Zosia does mention some issues with induced pluripotency and the eggs being haploid briefly. Seems like the plan is to take the eggs and induce them back into being stem cells
Does anyone remember the person who said they canāt get her stem cells from her frozen eggs in this sub after that episode aired, and everyone took their word for it and kept repeating it to shoot down theories about the eggs lol
Though I understand its use as a plot device, I still donāt get how haploid gametes (26 pairs) can give the hive the information they need to convert Carol because they lack pluripotency to produce stem cells.
I donāt either, but given the scientific knowledge of the entire species singularly focused on a single goal.. I donāt think there are many problems that couldnāt be solved
Cause she knows the answer to that, and it's "yes, we can". They already showed they would do that when they infected everyone in the world without their express consent, and even when she said she didn't want to be turned they still said "we're gonna :)".
She simply thought they wouldn't be able to turn her because she didn't give them access to her stem cells, but when the eggs are revealed she realises that if they can tailor the virus using those instead, then they WILL infect her without her consent.
Well they explained in the show that for them it's as if they're saving a person from drowning. I'm def not condoning their behaviour but I can see the logic in that pov.
And the only reason they need her consent for that procedure is that it would cause her pain. If they could harvest cells by, say, skin to skin contact they would just have gone and done that.
I was thinking how interesting it wouldāve been to show an alternative case where another immune backed out of conversion last minute. Prob how weād imagine itād go
They couldnāt extract her stem cells without her consent. Iāll have to rewatch the Las Vegas wordplay to see what loopholes they made for themselves.
they don't care about consent so much as they can't hurt you.
I view it as they do care about consent (they want the un-joined to be happy) but there is a biological imperative to join all humans that outweighs consent but does not outweigh not wanting to hurt any living thing.
I have no idea why so many people watching this show think they need consent to turn you. Not only has Carol broken down crying more than once about their plans to join her without her consent, the story doesnāt even make sense if that were the case
Letās use some critical thinking hereā¦ how many human eggs do you think would be in that massive cargo box? Do you think thatās a normal human amount to have frozen? Sheās not building an army of baby Carolās š
Don't even get me going on the BSL IV protocol errors!
The real issue is the suspension of disbelief: the more level of detail, the more conflicting it is with my understanding of biology, and the less you can hand wave away things that aren't compatible with our current level of biotechnology. Easiest thing would have been to ignore the eggs, and just say "we have methods" and leave it at that.
Sure, the hive is probably doing things which aren't possible today, and would benefit for tech advancement, but the issue with the eggs is one of information and probability: the hive can't both be truthful in what it tells Carol, and deterministically be able to solve this problem. It just don't add up!
Imagine the entire planet working together on a singular goal.
This shouldn't be hard to suspend your beliefs, actually.
Why? Because its been proven time and time again, our current understanding of science is often challenged later on, mixed with the fact that the scientists presenting this knowledge will absolutely refuse opposing data, ideas, etc.
Ego plays a part in science, even though it should not. Religion and other things do too, but lets not get into that lol.
My point is, every single brightest mind. Every single mind for that matter. All different perspectives. A plethora of information no singular person could possibly know. They're able to look at things in ways we could absolutely never do. Think about all the things we have yet to discover, all of the things we discovered. You're looking at it from a human angle. They're not.
Suspension of disbelief is specifically for scenarios such as this. The average viewer knows nothing about how stem cells work so the show saying "it's possible" should just be taken at face value. Literally just use your imagination for one second and it's easy to handwave any scientific complexity as the hivemind putting every single genetic scientist on the planet on this task. I'm sure Breaking Bad is filled with scientific errors, but it doesn't affect the normal viewer.
Also: the scientific charge of the first episode, as much in the astronomy field as in the biology field, is very deep and demonstrative. The fact that the bitten scientist gets converted in a matter of a minute, is the most unbelievable part and the series authors have done a great job very early so that Ā«Ā suspension of disbeliefĀ Ā» capital is put to good use early and effectively.
Ā«Ā the eggsĀ Ā» is just lazy writing. They should have used some cryopreservation of bone marrow, although I dunnot know if it is a technic actually used for therapies.
That's not quite consistent with my understanding of science though, and especially with engineering aspects. If one woman takes 9 months to make a baby, 9 women can't take one month. The problem has to benefit from parallel effort, and that's not always the case.
Who knows, science might not even work correctly with the hive, and they may get stuck without critical and uncomfortable views. Additionally, we have no idea what their effort split is, considering their primary goal is the antenna for transmission.
Even if what you say is true: the story would be better off leaving out all the details, then giving some details that only add up with quite extraordinary (and arguably more interesting) mechanisms that are left blank. Like the consequence of this stuff is radical and fascinating, yet we only get a nugget of the story and are then forced off into another direction!
Yeah man idk what to tell you. I could keep arguing but the point still stands, its fiction. Its really not that deep, buuut if you cant let it go, i guess move onto another show
I was thinkingā¦ they could use the eggs to create chimeras by electric false fertilization, which would be an half-perfect clone of carolās stem cellsā¦ and then maybe create an injectable new kind of neural tissue which would be altered to be part of the hive, etcā¦
BUT the major problem is that at the beginning of the episode, the young girl is Ā«Ā smellingĀ Ā» a vapor, so it is still very much a virus, and not modified human cells.
Cos one cannot smells cells ^ even though, would not quite work like a virus.
Its not a virus. I also thought it was as well, but if you rewatch the first episode where they're talking to carol on tv, they say "we're more akin to a virus, but not exactly that either"
Stop? They arenāt going to retcon the show because some nerd on Reddit is mad the alien hive mind show has some unrealistic biology, and none of us want to listen to you
I don't want them to retcon the show. I want to share my frustration that, at least for me and probably others with the same training, education, and experience, the immersion is being lost in very distracting ways.
The show runners do care about this stuff, like the whiteboard scene being largely accurate, but they aren't going to build a show to satisfy the very narrow slice of the audience that is experienced with biology.
Maybe there's a solution, maybe there isn't, but this is just my fundemental experience of the show. I hate the part about eggs. I can still like the show, but if you hate the egg part too, I feel ya.
I worked in Healthcare for over 30 years. Can't watch any medical dramas because I see everything that they do incorrectly. I get it. I hate the egg part, but love the show
Retcon, no, but if you're writing a tv show someone in the writer's room could be smart enough to ask "Hey, how does this work actually? Does the science make sense?"
On top of that, hearing someone spit the facts is actually an interesting part of the conversation surrounding a sci-fi tv show,
much more so than someone saying "Dude, it's fiction!! Let it go!!"
I know, I agree 100%. Pluribus even used scientists for some scenes like filling out the whiteboard.
The problem is that learning all the science is prohibitively difficult for a writers room, and only satisfies an increasing small population of viewers. Even if I ran the show, I'd probably be making the same decisions, because it's hand waive possible and not really what the show is about.
Totally agree that the ramifications of this stuff is actually highly interesting, partly why I like The Expanse so much: they thought this stuff through, and came up with obvious solutions to orbital dynamics and war (Marco's astroids) that made us all think: "yea, that seems lke the best idea".
See and based on your comments, I still would've marked you for a child.
Only insufferable snobs dislike media because some writer didn't account for some small, utlra-specific details most folk couldn't give a shit about.
For example, I'm a software engineer, but I'm not going to make specific critiques and form a strong opinion about "hackers" in media. Doesn't matter to me. Most people don't know what dependency injection or inversion of control are. Because it doesn't matter. Also those terms aren't even related to hacking, but most people might say they sound like something an elite hacker in a spy movie would say.
Folk care about characters, motivation, plot, etc.
| Only insufferable snobs dislike media because some writer didn't account for some small, utlra-specific details most folk couldn't give a shit about.
I think this is the fundamental misunderstanding. I love Pluribus, it's a wonderful and entertaining show. What I'm pointing out, is that the issue of the eggs is breaking my suspension of disbelief, and hugely distracting. I can't help that, it just is.
You can tell me it doesn't matter, but it only doesn't matter to you. To me, it matters, and that's the wonderful part of great TV shows, the experience is subjective.
Also, you think Hackers has anything to do with DI of IoC? What are you even watching, dude? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and imagine the same scenario has happened, and I'm sure you can agree that it's possible to recognize the loss of immersion as distracting, and still enjoy the media.
Gotcha, I took you for some of the dudes I've seen rabidly shitting on this show for unserious reasons.
And I'm saying that I think it's silly to let something like that break your suspension of disbelief.
I shoot guns, and every time I see a scene of someone looking down a scope, I'm thinking about how they aren't adjusting for elevation. They never use the holdover marks and instead just center the reticle on the target. But I can't say I've ever had that completely break my suspension of disbelief, because it really doesn't matter.
Also I specifically said those aren't hacker terms.
I brought them up as an example of hyper specific terms no one cares about. A hacker type character could easily blab on about design patterns in OOP and very few people would be able to catch what those words mean and that they have no relation to hacking whatsoever. Because it doesn't truly matter. The story is being told and the point gets across. 9/10 people won't notice or don't care.
I just think getting hung up on small inaccuracies is silly.
Sometimes reddit just beat up on you for having a different view point. I'm not saying the show is bad, all these are excusable mistakes. Just that scene bothers me, which is probably not that unique.
Ikr at that point they could've just said "oh we've used your cousin's bone marrow because family is a close enough match". They already brought the cousin up after all. But it's needed for dramatic effect. I always imagine that's how tech people must feel half the time when media gets their field wrong. And then I sigh and move on.
agreed, stem cells to create a specific virusā¦ why not, although I canāt fathom how (but thatās the sci-fi part).
buuuut eggs are gametes, haploids, they are nothing like embryons (stem cells by excellence)ā¦ and Zosha does mentions Ā«Ā haploidsĀ Ā» as an hindering factorā¦ but that was a break in the suspension of disbelief that I couldnāt recover from (because I wouldnāt screams the eeeeegggs too)
It can't be immune - did you see how fast the pathogen worked? The speed at which the pathogen works discredits the theory that the immune system could somehow prevent or defeat Joining. Even an active immune response (ex. B and T Cells were already in blood and hunting), they wouldn't be capable of defeating the alien DNA/RNA sequence because the probability of contact between pathogen and defender is virtually zero while the effective dose to Join is incredibly low (oral/aerosol route bypasses all physical barriers). If an immune response could defeat it, it would have to be Join first and then a seek-destroy response to unplurb.
Based on what has been revealed, my theory is that Carol and the other survivor's have some genetic trait which prevents their brains from receiving Plurb broadcasts (but they can still broadcast on Plurb channels, hence why Plurbs seize when survivors get upset). Genetic disorders can be fixed through CRISPR so the Plurb hotfix probably works like that.
It's possible that the stem cells are being re-written and then differentiated into whatever 'receiver' organ cells are and then introduced into the recipient. That way, there's no risk of organ rejection.
Alternatively, the stem cells provide some sort of guidance into which particular gene segment needs to be altered, probably by identifying which alternative binding sites need to be targeted in order to inject the Plurb genes.
I don't think the immune are "transmitting" on the same frequency. At least we haven't see anything to support that yet.
When Carol / Manousos emotional overloads them it's because the local Plurb is like a microphone into the Hive network. The Plurbs abandon them to remove the microphone.
Yes, it's a big maybe though, which isn't compatible with with "we're going to get this done in a month, two at most".
They must already know there's a SNP or some information in the eggs that can be used, but that's not compatible with the bone marrow method, so perhaps there are two different methods. If we're just looking for SNPs, they could have used her garbage, so why bring up the eggs?
We also don't know the amount of effort being applied, or how many resources are going towards this, and what level of deception the hive is really capable of (beside simple omission). It could be a massive effort, thousands of labs working on it, but we don't know.
It's the sort of thing that brings up way more questions that it answers, and in terms of story telling, I'd much prefer a vague "we're working on it" explanation and we can leave the questions of biological information and forward viral development aside to focus on the human aspects.
You are assuming the mumbo jumbo alien RNA behaves like anything that we know today
We don't even know whether you could classify it as virus. All we know is, they got an RNA sequence and it can be transmitted via droplets. Besides that we know that the incubation time is a few seconds; much faster than a virus
Well, there's a good bit of evidence that RNA is actually universal. Without fully going into it, the "RNA World Hypothesis" takes a number of observations: RNA is information, RNA is catalyst, and RNA emerges from carbon "goop" found other places in the universe, and supposes that early life was probably just RNA in a giant soup.
We know A LOT about how RNA behaves, and it's enough to make life itself given some additional contraints (lipid droplets)
It's plausible, just improbable. I'm fine with that, especially because two hypothesis, The Drake Equation, and the RNA World Hypothesis, get you 95% of the conditions you'd need for such a signal to come from a world with RNA biology, and one that developed intelligent life.
When you think about the signal further, we already have ideas that support such a thing. It's grounded, and also so early in the pilot that it tautologically needs to be true in order to tell the story.
"We're learning about your immunity system from your eggs" just doesn't make the same amount of sense, it's not grounded, and there are alternative ways to do the same thing biologically, like use dead skin cells, or sample the cousin as a comparison.
Ultimately, you are right though, and I ultimately just went with it and really enjoyed the finale. That said, I'd take a fudge factored Drake equation over mysterious biology any day!
At some point we have to remember we are watching Fiction. Getting stem cells from eggs is no more unrealistic than a signal from space creating a hive mind. It's a premise to create a show to generate dialog.
I'm a little confused... Why didn't she just ask for her eggs back?. They'd have to give them to her, right? They can't deny her anything that she asks for?
they've been screaming that since the las vegas episode
Hell, folks been saying it since the Ice Hotel episodešš
We didnt know they needed their stem cells to create the virus for the survivors at that point
Still it was kind of obvious they would come up later, itās the classic Chekovās Eggs
So if I were to argue on behalf of why someone wouldn't find it obvious, would I be playing Devil's Eggs?
The Devil's Eggvocate.
Please Carol, your eggs are the devil.
Where is the stem cell biologist who explained that eggs can't be used to retrieve stem cells
Surely they are fuming that the plot point went ahead in the finale
Eggs make baby. Baby make stem cells.
So by that math, they need Baby.
They can't use the eggs... yet.
Zosia does mention some issues with induced pluripotency and the eggs being haploid briefly. Seems like the plan is to take the eggs and induce them back into being stem cells
eggs were mentioned in that episode !?
Not directly, but that episode is where we are told that the hive needs the stem cells of the survivors to plurb them
well I am in awe of people capable of connecting the two, cos it doesnāt in actual science.
Yep.
I was screaming "get there carol, get there"
I thought that was some fine acting on Seehorn's part, when you could see it on her face when she finally put two and two together.
I love scenes like this. Just a detailed shot at the character's facial expressions speaking for themselves
rhea is a blockbuster actress too which makes the punch more gut wrenching
I swear her face did not move a muscle but her eyes told the exact moment she came to a realization. This is some unbelievable acting
Does anyone remember the person who said they canāt get her stem cells from her frozen eggs in this sub after that episode aired, and everyone took their word for it and kept repeating it to shoot down theories about the eggs lol
I do. I got shot down.
Though I understand its use as a plot device, I still donāt get how haploid gametes (26 pairs) can give the hive the information they need to convert Carol because they lack pluripotency to produce stem cells.
I donāt either, but given the scientific knowledge of the entire species singularly focused on a single goal.. I donāt think there are many problems that couldnāt be solved
Zosia briefly mentions an issue with this and induced pluripotency so it seems the plan is to somehow make them fully pluripotent
i still cant get over the fact that Carol has never even asked if she can be infected without consentš©
itās all āBut you wonāt stick a needle in me without consent, right?ā
Cause she knows the answer to that, and it's "yes, we can". They already showed they would do that when they infected everyone in the world without their express consent, and even when she said she didn't want to be turned they still said "we're gonna :)".
She simply thought they wouldn't be able to turn her because she didn't give them access to her stem cells, but when the eggs are revealed she realises that if they can tailor the virus using those instead, then they WILL infect her without her consent.
Agreed with all that being said. I just think it's hypocritical of them to turn you without your consent, regardless of the method.
They turned everybody on earth without their consent.
Well they explained in the show that for them it's as if they're saving a person from drowning. I'm def not condoning their behaviour but I can see the logic in that pov.
Canāt she just ask for them back?
But I thought they said they couldn't convert her without her explicit consent?
They can't harvest her stem cells without her consent. They can absolutely convert her without her consent
And the only reason they need her consent for that procedure is that it would cause her pain. If they could harvest cells by, say, skin to skin contact they would just have gone and done that.
We should note that the only reason the hive pretends to grant consent to Kusimayu is that her choice was obviously going to be yes.
I was thinking how interesting it wouldāve been to show an alternative case where another immune backed out of conversion last minute. Prob how weād imagine itād go
Mother... Fuckers...
They posted on the sign that they would not ātake stem cells from her body.ā No lie, very deceptive.
Very very sneaky
And they foreshadowed that deceptive non-lie with the "preference" to be vegetarian/HDP issue.
As Carol said, All the Lawyers survived.
They couldnāt extract her stem cells without her consent. Iāll have to rewatch the Las Vegas wordplay to see what loopholes they made for themselves.
A very explicit loophole. They promised in Vegas not to extract stem cells from her body. And they're not going to.
they don't care about consent so much as they can't hurt you.
I view it as they do care about consent (they want the un-joined to be happy) but there is a biological imperative to join all humans that outweighs consent but does not outweigh not wanting to hurt any living thing.
Everyone in the very first episode was converted without their consent.
I have no idea why so many people watching this show think they need consent to turn you. Not only has Carol broken down crying more than once about their plans to join her without her consent, the story doesnāt even make sense if that were the case
I don't know why Carol in that moment didn't say to zosia, your giving me my eggs back now!
Maybe those are her eggs in that box and she said "atom bomb" to be sarcastic. How big are eggs?
Letās use some critical thinking hereā¦ how many human eggs do you think would be in that massive cargo box? Do you think thatās a normal human amount to have frozen? Sheās not building an army of baby Carolās š
Surprisingly big, for a cell. You can see them with the naked eye.
I mean, they even reintroduced the eggs in this episode using the door sensor. The exposure level was unnecessary.
the eggspoacher level was unnecessary
I hate the eggs. So stupid.
Egg cells don't have the epigenetic markers to determine your adaptive immune system, like those in bone marrow.
There's a chance you could use the egg to identify SNPs or other somatic mutations, but it's pretty much guess and check.
Its fiction.
Don't even get me going on the BSL IV protocol errors!
The real issue is the suspension of disbelief: the more level of detail, the more conflicting it is with my understanding of biology, and the less you can hand wave away things that aren't compatible with our current level of biotechnology. Easiest thing would have been to ignore the eggs, and just say "we have methods" and leave it at that.
Sure, the hive is probably doing things which aren't possible today, and would benefit for tech advancement, but the issue with the eggs is one of information and probability: the hive can't both be truthful in what it tells Carol, and deterministically be able to solve this problem. It just don't add up!
Imagine the entire planet working together on a singular goal.
This shouldn't be hard to suspend your beliefs, actually.
Why? Because its been proven time and time again, our current understanding of science is often challenged later on, mixed with the fact that the scientists presenting this knowledge will absolutely refuse opposing data, ideas, etc.
Ego plays a part in science, even though it should not. Religion and other things do too, but lets not get into that lol.
My point is, every single brightest mind. Every single mind for that matter. All different perspectives. A plethora of information no singular person could possibly know. They're able to look at things in ways we could absolutely never do. Think about all the things we have yet to discover, all of the things we discovered. You're looking at it from a human angle. They're not.
Theres your ability to suspend belief!
one canāt command (even more remedy) suspension of disbelief to NOT happen or disappear LOL. point is very simple: stem cells and gametes are nothing alike. And for the same reason : they could simply be (also) using DiabatĆ©ās jerk off , cos its gametes too, to adapt the virus. But using sperms is somehow less sexy, humm?
Suspension of disbelief is specifically for scenarios such as this. The average viewer knows nothing about how stem cells work so the show saying "it's possible" should just be taken at face value. Literally just use your imagination for one second and it's easy to handwave any scientific complexity as the hivemind putting every single genetic scientist on the planet on this task. I'm sure Breaking Bad is filled with scientific errors, but it doesn't affect the normal viewer.
the average quality of the both is way above the perceived standard deviation of the normal viewer. hence the disappointment.
Also: the scientific charge of the first episode, as much in the astronomy field as in the biology field, is very deep and demonstrative. The fact that the bitten scientist gets converted in a matter of a minute, is the most unbelievable part and the series authors have done a great job very early so that Ā«Ā suspension of disbeliefĀ Ā» capital is put to good use early and effectively. Ā«Ā the eggsĀ Ā» is just lazy writing. They should have used some cryopreservation of bone marrow, although I dunnot know if it is a technic actually used for therapies.
That's not quite consistent with my understanding of science though, and especially with engineering aspects. If one woman takes 9 months to make a baby, 9 women can't take one month. The problem has to benefit from parallel effort, and that's not always the case.
Who knows, science might not even work correctly with the hive, and they may get stuck without critical and uncomfortable views. Additionally, we have no idea what their effort split is, considering their primary goal is the antenna for transmission.
Even if what you say is true: the story would be better off leaving out all the details, then giving some details that only add up with quite extraordinary (and arguably more interesting) mechanisms that are left blank. Like the consequence of this stuff is radical and fascinating, yet we only get a nugget of the story and are then forced off into another direction!
Yeah man idk what to tell you. I could keep arguing but the point still stands, its fiction. Its really not that deep, buuut if you cant let it go, i guess move onto another show
I was thinkingā¦ they could use the eggs to create chimeras by electric false fertilization, which would be an half-perfect clone of carolās stem cellsā¦ and then maybe create an injectable new kind of neural tissue which would be altered to be part of the hive, etcā¦ BUT the major problem is that at the beginning of the episode, the young girl is Ā«Ā smellingĀ Ā» a vapor, so it is still very much a virus, and not modified human cells. Cos one cannot smells cells ^ even though, would not quite work like a virus.
Its not a virus. I also thought it was as well, but if you rewatch the first episode where they're talking to carol on tv, they say "we're more akin to a virus, but not exactly that either"
I can't promise you I will move on, but I will continue to complain about it!
Stop? They arenāt going to retcon the show because some nerd on Reddit is mad the alien hive mind show has some unrealistic biology, and none of us want to listen to you
I don't want them to retcon the show. I want to share my frustration that, at least for me and probably others with the same training, education, and experience, the immersion is being lost in very distracting ways.
The show runners do care about this stuff, like the whiteboard scene being largely accurate, but they aren't going to build a show to satisfy the very narrow slice of the audience that is experienced with biology.
Maybe there's a solution, maybe there isn't, but this is just my fundemental experience of the show. I hate the part about eggs. I can still like the show, but if you hate the egg part too, I feel ya.
I worked in Healthcare for over 30 years. Can't watch any medical dramas because I see everything that they do incorrectly. I get it. I hate the egg part, but love the show
Retcon, no, but if you're writing a tv show someone in the writer's room could be smart enough to ask "Hey, how does this work actually? Does the science make sense?"
On top of that, hearing someone spit the facts is actually an interesting part of the conversation surrounding a sci-fi tv show,
much more so than someone saying "Dude, it's fiction!! Let it go!!"
I know, I agree 100%. Pluribus even used scientists for some scenes like filling out the whiteboard.
The problem is that learning all the science is prohibitively difficult for a writers room, and only satisfies an increasing small population of viewers. Even if I ran the show, I'd probably be making the same decisions, because it's hand waive possible and not really what the show is about.
Totally agree that the ramifications of this stuff is actually highly interesting, partly why I like The Expanse so much: they thought this stuff through, and came up with obvious solutions to orbital dynamics and war (Marco's astroids) that made us all think: "yea, that seems lke the best idea".
I donāt know why people are downvoting you. I totally agree with your point but I like the show so Iām just exited to see where itās going
This is like saying you can't suspend your disbelief for Jurassic Park lmao
Maybe. You'd need to know that DNA degrades on the scale of millions of years. Plus I was 6 when I first watched it.
See and based on your comments, I still would've marked you for a child.
Only insufferable snobs dislike media because some writer didn't account for some small, utlra-specific details most folk couldn't give a shit about.
For example, I'm a software engineer, but I'm not going to make specific critiques and form a strong opinion about "hackers" in media. Doesn't matter to me. Most people don't know what dependency injection or inversion of control are. Because it doesn't matter. Also those terms aren't even related to hacking, but most people might say they sound like something an elite hacker in a spy movie would say.
Folk care about characters, motivation, plot, etc.
| Only insufferable snobs dislike media because some writer didn't account for some small, utlra-specific details most folk couldn't give a shit about.
I think this is the fundamental misunderstanding. I love Pluribus, it's a wonderful and entertaining show. What I'm pointing out, is that the issue of the eggs is breaking my suspension of disbelief, and hugely distracting. I can't help that, it just is.
You can tell me it doesn't matter, but it only doesn't matter to you. To me, it matters, and that's the wonderful part of great TV shows, the experience is subjective.
Also, you think Hackers has anything to do with DI of IoC? What are you even watching, dude? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and imagine the same scenario has happened, and I'm sure you can agree that it's possible to recognize the loss of immersion as distracting, and still enjoy the media.
Gotcha, I took you for some of the dudes I've seen rabidly shitting on this show for unserious reasons.
And I'm saying that I think it's silly to let something like that break your suspension of disbelief.
I shoot guns, and every time I see a scene of someone looking down a scope, I'm thinking about how they aren't adjusting for elevation. They never use the holdover marks and instead just center the reticle on the target. But I can't say I've ever had that completely break my suspension of disbelief, because it really doesn't matter.
Also I specifically said those aren't hacker terms.
I brought them up as an example of hyper specific terms no one cares about. A hacker type character could easily blab on about design patterns in OOP and very few people would be able to catch what those words mean and that they have no relation to hacking whatsoever. Because it doesn't truly matter. The story is being told and the point gets across. 9/10 people won't notice or don't care.
I just think getting hung up on small inaccuracies is silly.
I should have read your posts, for which I felt the same suspension of disbelief break, before posting mineā¦ unfair downvotes
haha, no worries.
Sometimes reddit just beat up on you for having a different view point. I'm not saying the show is bad, all these are excusable mistakes. Just that scene bothers me, which is probably not that unique.
Why canāt they just guess and check? They have literally the entire world at their disposal
Ikr at that point they could've just said "oh we've used your cousin's bone marrow because family is a close enough match". They already brought the cousin up after all. But it's needed for dramatic effect. I always imagine that's how tech people must feel half the time when media gets their field wrong. And then I sigh and move on.
YES DUDE.
I wish you were in the writers room or that.
agreed, stem cells to create a specific virusā¦ why not, although I canāt fathom how (but thatās the sci-fi part). buuuut eggs are gametes, haploids, they are nothing like embryons (stem cells by excellence)ā¦ and Zosha does mentions Ā«Ā haploidsĀ Ā» as an hindering factorā¦ but that was a break in the suspension of disbelief that I couldnāt recover from (because I wouldnāt screams the eeeeegggs too)
Maybe they didn't need to determine your adaptive immune system.Ā
It can't be immune - did you see how fast the pathogen worked? The speed at which the pathogen works discredits the theory that the immune system could somehow prevent or defeat Joining. Even an active immune response (ex. B and T Cells were already in blood and hunting), they wouldn't be capable of defeating the alien DNA/RNA sequence because the probability of contact between pathogen and defender is virtually zero while the effective dose to Join is incredibly low (oral/aerosol route bypasses all physical barriers). If an immune response could defeat it, it would have to be Join first and then a seek-destroy response to unplurb.
Based on what has been revealed, my theory is that Carol and the other survivor's have some genetic trait which prevents their brains from receiving Plurb broadcasts (but they can still broadcast on Plurb channels, hence why Plurbs seize when survivors get upset). Genetic disorders can be fixed through CRISPR so the Plurb hotfix probably works like that.
It's possible that the stem cells are being re-written and then differentiated into whatever 'receiver' organ cells are and then introduced into the recipient. That way, there's no risk of organ rejection.
Alternatively, the stem cells provide some sort of guidance into which particular gene segment needs to be altered, probably by identifying which alternative binding sites need to be targeted in order to inject the Plurb genes.
I don't think the immune are "transmitting" on the same frequency. At least we haven't see anything to support that yet.
When Carol / Manousos emotional overloads them it's because the local Plurb is like a microphone into the Hive network. The Plurbs abandon them to remove the microphone.
Yes, it's a big maybe though, which isn't compatible with with "we're going to get this done in a month, two at most".
They must already know there's a SNP or some information in the eggs that can be used, but that's not compatible with the bone marrow method, so perhaps there are two different methods. If we're just looking for SNPs, they could have used her garbage, so why bring up the eggs?
We also don't know the amount of effort being applied, or how many resources are going towards this, and what level of deception the hive is really capable of (beside simple omission). It could be a massive effort, thousands of labs working on it, but we don't know.
It's the sort of thing that brings up way more questions that it answers, and in terms of story telling, I'd much prefer a vague "we're working on it" explanation and we can leave the questions of biological information and forward viral development aside to focus on the human aspects.
You are assuming the mumbo jumbo alien RNA behaves like anything that we know today
We don't even know whether you could classify it as virus. All we know is, they got an RNA sequence and it can be transmitted via droplets. Besides that we know that the incubation time is a few seconds; much faster than a virus
Well, there's a good bit of evidence that RNA is actually universal. Without fully going into it, the "RNA World Hypothesis" takes a number of observations: RNA is information, RNA is catalyst, and RNA emerges from carbon "goop" found other places in the universe, and supposes that early life was probably just RNA in a giant soup.
We know A LOT about how RNA behaves, and it's enough to make life itself given some additional contraints (lipid droplets)
The entire premise of the show is utterly implausible from a biological standpoint. Just gotta suspend disbelief and go with it.
It's plausible, just improbable. I'm fine with that, especially because two hypothesis, The Drake Equation, and the RNA World Hypothesis, get you 95% of the conditions you'd need for such a signal to come from a world with RNA biology, and one that developed intelligent life.
When you think about the signal further, we already have ideas that support such a thing. It's grounded, and also so early in the pilot that it tautologically needs to be true in order to tell the story.
"We're learning about your immunity system from your eggs" just doesn't make the same amount of sense, it's not grounded, and there are alternative ways to do the same thing biologically, like use dead skin cells, or sample the cousin as a comparison.
Ultimately, you are right though, and I ultimately just went with it and really enjoyed the finale. That said, I'd take a fudge factored Drake equation over mysterious biology any day!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't egg cells develop to create new cells?
https://www.reddit.com/r/pluribustv/comments/1pf6plj/quick_science_clarification_about_stem_cells/
That's a much better, more detailed write up.
Apparently they are cooking something up, its going to take them two months.
At some point we have to remember we are watching Fiction. Getting stem cells from eggs is no more unrealistic than a signal from space creating a hive mind. It's a premise to create a show to generate dialog.
They could also convert skin cells into stem cells. It seems pretty stupid to me as well.
If she did consume alcohol during the egg creation, would that have any affect on whether they can get her stem cells?
All female humans eggs are created in utero. We are born with all of our eggs already.
so they can steal but not lie? as someone whoās done IVFāthatās carolās genetic materials. not anyone elseās.
That was me screaming at the little girl about the goat.
Eggs aside, there are several opportunities where they could have gotten Carol's stem cells from her blood without needing specific consent to do so.
Pluribus fans have been saying this all season šµ š“ šĀ
Can't she just ask them to destroy the eggs?
The Hive likely wouldn't as it would be counter to their biological imperative.
If Carol was being practical she would demand to be taken to where they are doing their lab work and destroy it. It would at least them back in time.
I'm a little confused... Why didn't she just ask for her eggs back?. They'd have to give them to her, right? They can't deny her anything that she asks for?
The Hive likely wouldn't as it would be counter to their biological imperative.
If Carol was being practical she would demand to be taken to where they are doing their lab work and destroy it. It would at least them back in time.
Why donāt they need consent to use her eggs?
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You're the one who decided to click a spoiler post.