I feel like people subconsciously try to transform them into real humans and then apply HEMA analysis to them or something. Knights > samurai is just obvious. But if we go by their actual media this is a silly match to me because Jin is a video game character in an absurd story where he is a ninja god that single-handedly wipes out bases full of soldiers and then duels their powerful leaders and kills them. Jaime is comparatively like, a really talented guy in a grounded low fantasy setting lol. Armor?? Jin has like 1,000 bodies bro. He’s an unreal demon that while surrounded by guys in mongol armor, with shields and polearms and arrows (talented mongol archers no less) will effortlessly cut down every dude while deflecting arrows with a sword. These are standard Jin “feats.” You think a character like this, who operates at a power fantasy level more akin to (beyond, really) someone like John Wick, is going to lose to someone from Jaime’s universe? I don’t know how people think combat works in the GoT world but it’s far from a video game.
Yup, the character in the more 'realistic' story is always at a disadvantage. Jaime is just a dude who is good with a sword.
He loses to most video game protagonists because they have hours playtime showing them, doing crazy things and he has a few book chapters where he ultimately loses, gets captured, then maimed, then retires from fighting.
Honestly Id say even Steve from minecraft no diffs him
Well put. Jaime has never shown anything close to clearing small armies solo. GoT is much more grounded combat wise (save for dragons and other supernatural beings). Different scales entirely. Jin stomps.
Yeah Jaime cut his way to Rob and then still gets overwhelmed by mooks, because it’s a grounded low fantasy universe. Meanwhile Jin cuts his way to the leader, then kills all the mooks and the leader lol. Then he does that like a dozen more times. There’s no real comparison. It’s a reasonable attempt at a real-adjacent person vs a ridiculous video game person that just barely carries the aesthetic of reality.
No1 seems to consider training and fighting styles aswell, Jaime is trained in Westerosi knight combat and tournaments, Jin isn’t a westerosi knight. That element alone throws fights very 1st strike wins. Simple as that
Video characters beat non video game characters 99% of the time. It’s just the nature of the medium. Even games with more grounded combat have protagonist with dozens, if not hundreds, of kills and near limitless stamina
To all the people saying Jaime would win because of gear difference, I highly doubt that matters. The longsword isn't all that much more effective against Ō-Yoroi (heavy scale and lamellar) armor than a katana against plate and chainmail. There's no doubt both are incredibly skilled warriors and I am in no way slandering my boy Jaime here. Jin is just far more skilled and has hax in form of Resolve skills like Heavenly Strike, healing and Dance of Wrath. Jaime is a more realistic, grounded sword master.
One thing to point out is you don’t have to use the pointy end of a long sword, you can use the cross guard or the pommel, whole not that useful is far more useful than a katana against heave armour.
At least based on the picture, his gear is much worse. His armor has massive gaps. He doesn't even have gauntlets. An opponent with half a brain will just cut his fingers off.
1v1 duel? Jamie Lannister takes it easily. The katana sucks when paired up against a longsword and heavy plate armour. Jamie would have an enormous reach advantage, too.
*Edit:* If Jin is actually a superhuman, then he wins 10/10 times.
jin can cleave through shields and Armor with a katana also if we take what we see in the show at face value, a white can get through a breast plate so jin can hundred percent do the same. in game soldiers literally describe him a 7ft tall demon. jamie stands no chance
You mean the armor Jamie has on in the image? The armor with a many many unprotected areas and that's more for show than it is for function?
Even when we see people like Arthur Dayne depicted in the show, the best swordsman to ever live in that setting (that were told about), and the man who was positioned to protect his Prince's lady, his armor is basically just for show given how much it actually covers him.
Historically when you're talking about just swords a longsword isnt much more effective against Lamellar than any other sword is against plate if you want to use irl logic and apply it to fiction.
In terms of actual combat we are comparing a basically superhuman dude who can get ambushed by 20 men and 10 mongolian archers and kill them all to someone who is well above average with a sword.
This isnt even considering bs Jin can do like the Heavenly strike which Jin learned by seeing it once btw, or casually deflect arrows, dodge point blank gunfire (believe the weapon was called a fire lance or something) or the dance of wrath.
Jin is a power fantasy superhuman video game character who defeated a mongolian invasion. Jaime is a good swordsman in a relatively grounded low fantasy setting.
I like Jin’s speed better, he parries arrows pretty well and if you want to push chainscaling the heavenly strike (a move with some weird supernatural implications in of itself) is a technique respected by Atsu in Ghost of Yotei who scales relative to several bosses capable of blocking bullets. He won’t be able to do anything to Lannister’s armor but targeting the gaps could work
Jin. He’s faster and has far more experience in combat. People say there’s the whole armor difference, but Jin isn’t exactly going to beat his Katana on that plate. Instead he’ll go for the weak spots, joints, armpit, neck, hands, and legs.
Forget the Samurai vs Knight debate, Jin Sakai can enter Mongol Camps and 1v30 without getting hit, while they use arrows, artillery, bombs, swords, spears etc.
Jamie is a monster and probably the best swordsman of his generation, but Jin is a force of nature with video game protagonist energy backing him up.
By virtue of being a hack and slash video game protagonist, Jin can wander into an enemy camp and 1v30 without taking a single hit. No tools, no narrow hallways, just skill and his sword.
One of Jamies biggest feat of skill were told is that he took on a bandit camp of about a dozen people when he was a young squire, by utilizing the cave they were using as a base against them by cutting off their options for retreat or ganging up on him.
Jamie's the man, and I'd argue the better written character, but because of the setting he exists in he's just not built for taking on someone like Jin.
Jaime is an extremely talented within the bounds of reasonable human ability swordsman. Jin has fucking magic sword moves from ancient myths. Even after removing all his other gear this isn’t a fair fight.
The show didn't really do it justice, but the first hand accounts from Robb's men who fought the Battle of Whispering Wood are pretty firm evidence that he's a holy terror.
he took out 12 of Robs men in an on going battle trying to get to Rob and he pretty much almost got to him before he got dog piled. Thats a confirmed event. id say taking out that many men in full armor while in battle is a pretty big feat.
We also don’t know how good at fighting these men were. It’s heavily implied that Jamie was a badass but sadly we don’t really know what peak Jamie was actually capable of since we didn’t see it. Itd be like if all we have about John Wick is his rep of what he used to be
.
they were good enough to be fighting near Rob the acting King of the North. not being able to see it and being given subtext is like fiction 101. And John Wicks Rep was also given with subtext to paint a picture as well.
Video game characters are difficult to scale because of the physics of a video game. Technically Ghost can fight holding a crazy amount of weight given game dynamics.
Just a generic battle the Knight is taking the Samurai 7/10 times. Knight has better armor, and a better weapon against armor. That's sword + armor and sword + armor only.
If it's sword only, it's 50/50. If it leans at all it leans to the Samurai.
If it's sword only it still leans towards the knight imo. The longsword has a lot more versatility and defensive capability compared to a katana due to the double edge, greater range, and the comparatively massive cross guard. It is still a fairly even fight that could go either way but the longsword eeks out a slight but noticeable advantage
Totally agree. Except I think the Katana is better at 1 v 1 combat with no armor. It’s better at 1 move than the long sword is at multiple moves. I think that specialization helps it in this exact scenario.
The one thing katanas do better than longsword is cutting, which the longsword is quite nearly just as good at. How does this give a definitive edge over the longsword user, who has more offensive and defensive options than the katana at any given time? Seems to me like in a fight with a lot of potential 1-touch kills, the guy who has more ways to get that kill AND more ways to defend against their opponent wins
Jin would beat the hell out of Jamie if he had all his explosive arrows, black powder bombs and smoke bombs. He's also physically a lot stronger given the size of the people he fights and how he can send people flying through a kick. He's also markedly faster -- able to zip between 3 people in the blink of an eye and block arrows. Jin's skills veer into the "in real life this would be supernatural/improbable" territory.
But Jamie has amazing skill, better armor and a sword that can pierce Jin's armor. Jamie would eventually win. There's nothing much that suggests Jin's Katana could cut through plate armor.
Without armor Jin would dance of wrath and cut him down after a good fight.
Jins katana cuts through so much shit it shouldn't be able to cut through in game though.
Jin clears this easily. Dude is a superhuman monster with speedster abilities.
He'll behead Jamie and then loot his corpse
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I feel like people subconsciously try to transform them into real humans and then apply HEMA analysis to them or something. Knights > samurai is just obvious. But if we go by their actual media this is a silly match to me because Jin is a video game character in an absurd story where he is a ninja god that single-handedly wipes out bases full of soldiers and then duels their powerful leaders and kills them. Jaime is comparatively like, a really talented guy in a grounded low fantasy setting lol. Armor?? Jin has like 1,000 bodies bro. He’s an unreal demon that while surrounded by guys in mongol armor, with shields and polearms and arrows (talented mongol archers no less) will effortlessly cut down every dude while deflecting arrows with a sword. These are standard Jin “feats.” You think a character like this, who operates at a power fantasy level more akin to (beyond, really) someone like John Wick, is going to lose to someone from Jaime’s universe? I don’t know how people think combat works in the GoT world but it’s far from a video game.
Yup, the character in the more 'realistic' story is always at a disadvantage. Jaime is just a dude who is good with a sword.
He loses to most video game protagonists because they have hours playtime showing them, doing crazy things and he has a few book chapters where he ultimately loses, gets captured, then maimed, then retires from fighting.
Honestly Id say even Steve from minecraft no diffs him
Netherite armor tanks dragon blast and tnt and shit
Real life sword is just gonna break when hitting them
Steve from minecraft no diffs alot of stuff I thought
Well put. Jaime has never shown anything close to clearing small armies solo. GoT is much more grounded combat wise (save for dragons and other supernatural beings). Different scales entirely. Jin stomps.
Tbf Jaime did cut his way through Robbs men, and made it all the way to him
I think in a fair fight Jaime may have a chance, but this is Jin we're talking about, he isn't going to fight fair.
Yeah Jaime cut his way to Rob and then still gets overwhelmed by mooks, because it’s a grounded low fantasy universe. Meanwhile Jin cuts his way to the leader, then kills all the mooks and the leader lol. Then he does that like a dozen more times. There’s no real comparison. It’s a reasonable attempt at a real-adjacent person vs a ridiculous video game person that just barely carries the aesthetic of reality.
Not even close. In a fair fight Jamie can cut through 10 men, an extremely impressive feat for sure (possibly overestimating him tbh)
Whilst being the victim of an ambush Jin can cut through 20 men and 10 archers.
Yes but Jin uses tools, I'm talking about I one on one just swords.
I agree Jin takes in 9 times outta ten, but as I mentioned one on one I don't think it's entirely one sided
No1 seems to consider training and fighting styles aswell, Jaime is trained in Westerosi knight combat and tournaments, Jin isn’t a westerosi knight. That element alone throws fights very 1st strike wins. Simple as that
You don't have to use Jin's tools to beat 30 men in Ghost
He gets clapped by most of the Kingsguard already
Video characters beat non video game characters 99% of the time. It’s just the nature of the medium. Even games with more grounded combat have protagonist with dozens, if not hundreds, of kills and near limitless stamina
To all the people saying Jaime would win because of gear difference, I highly doubt that matters. The longsword isn't all that much more effective against Ō-Yoroi (heavy scale and lamellar) armor than a katana against plate and chainmail. There's no doubt both are incredibly skilled warriors and I am in no way slandering my boy Jaime here. Jin is just far more skilled and has hax in form of Resolve skills like Heavenly Strike, healing and Dance of Wrath. Jaime is a more realistic, grounded sword master.
One thing to point out is you don’t have to use the pointy end of a long sword, you can use the cross guard or the pommel, whole not that useful is far more useful than a katana against heave armour.
At least based on the picture, his gear is much worse. His armor has massive gaps. He doesn't even have gauntlets. An opponent with half a brain will just cut his fingers off.
Jin all day
Ghost
White guy's armor is full of gaps. He gets his hands cut to pieces and then a sword through his cheek.
1v1 duel? Jamie Lannister takes it easily. The katana sucks when paired up against a longsword and heavy plate armour. Jamie would have an enormous reach advantage, too.
*Edit:* If Jin is actually a superhuman, then he wins 10/10 times.
But Jin has literal superhuman abilities and can slice and stab clean through Mongol armor
Too bad Jin statdiffs badly, he'd have Jamie blinded in an instant.
true but if jin slaughtering dozens of heavies in full armor simultaneously is any indication, no single swordsman is gonna be a match
Dozens of heavies in Mongolian lamellar armour. Westerosi plate armour is a different beast entirely.
jin can cleave through shields and Armor with a katana also if we take what we see in the show at face value, a white can get through a breast plate so jin can hundred percent do the same. in game soldiers literally describe him a 7ft tall demon. jamie stands no chance
You mean the armor Jamie has on in the image? The armor with a many many unprotected areas and that's more for show than it is for function?
Even when we see people like Arthur Dayne depicted in the show, the best swordsman to ever live in that setting (that were told about), and the man who was positioned to protect his Prince's lady, his armor is basically just for show given how much it actually covers him.
Historically when you're talking about just swords a longsword isnt much more effective against Lamellar than any other sword is against plate if you want to use irl logic and apply it to fiction.
In terms of actual combat we are comparing a basically superhuman dude who can get ambushed by 20 men and 10 mongolian archers and kill them all to someone who is well above average with a sword.
This isnt even considering bs Jin can do like the Heavenly strike which Jin learned by seeing it once btw, or casually deflect arrows, dodge point blank gunfire (believe the weapon was called a fire lance or something) or the dance of wrath.
Jin is a power fantasy superhuman video game character who defeated a mongolian invasion. Jaime is a good swordsman in a relatively grounded low fantasy setting.
Jin is stomping.
Yeah, I agree with you, and I've edited my original comment to reflect that.
I don't think historical accuracy matters here. Plate armor or lammelar doesn't work the same in franchise vs irl.
No. We use that move where Jin shows his blade and people falls. And then he kills them easily.
Jin IS a Speedster though. Jin easily takes this 1v1. Hell, give Jamie 20 more men and Jin still clears
Jamies movie Armour is not that good. Jin could easily finde a gab for sword.
Jamie has no gauntlets and gets his fingers cut off, based on the image. His ass is not wearing full plate LOL, he's dressed like a common mercenary.
Jin is also a literal superhuman
Jamie if they are all geared up.
BUT Ghost could pretty easily stealth kill him
I like Jin’s speed better, he parries arrows pretty well and if you want to push chainscaling the heavenly strike (a move with some weird supernatural implications in of itself) is a technique respected by Atsu in Ghost of Yotei who scales relative to several bosses capable of blocking bullets. He won’t be able to do anything to Lannister’s armor but targeting the gaps could work
Jin. He’s faster and has far more experience in combat. People say there’s the whole armor difference, but Jin isn’t exactly going to beat his Katana on that plate. Instead he’ll go for the weak spots, joints, armpit, neck, hands, and legs.
Jin Sakai ends all of the Kingsguard.
Forget the Samurai vs Knight debate, Jin Sakai can enter Mongol Camps and 1v30 without getting hit, while they use arrows, artillery, bombs, swords, spears etc.
Video game mechanics…
Jamie is a monster and probably the best swordsman of his generation, but Jin is a force of nature with video game protagonist energy backing him up.
By virtue of being a hack and slash video game protagonist, Jin can wander into an enemy camp and 1v30 without taking a single hit. No tools, no narrow hallways, just skill and his sword.
One of Jamies biggest feat of skill were told is that he took on a bandit camp of about a dozen people when he was a young squire, by utilizing the cave they were using as a base against them by cutting off their options for retreat or ganging up on him.
Jamie's the man, and I'd argue the better written character, but because of the setting he exists in he's just not built for taking on someone like Jin.
Jaime is an extremely talented within the bounds of reasonable human ability swordsman. Jin has fucking magic sword moves from ancient myths. Even after removing all his other gear this isn’t a fair fight.
Your thumbnail made me realize how much Jamie looks like the charming prince from shrek
Jin neg diff, people who haven't played GoT don't know how OP he is.
Purely 1v1 duel style? Jaime. Now if they have like 1 week to kill each other and dont know each other's location ill go with Jin.
Jin is under equipped and has less experience canonically. Gap in physique/weight class is massive too
We don’t actually know how good Lannister was only stories and it’s hard to tell how much if any they’ve been embellished
The show didn't really do it justice, but the first hand accounts from Robb's men who fought the Battle of Whispering Wood are pretty firm evidence that he's a holy terror.
he took out 12 of Robs men in an on going battle trying to get to Rob and he pretty much almost got to him before he got dog piled. Thats a confirmed event. id say taking out that many men in full armor while in battle is a pretty big feat.
Jin fights 20+ guys solo nearly every mission in the game, he single handedly kills hundreds of people in the span of a few weeks.
im not arguing if Jaime could win this fight. im arguing that we know how good of a fighter Jaime is.
We also don’t know how good at fighting these men were. It’s heavily implied that Jamie was a badass but sadly we don’t really know what peak Jamie was actually capable of since we didn’t see it. Itd be like if all we have about John Wick is his rep of what he used to be .
they were good enough to be fighting near Rob the acting King of the North. not being able to see it and being given subtext is like fiction 101. And John Wicks Rep was also given with subtext to paint a picture as well.
Ned didn’t seem to be a particularly outstanding swordsman
he held his own against Arther Dayne wtf are you talking about.
He was about to be killed by Dayne
The greatest swordsman in their known world
its like saying you lasted 14/15 rounds with Mike Tyson.
Jin is litterally superhuman he could beat him to death with the blunt force of his katana and easily deflect/disarm Jaime
Video game characters are difficult to scale because of the physics of a video game. Technically Ghost can fight holding a crazy amount of weight given game dynamics.
Just a generic battle the Knight is taking the Samurai 7/10 times. Knight has better armor, and a better weapon against armor. That's sword + armor and sword + armor only.
If it's sword only, it's 50/50. If it leans at all it leans to the Samurai.
If it's sword only it still leans towards the knight imo. The longsword has a lot more versatility and defensive capability compared to a katana due to the double edge, greater range, and the comparatively massive cross guard. It is still a fairly even fight that could go either way but the longsword eeks out a slight but noticeable advantage
Totally agree. Except I think the Katana is better at 1 v 1 combat with no armor. It’s better at 1 move than the long sword is at multiple moves. I think that specialization helps it in this exact scenario.
The one thing katanas do better than longsword is cutting, which the longsword is quite nearly just as good at. How does this give a definitive edge over the longsword user, who has more offensive and defensive options than the katana at any given time? Seems to me like in a fight with a lot of potential 1-touch kills, the guy who has more ways to get that kill AND more ways to defend against their opponent wins
Jin easily. Dudes got bombs and kunais and shit.
Sword only
If swords only, no armor the Jin takes it 6/10. If armored up, it's like. 9.5/10 Jaime
With armor? Jamie. With no Armor Jin.
Jin would beat the hell out of Jamie if he had all his explosive arrows, black powder bombs and smoke bombs. He's also physically a lot stronger given the size of the people he fights and how he can send people flying through a kick. He's also markedly faster -- able to zip between 3 people in the blink of an eye and block arrows. Jin's skills veer into the "in real life this would be supernatural/improbable" territory.
But Jamie has amazing skill, better armor and a sword that can pierce Jin's armor. Jamie would eventually win. There's nothing much that suggests Jin's Katana could cut through plate armor.
Without armor Jin would dance of wrath and cut him down after a good fight.
Jins katana cuts through so much shit it shouldn't be able to cut through in game though. Jin clears this easily. Dude is a superhuman monster with speedster abilities. He'll behead Jamie and then loot his corpse