Yes and also don’t forget that high density housing and/or people who rent are 100% criminals who are definitely going to rob me and I’m scared for my life
High density housing is not for me. Not for any kind of moral panic though. I just don't want to live around that many people. I already don't like having a neighbor on my left and right. I'd probably be a major AH if I had to live in a place packed with that many people.
One of the phrases I've grown to absolutely hate with a passion is "protect/increase property values." All that means to me is make housing more expensive for those who don't already have it. I wish we could stop treating homes as a fucking financial instrument and just make it something you can live in.
Back in 2005, we sold our house and rented in BF Gilbert (just north of Queen Creek). As you can imagine, there wasn't that much out there. However, Power Ranch was full of houses, dozens and dozens of them... mostly empty. It was eerie and we even could walk our dogs off-leash, in these gorgeous greenways that had been built, because we never saw anyone. However, the prices weren't that low enough for people to buy them. Or maybe, they weren't even being offered for sale for that reason. It was then that I realized there is more to all this than just supply and demand. It brought back the stories of companies dumping gallons of milk during the Great Depression.
Got a source for that? That’s a crazy claim for 60% of the market. I’d believe it more if you’re talking about mortgage companies selling the loan a few times, that happened to me with my first house. But not as insidious as you’re trying to allege.
For the last part the phoenix metro is growing, the geography allows for it. And increased supply should suppress rent. Unless I’m missing some phrasing
Now they get creative with fees! No rent increase on my last renewal, but now we have a $25/mo "smart home" fee. Smart home? We have a new, shitty (like lowest rated model) "smart" thermostat that you don't need to use internet to access, and a keypad lock instead of a key. So we get to pay an extra, taxable, $25/mo to access our front door and use our AC!
ETA: I live at a Greystar property. Ya know, one of the companies that got sued for the whole rent fixing thing.
My complex's latest one is a mandatory internet provider that is not optional, upon lease renewal you have to pay $70 extra a month, and you are required to let them install a wireless access point in the unit. The fee exists whether you use the service or not.
They also installed a giant network cabinet box on the outside of my unit, and the fans run 24/7, vibrating through my wall. I can hear it throughout my entire living room.
I guess all BH managed properties are doing it with Aerwave
Um, excuse me, but what the actual fuck? That is ridiculous. The small conspiracy theory node in my brain makes me wonder, *with absolutely no evidence or further information so I'm not being serious, if they're mining crypto and footing you with the cost.
It's been a pretty hilarious rollout, because the front office got a ridiculous number of complaints about it. They did some "meet and greets/webinars" with Aerwave, and the zoom links either didn't work, or no one showed up to the in-person deal. I guess very few people have actually signed up for it since it has gone live. I'm seeing a lot of open apartment units available here, far more than normal, and I'm 100% not renewing my lease when it comes up and I have to start paying for two ISPs at once.
Your link was to old.reddit. so it doesnt have the modern css stuff like dark mode. It was a shock to go from a burgundyish background to the stark white background of old reddit.
Mine did this last year all but forcing me off Cox which always worked well more or less. Ended up paying more for higher speeds I don't really need and it was annoying to arrange having it put in and rent a router. Worked out after that my own router was actually fine with the new fiber service and to their credit the new ISP made it pretty easy to return and take off the rental fee.
I have no ability to hook up a router or anything. It's just a wireless access point in my apartment, and you just connect all your devices to the wifi. Because of all my tech, there are some devices that don't have the ability to use wifi.
Oh fuck that. If I can’t trust an apartment management company to properly secure their buildings, I sure as hell am not trusting them to my network security
Oh fuck that, I basically have a magic ethernet cable full of internet coming out of my wall and can control everything after that. So if you have a sick wired gaming setup you have to change it to wifi?
That really does suck. These small ISPs go around advertising to complexes they can increase total income by putting these systems in and making it part of rent / an extra mandatory fee whether you want them or not. So annoying.
Mine also added a mandatory trash collecting service. Like I can't walk my own trash 30 feet to the dumpster. I hardly see anyone using it because it's more annoying to work around their schedule than just take out the trash whenever.
I mean, we have that too, trash, "smart home" fee, mailroom handling fee, and now this isp fee.. its silly. Comes out to about $200 on top of the normal rent.
There are routers that can be configured to use wifi as the WAN. It also offers you a bit more protection if they haven't configured their network properly.
I hate to break it to you, then, but whatever service you're using probably has you double NATed as well. If not more. They kind of have to in order to keep using IPV4.
We have something similar. Its a smart home fee + pest fee for $50/mo. If we dont like it, they will remove the fee/services, but charge something like a $40/mo admin fee instead. Seems like the only ones winning are big business.
Not to mention all of the non refundable “service fees” and “application fees” that AZ allows. By the time a landlord finally decides who to rent to, they’ve made more than enough in fees to cover any drop in rent, plus a ton.
Undisclosed fee for signing up for your rental property's package lockers
Paying for the complex's shared water despite waste and leaking and/or broken hoses, sprinklers (because we should totally landscape with grass and other heavy water users), and problems with the entire building's water lines.
Some places are charging additional internet or media fees, for trash "concierge" service, parking, etc.
This is why we switched to a house rental. We have exactly two fees, $35 to rent washer/dryer since it didn’t have one. And while yes a $20 smart home fee, it actually works well and includes a doorbell camera, thermostat and smart locks. The fees at our old apartment were insane(pest control, parking, smart home, appliances, lease lock fee, amenity fee, parcel, etc) and we paid the same all together in rent/utilities in our apartment versus a 2200sq ft 4bedroom house now.
My sister and I hope to rent a house next go around, we loved renting one back in college. So many are big rental company owned though, so it's getting just as bad as apartments I fear :/
Man I'd rip that right out and put in my own smart thermostat, tell them to get bent. I have a ring doorbell and a couple Amazon thermostats in my place I rent, but I just tell people they can use them or not, sure as heck not going to charge a fee.
They're still going to charge the fee regardless! Believe me, I tried. And I even sent in a complaint to the AG because this fee, as I see it, is essentially a charge to lock our door (no key anymore, just the battery powered lock...) or use our AC.
We had our own thermostat installed, a very basic Honeywell programmable thermostat I got for maybe $20 on Amazon. I had to replace it with the original one (you couldn't program it so good luck during peak hours) each inspection because they refused to upgrade for years, and installing our own was of course against policy. We tried to do the smart thermostat program through SRP so we could save on our bill, but nope. I'm assuming they're getting some kick back for being more energy efficient, but we get to pay extra. Fucking hell, man!
Whoever pays the electric bill should be getting the $50/year smart thermostat credit. If they're pocketing that, yeah, I'd for sure have words for them.
Greystar is an absolutely criminal cartel. I'm doing my best not to rent from them ever again, though sometimes it can't be avoided.
My rent also didn't go up when I renewed and I haven't SEEN any few fees yet (my building is with this outfit called Harbor Group Management) but I'm bracing myself for sticker shock from something I didn't squint at the fine print close enough to catch when my new lease term starts in February.
I had an apartment in Phoenix that in 2019 charged me 1300, and by 2023 was asking for 2100. I left, and now that same apartment is renting for 1500. Fucking losers.
I started renting a house (2350 sq. ft.) In a very nice neighborhood in Gilbert in 2020 that was at 2400$ for the first year and then 2500 the next year then 2600 the third year then 2700 the fourth year. Then last year they tried to raise it again and I called and complained they had raised it every year and housing was actually going down. So they kept it at 2700. I then began to look at purchasing a home more seriously. This year I felt it was the right time. I got into a home that was larger in Mesa (3500 sq. ft. on almost a half acre lot)for the almost same amount of money as the rental (2750). Now I own. And the rental just went back on the market for 2300. Greedy ass landlord cut off his nose to spite his face. I had kids in school for two and a half more years and moving is a pain in the ass. If he had just kept it at the original 2400 I’d most likely still be there and he wouldn’t be out two months rent so far that it’s been empty. And who knows how long it will stay empty.
I have a place I bought in 2009 and lived in for a decade then I got married and we moved out of the 980sq ft condo into a place in Arcadia. I have had two renters since then after leaving it vacant for a year while I dragged my feet and eventually remodeled and rented it. My first tenant, I found out after the fact was in my circle of friends and family and was very happy till the arrangement didn’t work for her. She was a single mom and mentioned how the neighborhood could be a bit rough at times so I installed a door bell camera at no charge. Never even thought to charge her as I was desperate to keep a good tenant and not go hunting for someone who took such good care of my place. My current tenants are a young couple who have been equally responsible with my place and it’s worth more than an extra hundred bucks a month a year having the piece of mind my place is being taken care of, probably better than I did to be honest. I worked for a small time slum lord we would buy a place and kick out a small handful of the cheapest established tenants/month to month leases remodel them and increase the price on those units and kick out the rest then rinse and repeat for the rest of the place. Never sat well with me.
Thank Christ. I need to move out of my overpriced shithole apartment but there hasn’t been anything affordably priced for me. Me thinks it’s time to go back to Mesa
I love Mesa and I don't understand why people act like it's a crime ridden shit hole. Sure it has its shady areas but that's true of every city in the PHX area besides maybe Scottsdale lol.
Mesa has some awesome areas. The area beyond Dobson is very nice.
I looked up the area where a business associate used to live near Osborn + Scottsdale Road (so near Downtown Scottsdale, more desirable).
It looks like the "cheap" houses are around $600K on Zillow.
I was recently in the area down around Curry + Scottsdale Road, near the 202, and it looks like some of those are $400K on Zillow. This was a visibly worse area then up by Osborn.
Scottsdale probably has more crime than the rest of the Phoenix metro area. It's just white collar crimes so they're not treated as the real harm that they are
What are people looking for these days? I have a townhouse in Tempe that a couple of great tenants just left in November after a few years renting from me. It's only been on he market for about a week, so I'd love to get some input on what qualifies as decent these days. FWIW, my place was built 2008, upgraded everything in 2010, so it's not "new" but it's been well cared for.
That's actually doable. It's not for rent right now but I have another condo in Tempe that is around that $1600 mark. A lot also will depend on age of the place and the city it is in. Tempe tends to be more expensive because of the property taxes and the fact it's often close to ASU which drives up prices...it really *shouldn't* because not all students can afford it either, though.
$2200 for 3 bed 3 bath, 2 car garage plus 1 parking space. Private second floor balcony. It's not cheap for sure, but same as I've charged since we moved in 2020 to our current place. Part of the reason it's in such good shape is we lived there for 10 years as well so it was well maintained.
People are looking for affordable housing, and with all due respect, not many are going to be looking to give advice to landlords on how to service the debt of their mortgaged investment property on to someone else.
Interesting point...would you opinion be more or less harsh if the property wasn't mortgaged? I feel if it wasn't, you'd say now they're in it for pure profit...which I suppose is true to a point. Remember, even if a place isn't mortgaged, there's still HOA fees, property taxes, maintenance. It's certainly not just money in someone else's pocket. And if it is paid off, they still had to put that money into the property at some point to purchase it. What I don't like to see is landlords that take the money and just let the property go to hell. If I wouldn't want to live there, I wouldn't want someone else to live there, either.
It’s a very nuanced conversation, and I meant no offense to you as a person as the systemic issues that are facing homeownership as an essential part of the American dream are multi-faceted, and you very well could be earnest and honest about your personal situation.
When there are estimates of private equity firms owning 40% of the housing market by 2030, when including apartments and other multi-family domiciles, there are larger fish to fry.
I still hold to the point that owning second or third homes as investments for renting or vacation properties during a housing shortage and historic housing prices is absolutely exacerbating the issue. I also am not really sympathetic to the comparative luxury of the issues you face owning a second property, when others are susceptible to the outrageous renting market, mortgage rates, and inflated property values.
And I understand it’s not easy to get into a home. In our situation both my wife and I purchased homes before we met each other in around 2010 and it for us has worked out better to just rent them out rather than sell them. I know a lot of people would consider that selfish and not helping the market. At the same time though I wouldn’t be selling the property at the same price I bought it at either so I’d certainly be making money, but at the same time taking away a source of income. We all have to do what is right for our individual situation. I just am not in this to get rich, and I like to try and rent at what is reasonable towards my expenses and to keep the property in good condition. As I mentioned I wouldn’t ever rent a place to someone I wouldn’t want to live I myself. Everyone deserves a properly maintained, safe place to live.
As a person who rents from a private owner, I don't think it's selfish at all. People like you (or the owner of my place) aren't causing the problem. It makes things more affordable (in my opinion) than renting from one of the big conglomerates.
When everyone's rent was going up $400+/year, my rent went up $50, and that was because the insurance went up.
I love my place, and besides my parents place that I grew up in, I've lived here the longest in my life.
So, keep doing what you're doing. Landlords aren't inherently evil like reddit likes to think.
Housing that costs no more than 30% of the household gross income, including utilities. This has been drastically difficult to come by, since home prices have doubled the pace of wages since the mid 1960’s. It also disproportionately affects younger generations, whom are also trying to have children and see other financial barriers that weren’t affecting previous generations as much.
Something *should* be done about that. Have to elect people who will do something about that though. When was the last federal minimum wage increase? 2009 I think? Meanwhile Congress keeps raising their own pay and benefits with no regards for their constituents. It's a complete load.
I’m a renter and I’m never just looking at price. I’m looking at the maintenance, the schools in the area, the safety & security. If rent is low but your landlord is impossible to get ahold of & you’ve got neighbors that party all night.. not worth the rent savings.
After that, there should be plenty of easily accessible outlets. There should be a newer faucet and ideally deeper sink. No one really cares how "nice" the counters are so long as they aren't cracked, dingy, and gross. A home last upgraded in 2010 likely needs all the basics like new shower heads and faucets, cabinets either refinished or new ones fitted (and make sure the doors are actually level and stay closed oooomg), new carpets or even better a nice tile or laminate, new paint, check for cracks in the ceiling etc. Windows could probably be upgraded if they're single pane (I mean, it's Tempe ffs), make sure the thermostat is programmable, and there is adequate lighting. Don't make your townhome look like every other bland, millennial grey apartment with recessed lighting and tan walls.
Those are the basics, make it livable and lovable rather than sterile and overpriced.
It’s not so easy I bought place in 2014 a couple blocks off van buren to do section 8 and the tenants just wrecked my shit over and over again. One guy was letting someone hook up an RV and my dumbass thinking the extra like $150 you get if you include utilities a month would help was nothing compared to the bill I got that month. Then one night I was checking on the property and I was in me of the back yard and some drug addict was hiding in the shadow and I didn’t see him till I was standing over him for a good thirty seconds and my eyes adjusted. I’m all for cheap housing but you need to build and run it like a prison, for it to not be operated at a loss. Concrete and metal everything no stick and drywall
I mean... There's a big jump between a nice but affordable townhome and section 8. My mom's had some miserable tenants, but also absolutely wonderful ones (she just rents a room in our childhood home).
For sure I know I need to change a faucet or two. I’ve always been able to replace the o rings before this year but at their age it’s going to be a replacement. Same for the carpets.
No gray though? I gusss we painted our house gray in 2020 but it’s out again. Is brown good again?
My complex is offering 2 months free plus $XX off so that they don’t have to lower the monthly rents in a strategy to keep them all high (Mark Taylor). It’s really going to suck on renewal.
Part of the issue is the owner of that house may have a $2,500 mortgage or higher. Some people are trying to get as much as they can, but others are just trying to break even.
The owner of that house probably bought the property with the intent of making it an AirBnB, slowly realized that it’s not profitable, and is now overcharging rent to make up for it
There are a lot of people in that position. When a couple gets married and they both have a house they might have to decide what to do with the extra. Renting is an option. Also the same when you relocate for work or a number of other life events for people which aren’t speculators.
Sometimes a house is just difficult to sell and renting it makes things easier. Also there are small expensive homes which can justify $3k rent.
I'm not arguing or saying you're wrong; just noting that many people don't own or have a mortgage when they get married. Sometimes one or both of these houses in said situation dont exist. I don't have a handle on the percentages... Just a point.
There are a lot of factors here, it’s difficult to say. A small house in Arcadia for example is going to sell for at least $1m, if you get a normal mortgage that house will cost you $5k a month or more. So in that case $3k per month is a bargain. Whereas in Avondale it a cheap house may only cost $300k or $1.5 per month.
Yeah if I were to rent out my similarly sized home I’d need 3k just to pretty much break even or make a few bucks a year. Hence why I don’t and won’t cause I wouldn’t really expect anyone to pay that (I wouldn’t). I also have no plans to move out anytime soon so it’s just a thought exercise
The rents are down on average since last year according to the article. In practice most people who are renting will probably see higher rents anyway because the corporate landlords know that existing tenants are less likely to move.
I live in a 1650sf home that was remodeled in 2021 near Scottsdale road and McDowell… $2,095/mo🤷♀️ signed the lease in January of this year too, so they’re out there. Private landlord as well 🙌
Yeah January of 2025 was better than now. We’re paying 2850 for 2200 square feet in a nice neighborhood. People are renting places out half the size for more this year. But, nobody is biting.
Didnt read the article, but AZ Attorney Genral did crack down on price fixing between like 7 of the largest rental companies in the state. How much of this is just a result of that?
And if there is a punishment it will likely be minimal. Holding companies accountable is not really something we do here. Hell they’ll probably just keep doing what they’re doing but not be so blatant about it
The effect this price collusion had has been overstated by people on this sub and beyond. Anything to convince yourselves that none of your neighborhoods have to undergo any change to lower prices, just defeat the big bad colluding corporations and everything will be okay. Well it's not true, for housing to be cheaper the city and the neighborhoods in it will have to continue changing and keep getting denser. Not as comforting, but it's true.
They had to stop colluding and rents are going down the same time as literally everything else is skyrocketing. There's some pretty good evidence of the effect they were having there.
I just moved out of a brand new 2024 built corporate apt complex after they raised my rent in October. The parking lot at night was basically empty. I turned my key in and met the new manager. Sat and talked awhile when we realized we grew up a few miles apart. Anyhow, they brought him in from out of town to "turn the place around" because he confessed occupancy was hovering around 35%.
All those new buildings are built by companies looking to be property speculators, not apartment operators. So, the scam is they get construction loans based on proposed Cap rate. Let's say its 100 units, and it cost $20M to build. To get a 6% Cap rate, that means each unit needs to make $12k of operating income annually. Now mind you, they don't care about the rental income per se. What they really want to be able to say is that now that the building is operational, they've figured out how to get the Cap rate to 4%, so someone else will buy the property, which would now be worth $30M vs. $20M in construction loans. Easiest way to do this is to advertise higher rents, regardless of occupancy, especially if the buyer is just another property speculator who assumes they can 'fix' the occupancy.
I moved from Fl to TX to phx. lol Miami > Austin > Phoenix. With a short stop from Miami > Dal > Miami before that. Mainly cause DFW sucked.. though I have to admit Dallas and Phoenix have a lot in common.
Austin is fun. Florida is nice, but so damn expensive. Miami will always be home, but Phoenix is where I'd rather live.
Our rent is going up. The apartment manager told us that the management company needs to make up for the money they’ve been losing, so current residents are being asked to pay more when renewing. And everything around us is even more expensive. So frustrating.
Building literally thousands and thousands of units the competition begins, in the final analysis they will have thousands of empty units, in other parts of the valley you can see what happened from 10-15 years ago, units that are run down, no maintenance, no rules ie: busted down vehicles, many on blocks, doing oil changes just dumping the oil anywhere, pretty sad, landlords don’t care just pay your rent. But they say it won’t happen here, our apartments are high class, yeah until they need the money.
As someone that moved here relatively recently, two things stand out.
One, rent compared to where I came from is comparable which should not be the case for the access they Phoenix has. Meaning that I moved to city 10x larger and the prices are the same. That means supply is massive, so prices are kept down. That’s a good thing overall.
Anyone else drive by those new small build apartments at Osborn & 15th Ave that originally advertised “starting at…” I forgot the number but it was waaaaaaay higher than it should have been.
A year later, we’d drive by & only see lights on in one unit. “The Lucia” I think it’s called. It’s been there now for a couple of years & still looks mostly empty.
What ya know, real estate development isn’t an infinite money glitch and if you build more units prices drop.
I mean isn't that why the nimbys fight tooth and nail against any new development, especially higher density?
Yes and also don’t forget that high density housing and/or people who rent are 100% criminals who are definitely going to rob me and I’m scared for my life
more like "the track home I paid $200k for 10 years ago might not have a 5x price increase what about mah equity"
But buying my house was my entire financial/retirement plan!
That's why you should buy my 1200sqft 2br 2ba in the bad part of town for $400,000.
its better then renting! /s
High density housing is not for me. Not for any kind of moral panic though. I just don't want to live around that many people. I already don't like having a neighbor on my left and right. I'd probably be a major AH if I had to live in a place packed with that many people.
One of the phrases I've grown to absolutely hate with a passion is "protect/increase property values." All that means to me is make housing more expensive for those who don't already have it. I wish we could stop treating homes as a fucking financial instrument and just make it something you can live in.
Back in 2005, we sold our house and rented in BF Gilbert (just north of Queen Creek). As you can imagine, there wasn't that much out there. However, Power Ranch was full of houses, dozens and dozens of them... mostly empty. It was eerie and we even could walk our dogs off-leash, in these gorgeous greenways that had been built, because we never saw anyone. However, the prices weren't that low enough for people to buy them. Or maybe, they weren't even being offered for sale for that reason. It was then that I realized there is more to all this than just supply and demand. It brought back the stories of companies dumping gallons of milk during the Great Depression.
Something like 3 out of 5 homes in the US are or were bought by entities and people that never step inside them.
Got a source for that? That’s a crazy claim for 60% of the market. I’d believe it more if you’re talking about mortgage companies selling the loan a few times, that happened to me with my first house. But not as insidious as you’re trying to allege.
BS. You have no data for that claim
People will get stuck with the bag. Big banks will get bailed out.
If you build it, they won’t come.
Could the reality be that demand fell off because everybody got laid off last quarter?
Could demand have fallen because immigrant and temporary workers and visitors are exiting the rental market?
Housing stock seems sort of 1 dimensional to assign fault to.
Phoenix isn't growing, it's land locked, whyd rents go down there? Gilbert has grown its supply quite a bit, why did rent go up there?
For the last part the phoenix metro is growing, the geography allows for it. And increased supply should suppress rent. Unless I’m missing some phrasing
Now they get creative with fees! No rent increase on my last renewal, but now we have a $25/mo "smart home" fee. Smart home? We have a new, shitty (like lowest rated model) "smart" thermostat that you don't need to use internet to access, and a keypad lock instead of a key. So we get to pay an extra, taxable, $25/mo to access our front door and use our AC!
ETA: I live at a Greystar property. Ya know, one of the companies that got sued for the whole rent fixing thing.
Yessss, this comment right here. The fees are outrageous
This 100% should be illegal. It wasn't asked for and it doesn't improve anything, why should we be forced to pay for it?
My complex's latest one is a mandatory internet provider that is not optional, upon lease renewal you have to pay $70 extra a month, and you are required to let them install a wireless access point in the unit. The fee exists whether you use the service or not.
They also installed a giant network cabinet box on the outside of my unit, and the fans run 24/7, vibrating through my wall. I can hear it throughout my entire living room.
I guess all BH managed properties are doing it with Aerwave
Um, excuse me, but what the actual fuck? That is ridiculous. The small conspiracy theory node in my brain makes me wonder, *with absolutely no evidence or further information so I'm not being serious, if they're mining crypto and footing you with the cost.
*I felt like I had to include that just in case.
It's been a pretty hilarious rollout, because the front office got a ridiculous number of complaints about it. They did some "meet and greets/webinars" with Aerwave, and the zoom links either didn't work, or no one showed up to the in-person deal. I guess very few people have actually signed up for it since it has gone live. I'm seeing a lot of open apartment units available here, far more than normal, and I'm 100% not renewing my lease when it comes up and I have to start paying for two ISPs at once.
Here's a bit more info on it from others-
https://old.reddit.com/r/Charlotte/comments/yv6wmi/anyone_heard_of_aerwave_fiber_internet_my_complex/
Oof. Not having dark mode made me feel like I had returned to the stone age... lol
???
Your link was to old.reddit. so it doesnt have the modern css stuff like dark mode. It was a shock to go from a burgundyish background to the stark white background of old reddit.
I'm using dark mode right now with old.reddit - just download RES.
Mine did this last year all but forcing me off Cox which always worked well more or less. Ended up paying more for higher speeds I don't really need and it was annoying to arrange having it put in and rent a router. Worked out after that my own router was actually fine with the new fiber service and to their credit the new ISP made it pretty easy to return and take off the rental fee.
I have no ability to hook up a router or anything. It's just a wireless access point in my apartment, and you just connect all your devices to the wifi. Because of all my tech, there are some devices that don't have the ability to use wifi.
Oh fuck that. If I can’t trust an apartment management company to properly secure their buildings, I sure as hell am not trusting them to my network security
Oh fuck that, I basically have a magic ethernet cable full of internet coming out of my wall and can control everything after that. So if you have a sick wired gaming setup you have to change it to wifi?
I mean-- I don't use it at all. I have my Cox setup just as its always been. The Aerwave equipment just sits on the ceiling doing nothing.
But yes, if you need to obtain internet access through it, wifi only, after creating an account with them and setting up the mobile app.
That really does suck. These small ISPs go around advertising to complexes they can increase total income by putting these systems in and making it part of rent / an extra mandatory fee whether you want them or not. So annoying.
Mine also added a mandatory trash collecting service. Like I can't walk my own trash 30 feet to the dumpster. I hardly see anyone using it because it's more annoying to work around their schedule than just take out the trash whenever.
I mean, we have that too, trash, "smart home" fee, mailroom handling fee, and now this isp fee.. its silly. Comes out to about $200 on top of the normal rent.
There are routers that can be configured to use wifi as the WAN. It also offers you a bit more protection if they haven't configured their network properly.
Double NAT, no thanks
Good luck with your neighbors browsing your files.
I refuse to use it, so no issue from me. Never even setup an account.
I hate to break it to you, then, but whatever service you're using probably has you double NATed as well. If not more. They kind of have to in order to keep using IPV4.
Absolutely, but I'm sure you know there are different levels of NAT, and putting a SoHo router after a SoHo router is one of the worst types.
We have something similar. Its a smart home fee + pest fee for $50/mo. If we dont like it, they will remove the fee/services, but charge something like a $40/mo admin fee instead. Seems like the only ones winning are big business.
Not to mention all of the non refundable “service fees” and “application fees” that AZ allows. By the time a landlord finally decides who to rent to, they’ve made more than enough in fees to cover any drop in rent, plus a ton.
$50-100 application fee per resident
$200 "cleaning fee"
$600 deposit, plus last month's rent
$250 nonrefundable pet deposit
$50 monthly "pet rent"
Undisclosed fee for signing up for your rental property's package lockers
Paying for the complex's shared water despite waste and leaking and/or broken hoses, sprinklers (because we should totally landscape with grass and other heavy water users), and problems with the entire building's water lines.
Some places are charging additional internet or media fees, for trash "concierge" service, parking, etc.
A landlord I met at a house showing told me some landlords do this. Just collect 50 dollar fees and pick nobody
I've definitely been scammed by a few of those.
This is why we switched to a house rental. We have exactly two fees, $35 to rent washer/dryer since it didn’t have one. And while yes a $20 smart home fee, it actually works well and includes a doorbell camera, thermostat and smart locks. The fees at our old apartment were insane(pest control, parking, smart home, appliances, lease lock fee, amenity fee, parcel, etc) and we paid the same all together in rent/utilities in our apartment versus a 2200sq ft 4bedroom house now.
My sister and I hope to rent a house next go around, we loved renting one back in college. So many are big rental company owned though, so it's getting just as bad as apartments I fear :/
We are renting through Tricon if that helps. Communication is hit or miss but overall am satisfied.
Man I'd rip that right out and put in my own smart thermostat, tell them to get bent. I have a ring doorbell and a couple Amazon thermostats in my place I rent, but I just tell people they can use them or not, sure as heck not going to charge a fee.
They're still going to charge the fee regardless! Believe me, I tried. And I even sent in a complaint to the AG because this fee, as I see it, is essentially a charge to lock our door (no key anymore, just the battery powered lock...) or use our AC.
We had our own thermostat installed, a very basic Honeywell programmable thermostat I got for maybe $20 on Amazon. I had to replace it with the original one (you couldn't program it so good luck during peak hours) each inspection because they refused to upgrade for years, and installing our own was of course against policy. We tried to do the smart thermostat program through SRP so we could save on our bill, but nope. I'm assuming they're getting some kick back for being more energy efficient, but we get to pay extra. Fucking hell, man!
Whoever pays the electric bill should be getting the $50/year smart thermostat credit. If they're pocketing that, yeah, I'd for sure have words for them.
Greystar is an absolutely criminal cartel. I'm doing my best not to rent from them ever again, though sometimes it can't be avoided.
My rent also didn't go up when I renewed and I haven't SEEN any few fees yet (my building is with this outfit called Harbor Group Management) but I'm bracing myself for sticker shock from something I didn't squint at the fine print close enough to catch when my new lease term starts in February.
I had an apartment in Phoenix that in 2019 charged me 1300, and by 2023 was asking for 2100. I left, and now that same apartment is renting for 1500. Fucking losers.
I started renting a house (2350 sq. ft.) In a very nice neighborhood in Gilbert in 2020 that was at 2400$ for the first year and then 2500 the next year then 2600 the third year then 2700 the fourth year. Then last year they tried to raise it again and I called and complained they had raised it every year and housing was actually going down. So they kept it at 2700. I then began to look at purchasing a home more seriously. This year I felt it was the right time. I got into a home that was larger in Mesa (3500 sq. ft. on almost a half acre lot)for the almost same amount of money as the rental (2750). Now I own. And the rental just went back on the market for 2300. Greedy ass landlord cut off his nose to spite his face. I had kids in school for two and a half more years and moving is a pain in the ass. If he had just kept it at the original 2400 I’d most likely still be there and he wouldn’t be out two months rent so far that it’s been empty. And who knows how long it will stay empty.
I have a place I bought in 2009 and lived in for a decade then I got married and we moved out of the 980sq ft condo into a place in Arcadia. I have had two renters since then after leaving it vacant for a year while I dragged my feet and eventually remodeled and rented it. My first tenant, I found out after the fact was in my circle of friends and family and was very happy till the arrangement didn’t work for her. She was a single mom and mentioned how the neighborhood could be a bit rough at times so I installed a door bell camera at no charge. Never even thought to charge her as I was desperate to keep a good tenant and not go hunting for someone who took such good care of my place. My current tenants are a young couple who have been equally responsible with my place and it’s worth more than an extra hundred bucks a month a year having the piece of mind my place is being taken care of, probably better than I did to be honest. I worked for a small time slum lord we would buy a place and kick out a small handful of the cheapest established tenants/month to month leases remodel them and increase the price on those units and kick out the rest then rinse and repeat for the rest of the place. Never sat well with me.
the rent hikes over the past two years were so egregious and the backpedaling has been so satisfying to watch
Thank Christ. I need to move out of my overpriced shithole apartment but there hasn’t been anything affordably priced for me. Me thinks it’s time to go back to Mesa
I love Mesa and I don't understand why people act like it's a crime ridden shit hole. Sure it has its shady areas but that's true of every city in the PHX area besides maybe Scottsdale lol.
Mesa has some awesome areas. The area beyond Dobson is very nice.
S. Scottsdale has some areas that are worse than a lot of areas in the valley.
Crime-wise I don't know but in terms of how the houses look and are maintained by the owners.
TIL! I wonder what the price comparison between the worst area of Scottsdale and the best area of Mesa would be. Probably infuriatingly close
I looked up the area where a business associate used to live near Osborn + Scottsdale Road (so near Downtown Scottsdale, more desirable). It looks like the "cheap" houses are around $600K on Zillow.
I was recently in the area down around Curry + Scottsdale Road, near the 202, and it looks like some of those are $400K on Zillow. This was a visibly worse area then up by Osborn.
Scottsdale probably has more crime than the rest of the Phoenix metro area. It's just white collar crimes so they're not treated as the real harm that they are
What are people looking for these days? I have a townhouse in Tempe that a couple of great tenants just left in November after a few years renting from me. It's only been on he market for about a week, so I'd love to get some input on what qualifies as decent these days. FWIW, my place was built 2008, upgraded everything in 2010, so it's not "new" but it's been well cared for.
Price. Price, price, price. The price. Price.
I’m looking for a two bedroom apartment for less than $1600 a month. That’s just me though
That's actually doable. It's not for rent right now but I have another condo in Tempe that is around that $1600 mark. A lot also will depend on age of the place and the city it is in. Tempe tends to be more expensive because of the property taxes and the fact it's often close to ASU which drives up prices...it really *shouldn't* because not all students can afford it either, though.
Okay what’s the rent price ?
$2200 for 3 bed 3 bath, 2 car garage plus 1 parking space. Private second floor balcony. It's not cheap for sure, but same as I've charged since we moved in 2020 to our current place. Part of the reason it's in such good shape is we lived there for 10 years as well so it was well maintained.
Also inside a gated community, 2 community pools, hot tubs, dog park, private 24 hour security.
That seems plenty reasonable at least based on the description tbh
People are looking for affordable housing, and with all due respect, not many are going to be looking to give advice to landlords on how to service the debt of their mortgaged investment property on to someone else.
Interesting point...would you opinion be more or less harsh if the property wasn't mortgaged? I feel if it wasn't, you'd say now they're in it for pure profit...which I suppose is true to a point. Remember, even if a place isn't mortgaged, there's still HOA fees, property taxes, maintenance. It's certainly not just money in someone else's pocket. And if it is paid off, they still had to put that money into the property at some point to purchase it. What I don't like to see is landlords that take the money and just let the property go to hell. If I wouldn't want to live there, I wouldn't want someone else to live there, either.
It’s a very nuanced conversation, and I meant no offense to you as a person as the systemic issues that are facing homeownership as an essential part of the American dream are multi-faceted, and you very well could be earnest and honest about your personal situation.
When there are estimates of private equity firms owning 40% of the housing market by 2030, when including apartments and other multi-family domiciles, there are larger fish to fry.
I still hold to the point that owning second or third homes as investments for renting or vacation properties during a housing shortage and historic housing prices is absolutely exacerbating the issue. I also am not really sympathetic to the comparative luxury of the issues you face owning a second property, when others are susceptible to the outrageous renting market, mortgage rates, and inflated property values.
And I understand it’s not easy to get into a home. In our situation both my wife and I purchased homes before we met each other in around 2010 and it for us has worked out better to just rent them out rather than sell them. I know a lot of people would consider that selfish and not helping the market. At the same time though I wouldn’t be selling the property at the same price I bought it at either so I’d certainly be making money, but at the same time taking away a source of income. We all have to do what is right for our individual situation. I just am not in this to get rich, and I like to try and rent at what is reasonable towards my expenses and to keep the property in good condition. As I mentioned I wouldn’t ever rent a place to someone I wouldn’t want to live I myself. Everyone deserves a properly maintained, safe place to live.
As a person who rents from a private owner, I don't think it's selfish at all. People like you (or the owner of my place) aren't causing the problem. It makes things more affordable (in my opinion) than renting from one of the big conglomerates.
When everyone's rent was going up $400+/year, my rent went up $50, and that was because the insurance went up.
I love my place, and besides my parents place that I grew up in, I've lived here the longest in my life.
So, keep doing what you're doing. Landlords aren't inherently evil like reddit likes to think.
It turns out that passive incomes need to be paid by somebody. You're describing someone who decided that poor people should do the paying.
what is "affordable"?
Housing that costs no more than 30% of the household gross income, including utilities. This has been drastically difficult to come by, since home prices have doubled the pace of wages since the mid 1960’s. It also disproportionately affects younger generations, whom are also trying to have children and see other financial barriers that weren’t affecting previous generations as much.
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Something *should* be done about that. Have to elect people who will do something about that though. When was the last federal minimum wage increase? 2009 I think? Meanwhile Congress keeps raising their own pay and benefits with no regards for their constituents. It's a complete load.
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I’m a renter and I’m never just looking at price. I’m looking at the maintenance, the schools in the area, the safety & security. If rent is low but your landlord is impossible to get ahold of & you’ve got neighbors that party all night.. not worth the rent savings.
Affordable housing first.
After that, there should be plenty of easily accessible outlets. There should be a newer faucet and ideally deeper sink. No one really cares how "nice" the counters are so long as they aren't cracked, dingy, and gross. A home last upgraded in 2010 likely needs all the basics like new shower heads and faucets, cabinets either refinished or new ones fitted (and make sure the doors are actually level and stay closed oooomg), new carpets or even better a nice tile or laminate, new paint, check for cracks in the ceiling etc. Windows could probably be upgraded if they're single pane (I mean, it's Tempe ffs), make sure the thermostat is programmable, and there is adequate lighting. Don't make your townhome look like every other bland, millennial grey apartment with recessed lighting and tan walls.
Those are the basics, make it livable and lovable rather than sterile and overpriced.
It’s not so easy I bought place in 2014 a couple blocks off van buren to do section 8 and the tenants just wrecked my shit over and over again. One guy was letting someone hook up an RV and my dumbass thinking the extra like $150 you get if you include utilities a month would help was nothing compared to the bill I got that month. Then one night I was checking on the property and I was in me of the back yard and some drug addict was hiding in the shadow and I didn’t see him till I was standing over him for a good thirty seconds and my eyes adjusted. I’m all for cheap housing but you need to build and run it like a prison, for it to not be operated at a loss. Concrete and metal everything no stick and drywall
I mean... There's a big jump between a nice but affordable townhome and section 8. My mom's had some miserable tenants, but also absolutely wonderful ones (she just rents a room in our childhood home).
For sure I know I need to change a faucet or two. I’ve always been able to replace the o rings before this year but at their age it’s going to be a replacement. Same for the carpets.
No gray though? I gusss we painted our house gray in 2020 but it’s out again. Is brown good again?
My complex is offering 2 months free plus $XX off so that they don’t have to lower the monthly rents in a strategy to keep them all high (Mark Taylor). It’s really going to suck on renewal.
Yes I’ve noticed that! Some places are sticking to their high prices and offering free months.
These greedy people couldn’t be any worse
Mark Taylor is trash, we are stuck with them right now too.
At least my complex is clean, safe, & pest-free. A far cry from Western Wealth Communities or the Robinson Group. They are literal scum.
I wish I could say the same lol. This property in particular has an insane amount of issues and management has been utterly useless.
Honestly though, most of these property management companies are crap in one way or another. Everyone's mileage will vary.
I’ve seen the reviews on some other MT properties and I think we’re one of the luckier ones. They really do all suck.
Yet a 1500 square foot house that hasn’t been updated since the 80s can still be listed for over 3k a month in Phoenix.
Part of the issue is the owner of that house may have a $2,500 mortgage or higher. Some people are trying to get as much as they can, but others are just trying to break even.
The owner of that house probably bought the property with the intent of making it an AirBnB, slowly realized that it’s not profitable, and is now overcharging rent to make up for it
There are a lot of people in that position. When a couple gets married and they both have a house they might have to decide what to do with the extra. Renting is an option. Also the same when you relocate for work or a number of other life events for people which aren’t speculators.
Sometimes a house is just difficult to sell and renting it makes things easier. Also there are small expensive homes which can justify $3k rent.
I'm not arguing or saying you're wrong; just noting that many people don't own or have a mortgage when they get married. Sometimes one or both of these houses in said situation dont exist. I don't have a handle on the percentages... Just a point.
Those property speculators should sell.
Sounds like they should just sell it instead of driving up rent prices for a loan they shouldn't have taken out.
Yeah. They overpaid in the first place. Honestly, that’s their problem. There’s a reason people aren’t renting those houses.
There are a lot of factors here, it’s difficult to say. A small house in Arcadia for example is going to sell for at least $1m, if you get a normal mortgage that house will cost you $5k a month or more. So in that case $3k per month is a bargain. Whereas in Avondale it a cheap house may only cost $300k or $1.5 per month.
I bet alot are less as they bought before run up or refinance to sub 3% interest rates
Yeah if I were to rent out my similarly sized home I’d need 3k just to pretty much break even or make a few bucks a year. Hence why I don’t and won’t cause I wouldn’t really expect anyone to pay that (I wouldn’t). I also have no plans to move out anytime soon so it’s just a thought exercise
Maybe they should sell it instead. You know, if they can't afford it.
Turns out that if prices unreasonably skyrocket for years, eventually a tiny price drop makes at least some sense
Actually the rent was better two years ago. Even last year it was better.
The rents are down on average since last year according to the article. In practice most people who are renting will probably see higher rents anyway because the corporate landlords know that existing tenants are less likely to move.
I live in a 1650sf home that was remodeled in 2021 near Scottsdale road and McDowell… $2,095/mo🤷♀️ signed the lease in January of this year too, so they’re out there. Private landlord as well 🙌
Yeah January of 2025 was better than now. We’re paying 2850 for 2200 square feet in a nice neighborhood. People are renting places out half the size for more this year. But, nobody is biting.
I mean I think it’s pretty similar as this time last year.
2000 sq fy is going for 4k plus now
I guarantee you I can find less.
Sure you could in certain areas.
1287 homes on Zillow right now that are priced under $3k for 2ksqft. I think you're exaggerating just a wee bit.
I’m paying $3000 a month for a fully furnished, updated temporary (3 month) rental. It has a big yard & a pool. Updated and decorated nicely.
How many square feet?
1400
That’s insane.
3k for that is robbery. The apartment I had before the studio I have now was the same size and 1300 after utilities.
This includes all utilities even internet. It is a house with a yard & a private pool.
I'm sorry but it's still a rip off
A short term fully furnished rental is going to be a lot more expensive than your typical 12+ month lease without furniture included
Tell my landlord
Cant wait to home prices to follow too.
Didnt read the article, but AZ Attorney Genral did crack down on price fixing between like 7 of the largest rental companies in the state. How much of this is just a result of that?
That litigation is ongoing.
And if there is a punishment it will likely be minimal. Holding companies accountable is not really something we do here. Hell they’ll probably just keep doing what they’re doing but not be so blatant about it
I thought they settled for a laughably small sum
That was the DOJ. AZ has their own ongoing case.
Oh, that's wonderful! I mean, not that the DOJ settled for a low amount... you know what I mean ha
Probably none, it’s literally just basic supply vs demand price changes. It’s not complicated.
Colluding to raise prices has nothing to do with supply and demand.
The effect this price collusion had has been overstated by people on this sub and beyond. Anything to convince yourselves that none of your neighborhoods have to undergo any change to lower prices, just defeat the big bad colluding corporations and everything will be okay. Well it's not true, for housing to be cheaper the city and the neighborhoods in it will have to continue changing and keep getting denser. Not as comforting, but it's true.
They had to stop colluding and rents are going down the same time as literally everything else is skyrocketing. There's some pretty good evidence of the effect they were having there.
https://preview.redd.it/vjhcmc3nvn8g1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f1232adf199af8479523586b0600d66c888b06c1
Nah I’m pretty sure it’s because we’ve built and are building the second most apartment units of any city in the country not some nonsense lawsuit.
Are the Soviet housing blocs, I mean luxury apartment communities still charging double the rent at 40% occupancy?
I just moved out of a brand new 2024 built corporate apt complex after they raised my rent in October. The parking lot at night was basically empty. I turned my key in and met the new manager. Sat and talked awhile when we realized we grew up a few miles apart. Anyhow, they brought him in from out of town to "turn the place around" because he confessed occupancy was hovering around 35%.
THEY HAD JUST RAISED MY DAMN RENT!
All those new buildings are built by companies looking to be property speculators, not apartment operators. So, the scam is they get construction loans based on proposed Cap rate. Let's say its 100 units, and it cost $20M to build. To get a 6% Cap rate, that means each unit needs to make $12k of operating income annually. Now mind you, they don't care about the rental income per se. What they really want to be able to say is that now that the building is operational, they've figured out how to get the Cap rate to 4%, so someone else will buy the property, which would now be worth $30M vs. $20M in construction loans. Easiest way to do this is to advertise higher rents, regardless of occupancy, especially if the buyer is just another property speculator who assumes they can 'fix' the occupancy.
Exactly this.
Same reason a retail store like an empty grocery store will sit empty for YEARS rather than just lower the rent and get a tenant.
Lower the rent = The calculation basis for the value of the building goes down
If the value of the building goes down on paper, the bank requires the owner to pay the difference in cash.
In situations like this what you can do though, is offer X number of months free rent but keep the monthly the same. So you’ll see that a lot.
Shh, you're reporting this to the world. We need to keep this as our little secret.
Hey guys! Everyone IS REALLY moving to Florida and Texas, right? It's the cheapest most worky places to live, right? RIGHT?
Tons of people moved to Texas and regretted it pretty fast lol
You stop that. People all over the world need to know that moving to Phoenix is a dry regret, while moving to TX & FL is a beautiful, humid paradise.
I moved from Fl to TX to phx. lol Miami > Austin > Phoenix. With a short stop from Miami > Dal > Miami before that. Mainly cause DFW sucked.. though I have to admit Dallas and Phoenix have a lot in common.
Austin is fun. Florida is nice, but so damn expensive. Miami will always be home, but Phoenix is where I'd rather live.
I don't think people move to Florida and Texas because they're cheap, at least not primarily.
Originally moved to TX from home state in 2020, loved it but property taxes, hurricanes, and other factors brought wife and I to Phoenix.
Summers suck but being closer to family, and still being able to rent out our properties in other states makes up for it.
Sigh, we were just in a massive bubble. Rent and home prices will continue to fall. The prices were artificially inflated, none of it was real.
Its not just phx, look at all of Florida, Austin and most of Texas, NV (especially vegas), Denver....pandemic boom is now on bust mode.
With a labor market in complete distress......no way real estate stands a chance.
Our rent is going up. The apartment manager told us that the management company needs to make up for the money they’ve been losing, so current residents are being asked to pay more when renewing. And everything around us is even more expensive. So frustrating.
Building literally thousands and thousands of units the competition begins, in the final analysis they will have thousands of empty units, in other parts of the valley you can see what happened from 10-15 years ago, units that are run down, no maintenance, no rules ie: busted down vehicles, many on blocks, doing oil changes just dumping the oil anywhere, pretty sad, landlords don’t care just pay your rent. But they say it won’t happen here, our apartments are high class, yeah until they need the money.
the opposite of a chat gpt response
As someone that moved here relatively recently, two things stand out.
One, rent compared to where I came from is comparable which should not be the case for the access they Phoenix has. Meaning that I moved to city 10x larger and the prices are the same. That means supply is massive, so prices are kept down. That’s a good thing overall.
Second, every fucking house is in an hoa
Anyone else drive by those new small build apartments at Osborn & 15th Ave that originally advertised “starting at…” I forgot the number but it was waaaaaaay higher than it should have been.
A year later, we’d drive by & only see lights on in one unit. “The Lucia” I think it’s called. It’s been there now for a couple of years & still looks mostly empty.
My lease is up in April and I'm hoping I can find something new for less than what I'm paying now.
My little brother just got a four-bedroom house for $1,000 a month
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That's literally not what happened but you can believe that if it helps you sleep at night.
Expect wages to go down too.