Why is it advantageous to have a rider from your team in the leader group when your GC contender is in the peloton?
I am watching stage 11 of the 2022 Tour de France. Bob Droll says it is helpful for Jumbo Visma that Van Aert is in the front group. Why? Wouldnt he just be tired when they finally caught him?
In addition to having a satellite rider in the breakaway that can sit up and help the main guy in the peloton, it also takes some pressure off the GC team because they don't have to chase down the breakaway if they don't want to.
Having a teammate in position to potentially win the race from the breakaway means another team may have to do the bull of the work.
Correct answer. Satellite riders are useful like WVA in the giro if they can link up with an attacking leader and create an advantage there, either numerical or keeping the leaders fresh.
They're also useful to keep a team off the front and fresh during GTs, the greatest benefits are if the rider is not quite in GC contention but could fall into position in the break (5th-10th overall) because other teams will absolutely work to defend those minor placing.
Furthermore, they can act as an anchor on the break. Having somone regularly missing / not taking a turn can demoralise the break and make them easier to bring back.
Huh! I didnt know this, thanks!
I see sometimes the breakaway/leaders cooperate to wait for their GC contenders, but I was wondering why the whole group stops and a few people dont just continue on by themselves. They'd rather take their chances on winning the climb rather than burn extra energy continuing on alone?
Usually the rest of the breakaway will go on to win the stage. Stage 20 of the giro this year is another example of that. WVA drops back to Simon Yates who wins the pink jersey but finishes only in the top 10 or so for the stage.
Sitting on a breakaway without taking turns does sometimes make the breakaway fall apart. This is because the other riders will perceive that they are giving the rider who isn’t taking turns too big of an advantage over themselves. What’s the point of me working hard to make this breakaway successful if you are going to just beat me later because you’ve been resting.
So this leads to more riders deciding not to work. Soon the breakaway either gets caught or riders start attacking to establish a new smaller breakaway without the leeches.
Sometimes it may be recognized that despite someone like WVA sitting on in a mountain stage, he isn’t a threat for the stage win to true climbers in the break. So they won’t feel the need to react and the break will remain successful. He also likely did his part earlier on the flat to establish the time gap for the break. The satellite rider usually has to do some work to make the break successful and keep other riders with stage win goals working.
Fascinating!
This has been such a fun sport to learn about.
GC contender drops competition, then has Wout to drag them to the finish. Watch Stage 20 of the 2025 Giro to see this executed perfectly.
Also enjoy spirited hispanophone bickering
Or 2022 Hautacam. WvA helps Vingegaard drop Pogi
And tour '24 stage 17
The lead up to Yates linking up to Wout was incredible, and definitely earned its place in the pantheon of great Grand Tour moments.
Yates taking off solo, Del Toro and Carapaz not taking Yates seriously as a threat and spiraling in indecision/bickering, Yates’ epic climb up the same mountain that destroyed him 7 years prior, and the slow realization as you watch that “holy shit he has Wout ahead already on the descent”.
Then the absolutely stellar ride by one of the best domestiques in history, which set a new standard for that type of pull.
The clip of Wout finally giving up the ghost before the final climb and nearly falling over from overexertion is one of the most memorable clips of the year. Strong “and now his watch is ended” for an absolutely amazing moment. Chapeau to him, he truly rode at his limit for his team leader, exactly when it was needed the most.
WVA can try and sit on saying he's working for the GC leader, might be harder than sitting in the bunch but then when GC leader launches, WVA might be able to sit up for 5 mins as he gets caught and is *relatively* fresh to do some work. Just look at the Giro stage last year where WVA was in the front group waiting for Yates.
Perfect example for the explainer.
Yeah, compare all the help Yates got from Wout in the flats before the final climb and compare that to Del Toro and Carapaz still bickering in that same section, minutes later.
Despite how much of a star Del Toro may/will become, I don't think I will ever get out of mind what a complete dumbass he was here. I mean this really was hilarious and one of the best watches of the year.
I've seen this discussed so many times and I've come to the conclusion that Del Toro wasn't able to win unilaterally that day
If he could've confidently closed the gap and won he would have. I think he knew he was toast and if he worked hard he may be handing Carapaz 2nd, and I think Carapaz was in the same situation
Tim Wellens in one of the later stages of last year's TdF. Did zero work all day in a 10+ breakaway. Tadej never launched, so Wellens attacked over the last climb and solo-ed for the win
Is riding in the breakaway a more difficult way to win? Like do they have to work harder?
It’s generally harder to ride in the break than in the peloton. You have fewer riders in your group so there is less aero advantage plus you will be expected to pull the group yourself with no aero advantage some.
So over the course of the whole day, you will spend more energy in the break. However the breakaway starts the finale of the stage with a time advantage over the peloton. So if you’re in the break you can climb the final climb slower than the fastest climber in the peloton and still be ahead to win the stage. When your competition in the peloton are the elite climber GC guys like pogacar and vingegaard, you need that advantage to have any chance to beat them.
So going in the break is a way to spend energy earlier in the stage in order to have an advantage later in the stage when you really need it.
I was at this stage!
Or they can sit on the wheel of the group and then attack for the stage win as Tim Wellens did in Stage 15 of the 2025 Tour (bonus points for pissing off Quinn Simmons).
On that specific stage WVA's presence up the road was really important. When you look back at highlights you'll see a lot of focus on that bit where Jonas and Roglic are alternating attacks against Pogacar, but what makes those attacks so dangerous is WVA. If Jumbo had no one up the road it wouldn't necessarily have been unreasonable for Pogacar to just let Roglic go. By that stage Roglic was nearly 3 minutes down and had suffered a dislocated shoulder. WVA in the break turns Roglic back into a threat, because he can pull him to the final climb and behind Pogacar would be pressured to pull to keep the gap down, all while Jonas could have sat on his wheel and stayed fresh for the Granon.
What I haven't seen anyone explicitly explain because it seems obvious is that the rider in the breakaway may be able to help at a later time than would have been otherwise possible. Stage 20 of last year's giro for example. If Wout had stayed in the peloton he would have had to Finestre faster than all of the climbers and GC guys except Simon Yates. That is inconceivable. But because he was in the breakaway he could do the climb significantly slower than his captain Yates and still be there at the top to pull for him on the descent and in the valley.
Interesting! That makes sense.
The rider in front can slow up, take a breather and then do a pull for the GC favorite. Every bit of a draft allows the GC favorite to save some energy which they can use on a final attack.
What I never understand about this, is the following.
(no race in mind, just random names for easy conversation)
When Jonas and Pogi get to the front group, and WvA is waiting there, WvA will start to pull Jonas, which is obviously beneficial for Jonas. But wouldn’t it also benefit Pogi? Because he’s in the slipstream of two people with certainly no need anymore to do any pulling, and the ability to attack from the back?
The important bit in your scenario is that Jonas must drop Pogi somehow and then get into Wout's slipstream. 10 meters can be enough. Once this situation is established, Wout turns on its big engine at full throttle and widens the gap. This is most effective on the flat where the slipstream effect is the most significant.
Totally agree. Also, even if the GC contender doesn’t drop their rival before hanging on the back wheel of a teammate, having them be able to draft a teammate somewhat levels the playing field. If Pogi could just sit on Jonas’s wheel, Jonas is having to push more watts just to keep pace. If Pogi and Jonas are both on Wout’s wheel, the disadvantage Jonas had to Pogi greatly decreases. Pogi would get a small advantage from drafting 2 guys rather than 1 but Jonas gets a huge help going from 0 to 1.
How significant is the slipstream effect? I googled it at it saysnit saves you 20-30% energy. Does that sound right?
As always in aerodynamics, it depends on many factors (speed, wind direction, rider size in front of you, rider size behind you,...). For Jonas behind Wout and no-one else, it is probably of the order of 20-30% indeed ! In a race, that is huge.
For bigger groups, it can save even more power, up to 95% for a very large peloton, see https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167610518303751
It's a combination, I think, of what other people have said. Any team with someone in the break doesn't have to work to pull the break back (and if it's someone who can threaten top 10 in GC even better, since the teams really don't want to let someone like that gain massive time, both to defend minor places but also because occasionally letting a super domestique gain a ton of time in the break means they win, like Kuss in the 23 Vuelta). And also that a satellite rider can pull (even if just for a little bit) for their leader when they catch up (most recent example I can think of is Yates in the Giro but there are other examples, including with WVA, who is a beast at giving it all for a mighty final pull, including crucially in a super fun stage later in the 22 Tour you're watching). But something that hasn't been mentioned is that even if the satellite rider is tired, little pulls on shallow climbs can make a HUGE difference when draft really matters.
Bob Droll lol
GC riders are the best climbers if they go their domestiques are unlikely to be able to follow. So if you want to attack early but need help later in the stage you get a teammate up the road.
Lol Bob Droll
IIRC there was a climb, then a descent then a flat portion, then another climb to the finish. Having WVA up the road meant that Pog couldn't attack on the earlier climb as he would have to ride the flat part solo while Wout could sit up and then pull JV to the final climb.
Conversely, JV could attack TP and if he gets away Wout pulls for him on the flat. Pog then either rides steady on the flat and loses time or goes hard on the flat and is exhausted before the final climb begins.
@u/pinecamper
This is the perfect scenario Giro Stage 2025 on YT
look at visma vs Pogi on stage 11 of tdf '22, probably the best stage from a tactical perspective.
It's advantageous because of two reasons. First you have a satellite rider that can help the GC leader at a later stage of a Climb or on the flat after a hard climb. The satellite rider would probably have been dropped on the climb if he stayed in the peloton, if the tempo was high, but now he can ride the climb at a slower tempo until the GC contender catches up to him, now the GC contender has an extra helper that he otherwise wouldn't have had. This is extra helpful when the peloton is very reduced and the GC contender attacks and creates a gap to his GC opponent. When the GC contender then catches up to his satellite rider he then doesn't have to burn all his matches while his GC opponent has to, cause he is on his own. The second reason is that the team with a satellite rider doesn't have to use a rider to catch the breakaway, but only when a satellite rider has a good position in the breakaway compared to the other riders in the breakaway.
"break riders would be too tired to do anything when being caught" because they are trying maximum to escape. But for a satellite rider who's there for tactic use they won't give everything. They can choose to slow down to recover a bit and wait for their leader when they receive an order from team radio, and so they could have some fuels left to do some work. Also, pulling on flat or descent could help huge even without fresh legs. No matter the GC leader is dropping others or get dropped, a pull is always helpful. In Giro '25 Stage 20 WvA helped Simon to build decisive advantage, and in Tour '24 Stage 17, Jonas avoided being dropped by Pog and Remco also because of satellite riders' help. Additionally, breakaway group could claim all bonus seconds, which would also make GC competitors in peloton less aggressive.
Chris Horner doesn't approve this. He Always says you have to stay with your leader.
Found mads pederson's reddit account