Does it make sense to have distinct periods, like 12 weeks of a buildup with 8-12 reps, then 12 weeks of 4-6, then peaking? Or would it make more sense to always include heavy singles?
I’m a beginner but I noticed that when I don’t do singles, I lose that skill very fast. So even when I’m working with 60% intensity, I do some heavy triples as a top set before. But maybe that’s not the best approach and instead I should periodise my training properly
I think if you have a tendency to get very hyped for a top set it might benefit you to do a "fatigued" single/triple (so do the 3x8 and then the 1x3) so that you don't blow all your energy on that triple and then get lazy for the 3x8. But if not it's probably better doing it first as a bit of a primer and gauge of strength that day.
I agree with the other comment, but here is my take:
I personally do singles basically year round. I just did a very deep off season where I didn't do any singles for like 3 months, but that is abnormal for me. I use singles for the purposes of auto-regulation, not as like max testing or anything like that. Basically I do an RPE7-8.5 single, and use that single and RPE to gauge my strength for the day, and then use that to guide my set work.
The advantage is that its a fairly accurate way to gauge e1RM, and see those fluctuations and improvements over time - so for me I use a static target (RPE 7 during off-season, RPE8 in-season), and that gets loaded every week. This works for me because I don't have any emotional attachment to the result of that lift. If I hit 90%, cool. If I only hit 85% or normal... cool. It just means that I have something going on that is impacting my strength at the moment. Could be fatigue, sickness, outside stress, not enough carbs, etc. But something made that weight feel harder, and it allows me to adjust my session accordingly.
There are 2 other popular methods to ensure that you aren't getting emotionally burnt out by trying to arouse yourself for a top single every week. One is called wave-loading, where lets say you have a 4 week block. Week 1 you might hit an RPE6 single, week2 RPE7, week3 rpe8, and week 4 rpe9; and every few blocks you may even do an RPE10 week. This has some of the same advantages as my approach, but caters to people that really need to hype themselves up, or are emotionally invested in their singles, because it allows them to avoid getting to that high degree of arousal quite so frequently. Its also nice, because as your gains slow down over time, it allows you to set the expectation to be beating numbers from 4 weeks ago, rather than 1 week ago (i.e. maybe add 10lbs to your RPE6 from the previous block).
Another strategy is to do singles after your set work, called fatigue singles. This has some similar benefits to wave loading, because since you're doing your singles fatigued, you won't expect it to be in PR territory. It also gives you a good lower bound for what you can hit on a given day, even when fatigued. Some people even combine fatigue singles with wave loading.
So there are different approaches, and they all work for different people and for different reasons.
As far as dedicated blocks, that is definitely one approach that works pretty well. I personally don't usually go as high as 8-12 with competition lifts, but rather with close variations. Like I might do 10s on squat for tempo (diabolical), or for high bar squats , but not for my competition lift. Or I might do it for hack squats or leg press. But likewise, I won't do 10s for DL or bench, though I might approach 10s with something like touch and go or RDLs.
So I typically wave my main lifts like that where I might do a block of 5s, a block of 4s, and a block of 3s, particularly "in-season" approaching a competition. But another strategy is daily undulating periodization where maybe you have a day dedicated to triples, and a day dedicated to 8s. DUP seems to work about as well as classical block periodization.
If you're truly a beginner, I probably wouldn't worry too much about singles a lot of the time, and if you do maybe fatigue singles. I'd just worry about progressing something like 4s, 5s, or 6s as often as you can. Almost certainly if anything you need to worry more about adding muscle to your frame than to dialing in your 1 rep technique. With that said, I personally do most of my accessory work in much higher ranges; anywhere from 8s to 20s, often doing something like 3-5 sets with a rep range of like 10-15 or 12-20. My expectation is set 1 is close to the high end of the range, and my last set is close to the low end.
Also, I would say that generally speaking 60% is pretty low. I think a good lower bound most of the time for strength is 70%. I would save anything lower for non-competition lifts and hypertrophy focus in accessories (including like leg press). Heck, even 80%. I think that's just as true if you're relatively new and should still be expecting to eek out some novice progression.
Heavy singles are a skill that you lose fast but also regain fast. There's an argument for year round heavy singles and an argument for doing them only in a meet prep block, both are valid, depends what you find you respond best to. You just don't want them to detract from your working sets that actually make you stronger. If you don't get too hyped for them, you estimate your RPE reasonably accurately, and you have the extra few minutes to spend in the gym, it's fine to keep doing them.
I actually don't think periodization is very important as a training variable outside of peaking for a meet. You can just do similar set/rep ranges consistently throughout your off-season, progressively overloading as you get stronger, and deloading if you overshoot and get fatigued.
Be very careful of what you adapt to because it’s hard to unadapt.
I would just do a completely different program. Just absolutely polar opposite. You’ve been driving so much ridiculous volume, that you have no where to go. Back off, and resensitize your muscles by doing a lot less. I’d go so far as to say, do a 3 day/per week simple full body program, minimal. You need to completely deprogrammed for a couple months. You won’t get weaker if you do it right.
If someone responds well to a particular style of programming/training, going in the ‘opposite direction’ likely will not work.
I have some lifters who I coach who would die if I gave them my training volumes. Conversely, I have lifters who would do my workload and say ‘okay…when’s the season going to start?’
If they went in the opposite direction of what was working, they’d be spinning their wheels at best or getting injured at worst.
u/OzJack No reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater; alter the program to make it more time efficient/ have better training economy, and go from there.
It would depend on what you need as a lifter to keep progressing. I’m admittedly not familiar with nSuns so I can’t give much recommendations there, but I’d look into Wendler’s books like 531 Forever to get ideas on how to modify that aspect of the program. That may be enough to continue progression for you.
Yeah, it’s working really well doing the same thing. I know what you’re saying but doing the same thing since 2018? It’s time to back off.
There’s a possibility it doesn’t work that great overall. Sometimes doing something absolutely completely different will show you, “oh, I didn’t need tons of volume to get stronger.” Or, it will prove you right. Either way, that’s good feedback. Doing the same program since 2018 is crazy.
I know I’m driven by intensity over volume. But, that’s doesn’t mean I don’t tweak things or try new things. We also change as we age. Volume maybe worked when you’re 19. Now, you’re 35, and it doesn’t seem to drive the adaptions anymore. You gotta branch out.
I’d just go with a basic simple minimal program, like I said. Andy Baker has solid stuff that works. It’s very minimal though. Another idea is just go with a 531 template, but keep it simple.
If you find is not enough, you can add assistance. 531 isn’t a program, it’s a methodology. What you were using is part of 531. I think it came from Wendlers Spinal Tap template, then it was mixed together with a Sheiko program, I forget which one.
Debating on picking up JuggernautAI for a year using the discount. Anyone have experience running it for a year?
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I ran it a few years ago so I'm sure the app has seen some updates since then, but my experience + the general consensus is that it's mediocre. There are better free programs out there. The middle ground in between free program and a coach just doesn't have much good stuff in it from what I've seen and heard.
Does it make sense to have distinct periods, like 12 weeks of a buildup with 8-12 reps, then 12 weeks of 4-6, then peaking? Or would it make more sense to always include heavy singles?
I’m a beginner but I noticed that when I don’t do singles, I lose that skill very fast. So even when I’m working with 60% intensity, I do some heavy triples as a top set before. But maybe that’s not the best approach and instead I should periodise my training properly
I think if you have a tendency to get very hyped for a top set it might benefit you to do a "fatigued" single/triple (so do the 3x8 and then the 1x3) so that you don't blow all your energy on that triple and then get lazy for the 3x8. But if not it's probably better doing it first as a bit of a primer and gauge of strength that day.
I agree with the other comment, but here is my take:
I personally do singles basically year round. I just did a very deep off season where I didn't do any singles for like 3 months, but that is abnormal for me. I use singles for the purposes of auto-regulation, not as like max testing or anything like that. Basically I do an RPE7-8.5 single, and use that single and RPE to gauge my strength for the day, and then use that to guide my set work.
The advantage is that its a fairly accurate way to gauge e1RM, and see those fluctuations and improvements over time - so for me I use a static target (RPE 7 during off-season, RPE8 in-season), and that gets loaded every week. This works for me because I don't have any emotional attachment to the result of that lift. If I hit 90%, cool. If I only hit 85% or normal... cool. It just means that I have something going on that is impacting my strength at the moment. Could be fatigue, sickness, outside stress, not enough carbs, etc. But something made that weight feel harder, and it allows me to adjust my session accordingly.
There are 2 other popular methods to ensure that you aren't getting emotionally burnt out by trying to arouse yourself for a top single every week. One is called wave-loading, where lets say you have a 4 week block. Week 1 you might hit an RPE6 single, week2 RPE7, week3 rpe8, and week 4 rpe9; and every few blocks you may even do an RPE10 week. This has some of the same advantages as my approach, but caters to people that really need to hype themselves up, or are emotionally invested in their singles, because it allows them to avoid getting to that high degree of arousal quite so frequently. Its also nice, because as your gains slow down over time, it allows you to set the expectation to be beating numbers from 4 weeks ago, rather than 1 week ago (i.e. maybe add 10lbs to your RPE6 from the previous block).
Another strategy is to do singles after your set work, called fatigue singles. This has some similar benefits to wave loading, because since you're doing your singles fatigued, you won't expect it to be in PR territory. It also gives you a good lower bound for what you can hit on a given day, even when fatigued. Some people even combine fatigue singles with wave loading.
So there are different approaches, and they all work for different people and for different reasons.
As far as dedicated blocks, that is definitely one approach that works pretty well. I personally don't usually go as high as 8-12 with competition lifts, but rather with close variations. Like I might do 10s on squat for tempo (diabolical), or for high bar squats , but not for my competition lift. Or I might do it for hack squats or leg press. But likewise, I won't do 10s for DL or bench, though I might approach 10s with something like touch and go or RDLs.
So I typically wave my main lifts like that where I might do a block of 5s, a block of 4s, and a block of 3s, particularly "in-season" approaching a competition. But another strategy is daily undulating periodization where maybe you have a day dedicated to triples, and a day dedicated to 8s. DUP seems to work about as well as classical block periodization.
If you're truly a beginner, I probably wouldn't worry too much about singles a lot of the time, and if you do maybe fatigue singles. I'd just worry about progressing something like 4s, 5s, or 6s as often as you can. Almost certainly if anything you need to worry more about adding muscle to your frame than to dialing in your 1 rep technique. With that said, I personally do most of my accessory work in much higher ranges; anywhere from 8s to 20s, often doing something like 3-5 sets with a rep range of like 10-15 or 12-20. My expectation is set 1 is close to the high end of the range, and my last set is close to the low end.
Also, I would say that generally speaking 60% is pretty low. I think a good lower bound most of the time for strength is 70%. I would save anything lower for non-competition lifts and hypertrophy focus in accessories (including like leg press). Heck, even 80%. I think that's just as true if you're relatively new and should still be expecting to eek out some novice progression.
Very detailed and helpful explanation. Thank you very much. You’re right, at this point I need to focus on building strength and not my 1rm
Heavy singles are a skill that you lose fast but also regain fast. There's an argument for year round heavy singles and an argument for doing them only in a meet prep block, both are valid, depends what you find you respond best to. You just don't want them to detract from your working sets that actually make you stronger. If you don't get too hyped for them, you estimate your RPE reasonably accurately, and you have the extra few minutes to spend in the gym, it's fine to keep doing them.
I actually don't think periodization is very important as a training variable outside of peaking for a meet. You can just do similar set/rep ranges consistently throughout your off-season, progressively overloading as you get stronger, and deloading if you overshoot and get fatigued.
Good advice. Thank you!
I’ve been running nSuns for almost my entire lifting life, since 2018. I’m at my plateau now it seems.
32M, 80Kg bodyweight.
Recent 1RM plateaus:
How do I break through this plateau without spending two hours in the gym five days a week?
Be very careful of what you adapt to because it’s hard to unadapt.
I would just do a completely different program. Just absolutely polar opposite. You’ve been driving so much ridiculous volume, that you have no where to go. Back off, and resensitize your muscles by doing a lot less. I’d go so far as to say, do a 3 day/per week simple full body program, minimal. You need to completely deprogrammed for a couple months. You won’t get weaker if you do it right.
If someone responds well to a particular style of programming/training, going in the ‘opposite direction’ likely will not work.
I have some lifters who I coach who would die if I gave them my training volumes. Conversely, I have lifters who would do my workload and say ‘okay…when’s the season going to start?’
If they went in the opposite direction of what was working, they’d be spinning their wheels at best or getting injured at worst.
u/OzJack No reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater; alter the program to make it more time efficient/ have better training economy, and go from there.
How do I alter the program?
When cutting, I do 5/3/1 for the main lift, and then 3 sets of 8 reps for the secondary lifts of nSuns. I keep the accessories the same.
I've been considering getting on a different program considering I'm not a beginner or amateur anymore.
It would depend on what you need as a lifter to keep progressing. I’m admittedly not familiar with nSuns so I can’t give much recommendations there, but I’d look into Wendler’s books like 531 Forever to get ideas on how to modify that aspect of the program. That may be enough to continue progression for you.
Yeah, it’s working really well doing the same thing. I know what you’re saying but doing the same thing since 2018? It’s time to back off.
There’s a possibility it doesn’t work that great overall. Sometimes doing something absolutely completely different will show you, “oh, I didn’t need tons of volume to get stronger.” Or, it will prove you right. Either way, that’s good feedback. Doing the same program since 2018 is crazy.
I know I’m driven by intensity over volume. But, that’s doesn’t mean I don’t tweak things or try new things. We also change as we age. Volume maybe worked when you’re 19. Now, you’re 35, and it doesn’t seem to drive the adaptions anymore. You gotta branch out.
What would be a good program to try? I've been considering a different program to nSuns considering I've been running it so long.
I’d just go with a basic simple minimal program, like I said. Andy Baker has solid stuff that works. It’s very minimal though. Another idea is just go with a 531 template, but keep it simple.
If you find is not enough, you can add assistance. 531 isn’t a program, it’s a methodology. What you were using is part of 531. I think it came from Wendlers Spinal Tap template, then it was mixed together with a Sheiko program, I forget which one.
So, going with a 531 template would make sense.
Thank you. I'll find another 531 to try.
Debating on picking up JuggernautAI for a year using the discount. Anyone have experience running it for a year?
50% off your first month Code: NEWYOUMONTHLY 👉 Get The Deal Here or $50 off a yearly subscription — locked in forever Code: NEWYOUYEARLY 👉 Get The Deal Here
I ran it a few years ago so I'm sure the app has seen some updates since then, but my experience + the general consensus is that it's mediocre. There are better free programs out there. The middle ground in between free program and a coach just doesn't have much good stuff in it from what I've seen and heard.
Just hire a coach
Pretty sure a coach is a lot more than $17.50
Yeah well you get what you pay for.