I’ve lived here over 15 years and I thought I understood the rules of school crosswalks but I just read the law and I think I’ve been wrong. I always thought you could speed up to the posted limit as soon as you fully cross the crosswalk lines.
When you slow down to 15 mph and then pass lines, are you required to maintain that 15 mph until you pass the sign for the drivers going in the opposite direction or can you speed up right after the crosswalk lines?
According to ABC15 you can speed up immediately after the crosswalk lines are passed ( https://www.abc15.com/news/operation-safe-roads/operation-safe-roads-school-zone-driving-reminders ) but the law as written seems to indicate you need to maintain the speed in between the signs ( https://www.azleg.gov/ars/28/00797.htm ).
Am I reading the law correctly?
Edit: I believe it’s safe to say I was correct according to the law but this thread was what threw me off: https://www.reddit.com/r/driving/s/dYjJ47bhdL
The crosswalk demarks the end of the 15mph legally.
A sign you cannot read (not facing you while driving) cannot legally mark anything.
I imagine the signs they talk about are the first one marking the 15 mph Zone and the second one is marking the actual crosswalk.
In my experience, this is how it is taught by police officers and defensive driving instructors as well.
My wife was taught this in defensive driving a couple years back in phoenix.
Same
There's usually 2 signs in each direction, one well before the crosswalk and one at the crosswalk. Once you pass the crosswalk (assuming no more crossings or signs facing you) you can speed up...
However, there are also areas that have reduced speed school zones in addition to the portable crosswalk signs. Those usually drop the speed limit from 45 to 35, and they have physical/permanent signage to indicate the beginning and end of the school zone.
Yeah I think that’s where I got the law wrong. I was assuming the sign they referenced was the sign for the other drivers.
I've always maintained the posted speed between the signs as it just seems safe and appropriate. But then again, a lot of drivers don't seem interested in driving in a safe and appropriate way so...
It’s even worse when there’s a school zone on the way to a high school. The amount of teens that are unruly on the road is wild.
I’ve seen close to a dozen of teens pulled over this year.
There's like 500 yards of Broadway before it hits Mill in Tempe that is a school zone for Tempe High School. Brings the 45 MPH (which is usually treated as 50-55 MPH by drivers) down to 35 suddenly, I'm always surprised I don't see more people pulled over there.
At least the police are pulling people over, I’m jealous. I live near 2 elementary schools with a 25mph speed limit, and the amount of people who drive 45 mph is truly frightening. Same people seem to think 35 is low enough for the school zones!
I’m always gonna drive slow throughout the entire school zone on weekdays. Kids are unpredictable and it’s not worth saving 15 seconds of time.
Exactly. My kid's school can get chaotic. The staff does a pretty good job controlling traffic but you still get the a-holes passing other cars when the kids are about to cross the street. For the most part the kids follow the rules but there are too many vehicles and kids that going slower is safer.
You can do this, but it is incorrect and not the letter of the law.
Causing needless traffic congestion is neither necessarily safe nor is it ever appropriate if it is not contributing to safety.
Efficient traffic flow benefits motorists and increases pedestrian safety by increasing visibility.
There are three signs per 15 mph school zone. * one facing your direction of travel saying to go 15 mph * one saying to stop for children in the crosswalk * one facing opposing traffic saying to go 15 mph
This would indicate that the 15 mph only applies between the 15 mph sign and the "stop for children in crosswalk " sign. So technically the crosswalk is not the end, that sign is, but that sign is also located at the crosswalk.
I would be happy if people just slowed down to 15 at all.
Point of clarification - it says 'highway', so I had to look up what the definition of 'highway' means in AZ law - in fact, it also means city streets.
ARS §28-101(59) (definitions)
“Highway means the entire width between the boundary lines of every way publicly maintained when any part of the way is open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular travel.”
That is the quote from the law in OP's link. Are you wondering why the law says highway or how highway is defined underA.RS. title 28?
This is the answer. If read the law as if there was no sign in the middle.
Idk man, the drivers in Avondale don't slow down below 35 at any point when it is a 15 mph school zone.
Crosswalk is the end of the school zone for your direction of travel
Also NO PASSING is no passing the vehicle next to you in that zone. This is for two or more lanes.
Once you're through the crosswalk, you can legally accelerate to the speed limit of the road. The opposing sign can't count legally as its text isn't visible to you.
I’ve definitely seen “End School Zone” or something to that effect well beyond the crosswalk. I would have thought I need to maintain the reduced speed until that sign
Yeah, that's what I do.
My driving school instructor taught us between the signs is 15. I’ve always just followed that whether true or not seems more safe to be careful anyway since the kids just run into the road during drop off and pickup
Yep I had to take a driving class once and the instructor said that the enforceable zone is between the signs.
I just go to the end of the school zone since the signs are normally posted as you are entering the school zones.
Driver Ed classes says once you pass the crosswalk you can go back to 30 or whatever is posted for the schoolzone.
In traffic school years ago I learned in AZ the speed limit ends once through the intersection (just as the news piece states) but Glendale, and maybe other municipalities since I learned this, applies the speed limit all the way past the opposite sign.
Considering the nature of school zones, it would be wise to exercise heightened safety well before and after. You can’t undo running over a kid and might regret it for the rest of your life.
This is state law. Note the words “Notwithstanding any other law” specifically written in the statute. It does not and cannot differ by city.
This. Even though in most places it’s the crosswalk that ends the zone, staying at 15 mph for 100 more feet until the opposite direction sign is reached is what I do. I’d rather be a little extra cautious around kids.
I mean going 100 extra feet at 15mph than 30mph is going to cost you what? 10 seconds?
Exactly- a few seconds vs killing a child who darts into the road outside the crosswalk lines.
Between the signs... that you can read. You do not follow traffic signs that face the other direction.
15mph ends just past the crosswalk.
It's terrifying that some of you are allowed to drive.
This is the point of it all. The last signpost does not have a sign that faces you. So, yes, you go 15 between the first and second but not the third post.
Thanks dad
Also, if it's multi-lane going the same direction, vehicles are supposed to maintain their position. Meaning, if the guy in lane 1 is only going 12, the person in lane 2 isn't supposed to overtake them by going 15. No one follows this.
I believe the drivers book says to do 15 mph up to the second sign. The second sign would be at the crosswalk. I could be wrong.
Plus on a multi lane road you can't pass an adjacent car. Plus you must stop fully when a pedestrian is in any portion of the crosswalk
In the Chandler PD Citizens Academy, they told us it's the signs, not the markings.
I was always taught the signs were the point at which you slow down and speed up.
"Entering school zone" slow down.
"Leaving school zone" can speed up to posted speed limit.
After the crosswalk is what was taught to me in drivers school
The key phrase that controls everything:
“between the portable signs”
There is no language anywhere in §28-797 that extends the 15 mph restriction:
That omission is intentional.
Why the back-facing sign does not legally bind you
A sign facing the opposite direction cannot impose a legal duty on a driver who cannot reasonably read it.
Once your vehicle has passed the second portable sign, you are no longer in the regulated zone and may lawfully resume the posted speed (absent pedestrians still requiring a stop).
Why people think the rule is different
This confusion comes from three sources:
Are there any other Arizona statutes that change this?
No.
§28-797 is the controlling and exclusive statute for school crossings.
you type like chat gpt lmao
Ya got me.
You are correct.
It is also a no passing zone.
If it is two lanes in your direction and someone adjacent to you is going twelve miles an hour, or slowing to execute a right turn at an empty crosswalk, you may not overtake them even if you are at or under 15 mph
I have seen some school zones that actually have a sign some distance after (white with black lettering usually) that says "resume normal speed limit" or something to that effect. So, I would assume that those signs are what actually mark the end of the zone. But not every school seems to have them and I don't know why.
I usually get downvoted for saying stuff like this, but why not focus on safety rather than legality? How many seconds are you saving by speeding up immediately after the crosswalk instead of waiting a hundred or so feet?
I had to do traffic school once and the instructor explained that LEGALLY you can speed back up after the middle sign because you don’t have to follow signs that don’t face you, buuuut why not be a little safer in school cross walks and keep the lower speed for a little bit longer?
The crosswalk might be the legal spot to speed up but I always go all the way the next sign because I'm not a douchebag. I'm smart enough to know that the sign that I can't see is obviously 15 mph for oncoming traffic. There are so many inpatient a-holes in this city... slowing their asses down a little bit ain't going to kill them.
Idk but it's almost never enforced
I’ve seen plenty of people pulled over on 64th between Cactus and Shea in Scottsdale. And now they have one of those radar boxes
I guess theyre just filing the tickets at the city level then
My honest answer is if you cant handle driving at 15mph while outside a school (on both sides of the crosswalk as theres kids and kids do stupid things sometimes), then its a driving issue. Its not so much what the law says, its just common sense to take it easy until the chance of kids running out to cross the road is passed.
What I don't understand is why there has to be a school zone for the whole entire day when kids are only leaving/entering during certain times. Have a school zone around when school is starting and ending, sure. But who does it benefit to have it all day?
Common sense should tell you that a random kid might potentially sneak out of school or run off. There also might be a kid running late to get in.
And does nobody teach their kids not to run into traffic anymore? I know people here drive like maniacs most of the time but it would help things a lot if people would stop doing things like randomly sprinting across the road. Children are not exempt from this.
There's a whole subreddit called r/kidsarefuckingstupid for a reason
Edit: typo
I've seen some of the school zone signs on busier arterial 45mph roads have posted hours that coincide with school opening and closing, but I don't think I've ever seen it on the 25-30mph neighborhood roads.
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No, you had it right the first time. “Between the signs” means between the first portable sign indicating the 15 mph limit and that school is in session, which can be no more than 300 feet from the crosswalk, and the second portable sign at the crosswalk indicating to stop when children are in the crosswalk.
Both of us were correct. I read the law incorrectly.
My kids school has the signs and lots of people ignore them to the point where the city police once a month or so will sit there and pull people over. They're pulling them over from any point between the signs. Overall the length to slow down isn't that long.
I’ve usually seen signs after the crosswalk that say end of school zone and that’s when I start speeding back up
I do speed up after I pass the crosswalk, but I do it slowly.
I slow down in school zones not because of the signage but because I care about the safety of other people's children.
That this sign is needed and people still argue about it show how un-christian this society has become.
Lol how many Christians also break the rules tho? Don’t bring religion into this, there’s no need.
Christianity has nothing to to with it. You can be a decent person without believing in invisible sky people.
That has literally nothing to do with Christianity.
It’s always the ones with the CCV stickers breaking the rules.
Yea bud its un Christian to know how to drive
My issue is why cruise control does not work at 15mph? As you slow down to 15 prior to the first sign, be able to set cruise control so you can watch for kids not your speed.
You need cruise control for 100 feet or so?
I suspect it has to do with it being slow enough people could jump out and have the vehicle continue on cruise control. At 15 mph most every pedestrian strike is survivable, but at 20 mph mortality rates jump dramatically.
Simple. 15mph when you see the sign until you’re OUT OF THE SCHOOL ZONE MARKED WITH ANOTHER SIGN.
Fucking nerds that have an ambivalence to rules.
They don’t always have “end of school zone” signs tho.
That’s on your school district pal, might want to send a letter.
It’s the back of the other sign from oncoming traffic like the other person said. Driving school rules apply.
Its the crosswalk bud
There are no such signs where I go through. Calm down.
There is a school zone crossing with a left turn lane within it. Can the traffic preceding straight legally pass those vehicles stopped in the left turn lane. Everyone passes those vehicles in the left turn lane, but is that technically legal or not?
It's not as soon as you fully pass the crosswalk, it's as soon as the most forward part of your vehicle breaks the plane of the distant line.
Basically as soon as you're in the crosswalk, you can begin to accelerate safely. The danger of accidentally striking a child diminishes once you're in the place they're supposed to be absent from.
You're also not supposed to go any faster than any other vehicle in an adjacent lane (no passing), which is nearly always ignored.
There's seems to be a disconnect of common sense here. I know we're looking at the legality of the letter of the school crosswalk but the common sense approach is the School *ZONE is the speed limit of 15 within the zone and adjacent where student pedestrian involvement is which goes well beyond a simple crosswalk.
I mean, nobody in their right decent mind wants to hit a kid going to school. An idiot is going to speed just after a crosswalk in a school zone.
It’s independent of the school zone. It’s its own zone.
Do you have a map? Aside from that, it's just an intersection then.
I mean, anyone that can’t control themselves for three more seconds until they pass the second sign in a school zone probably shouldn’t be driving.
Dont listen to the people here you'll get in trouble. Anywhere between the signs, do not pass or speed up.
Wait these aren’t optional?
You are NOT reading the law correctly.
What do you do on a one way road when there isn't a sign on the other side of the crosswalk? Years ago Washington Street used to have children crossing it and that is when I realized this.
The law mentions "between the two portable signs" YES The sign stating 15MPH and the sign AT the crosswalk!!! You do not need to maintain 15 mph after the crosswalk .
What I have a problem with is people PASSING in the zone. If someone is making a left turn inside the zone you MUST stop even with their vehicle instead of passing. You may then proceed if clear.
I've always kept it at 15 between the signs. Had a friend who thought you had to maintain 15 until you passed the next posted speed limit sign which could be way down the street. I don't think her interpretation was correct.
Maybe 15 ends after the crosswalk, but I always figured it doesn't hurt to keep it slow between signs. You're not going to get where you're going much quicker.