A small moment that stood out to me— I think it was very telling during Carol and Zosia’s discussion about Zosia’s former partner or lover from before the joining, when Carol used “they/them” pronouns to ask about the person, Zosia used them back. For Carol, especially as an LGBTQ person herself, this is just courteous “not to assume” language. But unless Zosia’s partner was specifically a nonbinary or transgender person, my hunch is that Zosia chose to use those pronouns in her response because her partner was a man, Zosia was not gay, and Zosia suspects it would upset Carol to learn that she was not gay. Part of me wishes this dialogue played out further and we got to see Carol consider how she felt about it, but perhaps this is better left as a tangential train of thought and not a main focus of the series, since any issues of consent in these given circumstances are very complicated to think about, especially since we don’t have answers yet about whether or not the individual still exists within the hive at all.
https://preview.redd.it/hg3nkxnkd99g1.jpeg?width=1320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=372fc4750e3b24289189686f50a9c28d95fdd9f3
i understand it so well. you have something that you think is beautiful but only valuable to you if it's true. but you can't fully get rid of the itch that it's a delusion, so something occurs to you that needs to be checked. this can be gotten rid of for good but it's tricky, in carol's instance it would take unjoining zosia.
been through this kinda stuff recently (kinda ongoing tbh).
In a recent interview, Rhea said in her portrayal of Carol during scenes with Helen, she doesn't allow herself to feel genuine happiness throughout their relationship, something like she's always waiting for the ball to drop. It makes even more sense now that she was hesitant to talk about real!Zosia's sexuality when those two weeks with her was the only time she's felt happiness (however fake its grounding was).
I love that they didn’t make her and Helen’s relationship perfect. We get lots of hints at tension between them - Helen’s insistence on driving in the first episode, the motion sensor in the liquor cabinet - if Carol’s experience in that relationship was fear that she was maybe more in love with Helen than Helen was with her and she was afraid, a little, that Helen would leave, it explains so much about her. How she stays on guard, how she’s sort of defiantly prickly because it keeps her safe. If that’s her experience with the one person she allowed herself to love, ever, then it explains why she’d accept the compromise of pretending with the hive - she’s got a lot of experience at pushing down doubts.
I think some of that also plays into the conversion camp thing. It’s one thing to put on the bravado and say you just hated those people, but man, when everyone in your world tells you there’s something fundamentally wrong with you at that formative an age? It sticks with you. It makes you doubt yourself, accept less because you think it’s all you can get, never totally trust anything or anyone but be willing to pretend for anything that’s close enough.
Man. Carol is so much lonelier than even the hive could ever make her.
The conversion therapy camp definitely plays a part in how she loves and lets herself be loved. If her mother, someone who's supposed to love her unconditionally, can do that to her, it's set in her brain that even people who love you will hurt you.
One of my very good friends was sent to conversion camp three separate times before he was able to leave home. They sent him for the last time AFTER they found him hanging in his closet close to death shortly after returning from the second stay.
He is an incredibly smart, kind and successful man now, living far away from all of that for nearly three decades, but he's also one of the most guarded and cynical people I know.
And even more than that, Carol’s characterization of a traumatized person is spot on. She is afraid to open up with Helen, even though Helen is a genuine partner. She cares about Carol deeply including her drinking, she wants her to find her happiness in her hobbies, and she has her own thoughts and feelings. Not to mention that she literally takes care of Carol in some aspects. That kind of genuine love is scary to Carol.
And here comes Zosia, a perfect blank slate that will do and say whatever Carol wants. The opposite of scary and genuine. That’s where Carol finally finds artificial “happiness,” but the fear of reality is always nagging in the background.
I think some of that is that Carol gets the “rules” when it comes to the hive. Don’t lose your temper, don’t ask questions you don’t want the answers to, and they’ll give you literally anything you want. Want some heroin, the most beautiful woman in the world, and a nuke? Sure. As long as you stay out of the way.
That’s not love, of course, but it is predictable in a way that loving another person isn’t. If you’re sort of bone-deep fearful that you’re not worthy of love…I get it. But ultimately it’s hollow. As scary as the real thing is it’s genuine in a way the hive can never replicate.
100%. Loving a real human, regardless of how genuine it is, will always come with risks. Zosia is the ultimate risk-free experience.
Well, until they essentially kill you. That sobered her up quickly.
That's an astute trauma behaviour observation on her part.
That’s the part that’s most devastating to me as someone living with mental illness. I’m not sure people who don’t will fully grasp how fucking awful it is to only experience true joy for a maximum of 30 minutes before the dreaded thought emerges: “When’s the next bad thing going to happen to ruin this feeling?” You can still feel happy after pushing the thought away but from that point onward it’s tainted.
I always feel that way. I thought everyone felt this way. I didn’t know it could be different.
It's a testament to Vince's writing that they can make great observations like this about their characters.
Reminds me of the "ignorance is bliss" scene of the matrix.
i can't really wrap my head around that personally. if i had any indication that the life i was living was a sham, it would gnaw at me. ya girl's got issues though so it could just be that.
I think that probably also happened to Carol, she did end up asking the hive mind about her worries. She probably was in a denial period. Denial is the most predictable of all human responses after all (matrix again).
yeah no, you don't. lol
What was this from?
https://www.thedailybeast.com/obsessed/pluribus-star-rhea-seehorn-breaks-down-epic-season-finale-bombshells/
I think Carol didn't want to ruin her own delusion. She knows she was straight.
If Zosia's partner had been a woman, the plurbs would have offered that information.
Carol understands them well enough to know that.
She was actively deceiving herself into thinking she was (a) talking to Zosia and (b) she was special to the hive. It was heartbreaking when she had to realize that they were they and not she, and the love she was feeling was not special.
Yup
I honestly didn’t understand why she stayed with Zosia after Zosia/they straight up told her that they loved Manousos the same way/level at which they love Carol.
Idk how much more explicit they could make it that they don’t have any type of special relationship. And idk how Carol could continue to delude herself after hearing it so point blank.
Polish pussy got her acting unwise
Many such cases
Because she lost everything overnight…
Reminds me of that movie with the mustache guy who e-dated an AI that was also e-dating 8000 other dudes at the same time.
Her?
She was incredibly lonely and had been love bombed by the hive. She wanted it to be real. I wanted it to be real as an audience member even knowing it wasn’t, I wanted those two to be together. If that was a real situation and it happened to me I can’t pretend I wouldn’t just want to feel loved and desired also
It’s… pretty easy
See? <waves arm in general direction of humanity at large>
Denial probably, she knew, but she wasn't ready to accept it.
She simply wanted to believe it, so she ignored all the glaring evidence to the contrary. I mean, not to bring politics into it, but there’s a particular individual who a lot of people deny very obvious and damning information about because they have invested so much of themselves into said individual. I think we all know who I’m talking about
The same thing happened with Diabete. Zosia had no problem with leaving Carol to be with Diabete. To The Hive it didn’t matter which individual body was with either Carol or Diabete.
I think that’s right, and I think it says a lot about her character that she’s willing to make that choice. Just as she wasn’t interested in joining back up with Manousos until she specifically was in danger.
This is exactly what happened, she could have asked anything to find out and she purposely avoided it
For sure. And someone pointed out yesterday that there's a huge morality issue if Zosia's identity can be restored. Carol would be participating in this usage of Zosia's body without her permission. And Carol is not ready to be reminded of that fact.
If people retain any memories after leaving the Hive, I wonder if her take on sexuality will be different considering the Hive is every flavor of sexuality for both genders, she’ll have experienced it all.
I don’t think the plurbs have a sexuality honestly.
They’re just manipulative enough to know it would work.
In the same way they gave the girl that turned family support to trick her.
I don't believe the Plurb Mind (singular) has a human sexuality, but I think its affection for humans is genuine, and I think it enjoys having sex with humans via its constituent human bodies in precisely the same way it enjoys its constituent human bodies getting massaged.
Basically, to the extent that we have the terminology to describe the Plurb Mind's feelings on the matter, it's passively pansexual.
I’m not convinced that it was telling the truth about feeling the massage honestly.
But I’m off the opinion that it’s lying about not being able to lie.
So who knows.
For me the Plurbs are a metaphor for cults and just as they are hard to get out of, being in one and getting out teaches a person a lot about themselves because of those experiences. So assuming someone can be disconnected, so to speak, I think that's the way they'll go about it.
I’ve never thought about it before, but gender is now meaningless for the hive . They’re all of the genders all the time, of course it wouldn’t matter to them.
Carol seems smart enough to not assume Zosia was a lesbian.
which makes it doubly iffy because in her head she'd be doing the same thing to someone else that conversion camp tried to do to her. obviously it's not the same/there are some nuances, but from her POV i'm sure she is thinking about the fact that she is potentially making a person who used to be one way something else.
No. The collective now inhabits Zosia's body. I rewatched the scene where Zosia and Carol first met, and Carol compared the book cover of "Raban" to Zosia. Carol knew they had put Zosia there to appeal to her. Zosia even tells her that, that they thought Zosia was someone she would like. I don't think Carol was converting anyone to anything. She was falling in love with a virus, an infected, and Episode 9 just brought that into focus after her romantic dalliance.
True, but I feel like part of her might question, “Well, they’re eager to please me and know I’m a lesbian, so maybe part of why they chose Zosia as my companion is because she was a lesbian too.”
The Pluribus chose Zosia because of her resemblance to the Raban illustration on a Wycaro novel's book jacket. They found her, had her fly herself to Albuquerque, shower, and put her through hair, makeup, and wardrobe. The original Zosia's preferences are gone, and irrelevant anyway.
Statistically, it's somewhat more likely that one of Diabaté's companions would be other than straight. The Pluribus chose and provided them like they did Zosia for Carol, by knowing what he'd like, from James Bond movies to his Pornhub visits.
Wait, they can see my browser history
Yes - if all they needed was an attractive lesbian I'm sure they could find one much closer than Morocco. Zosia was picked for her resemblance to Raban, not for any other reason.
My bet is that Zosia is hetero, but I would imagine they'd be able to find a lesbian or bi/pan woman that resembled Raban if they cared.
But also the Hive seems smart enough to actually send a lesbian. Surely there's one that looks like Raban
Lesbians watching this show: if zosia’s straight when they unplurb her, we should all have a cathartic plurb seizure together
Yes. She feels very lesbian to me but...may not be.
She’s channeling Helen so yeah.
Notice how Kusimayu's village felt like a actual vibrant city when she was separate. The chanting, the smiling, allowing animals to be kept in a pen after they freed everything from zoos. The moment they confirm she's joined they're silent, no emotion, they all just walk away with the task at hand done
They know how to project what people want after nearly 70 days catering to a select few of them. They have dozens, maybe even thousands, of people in there who all interacted with Carol in some form. They know exactly what she wants to see in Zosia
As hard as it was to watch that scene, I think that's why that was there. We the audience needed to see that this is what the Hive is, and that what Zosia is doing is a direct parallel to what the people of the village were doing.
They also have the experiences in their data banks of every living lesbian in the world on joining day except one. The Plurb Mind was not going to struggle to portray a convincing lesbian.
I felt genuinely sick watching Kusimayu open the gate to let out the animals. And then the baby following her. ENOUGH
She can seem any way the hive needs her too. They have all the information they need to “spoof” any particular type of human.
Agreed. I want them to be together unplurbed because I love the characters, and the actors have great chemistry. It would also suck so bad to have one of the biggest sapphic representations on TV right now devolve into a “just kidding, one of them only liked women because she was infected.” Statistically, that would be the case irl but it would be so shitty.
I’m hanging onto the hope that the plurbs picked someone queer even though I know Zosia was chosen based on her appearance/ resemblance to Carols dream woman.
I think Carol is, and will always be, one of the best lesbian representations on TV.
But it is imperative for you to realize that there is no Zosia. We have never met Zosia. Her brain was consumed by an alien hive mind that now possesses her body. Carol has just had a love affair with the alien hive mind, which appears to be most accurately described as pansexual.
Thank you. This is not the sapphic love story I want. It’s fun as a horror story, though. Nothing romantic whatsoever.
"One of the greatest sapphic reps right now", I know hollywood SUCKS with queer rep to a point this may feel like it in a huge desert, but is a woman preying on a hive mind that took over people's bodies and cant say no to any sexual advance really representation😭🙏
I agree with your general point here, but I don't think the hive mind is being preyed upon. It predatorily consumed the brains of nearly all of humanity. Carol is in a consensual relationship with a hive mind, not a non-consensual relationship with a person who used to exist named Zosia.
I did word myself incorrectly, the victims are the people of which the bodies are being used by the hive
Your description is great I agree. The consentual relationship is with this hive mind, relationship in turn relies on the non-consentual relationship with the people whose bodies are being used.
Totally agreed. There was certainly an act of non-consent at the time of the joining, and the question becomes whether there is a continuing relationship of non-consent between the hive mind and its constituent minds, or whether at a certain point, ethically speaking, we should consider the constituent minds "digested" and start treating the hive mind as the only "person" involved.
I think what we see in the initial conflict between Carol and Manousos is that the longer the hive mind sticks around, the more the ethical pressure mounts to treat the hive mind as a person, not an infection.
And then of course when it's revealed that the hive mind has no intention of letting Carol live, that ethical pressure eases and we're back to treating the hive mind as, if not an infection, a hostile person with whom Carol is at war.
"Carol is in a consensual relationship with a hive mind, not a non-consensual relationship with a person who used to exist named Zosia."
The hoops people will jump through is crazy.
I guess it comes down to do you believe in body autonomy or not. To me having sex with a plurb is no different than having sex with someone who has been drugged or too much to drink, or are in a coma. If it not ok to have sex with someone under those circumstances than it she as hell isn't when a "virus" has taken all agency away from the individual.
I think analogy is dangerous, because a plurbed person isn't drugged or in a coma: their mind is gone. It has been replaced by a mind from another species. They haven't "lost agency", they've effectively suffered brain death, and a different person is now in charge of that body. That person is the hive mind.
The moral question is IMHO whether that process will be reversed. The more likely you consider it that it will be, the less ethical it becomes to have sex with (etc.) a plurbed body. But, the more likely you believe it to be that the plurbing is permanent, the more it becomes necessary to reconcile that you are dealing with a new person: the hive mind.
In the latter case, refusing to accept that, as Manousos doesn't, increases the risk that you are unethically traumatizing the new person that you're now dealing with.
"their mind is gone. It has been replaced by a mind from another species"
I think you're making a pretty big assumption, especially considering the show has told us they are still in there and it can be reversed, at least the people in the show consider this to be the case.
Their memories are "in there", but "there" is the neural network of the hive mind. At least for now, they have no mind of their own, their body is a constituent part of the hive mind's organism. They have about the same level of personhood as a muscle cell in your calf.
That can be reversed, but right now their mind is gone.
Again you are making a really big assumption. We have no idea if that is the case or if it more of a Get Out the sunken place situation. Where the person can see and feel everything happening to them but just have no control over their body.
Fair enough, I concede that that is a legitimate possibility. I would simply note that there is currently no evidence to support it.
The only evidence available to us is that to whatever extent the host body's mind still exists, it's overwhelmingly happy.
Non-native english speaker here. I interpreted the "them" as plural. German translation also uses "ihnen", as in 3rd person plural.
In English this what queer folks call the "pronoun game" it's a way to dance around or obfuscate revealing the gender of your partner.
often it's played by not using pronouns at all. "my partner and I went hiking last week" - that sort of thing.
Which is kinda funny because since straight people don't need to play the pronoun game, you automatically out yourself when playing the pronoun game.
Absolutely, which is basically what happened here. As a closeted lesbian, Carol more than anybody would know about the pronoun game, and immediately clocked (to her heartbreak) the pronoun pussy-footing the Plurb Mind was engaging in.
Does German have an exact English counterpart, where there’s a non-gendered singular third-person pronoun? I’m thinking maybe they prioritized non-gendered over singular to keep the subtext of her wanting to ignore the likelihood it was a man.
There is not. There is the equivalent of "it" but you wouldn't use that on a person.
They/them is interchangeable with he/her/she/him in English. They/them is just gender neutral.
She intentionally kept it vague to feel out how Zosia/the hive would frame it. Tenuously curious but not wanting total confirmation
If Carol really wanted to know if Zosia was into women, she would have asked her outright. I think she knew the likelihood of that was pretty low. I wonder how long she would have kept up this delusional state if she hadn't found out about the eggs? At some point, I think it would all just seem very fake and manufactured.
Zosia doesn't exist. The history of the body that happens to be used to manipulate Carol is irrelevant.
When they answer questions like that it's pure manipulation.
Still thinking about how we pointedly saw Carol reading The Left Hand of Darkness right prior to this scene. I don't want to spoil much but sexual identity and societal norms are huge themes in that novel that could certainly speak to the relationship between Carol & Zosia, where they've been & where it might go from here.
This is especially pertinent if Zosia were to get de-hived. The possible convergence of who she was before + whatever consciousness she possessed during hive life, etc. could be really fascinating.
Carol started the convo by saying “them”. This is because she didn’t want to reveal that Zosia was straight previously. Zosia picked up on this and kept the vagueness going for that reason. Subtle but obvious.
Since this show is, to me, obviously a horror movie that many redditors aren't seeing that way... I like to imagine that the real person is alive and conscious inside of their puppeted body, in constant emotional agony as their face is placed into a smile and their bodies walk around gathering windfall and doing laundry without their permission. A coma, so to speak.
FYI, the term you’re looking for isn’t “coma,” in which there is a lack of awareness. Much closer to “locked-in syndrome,” in which a stroke causes a person to be fully conscious and coherent and have no motor control whatsoever—to be “locked into” their own body.
Many comatose individuals report awareness of their surroundings
If it turns out to be true that she is somewhere in there, it would make Carol a rapist. I wonder if the show will ever address that aspect.
I bet a future episode will involve Zosia unlinking from the others and remembering it all and telling Carol that she is actually straight wasn't cool any of this that happened to her.
Zosia unlinking would bring up the topic of consent. I haven’t seen that discussed much.
Tbh, as a straight woman, if my body was pimped out by plurbs, I'd rather it be to a lesbian than a random guy. Of course no one is even better, but I definitely wouldn't wish that they paired me up according to my sexuality, considering what it entails.
The problem is as a blurb you have access to the memory of every single sexual encounter every human alive has ever had
Yeah but they didn't happen to my body. And I'd have to live in my body if I was unplurbed later.
Also they don't seem to feel other bodies directly, just have knowledge about what those bodies feel in great detail. During massage Zosia said her massage feels good, but she doesn't feel the pain of the guy in Bulgaria being impaled in that moment.
Why though. Her part is done. It’s hard to see Carol ever trusting her again. Yeah she’s Carols Chaperone but still Carols gonna be feeling like a fool. Unless she uses the lingering feelings excuse to lure Zosia so they can experiment on her, given the hive is going nowhere near Albuquerque with Monosous and the bomb there.
Just in a sense that Zosia’s storyline has to go somewhere I fully expect her to be the first unplurbed. Carol would be insane to trust her again as a part of the hive, but I’m interested to see them get to know each other as people when we meet real Zosia
Zosia could’ve been straight, Zosia also could’ve been a closeted lesbian. I feel it could’ve been either or (or a range of other things) considering the vague dialogue.
I’d argue everyone in that room knew the answer so that’s why Carol didn’t ask lol
It is completely irrelevant. She was chosen because she resembled Raban. They then did her hair and a makeover to look exactly like Raban. Her pre joining preferences are 100% irrelevant.
Why do you think the choices are closeted or straight. Why is openly gay not an option in your mind? You know people are often openly gay right? Or openly bi?
Statistically, it's most likely she was straight.
If we assume she was telling the truth about gdansk, she would have a very harsh upbringing to push against like Carol, if she was gay or bi. Not only is poland a very catholic, rigidly catholic, place, ussr contentious gdansk had a lot of movement and instability layered over a communist like mindset. Her background in childhood would be crazy with a unstable rapidly changing movement for freedom that was already built on a bad foundational environment. I dont think it would be safe for her to come out, and that typically stays with you. Carol is not out publicly because of her past, I think it would be the same for Zosia if she was lgbt.
I’m bisexual, so yes I do know. I wrote “or a range of other things” to cover all bases :)
Was a very strange comment.
I suggested closeted because perhaps that’s why the dialogue ran vague. It wasn’t meant to be offensive.
Carol.was vague because she didn't want to know.
Zosia was vague to not upset her. There is no reason the hive would care if Zosia stays closeted.
I’m very sorry you were bothered by my comment. I don’t know what else to say lol. Have a good day.
They said “or a range of things”. Also why are you reasoning statistically about fiction? The story goes where the writers take it
The story takes place on earth in our world. Statistically, more people are straight than queer. It's just a fact.
It's not complicated. The person obviously cannot give consent after having been infected with a bioweapon that causes them to be incapable of refusing requests and makes them act in ways they never would have before being infected.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought that! It definitely would have been good to see how Carol felt about that. Zosia clearly wasn’t gay by the way she gave her answer. It was probably illegal in the country where she came from anyway!
I would assume the entire hive is pansexual
right but they're talking about zosia before the hive.
You're right. I suppose the question is if it really matters since 'Zosia' is now 'pansexual'. I like how blurry the lines are in this show.
It is 100% irrelevant. She was chosen to be Carol's guide because she looks like Raban.
Plurb Zosia already had the memories of having sex with Carol as every partner who ever had sex with her.
So I don’t thing as a plurb it really matters. Even if you don’t have sex with them you’ve already had sex with them from their perspective.
It’s such a weird concept.
"I suppose the question is if it really matters since 'Zosia' is now 'pansexual'"
No she is not.
The lines aren't blurry at all if someone was given a drug so that they would do thing that they would never do in their right mind, you would never say that it didn't matter.
That is exactly what the "virus" is, it takes all agency away from the individual.
If everyone in the hive wants to bang Carol, does the hive not have the agency to do so?
No..... there is a reason that having sex with someone under the influence is still considered rape even if they were a will participant.
Something more closely related whould be someone with alzheimer's or other brian illnesses. You would be a monster to use such an illnesses to take advantage of someone.
I fully agree. I just think it depends on if you view the virus as a body snatcher with it's own motives or if you view it as a tool that allows all of humanity to communicate telepathically and thus align themselves with the same goals. (I haven't seen the season finale so I'm not sure if it's addressed)
Tbh I don’t think this will be part of the plot. For one, there are billions of people the hive could have sent carol. Zosia is not the only one in the world who looks like a genderbent version of Raban, they could have sent her someone queer. This seems like an artificial limitation of the plot.
I think the plot will def have a roadblock for both of them, like carol grappling with the manipulation and differences between hive zosia, real zosia and Helen, and zosia dealing with the fallout of being unplurbed. But I don’t think they’re gonna arrest the romance by making real zosia straight.
Nah, the hive is more akin to asexual with manipulative tendencies, they cant bond with anyone.
This.
More like asexual. I don’t think the hive has any motive to create more humans. Rather they are taking steps to reduce population
I was going to say the same, as a collective they would have every base covered.
Welp, Carol still have no shame about being a rapist. She might have sex with Zosia but the owner of the body cant consent.
The first time we see Zosia she's clearing body in Morocco, a place where any gay act can land you three years in jail - so not a particularly popular tourist destination for lesbians.
Zosia’s partner was a man, and Zosia is not a lesbian. They were dancing around he/him pronouns because Carol wants to believe that what she has with Zosia is real, and Zosia/the Hive was using they/them to avoid displeasing Carol.
Carol kinda seemed to only care if he spoke to the give via zosia , I don’t know man maybe I see it wrong but for me it felt like an ownership of zosia cos she knows he’s gonna speak to the same entity in another body. I guess though she been snapped out of her delusion n back to reality
It set her up to ask different questions that didn't threaten her self image as a moral person by shifting that failing to Zosia. And they split up ten minutes later.
Some people here are kind of following Carol in the personafication of "Zosia". There's no Carol x Zosia romance.
This is something Carol has given in to in a way to make herself forget of the situation, to, to put in words, "live out the good that came of this, and ignore the technical bad". And she went on this journey until the Hive told her that, yes, we can and are in the process of making stem cells from material already available to us. You will be forcefully joined. We dont care about your consent. And that woke Carol back up. Shit was real. She got back to the fight.
In reality, it was just the Hive using Zosia's body as a vessel to sexually please Carol. Just like the French guy used a whole army of people's bodies to sexually please himself...including Zosia (or he wanted to but never did? Cant remember). In other words, the Hive doesnt see the sexuality of the past persons as a boundary. They're a collective consciousness. They hold everyone's experiences, sexuality becomes redundant. And they want to please the survivors, so they'll throw whatever at them, they already showed how they ultimately dont care about consent. They say they do, but it is a rapist's kind of consent: subjective and open to absolute interpretation. You dont know what's best for you, sweetie. You'll like it.
Ultimately "Zosia" is a tool for the hive to please Carol. The fact she didnt express a woman as Zosia's past partner (which the Hive knows would please Carol in further entrenching the "relationship" she has with the Hive, which in a way is her mirroing her late wife in them), tells the entire story.
So, when they unplurb the peeps, including Zosia, there will not have been any Carol x Zosia romance. Just like the French guy wasnt a charming casanova who's in a polysexual-polyamorous relationship with all the women controled by the Hive that he's been with.
Ultimately, both these characters drank the koolaid and accepted breeching the would-be consentual boundaries of these past-persons, because a soothing voice told them "it's ok, WE consent.", just like they'd say "it's okay, WE consent if you nuke this hospital for fun"
Totally, it would break the fiction that Carol has been living, not to mention the grossness of “dating” someone that isn’t even into your gender
Oh I interpreted it as if she were talking about multiple partners
Im really hoping that the hive would choose someone who was prior to the joining interested in women 😭
I would marry her even if she gave me the virus
Them making her straight would so damn lazy and easy, much more interesting to make her sapphic and have her hate carol initially cause of everything she did to her. Opens up so many more possibilities than her being straight and call it a day.
I was just talking with my wife about this. I disagree with your take though. I think it's perfect that they only gave us what they gave us. The show and the writers trust your Intelligence to pick up on that on your own, and we're spiraling and speculating far more than we would have if they gave us more specifics.
lol yes
Can’t Zosia be Bi?
Also, Carol literally wrote Raban to have changed gender in her newest chapter.
She could be, but it’s statistically unlikely.
Agree but I don't think it serves the story at the moment so I wasn't too bothered by it.
It's so tiring that audience always auto binary assume Zosia either straight or lesbian and no in between.
Hello bi/ pan people exist. Plenty people dont have strong preference and only explore their orientation depend on the Person they Choose to Love, and many cases only discover this later in life.
Real Zosia we meet after the Hive wont be the same as the old Zosia. She will pretty much has a dead/ rebirth arc, to rediscover, redefine her identity, experience, sexuality.
Make her straight is extremely boring. It's not what the story promise.
The story can have so much more juice and drama if we can dive into real Zosia relationship with herself and with Carol, the conflict, trauma, bonding, what is real.
I don't think Carol cares what Zoisa's previous secuality was. She gets the hive to roleplay a girlfriend using Zoisa's body and that's good enough.
I disagree - I think she cares so much that she can’t bring herself to ask
That's not really how it works, if you have sex with someone close to the age of consent and don't confirm that they are of age, you don't get to say I cared so much that they were of age, I can't bring myself to ask.
The person you responded to is right, she only "cares" in the sense that if she finds out the truth it will ruin her fantasy role-playing relationship.
That’s 100% correct. I think Carol is hanging onto a delusion that means a lot to HER, morality/decency unfortunately aside.
I just wanted them to hook up so much. I thought I was the only one.
Aren’t all girls a little gay
Obviously pansexual
I think the finale would have benefited from broaching this question more directly. I think too many things were left unsaid. I do believe in show don’t tell to a point but at some point if you don’t say anything the stakes remain small