so I need to know what the numbers are. Generally speaking if a company is trying to hide that information I'm assuming there's a reason for it. So far I've always been right on that one; companies that aren't willing to tell you what the range is know that they're offering absolute beans and are going to try to lowball you. A common tactic is to try to get you into sunk cost fallacy territory; well I've gone through this interview process so I don't want to waste that time.
At this point if no salary range is listed or the compensation is listed as "competitive" I don't even send them my resume. Fuck 'em.
I don’t even apply if the pay isn’t posted.
Even when pay is posted they can still try to pull off the ambiguity angle, I had one where I started the training and then when I worked my first week and got paid the numbers didint match with the job posting.
For anyone wondering it’s USA. The land of fucking over it’s people for the rich
If it’s posted it’s like 80k to 230k
One annoying thing I found when job hunting was also when they would list the pay scale for the role and not the actual starting salary range. So if the role is 60k to 90k they'd say that when really they wouldn't start anyone above 70k
I haven't wanted to work for most of my employers. The job market is fucked. There is zero competition among employers, which leaves workers with zero power.
Having the ability to choose your employer, or to walk away from a shitty job or a shitty interview, is a massive luxury in today's job market.
Everyone who is unemployed right now should take this time to read The Grapes of Wrath.
I absolutely love my state’s mandatory disclosure laws for job listings. If you’re listing a position in this state and DON’T have a good-faith legitimate pay range provided? You’re breaking the law.
The employer must post a reasonable pay range, which means using the US DOL wage determination for hourly wage in x or y region for both nonexempt (x 40 hours x 52 weeks) and exempt (x 50 hours x 52 weeks) and must provide a range between the lowest and the highest hourly wags using the nonexempt and exempt equation I provided in order to get a realistic annual pay compensation.
Any company who uses a different criteria in those states risks fines and penalties.
California enacted this law a couple years ago. Most companies don't follow it.
yeah and like what are you gonna do? Sue them? you can't claim damages for them being shady if you don't fall for it. and if you do fall for it, you're paid too little to litigate a case you'll likely lose anyway
Found the company
Exactly
My state has this. Companies still lie.
They will post a job for $90-$110K and then during the interview, tell you the pay is actually $80K.
My old company interviewed me for a position with a published range of like $85K-115K, meaning I should be able to negotiate my salary BOE and work/salary history. During the interview they told me “nope, it pays $90K” which would’ve been a $10K+ pay cut.
You know a company is worth your time if they do happily tell you pay, and benefits!
Your username intrigues me.
It's a curse they inflict on people who ask too many questions.
Return the slab...
In Washington State, Oregon, California, and the City of New York, the salary range must be in the ad.
Colorado too
Massachusetts as well, and the range must be realistic and reasonable aka using the lowest and highest hourly rate (nonexempt x 40 hours x 52 week for both low and high end, and x 50 hours per week x 52 in the case of exempt using lpwest and highest hourly rate), as listed in the US DOL Wage Determination for x region.
I love it so much that they require it but wish more states did too. Washington and California are probably the only two out of those I'd want to move to but not Seattle or anywhere near LA.
Massachusetts sitting here like "What he say fuck me for?"
you know why
Insert Shaq, "I owe you an apology. I wasn't really familiar with your game."
I would also not mind living in Massachusetts.
Taxachusetts
Also in Illinois.
Until they get better about reporting / enforcement, it doesn't mean anything.
I've always gotten a clear salary expectation form companies I interview with. Im not wasting my time if the pay doesnt align with what im looking for
I’ve always asked. I’m not taking a job without knowing the pay, that’s insane.
Or get mad because they want people who are “not in it for the money”
Not just that. Some dipsht companies will tell you that you can only ask 2 questions during an interview. Even some youtube videos say you are supposed to only ask 1 or 2 questions. It's insane indoctrination from the top down.
Literally never heard this before. Interviews are two way. I have always asked lots of questions..im interviewing them as well to see if I want to work there. When I was a manager it was a red flag if candidates weren't asking lots of questions
A good hiring manager would love lots of questions. But there are definitely hiring managers out there seeking out the most desperate applicants who will take anything, and few questions would help reveal who's desperate
This right here. I want you to ask questions, the more the better. When the only question asked is something like, “what kind of X software do you use” it tells me nothing and gives no room for really discussion.
Ask anything and everything!!
All of these "rules" are literally market-driven. Its an employers market, simple as that. They can turn you down and hire someone else in no time. Not the case for you and me.
Why do people even bother applying for jobs, let alone going through interviews, without knowing the salary/pay range? I literally will not give a job listing a minute of my time if I don’t already know it pays enough to be worth my time…
Because they're literal morons.
It's this sort of lunacy being a part of actual reality that gives rise to people memeing about the matrix going wild.
Won’t ever call desperate, uneducated, or otherwise gaslight into thinking this is appropriate groups of people morons.
Okay, there are no morons ever anywhere more than a single individual in relational proximity to one another anywhere. Glad to know the world just got a whole lot smarter a and I along with it with my ignorance dispelled…
They pay is competitive ok??
wild how transparency is unprofessional only one way
I interviewed for a job and at the end of the interview, I asked about pay and benefits. I was told by the interviewer that I have to be considered for the position before they release that info.
I said, remove my name for consideration. If you can't discuss the pay and benefits now then you are not a company I want to work for. Then I said thank you for wasting my time.
As I walked out in the lobby where other candidates were waiting, I said out loud. "Don't waste your time here!"
That's more considerate then I was. I continued the process (I was unemployed, I had the time) and when they made an offer, I told them it was a too low and casually mentioned that if they'd been more upfront about the salary when I'd asked it would have saved everyone a substantial amount of time/money. I made sure to cc the head of the division hoping it'd create a little heat.
Disappointingly, I never got any replies.
I was up for a contract position once. It probably wasn’t one that easy to fill, but is possible they had 1 or 2 backup candidates with little experience, just in case. Interviewed, got an offer. It was at least $6K too low / below lower market range, so I told them (was pretty odd they hid this info, but I was told before interviewing the pay was “competitive”. The recruiter girl said OK, and never heard from them again. No counter, nothing.
first thing I ask about
if they don't have a bracket, I'm not wasting my time
my last few interviews were rapid fire technical questions (8 questions in 20 min, etc) that didn't allow for much time to do anything except take a pop quiz about command syntax, let alone ask them anything.
I have an agent who tells them what they will pay me.
Mileage may vary.
In France, it is now mandatory to put the salary on jobposts ! 🇫🇷
Man, those guillotines are just WAITING for when a motherfucker (company) would try to oppose that...
you can ask?
As we stated in the job specification, our salary package is very competitive but I am afraid I do not have permission to say as we have a range which will not disclose until we further assess your abilities and compare them with the rest of the candidates after we [UNCONTROLLABLE DIARRHEA NOISES]
“great, have a nice day.”
I was at an interview once for 2.5 hours for a basic customer service job. The two ladies interviewing me asked me the typical interview questions, chit-chatted with me for a long time, showed me around the facility, explained everything they do there, then didn't respond to my thank you email or the follow-up email I sent two weeks later.
You are new to interviews, hm?
That happens all the time.
Not at all, but I had never been kept in an interview for that long.
My current employer brought it up in the interview, even though it's not great pay. Good employers will just tell you.
You're going to find out before you decide whether to accept the offer or not, so they might as well tell you right away. It's mad that so many employers treat it like a secret.
They want us to low ball ourselves
In some statss, the employer must post a reasonable pay range, which means using the US DOL wage determination for hourly wage in x or y region for both nonexempt (x 40 hours x 52 weeks) and exempt (x 50 hours x 52 weeks) and must provide a range between the lowest and the highest hourly wags using the nonexempt and exempt equation I provided in order to get a realistic annual pay compensation.
Any company who uses a different criteria in those states risks fines and penalties.
What is the original meme?
They tested my skills. I tested their budget. Test incomplete.
I've gotten to the point where if a job has no listed wage and it isn't available on indeed or glassdoor salaries I won't even bother with the application. The wage discrimination I've seen as a woman in male dominated fields doing the exact same job has just not been worth it.
Even in states where there is supposed to be pay transparency, it's a joke sometimes. I've seen the pay range for positions listed as something like between $50,000 - 105,000/yr. That's not really giving a realistic range. I doubt they will pay majority of candidates the highest amount.
we can't even ask if we are selected for this round? 😭
THIS!!!!!!!!!
If they don’t talk about money in the interview, they never will. They will always play awkward when it comes to anything that benefits you.
New thing I’ve been seeing is when they list a range of say $100k-$140k it’s now referred to as the “budget range” for the role when you have your screening call (not OTE or base range which it usually states)
ie you ask for $120k-$130k which leaves them with “wiggle” room for you and your offer might come in at a $90k base with a $30k bonus for a total comp of $120k 🫠
And it's always something outrageously different like "30k-85k a year depending on experience and skill" brother what.
I just assume that means like 35k for a regular worker with some experience, 85k if you happen to be the manager's niece who just graduated college and needs her first big girl job who will quit within 2 months because she realizes it's too much work.
I’ve never done an interview without knowing the salary range. Idk what you’re talking about.
Yes you can? Where is this where you can’t ask about that? Seems pretty important lol
"UNFORTUNATELY WE HAVE DECIDED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH ANOTHER CANDIDATE WHO IS WILLING TO WORK FOR PEANUTS INSTEAD OF A SALARY VALUING THEM AS A PROFESSIONAL!
ALSO MY CAPS LOCK IS STUCK BUT GOD FORBID I TAKE ANY INITIATIVE! I'LL JUST SEND 14 TICKETS TO I.T. UNTIL IT MAGICALLY FIXES ITSELF!
yeah. Unfortunately, "someone who stands up for themselves" isn't a protected class that they can't use as an argument for not hiring you.
Well yeah but why would you want to work for them anyway? There’s still nothing about this that stops one from asking about salary. Usually the salary is in the job listing to begin with. This meme is just bizarre.
You almost all wanted more capitalism so you got what you asked for.
If you're waiting until the interview before you know what the salary range is, you're contributing to your own waste of time...