Hi r/privacy!
We are activists, technologists, and lawyers at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the leading nonprofit organization defending civil liberties in the digital world. We champion user privacy, free expression, and innovation through impact litigation, policy analysis, grassroots activism, and technology development. We work to ensure that rights and freedoms are enhanced and protected as our use of technology grows.
We’ve seen your posts here on r/privacy. Age verification is coming for our internet, and we’re all worried—what does that actually mean for users? What’s in store for us? Let’s talk about it.
Right now, half the U.S. is already under some form of online age-verification mandate, and Australia’s national law banning anyone under 16 from creating a social media account went into effect on December 10. Governments everywhere are rushing to require ID uploads, biometric scans, behavioral analysis, or digital ID checks before people can speak, learn, or access vibrant, lawful, and sometimes even life-saving content online. These laws threaten our anonymity, privacy, and free speech, force platforms to build sweeping new surveillance infrastructure, and exclude millions of people from the modern public square.
And these systems don’t just target young people—they force everyone to reveal sensitive data and link your real identity to your online life. That chills speech, excludes vulnerable communities, and creates huge new surveillance databases that can be hacked, leaked, or abused.
EFF is building a movement to fight back against online age-gating mandates, and we need your help! We’ve recently published our Age Verification Resource Hub at EFF.org/Age, and we’ll be here in r/privacy from 12-5pm PT on Monday (12/15), Tuesday (12/16), and Wednesday (12/17) to answer your questions about online age verification.
So ask us anything about how age verification works, who it harms, what’s at stake, whether it’s legal, and how to fight back against these invasive censorship and surveillance mandates.
Verification: https://bsky.app/profile/eff.org/post/3m7qa2novlo2x
Edit 1 [Monday 12/15 12pm]: We're here! Glad to see all of this engagement—excited to dig into your questions. Keep em coming! We'll answer till 5pm PT today, then we'll be back to answer more tomorrow.
Edit 2 [Monday 5pm]: We're calling it quits for today, but we'll be back here tomorrow (and Wednesday) at 12pm PT, so keep the questions coming. Thanks everyone!
Edit 3 [Tuesday 12pm]: We're back online for the next 5 hours! Let the games begin.
Edit 4 [Tuesday 5pm]: And we're once again off for the evening. Be sure to get in any last questions before our final session tomorrow, and thanks for joining!
Edit 5 [Wednesday 12pm]: Jumping into the final day of the AMA, let's chat!
Edit 6 [Wednesday 5pm]: Thanks for all of the insightful questions, y'all! We had a great time chatting with you here and we're so glad to have you in this fight with us! And a big round of applause for our r/privacy mods who helped make this all happen.
Two final notes to leave you with:
Please keep an eye on EFF.org/Age and let us know what else would be useful to see, as we're going to keep updating it with more resources to answer even more of your questions in the new year.
We're also hosting a livestream on January 15 at 12pm PT to discuss "The Human Costs of Age Verification" with a few EFFers and a few other friends in this movement. We'd love to see you there! RSVP here: https://www.eff.org/event/effecting-change-human-cost-online-age-verification
Thanks, happy new year, and stay safe out there!
<3 EFF
Thank you for /u/efforg team taking the time to do the AMA here
The AMA is over but we'll leave it sticked for a while longer so people can easily find it.
Love EFF ❤️ Keep up the good fight!
Thanks for the love! And that we shall 🫡 🫡
You're fighting the good fight.
What advice do you have for educating/rallying people who aren't polarized on this issue but generally think that age verification is harmless, or believe that it actually helps protect young people? "Think of the children" is a thought-terminating cliche, but a lot of people seem comfortable having their thoughts terminate there. How can we persuade people to think more critically about invasive measures like this?
Secondly, are there resources or movements that accomplish the goals of protecting minors that we can redirect that interest to instead, to help undermine support for age verification or highlight how counterproductive it is? I think I'm not alone in disliking TikTok or Meta's corrosive impact on the public sphere, but feeling like there are few alternatives to point people too instead - there's seems to be few policy or regulatory actors taking it seriously.
Even folks who aren’t worried about kids online should be worried about what age-verification laws mean for them. These laws push us towards a world where you have to prove your age with a government ID—or a face scan—just to access ordinary websites.
Getting people to think critically can mean asking a simple question: are you comfortable having your identity logged every time you watch or read something online?
Showing ID online is not like flashing it to the bartender. Online, your ID or biometric data is likely to be copied, transmitted, and stored by websites and third-party vendors. Once that data is out there, it can be breached, misused, or repurposed. You lose control over it. People need to understand that these systems will create permanent records of where we all go online.
At scale, age verification becomes a de facto ID check for everyday internet use. It becomes a general-purpose system for tracking access to speech.
Good intentions don’t eliminate risk. Age verification will cause real harms to privacy, security, and free expression that will fall on kids and adults alike.
In terms of re-directing the energy of policymakers—we’ve always said, and still do, that comprehensive privacy regulation is the best way to protect kids and adults online.
Thank you very much!
All of these laws always go back to the "think of the children" cry. What can be done to actually combat this messaging because many are not willing to say anything because of backlash that can happen?
As you identified, the cry to “protect the children” is quite powerful right now—it has broad bipartisan support, it’s something we can all ostensibly agree on (who doesn’t want to keep young people safe?), and it’s even beloved by tech companies. Perhaps most importantly, it’s really tough to be the one lawmaker (or advocacy org, or parent in the pickup line, etc.) who comes out *against* anything that’s called a kids’ online safety measure. It’s a rather smart advocacy move because it puts our backs against the wall as opponents of age verification.
But! There are a few things to know that make it easier to push back on this kind of messaging.
TL;DR: the science underpinning the basic premise that social media is bad for young people is extremely mixed; there is no one-size-fits-all solution to online safety; and any age-verification measure creates massive surveillance and censorship problems for ALL users—not just young people—while ruining our anonymity and defying the most basic and long-standing online safety norms we have.
Thank you so very much for this thoughtful reply! Thank you for all you have done and fighting the good fight.
Incredibly well-put. Thank you so much! I’m saving this comment for future use 🙏
LETS GOOOO THANK YOU.
<3 <3 <3
Is it a lost cause? If crime is coordinated on private channels, government will want to monitor it, and criminals will find loopholes, and government will close them, until no privacy is left.
How can this loop be avoided in a grand perspective?
We definitely sympathize—it can indeed sometimes feel like a lost cause, or at best a game of whack-a-mole. But please don’t give up hope! Take a look at this piece, which always gives me a good pep talk: “Privacy isn’t dead. Far from it.” It can be helpful to remember some of the major privacy wins we’ve won over the years by continuing to push back against censorship and surveillance *together*.
On this issue in particular, we’ve made so many strides against authoritarian age-gating mandates!
First, in legal challenge after legal challenge, U.S. courts have found age-verification laws to be unconstitutional violations of users’ and platforms’ First Amendment rights. Just this week, as we were here answering questions, a federal district court in Louisiana issued a permanent injunction against Louisiana’s age-gating bill—sending yet another clear message to federal and state lawmakers that we will not stand for this censorship!
Second, as we’ve always said, the internet always routes around censorship. And it’s clear from politicians’ recent scramble to expand the bans from adult content and social media to include privacy-protecting tools like VPNs that they’re well aware of the mass opposition to these policies.
So amongst all of this success, it’s important that we don’t give up this fight. Let’s keep the momentum alive by being loud and clear about our opposition—both by reaching out to your own representatives and by having conversations with your community to make sure everyone knows the danger of these mandates.
Do you believe that there is a safe way to verify age on the internet period?
There’s no way to build an age verification system that fully protects speech and privacy rights for everyone, which is why we oppose age gating and age verification mandates in general. That being said, for a particular person in a particular situation who knows their own needs, there might be ways to minimize your own risk. We wrote this page in our guide to age verification to help people navigate those decisions, but I’ll explain a bit of why that is here.
There’s no universal answer to the question of safe age verification—it’s always going to depend on your threat model. What might be safe for one person isn’t going to be safe for every person. And, methods that might be safe right now aren’t always going to be possible to use.
To make it more concrete—a good example is Google’s facial age estimation, which uses an implementation provided by a company called Private ID. That age estimation happens on your device, so your photo isn’t going anywhere. You might be tempted to think that this is a perfectly safe age estimation method, and it might be, for some people! Except…if a government really wanted an image of your face for some reason, they could tell the company that they need to wait for you to download the javascript, and then send you a backdoored version of the code that does in fact upload and save that photo. That’s obviously unlikely to happen to most people, and we hope the company would fight back, but you certainly couldn’t say that that’s 100% safe for everyone.
But even more likely is that this method isn’t likely to be available for everyone. Even the best facial age estimation systems have an error range of about 1-2 years, so companies trying to keep out everyone under 18 will often set the minimum estimated age to 19 or 20 to compensate. It’s like when bars card everyone who looks under 25. So if you’re actually 18, you might not be able to use this system to prove your age at all, because the system will just say sorry 🤷, we can’t be sure, gonna need you to use some other form of verification.
And every possible system has something like this, whether it’s some tradeoff of privacy, accuracy, or availability. And they’re all going to infringe on your speech and privacy rights in some way. Hopefully our guide will help you figure out for yourself what’s safest out of the available options, but if none of these is good enough for your needs, that’s totally understandable.
What about a digital ID that can do zero knowledge verification? When you reach an age gated site, it would send the site only a y/n response to if you're over 18, and absolutely nothing else.
Check out our earlier answer here about zero-knowledge proofs
But how many governments across the world don't **already** have facial pictures of their citizens through photo id?
Well, according to this 2023 survey, “Nearly 21 million voting-age U.S. citizens do not have a current (non-expired) driver’s license. Just under 9%, or 20.76 million people, who are U.S. citizens aged 18 or older do not have a non-expired driver’s license. Another 12% (28.6 million) have a non-expired license, but it does not have both their current address and current name.” So, not sure about across the world, but 1 in 10 U.S. adults is not insignificant.
More than that, there’s a difference between having a photo on file and having a photo taken of you right now, right when you’re about to post a joke on Mastodon or read some erotic fanfic. Your photo ID also isn’t constantly being associated and linked to your online activity (yet). Are you in a different location than normal that might be revealed in the background? Will the lighting give information about what time zone you’re currently in? Is your current outfit in your ID photo, your current hairstyle? Even for people with a photo ID on file, a current photo can still leak more information than the government might already have.
What should I do if brick and mortar stores are scanning my ID instead of just visually checking its validity?
Big THANK YOU to the EFF.org team for conducting this AMA in r/privacy!
UPDATE:
EFF has completed their 2nd AMA session for the week (12/16), but they’ll be back again tomorrow for their final session (Wednesday 12/17) from 12-5pm PT to answer more questions about online age verification!
Please keep submitting more questions everyone. Thanks to all who have participated and/or followed along so far!
Age verification is already here on many sites. Is there any hope left to fight back?
There is absolutely still hope! EFF is fighting back by challenging these unconstitutional laws in court, pushing lawmakers to reject them before they pass, and helping communities protect their rights to privacy, anonymity, and free expression online.
If you're ready to join us, you can urge your state lawmakers to reject harmful age-verification laws. Call or email your representatives to oppose KOSA and any other proposed federal age-checking mandates.
Beyond that, the most important thing you can do right now is to educate yourself on the risks and harms of these bills, and make sure your community does the same. Make your voice heard by talking to your friends and family about what we all stand to lose if the age-gated internet becomes a global reality. And get loud in your opposition to these oppressive digital regimes. Because the fight for a free internet starts with us.
If you’re looking for one small action you can take today that will make a meaningful difference, we recommend checking out our tool for contacting Congress about KOSA: Don't let congress censor the internet!
Thank you for your reply. I should mention that I’m based in the EU, where similar measures are being pushed through at a rapid pace with no public debate. It’s discouraging to see these policies steamrolled despite the serious implications for privacy, free expression, and digital rights.
Thank you. This belongs on the front page of news on reddit. Hell, even reddit should be sounding the horn so to speak.
✔️
Thanks for your support! We agree—that's exactly why we made the resource hub at EFF.org/Age. Our goal is to help everyone understand the ins and outs (including the more wonky technical and legal details) of this issue so we all feel comfortable speaking out to oppose these bills. The more visible our opposition to mandatory age-gates is, the more effective we can be to stop them from ruining our internet.
And re: Reddit, they actually just challenged Australia's first-of-its-kind social media ban for users under 16! More info on that here: https://gizmodo.com/reddit-sues-australia-over-teen-social-media-ban-as-other-nations-consider-similar-laws-2000699275
Is this an almost hopeless fight? There seems to be a coordinated push throughout the west for these sorts of laws with the same “MUH CHILDREN” or “MUH TERRORISTS” as an excuse.
Is it better for us who care to attempt to hunker down and try to protect ourselves? The general public has shown they do not care about privacy and are happy for the governments of the world to invade our right to privacy. Look how quickly people have forgotten the Snowden and Wikileaks Vault 7 revelations. Same with what happened to Lavabit (that lead to them shutting down instead of complying).
I guess what I am getting at is (to summarise): the majority seem to support these laws and are happy to trade away their freedoms for “safety”. We aren’t just fighting against the state , it’s the average person as well. It feels futile. I don’t think we stand a chance at fighting back until the average person starts to feel the negative effects of these continued erosions on civil liberties themselves… But I suppose by then it will be too late.
We mention the concept of “privacy nihilism” in this response and in our blog post titled “Privacy isn’t dead. Far from it,” which is what it sounds like you’re hinting at — people’s apathy and sense that “oh, I don’t have anything to hide, so why should I care about privacy.” But this year alone has given us plenty of real life examples of just how much the boundaries are shifting and how even the average person can be targeted or surveilled. Complaining about your love life online? Attending a protest? Seeking healthcare? Have a premium PornHub account? What about, um, checks notes… ever use your home's electric utilities? Privacy is your fight too. Whether we’re fighting laws that require you to provide personal identification to access information, data brokers, or government surveillance—this is an issue that impacts us all.
What can we do to help? Offer to volunteer? Protest? Call the government en masse? Sincerely, what are the best and most effective things we can be doing to fight this?
If you’re looking for one small action you can take today that will make a meaningful difference, we recommend checking out our tool for contacting Congress about KOSA: Don't let congress censor the internet
And check out our answer here for more info! https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/1pk5n1y/comment/nu8bg44/
Will you sue
We’re not gonna give our opponents a heads up like that 👍 (Or as our lawyers would say, we don’t discuss legal strategy publicly!)
But seriously, we are always looking for opportunities to challenge these laws. Though our legal fight got harder this past summer with the Supreme Court decision in Free Speech Coalition v. Paxton, we’re nowhere near knocked out of the fight. Paxton wrongly weakened First Amendment protections for adults' access to online speech, but it did not end the legal debate over age-verification mandates. At EFF, we continue to fight age-verification mandates in the many other contexts in which we see them throughout the country and the world.
Importantly, the Supreme Court’s decision in Paxton does not approve of age gates when they are imposed on speech that is legal for minors and adults.
Minors and adults have coextensive rights to both speak and access the speech of other users on these sites because the vast majority of the speech is not sexual material that would be obscene to minors. Lawmakers should be careful not to interpret Paxton to mean that broader restrictions on minors’ First Amendment rights, like those included in the Kids Online Safety Act, would be deemed constitutional.
Free Speech Coalition v. Paxton will have an effect on nearly every U.S. adult internet user for the foreseeable future. It marks a worrying shift in the ways that governments can restrict access to speech online. But that only means we must work harder than ever to protect privacy, security, and free speech as central tenets of the internet.
Edit: P.S. Have you seen our new Let’s Sue the Government! tees?
1) Can't a PGP-style age verification system be developed, such as in some vote-by-mail systems (e.g. ballots nested in envelopes)?
2) What are some specific scenarios that could result if age verification were misused by governments?
But at the end of the day, there’s just not going to be a technical solution to the issue at hand. There’s no way to implement age gates in a way that’s available to everyone and fully protects speech and privacy rights. Age verification fundamentally burdens everyone’s right to speak and access information online, and structurally excludes the very people who rely on the internet most.
So there’s a few different cases here. In one, we have the danger that age verification will lead to information becoming available to governments that they wouldn’t otherwise have had access to. Think about internet usage patterns tied to government identities—like law enforcement finding out who’s searched for information on abortion or gender affirming care in a state where it’s criminalized, or ICE getting lists of which users avoided providing valid U.S. government ID, or a protest organizer being targeted due to their social media activity. Anonymity is a pillar of our First Amendment rights (in the US) and of online safety in general. Destroying it with mandatory age verification will bring immense harm to those who rely on it.
In the other case, we’re talking about how governments can use age verification mandates to restrict access to free speech and information. These laws are a way for governments to give themselves the authority to decide what topics are deemed “safe” for young people to access, and force online services to remove and block anything that may be deemed “unsafe.” Banning pornography is one of Project 2025’s goals, which is why The Heritage Foundation is a staunch supporter of age verification laws. They even said it was a “back door starting with the kids” to ban porn altogether. Age verification mandates undermine the fundamental speech rights of adults and young people alike; create new barriers to accessing vibrant, lawful, even life-saving content; and needlessly jeopardize all internet users’ privacy, anonymity, and security.
What do we do?
In the face of what seems like sudden and overwhelming government overreach on privacy, what do normal people do, not just to protect ourselves, but privacy in general, for everyone?
We feel you, bud. We answered this question here, and here, but will never let an opportunity to say this go by: education and outreach. Our only chance of stopping these laws before they become the norm is by speaking up and educating ourselves and loved ones.
Pleasd could you extend your efforts to Europe, like in colaboration and coordination with orgs like Edri and X-net with the age hub and other initiatives?.
We have (a few!) EFF staff in the EU who are focused on pushing back against bad age verification and digital ID bills in that region.
We also work together and coordinate with EDRi and other European groups on digital rights matters, including age verification. Because the debate really differs from country to country, we rely on local people and organizations to guide our work in Europe.
Here’s an example of some of our recent work in the U.K. fighting that nation’s “Digital ID” proposal; we’re working with U.K.-based partners and encouraging residents there to contact their MPs.
W EFF, You are doing a good fight, let's stop age verification
Thank you!! Yes, let's! EFF.org/Age 💪💪💪
Thank you for everything you have done.
I feel like all governments that try to push age verification will always use same "moral picklock" to gain voters.
It's for the "children safety" they say.
Because they know that majority of less tech-savvy people will then support them, they are making ad populum argument that completely neglects other privacy and government authoritarian power escalation risks, thats so baffling to me.
Is there any way to actually make them stop using this argument? I guess that would need an information campaign, viral posts or some encouragement to younger people to educate their family members. People need to understand that mentioning children safety can be gamified by politicians or anyone even if they are not doing this for children.
We started writing about this in response to this comment, but there’s always more to say on this “protect the kids” point. Here are a few more thoughts:
First, there is no “kid exception” to the First Amendment. Full stop. Minors have long had the same First Amendment rights as adults: to talk about politics, create art, comment on the news, discuss or practice religion, and more. And the Supreme Court has repeatedly struck down laws that restrict minors’ speech or impose parental-permission requirements. So rather than imposing age verification requirements to force platforms to determine which users are minors, why not extend privacy protections to all of us—adults and young people alike?
Second, much of the push to “protect the children” is really a push to fight back against the influence of “Big Tech." But, if we don’t trust those megacorporations with our private info and to know what’s best for our young people already, why would the solution to this problem be to hand them even *more* of our most private, most sensitive, most valuable data? It just doesn’t make sense.
If we want to restrain big tech’s influence over our politics and our speech, we need to actually do something meaningful to increase consumer control over our own data, our own settings, our own online experiences! Pass comprehensive consumer privacy law, restrain data brokers, give us ALL more control over our own accounts, and teach parents how to use existing parental controls. That’s how we rein in the influence of big tech companies—not by empowering them with even more data.
How do we make the internet fun again?
The internet was more fun when it was less extractive. When it gave us more than it took.
A lot of what we miss isn’t just vibes and nostalgia. It’s the fact that you could explore, create, and interact without being optimized for surveillance. When we’re monetized, tracked, ranked, and targeted, fun dies.
Making the internet fun again means we must push against that trend. We need to protect privacy by default, defend anonymity for those who choose it, and support small, weird, user-driven spaces instead of a few giant platforms. And when it comes to data hoarding and the worst dark patterns, we need regulation, so companies can’t profit while making things more miserable.
Fun comes from freedom, innovation, and experimentation. We need to defend those values and not accept an internet that treats every user like data to be monitored or a problem to be controlled.
I hope everyone here is a paying member of the EFF!
Hey thanks, friend! Leaving this here in case anyone needs it: eff.org/donate/ 😇
Funny how I can buy technically legal opiates and psychadelics online without showing ID, but I can't look at the menu for a local restaurant because its only on facebook and I don't have an account which can verify my age with biometrics or whatever.
This is a good example of the censorship that can be caused by these bills. Social media is in the fabric of our lives, sometimes whether we like it or not. Even the Supreme Court recognizes its ubiquity as the “modern public square.”
Online age restrictions also impact far more people than in-person ID checks, as examples like this show. And millions of adults in the U.S. don’t have ID at all.
In the real world, you can walk into a grocery store, select what you need, and only get asked for your ID if you put liquor in your cart. Online age verification is like asking everyone at the door, before they even buy a loaf of bread.
You’re right to feel weird about having to show ID, or submit to shady face-scanning companies, to access perfectly legal and mundane content like a restaurant menu. These laws are a violation of our First Amendment rights—even the courts agree!
What about TOR, and onion routing? And legally, what happens if an company based in a country that doesnt have age verification allows TOR users onto their site. Then, what if another country mandates that certain websites need to block TOR. Obviously, the company is in a country that believes differently, so what happens?
Can you give your statement about so-called zero knowledge proofs.
We’ve written up a whole post about that, available here! tl;dr: ZKPs provide a cryptographic way to not give something away, like your exact date of birth and age from your ID. Instead, they offer a “yes-or-no” claim (like above or below 18) to a verifier requiring a legal age threshold. Zero-knowledge can be beneficial to the holder, because they don’t have to share explicit information like a birth date—just cryptographic proof that said information exists and is valid.
What ZKPs don’t do is mitigate verifier abuse or limit their requests, such as over-asking for information they don’t need or limiting the number of times they request your age over time. These requests could then be combined over time to discover more information than it might seem is being revealed at first glance. If a website asks if you’re over 18 and the answer is yes, and then asks if you’re over 19 and the answer is no, they’re going to know you’re exactly 18. If they ask this every day of the year, they could even figure out your exact birthday. They also don’t prevent websites or applications from collecting other kinds of observable personally identifiable information (PII) like your IP address or other device information while interacting with them. So while they’re called zero-knowledge proofs for historical technical reasons, in practice they’re at most less-knowledge proofs.
And this isn’t even getting into considerations of the system as a whole! To use a ZKP in the first place, you need some sort of information on the local device. We most commonly see ZKP mentioned in the context of having a local digital ID, which means you have to deal with all the problems of digital ID in the first place—are you even able to get one? What happens when you’re sharing a device with someone? Is every single site you interact with going to use ZKPs, or are you going to end up sharing more information than you wanted to because there’s so much less friction now? Will it end up being used for identity verification in addition to age verification? And if that age information isn’t coming from a digital ID, what other verification system is being used, and what are the limitations of that one? There’s so much more to consider than just the zero-knowledge information exchange itself.
Thanks. Could you specifically write about EU's proposal risks ageverification.dev and problem which it will cause for people who use free software.
We've got a whole three-part series about age verification in the EU! Check it out here, and let us know if that answers your questions.
Thanks. Also, can you clarify could their app be called an open source app if it completely dependant on 3rd party proprietary APIs of attestation providers?
Having not personally read nor reviewed the proposed policies brought before Congress, can you share specifically how constituents believe age verification mandates carry benefits?
This is not something that I have asked of my representative government nor something that I have delegated to them to act on my behalf.
First, parents groups have been working for years on Capitol Hill to push for these sorts of age verification mandates. Many of them have lost their children in tragic circumstances and are calling on Congress to intervene to enact measures like KOSA, the Kids Online Safety Act, that they believe will prevent similar harms from occurring in the future to other children.
Online child safety is a complex issue. But bills like KOSA that implicitly mandate age verification will not make kids safer. It will, however, introduce new privacy and speech issues to the internet. We wrote about this more in another comment, so check that out for more thoughts on the “online safety” point.
Beyond that, we’re also seeing supporters of these bills tout their ability to rein in big tech companies’ influence over our feeds, our politics, and even our well-being. This too is misguided. In reality, age verification mandates concentrate and consolidate power in the hands of the largest companies—the only entities with the resources to build costly compliance systems and absorb potentially massive fines.
We saw this happen in the UK when the Online Safety Act came into force. Platforms like Reddit, YouTube, and Spotify implemented broad (and extremely clunky) age verification measures while smaller sites were forced to shutter.
This perfectly illustrates the market impact of online age verification laws. When smaller platforms inevitably cave under the financial pressure of these mandates, users will be pushed back to the social media giants. These huge companies—those that can afford expensive age verification systems and aren’t afraid of a few $10,000 fines while they figure out compliance—will end up getting more business, more traffic, and more power to censor users and violate their privacy.
Tim Cook going to DC to lobby against it seems like a powerful voice to have. How successful will overturning KOSA be with him "helping"?
Apple has actually been lobbying in support of KOSA—this is their support letter to Senate sponsors of KOSA back in May of this year. KOSA is written so that big tech companies like Apple will be able to handle the regulatory burden that KOSA will demand, while smaller platforms will struggle to comply.
While big companies like Apple are not with us, there is still a large coalition of voices opposing KOSA, and there remains substantial differences between the House version and the Senate version of the bill.
Apple is opposed, however, to the App Store Accountability Act, a bill that would age gate the app stores. Apple's global head of privacy wrote to the Energy and Commerce Committee in a statement that “Some well-intended proposals for age verification at the app marketplace level ... would require the collection of sensitive information about anyone who wants to download an app, even if it’s an app that simply provides weather updates or sports scores.”
Not only would this bill run into the same privacy and speech concerns as other age verification measures, it also raises a competition issue. It entrenches Apple and Google as the dominant app stores. As one Congresswoman put it during the subcommittee markup last week, the committee needs to “get to the heart of breaking through the monopoly/duopoly on our kids’ phones.”
How do you plan on getting the message out there to stop these laws from passing? We need even the most tech illiterate to push back against this before its too late, but we're fighting against fear mongering.
Fear is definitely driving a lot of this, and the only way to counter it is with broad, public pushback, like we saw during the SOPA/PIPA fight years ago. That’s exactly why we built the Age Verification Resource Hub and why we’re working to grow a large coalition of advocates, parents, technologists, and everyday internet users who understand what’s really at stake.
We’re also trying to do our part by pushing back on multiple fronts: challenging these unconstitutional laws in court, urging lawmakers to reject these bills before they pass, and helping communities understand how age verification threatens privacy, anonymity, and free expression for everyone. But we also can’t do it alone, and that’s why education is key. As you say, even the most “tech illiterate” need to push back. Talk about this with your friends, family, and local community. Nearly every state has considered one of these bills, so watch what’s happening locally and tell your lawmakers to oppose harmful age-verification mandates. And at the federal level, call or email your representatives to oppose KOSA and any other age-checking proposals.
This only works if people speak up, and the earlier we do that, the better our chances are of stopping these laws before they become the norm.
I remember seeing posts remembering the SOPA/PIPA thing, when I first came on Reddit, years and accounts ago...
How does the situation today compare? Did it all seem as dire back then?
Can you talk about some of EFFs recent wins for privacy? What gets the most traction, in terms of driving changes to privacy enforcement and rules?
It’s easy to miss wins in privacy because sometimes they look like “nothing bad happened.” But there have been some real, concrete impacts.
Defending encryption: some of the biggest threats in the last decade have been legislative efforts to weaken encryption. We’ve defeated those at almost every turn. In defeating the EARN IT bill, we moved hundreds of thousands of messages to legislators. The bill didn’t advance. Just as important, the understanding of encryption’s importance among the public, and among lawmakers, has improved dramatically. Ten years ago, end-to-end encryption was an obscure talking point; today, it’s widely understood to be essential to our personal data and our basic rights.
Making web encryption the default: EFF’s HTTPS Everywhere and early support for Let’s Encrypt and Certbot helped change the baseline of the internet. Once a minority of sites used HTTPS. We have pushed it toward ubiquity: today about 90% of web traffic is encrypted, and browsers offer built-in HTTPS preference settings. That means the web browsing of ordinary people is far harder to spy on than it used to be.
Shaping real privacy law: We were involved in shaping and strengthening the California Consumer Privacy Act, which set a national benchmark for data rights. We also helped pass follow-on state laws like the DELETE Act (2023), giving Californians real control over data brokers’ sale and collection of personal information.
Winning in courts: We’ve long said that location data should get strong protection. In 2018, the Supreme Court agreed with us, finding in Carpenter v. US that accessing detailed phone location data should require a warrant.
No single tactic wins alone, but coordinated pressure on the technical, legal, and policy fronts does move the needle.
What stops something similar to the Ashley Madison Data Breach from happening again with this new age verification? What if all our names or verification selfies get exposed? Will the CEOs actually get arrested??? Not looking forward to the next major data breach settlement to only award someone $20 for having one's entire life upended.
It appears that reddit has shadow-banned you. This means that no one will see your posts or comments unless a mod or admin happens upon them and manually approves them, as I have done here.
You can appeal this via https://reddit.com/appeal
[deleted]
You’re not wrong! Basically every time we provide our ID or biometric data to a platform to verify our age, we are also sharing it with the third-party companies that provide age verifying services to that platform, and any number of unseen intermediaries too. So by mandating age-verification, we’re creating irresistible targets for hackers and governments alike.
We all saw the fallout of the Ashley Madison breach. Now imagine what happens if law enforcement gets their hands on a database linking government names to the accounts of people who searched for information on abortion in a state where it’s criminalized? If ICE gets access to a list of folks who avoided providing valid U.S. government ID? Anonymity is a pillar of our First Amendment rights (in the US) and of online safety in general. Destroying it with mandatory age verification will bring immense harm to those who rely on it.
Online, there’s no way for users to verify that their private information has been deleted, or to ensure that it won’t be copied, sold, or stolen. Companies that claim to delete personal data such as IDs—including age verification companies—have already experienced data breaches, and the more data a company collects, the more likely the chance of a data breach.
Here are a few recent examples of age-verifying companies getting hacked:
This is scary stuff! There is no fully safe, fully accurate, fully secure system of age verification. Full stop. As individual users, we have to stay alert and try our best to make wise decisions as to which systems we opt in and out of.
Do you have any communities in Europe, especially in former Eastern Bloc countries, such as Hungary, Serbia, etc?
I'm primarily interested in setting up/programming privacy related technology and things.
RemindMe! tomorrow
Do you see state governments aggressively enforcing age verification laws? For example, is Florida (or Arkansas or whatever) actually auditing collected IDs, looking for fakes, and chasing down flouters?
Most age-gating laws do not make it a crime for users to evade age gates, but instead punish companies and app stores that fail to comply. (For example, many laws threaten platforms with steep fines per infraction—that is, per each individual user under X age that slips past verification.)
So, two things:
First, this is a red-meat issue for many state AGs, so we absolutely are seeing states aggressively enforcing these laws against online services. We’ve already seen this in Florida, and just today the Indiana Attorney General sued Aylo (Pornhub’s parent company) for violating its age gate on adult sites even though Aylo tried to geoblock Indiana users.
Second, while the enforcement of these laws happens against the services (not individual users), that doesn’t mean lawmakers aren’t trying their best to keep users from finding ways around their age-gates. There’s been a wave of proposals across the US and the world to ban VPNs, for example. Read more here: https://eff.org/deeplinks/2025/11/lawmakers-want-ban-vpns-and-they-have-no-idea-what-theyre-doing
What practical measures can we take in the US to fight against this? Also, thank you for everything you do.
Why are we adopting their language about "age verification"? It minimizes the privacy invasion and makes their motive sound reasonable.
What would the legal implications be of creating or using a website that generates fake IDs for people? Are they checking against official government records? What about foreign citizens, who would be harder to check?
Who or what groups are behind the global push for this? It's all very coordinated and synchronized. What lobbies or lobby is behind it? Nation state(s)? Industry groups?
This has been coordinated, pushed, and now gradually enacted with the level of zeal and urgency that concrete climate action should have been enacted decades ago but never was, and isn't even a topic of conversation anymore. Maybe there's a link, idk.
We are a group in South Africa fighting and tiring to get the word out on our white paper draft legislation "Draft White Paper on Audio and Audiovisual Media Services and Online Safety"
While we get the occasional like, it has been hard to get alot non online people involved with push back.
Unlike AUS or the UK, we actually have a smaller list of people to push back to, the issue is alot of SA is not as entuned with online legislation as the US. so 3 questions:
-Is it better to built resources (website, social media etc) and point to people their or be more proactive and have larger campaign.
- Some of our mps dont know about the white paper, would it be better to message them while campaigning the committee remove it or just focus on the committee while its in its draft stage?
-Has the EFF considered making a anti age verification campaign kit/checklist for people fighting it in their region(particularly people who may be new to it, but want to have a broader push back in their region), we are observe how fight for the future has been handling their KOSA campaign, same as Fight chat control, but their is not shared resources on what worked and what didn't in terms of messaging.
The problem we need to fix is our dishonest government. Age verification isn't the only sham they have going right now. Flock cameras and drone regulations and some others that I'm sure EFF is already aware of.
You’re absolutely right, age verification is just one piece of a much bigger problem. We’re seeing the same surveillance-first approach show up with tools like Flock cameras, drone regulations, and more. That’s why we’re constantly pushing back, including suing the government when necessary. We’ve covered Flock and drones a lot and aren’t planning to stop. The fight against surveillance has a lot of fronts, and we’re in it for the long haul.
Tell me if you know about the Electronic Visitation Verification under the CARES Act. Being required to report your location on a mobile time punch for related state services. It is not helpful for providers and some cases the patient.
Besides educating people, what can we in the privacy community do to make impacts in our cities and countries?
Reach out to your elected representatives, both at the state and national level—early and often! It does make a difference. Even lawmakers who aren’t sponsoring these bills are being briefed on them, and silence is too often interpreted as consent. Our Action Center is a good place to start, but you can do this on your own too.
If you’ve reached out, tell others that you did so, and why. Social proof matters more than people realize, especially on issues like this that aren’t already politically polarized.
It also doesn’t take huge numbers. We’ve seen bills stall or lose momentum after just a few thousand well-placed emails or calls, especially early in the process. Being aware—which you are, by virtue of being here—and showing up early are some of the most effective things you can do.
As I understand it, EFF is mostly staffed with lawyers. Other than positioning and knowledge-building what you doing to fight age verification laws?
EFF is more than just lawyers, and we don’t just write blog posts. Our teams include litigators, technologists, activists, and policy advocates, and we use all of those tools.
On the legal side, we’ve filed briefs in court cases about age verification in cases around the country, including California (twice), Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, Ohio, Utah, Texas, and Tennessee, and the Supreme Court. Across these cases we argued the same point: these laws burden the First Amendment rights of both young people and adults.
On the policy side, we have dedicated lobbyists and advocates who meet directly with lawmakers and staff to explain, in practical terms, why age verification harms peoples’ privacy, chills speech, and creates security risks. We also run an Action Center that lets supporters contact their representatives directly, and we use that to mobilize opposition to the most threatening age-verification bills. That pressure matters—when tens of thousands of people take action, lawmakers do listen.
Technologists at EFF analyze how age-verification systems actually work in practice—what data they collect, how they fail, and how they can be abused. That technical knowledge feeds directly into our litigation, lobbying, and public advocacy.
We do publish research and analysis, but that’s part of the ecosystem, not the end goal.
In short: we litigate, we lobby, we organize users, and we bring technical reality into rooms where it’s often missing.
Considering the amount of the recent attacks on anonymity on the internet and surge of anti privacy laws I would like to ask if you can tell whether those are coordinated efforts or not. I don't believe in some global conspiracy but I know for instance that with Chatcontrol there was a ton of lobbying behind it and that all of this is happening in such a short time frame seems very odd too me. Or is it that most countries are now just copying the status quo of the US?
Oh yes. You’re not some crazy conspiracy theorist—there is a well-funded, organized, and concerted effort to pass these laws around the country. Banning pornography is one of Project 2025’s goals, which is why The Heritage Foundation is a staunch supporter of age verification laws. They even said it was a “back door starting with the kids” to ban porn altogether. Plus, there’s a huge “age verification” industry that seeks to profit from these laws and is cheering on the legislators and feeding false promises about accuracy and safety. In the U.K., there have been political lobbying groups claiming credit for the idea since 2017, and stating the intent being to ban porn altogether. We don’t know what’s happening in every country, but wouldn’t be surprised to hear similar stories from around the globe.
Hey, EFF friends! Love y'all. You're fighting the good fight out there.
I'm coming for that trivia trophy. It will be mine.
Is there any concern about AI being able to scrape the online verification databases for more information, and once this information is out there how do we claw it back?
How would we go about fighting this and convincing people that privacy is worth it? I can't convince a single person not to hand their data out all willy nilly, since they either think its convenient, not worth the time to stop, or that they have nothing to hide
This question comes up a lot, and we’ve answered it in a few different places in this AMA. But wanted to throw out a few more EFF resources that could be useful in these conversations: Privacy Harm is Harm and Privacy Loves Company
wow, this age verification stuff creeps me out tbh… feels like it’s just adding more ways for companies to track us. kinda wild how protecting privacy keeps getting harder.
Maybe I'm just not looking in the right places, but why is it that we see so little in terms of alternative solutions to "child safety laws"? Obviously, age verification is terrible, but the wording wrapped around these laws makes it such that the average person is unlikely to want to speak against these laws, either because it sounds good on paper or they're afraid of people accusing them of not wanting children to be safe online. I understand a big part of this may just be that Congress or whoever else is in a position to bring forth better proposals is unwilling, for whatever reason, But Is there not at least the beginning of a solution in finding and popularizing effective alternative, privacy-preserving laws or proposals that would protect children and would make terrible laws like KOSA and other age verification laws redundant for their stated goals of protecting children?
All I see on social media and many protests are "stop age verification", "Stop Kosa", etc., which I completely agree with; age verification and all these other laws are terrifying as they are. Still, without a loud second option, even if we win today's fight against this, it will just come up again and again every year until it gets rammed into law in the end anyway. At the very least, an attempt should be made to make the people pushing these laws arguments irrelevant; if the only arguments left can be summed up as "surveillance" and "censorship", then maybe there will finally be a meaningful chance of putting these laws to rest.
I have heard there are methods of doing age verification without infringing upon privacy, but for the sake of giving an idea for an alternative to age verification. Even if this may be a poor place to do it, is a poor solution, or it would just plain not work in practice for any number of reasons, as I don't claim to be knowledgeable about law, especially of a country I don't live in, but American law affects almost everybody, so I don't think weighing in is unfair. One of the arguments I've seen politicians make is that they want to reduce the burden on parents. While I believe that is a poor argument in general, it's generally true that many parents don't put much effort into parental controls. So I would say, instead of reducing the burden, reverse the nature of it, make ISP level parental controls be enabled on newly connected devices by default, in my mind, this would be more effective than age verification, and would force parents to engage with the tools at their disposal both to protect their kids and to enable their own access to a lot of the web, and since most ISPs I am aware of have parental controls and only sell service to adults, the only ones that should have access to this already would be adults. While this would create a small barrier to access, importantly, this would use already existing tools, and not affect privacy. I'm not sure if it would be technologically viable without breaking privacy, but it may also be possible to forward these settings to VPN connections and ask that they respect them, or simply include VPN connections in the parental controls. This would also do a lot to remove the burden from websites, particularly smaller ones that can't afford age verification tools and are simply crushed by the existence of these laws.
Thanks for raising this question! Yes, there are absolutely legislative alternatives to age verification that will actually make the internet safer (among many other benefits!).
Comprehensive federal privacy for all! EFF has long advocated for a strong federal privacy law. Protecting people's privacy is the first step we should take to create meaningful online regulation. Creating a federal privacy right that includes strong enforcement mechanisms, like a private right of action, and making sure Congress’s protections are a floor and not a ceiling will protect users without running into the free expression and privacy issues that age verification measures present.
You can also push for better enforcement of our antitrust laws and new legislation to address monopoly abuse by powerful tech companies. Privacy and competition work hand in hand to address monopoly harms.
Some people are saying OS level verification systems. I don't like these either. It goes back to the Intel Pentium III processor serial number controversy from a couple of decades back. But even newer processors like vPro have said we're gonna put it in anyway.
My questions are about the legality of bypassing age verification.
Are there currently any laws against bypassing age verification that you know of? And do you think in the near future that they will start bringing in laws to make people less likely to bypass age verification?
Although most state laws only require online services to erect the age gates and do not make it unlawful for a user to bypass them, you should check your local law carefully before intentionally facilitating a minor’s access to a site for which the law aims to limit access. Even if there isn’t a law about that on the books right now, there’s a chance that could change.
As for new laws, we’re already seeing attempts to ban uses of Virtual Private Networks (VPNs), which have seen increased interest since age gate mandates started rolling out.
For example, in 2025, Wisconsin lawmakers escalated their war on privacy by targeting VPNs in the name of “protecting children” in A.B. 105/S.B. 130. It’s an age verification bill that requires all websites distributing material that could conceivably be deemed “sexual content” to both implement an age verification system and also to block the access of users connected via VPN. Another proposed Michigan bill requires “An internet service provider providing internet service in this state [to] actively monitor and block known circumvention tools.” Circumvention tools being: VPNs.
We wrote more here about why this is a terrible idea. In short: banning VPNs is a privacy and competition nightmare, and it won’t even work.
South Africa is having its own Age verification legislation "Draft paper on audio and audiovisual media and online safety"
So far I believe we can get our Age verification stipulation removed,but it has been a challenge getting people to push back. We have had zero news coverage about it and only the privacy policy observers like me even know it's happening. 3 questions.
-we are attempting to reach out to stakeholders and organisations to inform them about this legislation,are their a best practice tips that can be offered on how to build coalitions? We have tried long emails, short emails,but received no response.
-In terms of campaigning what core messaging should campaigners against age verification have for Legislators talking points about it being essential for child saftey. We have explained this is overkill and infringes multiple rights,but their messaging is always child saftey "like buying beer" and all that.
Thanks for the articles they have been a great help getting people in my country informed on what's happening.
What measures can be taken to protect an individual's privacy in the US when the law itself compromises it in many cases?
We’ve tried our best to answer this in the “User Guide to Navigating Age Assurance”! There’s a real sense of “privacy nihilism” that these laws hope to instill in us, and we can’t let that happen so easily. Privacy isn’t dead! Far from it!
Hey will you guess be able to stop the kosa package I'm scared of what might happen
We sure are trying! You can help us by spreading our blogs and actions opposing it. We expect there will be a renewed KOSA debate in January and we will be there. We have been fighting this bill in various forms for more than three years now, and it hasn’t passed yet—and that is thanks to organized opposition.
Well good luck
While it looks like this is a USA based ama are you collaborating with others to fight it for example in Europe as well?
The EU is currently pushing a similar age verification nonsense and we are fighting against it as good as we can but I feel like writing to my MPs isn't doing much when lobbying is hat strong.
Yes, we are working with organisations in the European Union and the United Kingdom on a range of age gating measures. In the UK, we've been advocating against the Online Safety Act since 2019 and working with organisations like Open Rights Group, Big Brother Watch and Index on Censorship to call on politicians to first drop the legislative proposal and more recently reform or repeal it. We've also worked to mobilise public pressure through public petitions and media engagement. In the EU, we fight against a multitude of age gating proposals, such as the plans to introduce a Digital Identity Wallet and the mini AV app, and the Commission's general support for an EU digital minimum age of 16 for access to social media.
Thanks for your hard work!
Hi! I am using temp mail accounts (https://temp-mail.org/) to sign up for services (reddit, netlify (file hosting), protonmail (email without phone)). I live in the Netherlands. Will anything change for me if the europe age verification law is passed? Or if the chat control law is passed?
How are the measures supposed to work with free OSes and computers that load unsigned software? Especially the EU digital ID.
Q: What is your thoughts on using Anonymous Credentials in cryptography parlance as a way to prove identity and such; where anonymous credential providers could be either via government platform or a regulated provider? Follow up - do you know if this has been implemented successfully?
potential controlled oppositions.
What's your stance regarding government and banking apps using hardware attestation APIs such as Google Play Integrity? Hardware attestation makes alternative operating systems unusable and can also be used by governments to control what software our devices can run. So for example, they can use hardware attestation so that you can only connect to the Internet via devices running operating systems whitelisted by the government that can only run "verified" apps
what do yall actually accomplish besides making blog posts and selling shirts??
Winning a metric fuck ton of court cases: https://www.eff.org/legal-victories
[removed]
Feel free creating your own thread about this.
They are probably the most effective beneficial advocacy organization in existence. Without them, tech illiterate boomer politicians would have severely damaged the global internet dozens of times.
EFF is more than just writing blog posts, though we do write some great blog posts and sell some mighty fine shirts. Our teams include litigators, technologists, activists, and policy advocates, and we use all of those tools.
In short: we litigate, we lobby, we organize users, and we bring technical reality into rooms where it’s often missing. We wrote a bit more about what our work includes over in this comment.
Tangential question, but what is the EFF's stance on Stop Killing Games?
Hey there u should contact apple apprently Tim is going to the government about these laws, allso what is ur solution to CSAM materail online.
I belive it needs to be regulated but I dont want to give up privacy just so the government knows what I am doing all the time.
I have a question! Do we have a good chance at fighting and winning against this?
On a practical day-to-day basis, we’ve outlined a "User Guide to Navigating Age Assurance" in our hub that might have some of those practical measures you’re looking for. BUT we also happen to think civic engagement is, and should be, practical. Educate yourself on the risks and harms of these bills, and make sure your community does the same, then make your voice heard by talking to everyone about what we all stand to lose if the age-gated internet becomes a global reality. Almost every state has introduced or passed one of these laws, so keep an eye out and urge your state lawmakers to reject harmful age-verification laws. Also, call or email your representatives to oppose KOSA and all other proposed federal age-checking mandates. We wrote a bit more about what you can do in another comment as well.
Hi.
My question, excuse me if it sounds a bit selfish as an european, is do you know what type of laws are being cooked for the Eurozone?
As you have said, these are measures that are going to be implemented worldwide, and I can understand that allowing 10yo to jerk of to the most explicit and high res porn will have consequences on that generation, as well as the constant Tok and Instagram use from early ages. But again, it seems that they are going to use this to threaten the anonymity in the internet, which is what makes it great (typing to you from an account that I opened just to talk about psychedelics and prostate toys).
So my questions:
1) What shape do you think this will take in Europe
2) What alternatives do you think are the most practical to implement, without threatening our privacy, to avoid those under 14 to access porn, TikTok, Instagram and other harmful content? And no, relying on parents to supervise and apply on-device restrictions doesn’t work, either because many parents don’t know or just don’t care.
Thank you.
We're already seeing EU policymakers push to introduce legislation that requires the verification of people's ages to access online content, or go further and ban under 16s from social media in line with Australia's model. At a Member State level, countries are exploring more specific initiatives, such as France where a top court ruled that porn websites must check users’ ages.
These steps towards mandatory age verification undermine privacy, expression—rights that have been fully enshrined in EU law, including rights for young people through EU Commission guidelines under Article 28 of the Digital Services Act.
For alternatives: The issue of online safety is complex and will not be solved by throwing content behind an age gate, or by banning young people from social media. As we've been saying for many years, the harms that politicians are looking to solve require individual and specific solutions, such as tackling the recommender systems and algorithmic targeting that drives certain content at specific user groups. Tackling online safety must also have an offline component to ensure young people are educated around the harms of the online world and as equipped as possible to navigate social media. These are not easy solutions, but politicians must start looking into what is best, and not what is easy.
How can you protect yourselves out in public with cameras everywhere scanning your face, body and cars and tracking you wherever you go?
What do you think about Needemand's BorderAge solution which reportedly can protect privacy while assessing user's age, by analyzing user's hand gestures?
What realistic methods can a normal citizen do to resist for myself and resist in terms of the law itself?
Amazing work - what projects keep you from losing hope in today's cyberpunk dystopia? Technical or otherwise
What is the best way to convince other people to fight for their privacy and rights?
Dear EFFers, Please explain the 'right to exit' and how it can be implemented.
When this rolls out, what tactics and strategies can we do to bypass age verification?
Is there any sense that it is possible for verification processes to be completely secure? Or is the general idea that this is impossible
Is there any way to fight against already passed laws on the state level in the US? Specifically the ones forcing age verification on 18+ sites?
I am wondering if you're planning on working(or trying to work) with a broad spectrum of already established groups whether they be outside the two parties–political groups, apolitical community groups, workers and tenants unions, etc. If no, why since this is very political and every group of people will be affected; if yes, how do we aid in making those connections?
Could you create a strong petition against Chat Control and ID age verification on https://www.europarl.europa.eu/petitions/ ?
Is there any way to actually fight back against the age checking?
There are information about china also has age verification, but I find information about china age verification only succeeds only 23%. It’s true or not?
A lot of case of information data is leak by hackers in many places in the world. Will that evidence will prove and convince stubborn people (especially those who don’t understand technology) to believe that age verification is wrong? If not, then how we able to defeat age verification?
Did you guess see my last message
How do you handle conversations with people who fully acknowledge that the costs of age-verification are serious and will impact them, but who believe that the potential harms to children, especially of pornography, but to a lesser extent social media, truly outweigh the value of the privacy, safety and free expression gained via unfettered access to the internet?
I have found that entreating people to think of the privacy value for those more vulnerable than themselves does not tend to move them, because they view exposure-type harms to children as outweighing privacy and expression-type harms to adults in pretty much all cases (including safety). Additionally, I've found that mentioning the fact that studies about the harms of social media are mixed not only doesn't change their minds, but seems to actively harden their resolve (they correctly intuit that mixed results means their position can't be thoroughly refuted, and it seems extremely natural to them that they, not we, are the ones applying the Precautionary Principle, so it's a double-whammy rhetorical failure).
The closest to traction I've gotten so far is providing some thin/early evidence that kids don't actually lose any access to pornography, but simply switch over to illegal porn sites that are beyond the reach of our laws. Normal people seem legitimately freaked out by this, to a degree far greater than any other argument I've mustered. Do you know of solid/evocative evidence/stories emerging along these lines?
"Your rights end where the next one's start".
As an individual, I believe in the right to know, or to have the ability to check, the exact identity of someone pushing a particular message on me. I also believe that as a platform owner, I have the right to know the exact identity of persons seeking to use my platform.
I also believe in the right to provide anonymous platforms which are free of such mandates, for lawful and ethical uses.
As I see it, the largest challenge that we face as free society today, is the onslaught of propaganda from authoritarian states and other "bad faith" actors which takes various forms, but is almost always behind the mask of anonymity.
So my question is, how does EFF intend to balance the need for establishing a strong identity of individuals as well as the need of societies to protect their members against bad faith actors, against the need for privacy and free speech ?
I appreciate the effort that you guys are making towards our right to privacy. I do notice that a common issue with trying to outreach and garner support from people who generally indifferent or unconcern about current policies and politics surrounding privacy, or that the option to oppose such decisions exist. Do you have any advice for trying to outreach to these types of people?
Thanks for your question! We spoke a bit about how we think about this “privacy nihilism” argument in previous answers here and here.
In terms of outreach, we often hear things like: “why should I care about privacy when I don’t do anything wrong?” I personally try to answer this question by encouraging the person to think bigger. Try to find what moves them, and point out how privacy supports that particular community, hobby, or idea.
We also like to say that privacy is a team sport, so we should be thinking about our entire community when we put together a security plan.
After all, (nearly) everyone uses the internet. And while we think everyone should want to protect those specific communities that will be deeply harmed by the annihilation of online anonymity (like abortion-seekers, political dissidents, whistleblowers, survivors of abuse, and so on), it can sometimes help to point out that anonymity and privacy are not just abstract issues that protect other people! They are fundamental freedoms that maintain the internet’s status as a free, open, expressive place, and allow all of us to use it for whatever purpose we want—to connect with friends, share our art, practice our religions, organize protests, you name it.
In a world without privacy—where we have to pass over our IDs and biometrics in order to access online community—the internet will look a whole lot different. That affects every one of us, so we must keep fighting back.
Of course I find out about this two hours after it ends :/
We're here for another 50 minutes!
OMG 😭 Can I ask if there's any winning strategies out there to avoid being marked as a minor by the algorithms in the first place, so you don't have to verify your age? There might not be because they all use different algorithms but it might help in the meantime if there is
In your opinion, which parts of the world/countries are in the best direction when it comes to protection of privacy and free speech?
Is there advocacy happening at the Federal level for individual centered privacy rights, such as decentralized identity management (like EUDI wallet)?
Lol if they can verify age by using the federal government, I'm going to tell them to go ask them, because all of my stuff is on file.
What are the measures that you will take to fight against this infamy in the all the countries/zones that this is in effect?
This type of measures are not new but right now, there could be a "organized movement" to impose this, so what changed?
Thank you!
Hi EFF. How come you've been silent on various topics regarding rights and freedoms of software developers in the past decade or so? Also, do you ever answer replies on social media?
We speak up on everyone’s online freedoms every day, and that has always included people who make software. EFF was actually founded to support software developers in 1990.
Here are a few pages you might be interested in:
And of course, all of our work to protect creativity and innovation online. We’ve long fought to defend digital creators and inventors, and to protect and strengthen fair use, innovation, open access, net neutrality, and your freedom to tinker. https://www.eff.org/issues/innovation
Unfortunately you were totally quiet on issues like recent emulator lawsuits.
When will you being back those dope hoodies that had like the two light ing bolts and eagle? Can't remember exactly what it was but it was a zip up hoodie for around 65$ and I always wanted to grab one but you don't have it anymore :(
They were such a cool design! Our design team rocks. I’ve relayed the message, but for now, have you checked out our sick new green motherboard hoodie?
My question is, why do I have to be an assasin creed in a crowd to hide - when (whats about to come) is gonna make our very existance uploaded?
What about the founders of freedom in France and USA? What about the essential philosophers? The core of basic Human Rights? Where are they? Where are the deep philosophers of old who can describe the innate and inherent rights of man?
My real quation is, answer why its a fundamental human right to have privacy? Because innert and in my spine, this is what centuries lie upon to have an answer for - for sake of basic nature of man.
I want you to get back to those questions and answer em.
Ask us anything!
Anything gets asked.
Nothing gets answered.
I guess EFF has been silenced/ censored.
I love you guys, you do some really awesome work.
I just re-read your original post and can see the times you indicated you'd be giving answers.
I was half asleep when I made my comment.
Please accept my apology for my earlier thoughtless comment.
Did you read the part where it says they'll answer on 12/15?