We get it - you personally don't go to Monroeville or Pleasant Hills.
But the city of Pittsburgh will greatly benefit by these hundreds of thousands of people not taking the Parkway through the city to get between the two biggest suburban regions.
It isn't just benefiting Monroeville ffs and the communities it will serve are well beyond just the narrowly defined South Hills and Eastern Suburbs.
In the early 90s my dad used to joke he would die before the Mon-Fayette Expressway was complete. Well, he was correct.
I'm sorry for your loss.
Page two shows the daily traffic volume on the Parkway East at 96,000 vehicles https://www.spcregion.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/I-376-Parkway-East-ATM-System-Final-ConOps-to-PennDOT-4-20-21.pdf
I live in this region and actively avoid 376East for precisely this reason. I take back streets, Hazelwood, Swineburn, etc. to get to/from Oakland.
I think what this comment is saying is that the traffic on the parkway really isn't that much - and certainly not that of "hundreds of thousands of people."
Traveling on the Parkway East is a pain in the butt. The numbers +/- a couple thousand isn't really the point. It's all relative when you can't move except at a snails pace or slower with traffic. I actively avoid it because it is nothing but nightmares trying to get around on the Parkway near and during peak travel times.
It’s a slow route during busy travel times, which is how all highways work.
My assumption would be that while daily users is 100k, unique users over time would equate to a larger sum
Only about half of our commuters drive alone: https://bikepgh.org/2026/01/06/our-annual-analysis-of-commuting-habits-in-the-60-largest-us-cities-shows-a-comeback-for-active-transportation/#:~:text=Even%20though%20the%20number%20of,of%20the%20largest%2060%20cities.
So likely well over 100k people daily on the parkway east.
I’m not sure the costs or the % expected vehicle reduction, but seems like a lot of room for improved efficiency.
and imagine if we had vehicles that could hold 50 people each, and dedicate funding to a system of those!
Yes and imagine if we had networks for ride sharing which would reduce car ownership and waste-miles ….
Sarcasm aside, I’d love better bus and train infrastructure too - but I think it is better to emphasize that on slower urban throughways before the freeways.
The ride sharing services add to vehicle traffic. In addition to the dead head miles, a lot of their trips are replacing public transit, bikes,mor walking. I’m guilty myself. Used to take two buses from the airport, now take an uber to/from Oakland instead of the second bus.
I'd be more optimistic about it if the Southern Beltway were actually pitched as a replacement for 376, rather than a redundant alternative that would stretch resources even thinner.
I don't even think this road will benefit the South Hills or Monroeville or Robinson or Pittsburgh, other than making getting to the airport slightly easier from a few neighborhoods in the east. I live in the South Hills and grew up in the Mon Valley. My spouse and I drive through Pleasant Hills all the time to see my parents. I don't think that many locals are going to be using this road. The idea that building a new highway past these communities will spur economic growth in any meaningful way sounds like magical thinking from a business school fail-son to me.
The only people I know who ever really used the current iteration of 43 did so to get to California University when they felt rich enough to pay the tolls, so there's another trip generator for this route that doesn't even exist anymore. Just like Century III Mall and Monroeville Mall.
It's important to remember that things have costs... not just monetary costs, but they take up space and they cause pollution. If we can't justify a train between the hotels Downtown and the airport, then why are we building a new superhighway between f***ing MONROEVILLE and the airport... by way of Finleyville?
I'm not particularly knowledgeable on the topic, but it smells like the government spending millions to save a relatively small number of private businesses thousands. Spending other people's money is always a good business decision.
I’d say it would be good for trucks to skip the city but they can kinda do a beltway with 76, 70, and 79 anyway. In a perfect world you put light rail spurs east, west, and north, make the beltway free, and charge a huge toll on the interstates that go into the city. That would incentivize people to either drive around or use public transit.
I live in bridgeville, it's a nightmare going to east of the city.
So build a rail line. It’s a city, not rural farmland. The most efficient way to move people in a city isn’t a personal vehicle.
Expanding the T would be a massive undertaking, and would require us convincing the state government to fund it.
Building a highway isn’t a cake walk and it isn’t free.
In principle, yes, but people would still need their cars in those locales until local transit is improved.
It helps create a real belt around the city, once completed
Padme: That means we can tear down the cancerous urban freeways, right?
Anakin: ...
Padme: Right?
So far from the city though its usefulness is debatable. As far as I can tell the right of way for the final piece from cannonsburg to Finleyville has already been lost to new housing
The current end of the road in Jefferson Hills is like 15 minutes from the city.
If someone built houses in the ROW for the highway they will eminent domain the houses and build the highway.
The part I’m talking about is in Peters township around mcmurray road near the all clad factory. That segment would complete the loop to 576. Eminent domain is slow and expensive. The segment to Monroeville is still unfunded and the leg into the city is as canceled
They're spending a billion dollars to go a few miles and they've been building it for a century. Time and cost aren't things that slow them down.
I have a couple friends who lost homes in West Mifflin due to the current 43 construction. The process started like a year before anyone was even thinking about leaning on a shovel.
I think Peters will have enough political power to fight it. But it will be like another ten years or even 20 years before it’s even considered
If anyone can stop it, it would be the rich white folks.
Yup lol.
Do you have data supporting this claim about the two largest suburban areas? I would’ve guessed that the two largest areas are north and south. I think the south hills make sense but not the east. The McKnight road, perry highway, cranberry region seems way more densely populated, and commercially developed, than Monroeville/murrysville.
Making it easier to live in the suburbs is definitely not a priority. There was a large migration north when 279 opened and the don't want to repeat it.
More people commuting farther might benefit big oil enough for the current regime to endorse it.
I think there is a sound argument in a true beltway around the city of Pittsburgh. Alternate routes are always good, and given the snarl created daily by the tunnels and bridges in the city, there is an appeal to have options to other places in the region other than the parkway.
It's especially helpful for truck traffic, which may be able to bypass the city completely, especially anything based at the airport that needs to get to the eastern side of Allegheny County or to Westmoreland County.
The problem is the cost and the time that it's taken to piecemeal this thing together. If it was a smoother, more contained project, it might get less opposition.
In what way would the city benefit from people changing their route? I'm not sure I'm seeing how it makes a huge difference either way?
I've been a resident of the South Hills for about 40 years. No one uses 43 and when I talk about the Mon Valley Expressway to people. I would say the majority of people have no idea what it is or where it will go.
I mean I keep hearing that this will be great for the South Hills to get to monroeville. But then what I look at it on MapQuest and the proposal. It's more of a pain for me to get to the expressway. I'd rather just cut down 51 or west liberty.
I use it.
So you're one of a handful of people that use it. I mean I've used it and I swear I was one of five cars on it. Even anytime it's brought up in this sub people mention how they're the only car on it half the time.
It was a waste
43 is dead. And expanding it to Monroeville of all places is the biggest waste of money.
Once the beltway is complete they should do a highway removal project between the boulevard of the allies and fort Pitt bridge. Through traffic to airport and west goes around. Maybe then it'd be worth the money.
And why would give a shit if the parkway has less traffic? It's a waste of money no matter how you try to work it out. Glad you are happy about you new asphalt suburban connection.
Because less traffic means fewer accidents, less money wasted idling in traffic, and less maintenance on the roads.
How does adding an entirely new road cut down on maintenance? Wouldn't that new road also need to be maintained?
It cuts down on the maintenance of the larger roadway.
However, the savings on maintenance are only realized if the cost of the new road + the cost of the old road with less usage is less than the cost of the old road with high usage.
The other points about wasting fuel sitting in traffic, accidents and collisions, and time savings, on their own should be the focus. Possible maintenance savings are a nice addition.
Induced demand.
Communities grow when infrastructure is built, that is a given. If the concern is that it would grow too quickly, and outpace the capacity of other infrastructure, I'd say that this small stretch is unlikely to spur much growth over the long term.
Edit:
This is not a disputed fact. I don't know why this statement is upsetting to people.
Having two roads instead of one means MORE maintenance on the roads, actually...
And crashes happening in Finleyville make people just as dead as crashes happening in Green Tree.
Read my other comment. Higher capacity usage generally means more maintenance, splitting it into two might result in a less overall cost. Hence why we build big networks of asphalt roads instead of shuffling everything onto singular roads.
You completely missed the point is that less traffic means FEWER overall collisions. We are not just trying to "moving the collisions elsewhere", we are trying to CUT down on the total.
One more lane, bro!
"One more lane" is when you just keep expanding an existing roadway which is above capacity. Its a cheap solution to a complicated problem. Creating alternative routes is more expensive but generally better long term, since it actually helps to solve the underlying problem of everyone crowding onto a single road.
This is an important observation. Traditionally, towns were built with gridded or webbed streets, which provided lots of alternative routes for short trips. Once cars became popular, we decided that we'd use a
sewerblood vessel analogy and "collect" all of the traffic from a branched system onto "arteries". And then when the single artery clogs, everything goes to shit.And now Boomers and neo-Boomers have come to VALUE these non-redundant street networks, so basically every new development we build now only has one way in and one way out.
If your concern is over redundancy, then this addition would fall under the desired redundancy. So I don't understand what the issue is. Should we instead not build this connector, and 'clog the arteries' so to speak?
The beltway is a colossally stupid waste of money for numerous reasons, but let’s ignore most of them for now and just engage with the “it’ll be convenient” reasoning.
Let’s say there actually will be thousands upon thousands of people who will want to commute daily from Monroeville to the South Hills on the toll road because it’s quick and convenient with no traffic. What happens when those thousands of people all take the exact same exit that bottlenecks into the small local roads?
The Bridgeville exit on 79 NB is the perfect example of this. If you take the beltway from the airport to the south hills that’s the exit you need to use right now - and despite Penndot spending tons of time and money recently to widen that entire interchange, it still gets backed up during commuter hours almost all the way back onto the highway. All the local roads it feeds into simply aren’t intended to handle the ever increasing numbers of vehicle traffic, nor should they be.
43 Was originally pitched to replace the pat train. A service that went out of business in 1991 because it didn't have riders. It has cost enough that they probably could have made the pat train permanently free.
If you think this is unpopular now just wait until they start ramming it through neighborhoods to get to Monroeville. Thousands of poor people will likely need to be displaced.
They should have scrapped the whole thing when they realized they couldn't run it through Hazelwood and connect it to the Birmingham bridge (which is why that bridge is so oversized BTW )
Is this project under construction?
Also curious. First I’m hearing of this
What's with the downvote? I asked a question.
Obviously public works projects cost a rediculous amount of money - I get it.
Like if the state would fund public transit then sure give the suburbs the highways they want but the way the state has screwed PRT makes a lot of us very unhappy
The state gave over $400 million to PRT this year. How much more do you think they deserve?
They won’t even let PRT have their own autonomy I want them to get enough to build a reasonable bus network redesign. Each rider takes a car off the road so it benefits everyone. It’s probably the single most effective form of public assistance to the poor bc it helps people get to work.
So how much? You say they are getting "screwed" with $400 million - more money than they ever had before - so how much do they need?
They drained the capital fund so the system can rot away while thousands of people delt with the stress of threatened cuts for months. If they aren’t going to fund it, then the state should give up control. I would like the total system funding to increase by about 20% according to the 25 year plan proposal they did maybe in 2018. Let the county decide whether money should go to more highways or more transit. Unfortunately so much money has been pissed away in the Mon Fayette which was the brainchild of rural politicians that wanted to spend state money. Now that the last segment involves a wealthy suburban area of Monroeville it will probably stilll get built
Well, PRT funding is up way, way more than 20% since 2018, so you should be happy.
How much is it up after inflation adjusting? Covid did a number on transit but places like PNC are just now finally demanding employees back in the office the full week. The 20% was partly to fund higher frequency which might be unrealistic post covid but I think they need to put the funding toward the new Oakland bus routes they proposed in the redesign
Of course it is way more than inflation. Do you need a calculator to see that?!? If so, use one. Good god.
It sure looks like you are just making things up when you can’t give real numbers. Budget looks about 20% higher in 2025 compared to 2018 while inflation was 30% in that time period
https://www.rideprt.org/siteassets/inside-the-pa/budgets/fy-2025-2026-preliminary-budget-information.pdf
Where do you see PRT got $400 million?
The insides of his eyelids
He’ll come back with something like ” you can look it up”, and then claim I work for the PRT or the state.
And this is about where you delete everything, tesla3by3. Cover up your tracks.
https://www.wtae.com/article/public-transit-funding-pittsburgh-pennsylvania/69429097
Wow, you are clueless. This was major news.
"To be clear, the bipartisan budget passed yesterday fully funds statewide public transit at $2.6 billion, including $300 million for Pittsburgh Regional Transit. PRT was also approved to use an additional $106.7 million from the Public Transportation Trust Fund earlier this year."
-PRT champion in the Senate, Sen. Devlin Robinson
https://www.wtae.com/article/public-transit-funding-pittsburgh-pennsylvania/69429097
"To be clear, the bipartisan budget passed yesterday fully funds statewide public transit at $2.6 billion, including $300 million for Pittsburgh Regional Transit. PRT was also approved to use an additional $106.7 million from the Public Transportation Trust Fund earlier this year."
-PRT champion in the Senate, Sen. Devlin Robinson
https://www.wtae.com/article/public-transit-funding-pittsburgh-pennsylvania/69429097
Did you read the rest of the article? This was money earmarked for capital improvements. Draining existing transit allocations . It’s textbook “robbing Peter to pay Paul”.
The article also says it’s meant to last two years.
“I would still like to see a long-term, stable plan to fund public transit, and I will continue to be a vocal advocate for recurring revenue that makes sure our buses, trains, and inclines keep running strong for the people of Allegheny County who depend on them every day."
Of course some of it was for capital improvements, like any budget, and of course these state budgets are only a year at a time. That is normal operating procedure, and you can't spin this:
PRT got $400 million of state funding this year. You lied again.
There is now less money available for capital projects.
And that’s not how municipal and authority budgets work. They will spend part of the money this year, and end up with either a general found balance, or unencumbered prior year allocations to be spent in the following year.
Also, please quote exactly where I lied.
Flounder all you want.
Everyone can see that I said "the state gave over $400 million to PRT this year".
You denied that.
Even ridiculed it with your useful idiot friend Silly _Coller elsewhere.
And now we all see you doubling down on your lie until you delete everything, tesla3by3.
Please quote exactly where I denied that the state gave PRT $400 million. Exact quote, please, SamPost.
You don’t even understand how budgets work. The PRT, like most similar orgs, have separate capital and operating budgets. The state makes separate allocations for operations, and capital projects. In this case the state allowed PRT to use a capital fund for operating expenses. That means there is now less money for capital projects.
No more highways. Investment in public transit, bike lanes, and sidewalks.
But how many really need to drive from one shitty place to another?