On top of that, Valve is currently working on making PC games work on ARM based chips so that we can play our games on our phones.
We have the potential for the greatest victory in years and all we have to do is not fuck it up!
On top of that, Valve is currently working on making PC games work on ARM based chips so that we can play our games on our phones.
We have the potential for the greatest victory in years and all we have to do is not fuck it up!
amogus
In even the most maximalist doomer version of what people are afraid of, pc gaming will still exist. There will always be some level of demand for home compute, and where there is home compute there is PC gaming, there will always be enough enthusiasts to either support an (albeit smaller) market (like we see with physical media sales of music movies and shows) or a "seven seas" scene which we also see for works that go onto streaming services and never see a physical release.
But im also hugely skeptical of such a future coming to pass. These companies are buying as much as possible right now because they all know they are in a bubble and are fighting to be the last ones standing in the AI space. There are multiple technical hurdles (most of which I admittedly dont understand as well as I should) as well logistical issues (there is literally not enough power generation for all of these new datacenters. They have the cards and can't use them in some places already) as well as the cold water of the hype of AI meeting reality (as it is a tool with some real utility, but is likely not the world redefining tech that the internet was)
It's been less than five years since you couldn't buy a GPU at any price and we're still here. This too, will pass.
I mean the 9070xt does not look bad on paper. I stopped looking at nvidia cards. Jensen is fucking high.
It’s completely changed digital rendering. It takes 1 minute now to make a polished concept art and turn it into a detailed 3D rendering. No artist required. That alone is pretty huge.
The problem is the people who would actually do that are part of the problem. Most of those 3d renderings are significantly more inefficient resource wise than purpose-made models with limited polygons.
It's cool you can turn a drawing into a 3d model with this process. It sucks that it's literally guaranteed to be a 3d model that actively worsens the resource issues we'll be facing in the coming years.
Yeah but it’s not profitable
These services are gushing money, unless a technological miracle occurs, this is all unsustainable
The PC games on phones crowd are hilarious. One word: Cooling
It also completely ignores the fact that phones need RAM too
They won't somehow be magically shielded from the impact of the inflated prices, especially since most people will need to upgrade their phones much more frequently than they would a PC (the added wear & tear a pocketable device faces, battery degradation, the need for it to be a fully functional communication device etc)
Especially given that Samsung has refused orders from other Samsung for memory. Nothing is safe. Not even devices made by the people making the ram.
More importantly, there’s plenty of android handhelds (retroid, AYN, AYANEO) that have fantastic performance and cooling and many of us are already using the translation layer that valve has contributed to via Gamehub to play native PC games on android handhelds. Valve continuing support is just a huge win
Also no real gamer has ever or will ever want to play on a tiny screen with atrocious controls.
I would rather slow roast my willie in an itchy acid concoction than play real games on a phone (because lets be honest here, so far 99.99% of games on phones are nothing put swipe to play shovelware best left untouched).
Get this idea out back and blast it with the strength of 10 quintillion supernovas - if even a single atom survives, blast it some more with the heat death of our universe
It's honestly so gimmicky. It's one of those these things that's cool to tweak and setup but once it's running, you'd hardly use it imo
Got that covered! My phone has a fan in it! /s
For real does not help much though.
People already play games like Fortnite and Apex Legend on phones without them exploding.
Those are mobile ports of the games, not the PC version layered to run on an ARM chip. Your phone cant run the PC version of almost any decently modern game.
Do phones need to run the PC version of Cyberpunk 2077 tho?
RDR1 from 2010 just came out for iPhone and it's great. Resident Evil 7 and Alien Isolation also run great on phones.
In 2010 I built my first gaming PC with an i5 2500k, 4 cores boosting up to 3.7Ghz, 8GB ram.
Galaxy S25 has an 8 core with 2 cores boosting up to 4.47Ghz, 12GB ram (16GB for the Ultra)
You don't have to play everything in 4k and 180 Hz...
You know these things are optional, right?
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Its not just about specs, IOS vs Android vs Windows vs Linux all have different libraries for communicating with the hardware. The ARM layer valve is developing doesnt handle translation of these calls, just translation of x86_64 to ARM assembly. The use case for valve's translation layer is letting old x86 games run on newer arm chips, setting them up for success when arm gets more mainstream.
Cool I didn't know this detail!
It works just fine.😉
Nobody's telling you to run
crysis but badborderlands 4 on your pixel.Go for the banger indies instead. Hollow Knight, Hades, Astlibra, etc etc etc. There's thousands of hours of content on games that won't even heat up your device.
I get it but you think people will stop there? Have a look at r/EmulationOnAndroid
Well, if they wanna burn their phones down that's on them.
I don't want my games on my phone. I want them on my PC. On the hardware I own and control.
Also I don't want to stare 24/7 on the (in comparison) tiny screen of my mobile. My eyes hurt from it, can't even imagine to play games on it.
You guys don't have phones ?
And what about i want to purchase, choose and assemble every single component of my desktop machine. And have MY gaming corner in MY house furbished of things that makes my mind happy and satisfied?
Unlike phone?
Correct. You don't control your phone or the software that is on it without jumping through a bunch of hoops. In reality, you barely own your phone.
unlike... windows?
wdym i don't control my phone or the software that is on it?
i fucking do. what hoops?
Google services - are the same spyware as windows.
Who said anything about Windows? Even on Windows, you have far more control than a phone could ever give you. Full access to the registry, system files and the ability to execute any command. Swap out parts, install any software, create and mount partitions, you name it.
How clueless do you have to be for me to even have to spell this out? And if Windows isn’t your thing, you can just install Linux, or anything else you want. Try doing that on your iPhone or any other tracking device, I mean phone. They're the same thing.
by that logic - on a phone you have access to source code of the OS
(if that is android), which is far more than just registry
"system files and the ability to execute any command. Swap out parts, install any software, create and mount partitions, you name it" all that except swapping parts - you can do on a phone as well. even "you can just install Linux".
You have a condition or something? Why would anyone go through all the trouble just to game on phone? I also like that you had to specify Android.
Put iOS on your android if you're in so much fucking control. Better yet. Throw windows on there. Or mac. Run sailfishOS (you can't, banking apps won't work). Fucking.
Edit: You can't even install Kotor 1 on android 16 anymore. It works (I sideloaded it) but I can't get it from my purchases in the play store anymore. So I bought that right for $10 but now I can't play it. Am I in fucking control?
i can install clean android without google services
i can put literally linux there
banking apps would work(depends on the app), even if they would not - i still can use webapps.
iOS is a proprietary OS, by that logic - put PS5 OS on your PC.
What? You can not? That's what I thought.
If you bought shit from microsoft store, are you in control?
If you bought a game like BF6 with kernel anticheat, that literally refuse to work if you look at it funny, are you in control?
The problem is that you mixing the "phone" itself and "google services" and some random apps.
I use Linux and host my own Nextcloud server. So yeah, I have a lot more control over my hardware than if I was "gaming" on a smartphone.
dude, you CAN host your own Nextcloud server on a phone... holy.... sometimes reddit is an amazing place...
you can change the os, or modify the source code of the os, or do almost anything.
PC is more streamlined, sure, but in essence, if we are not talking about iphones, but android phones are basically PCs.
lmao, you can't be serious. How exactly do you suggest I connect 10 or so hard drives to a phone? All bottlenecked at the same bloody USB port I guess? And I guess I'll have to recompile everything that's not available as a binary for ARM, IF it even compiles. Where's my ECC RAM and redundant power supply on a phone? What about IPMI? A smartphone is not a replacement for a server machine.
You could argue that GrapheneOS, LineageOS, etc give you as much control as a standard Linux distro (which I'm not fully convinced of) but they're only available for some models of phones. And de-googling an android phone is precisely the kind of "jumping through hoops" FrozGate was talking about.
Do you own and control your phone? Can you replace the OS on your phone?
Most people can't.
Its actually a federal crime, to break digital locks. So rooting has the potential to put put people in prison.
Rooting your phone is not illegal you clown
Didn't say its illegal. I said its illegal to break digital locks.
And that’s related to this how?
Most people can't replace the OS on a PC as well, so what?
"federal crime" I don't live in the US, and even in the US I don't believe that its a crime to swap the OS.
Anyone can replace their pc's OS, at any time. I'm not talking about individual competence.
Congrats on not being in the USA.
My point is, phones are far more locked down, and far fewer tools exist to allow people to change the software on their phones.
Per the DMCA, breaking a digital lock, is a federal crime.
The Unlocking Consumer Choice and Wireless Competition Act (2014) specifically put DMCA exemptions in place for smartphones... 🤦♂️
It is 100% legal to root your phone and change the OS.
Thank you for the clarification.
Yeah, no. Why should we accept stagnation or even regression of performance? The world didn't end. Progress is still happening. The only reason we are regressing is become some grifter is hoarding the world supply of memory and GPUs. Fuck that
Agree with the part about this not being the end of PC gaming, but there's still reason enough to be mad about overinflation of prices. Also, why the fuck would I want to play games on my phone? I could understand if it was somehow possible to use a phone instead of a computer (hook a monitor, keyboard and mouse to it), but "on the phone" is a serious downgrade to a shittier experience.
“All we have to do is not fuck it up.”
I’ve got some bad news for you.
Same people that use the words “boycott” or “vote with your wallet”
We don't have ARM based FEX layer to play on our phones. It's for ARM PC operating systems
And sure, we got "decades" of games to play. We can still be mad at a direct issue... AI directly being the cause of NAND chips being insanely expensive for RAM and SSDs
Yes we do. r/EmulationOnAndroid
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FEX is an emulator (of an AMD64 CPU). It says so on its official gihub page.
Winlator Bionic uses FEX, this is incorrect.
We've got many now. The past year or two has been wild for android emulation.
ARM CPU's are just as useless as x86/x64 CPU's if you don't have RAM
And?
I'm not sure how that's hard to understand
Ah yes. Blame the consumer. Enough with our avocado toast.
I don't think this is really consumer blame. The blame is still firmly on corporations pricing consumers out of the market. But the point is we can get by with less; there's ways to adapt instead of abandoning the hobby entirely.
Ram prices 5x and this guy tells us it is an opportunity. You sir have a future in politics.
Congrats on completely missing my point...
Seems it's actually you who has a future in politics...
You talk like everyone happens to have a good PC. I myself was lucky enough to upgrade last year. But anyone that's thinking of upgrading or thinking of getting into PC gaming, is indeed fucked.
Do you work for blizzard? I don't want to game on some tiny arse screen.
Some of us had to sell our nicer hardware to pay bills. Thank God this used Vega 56 I got dirt cheap handles most things that don't need rt at 1080p....
Yeah nice and good but what if the hardware is dying and can not replaced because there are no more spare parts for consumers?
Ya everyone is acting like a 5-8 year old hardware is garbage these days when they can still play most games at max settings if you ignore the unoptimized garbage.
My 3080 from 2020 and my 8700K from 2017 is still blasting through games without a hitch.
It's funny to see people freak out and waste money upgrading their 4090s to 5090s. You're gaining nothing, really.
More than once in my 20 years of PC gaming have I heard, "this is going to kill PC gaming". Prices have been higher than they are right now. The PC I built 10 years ago was 3x the price of the one I built this year. Thats not even accounting for inflation. Reddit is just always full of doomers.
I think the anger is that AI data centers are hoarding DRAM, driving up prices, to produce AI slop no one wants.
While people who want to use the resource to better their lives via improved compute cant access thr resource.
Its like a rich person jumping a queue for medical care over a poor person. (Im from Canada we have free health care)
It's hilarious how many people think all this AI compute is being used for Facebook memes. They really think AI isn't going to dominate industries
Really? When the hell was that?
Go look at prices for enthusiast PC parts in the 80s and 90s and convert to 2025 prices.
People will shit their pants when they find out how much a 386 or 486 cost. My first custom build in the late 90's cost just over $2000 CAD and it was an upper mid range PC. That would be about $3500 today.
lmao, its true. Been actively gaming since 1986.
Man I remember reading about chip shortages far back as Mario 3. Some game sellers tried to jack up prices to 70 bucks because of shortages for a bit. It’ll sting for a bit but I think we’ll be fine this time and the next time too.
I know, right?! The PC market ebbs and flows, just like any other market based on supply and demand. Everyone is going to be fine.
The absolute only way this is true is if you built parts that are just not in any way 'equivalent' level builds for the time periods. Maybe if you wouldn't have said the adjusting for inflation part, but the inflation we experienced from 2020-2024 was actually insane, it's single handedly going to warp those numbers, but it's also obvious we're in a high price time period right now too, so you're 'fighting' both making that argument. Show the build lists?
Cheapest 2x16 DDR5 CL36 you can find in Europe is~400€ and more often than not they’re out of stock until August 2027. Its not just the pricing that’s the issue, but also the availability
Hold up break down these 2 machine costs. Did you build a high end PC and then do a budget build 10 years later?
Interested to see the cost breakdown.
You seem to forget that hardware DIES. Can't play shit when that happens
Except there are loads of old computers (20+ years) running around the place.
Hardware dies sure, but it's not nearly as common as you seem to think it is.
My steam backlog is 580+, not counting my console collection..
I have a backlog stretching back to the NES. Despite my time spent back then, there are many games I missed.
https://preview.redd.it/t1xt4kgixs9g1.png?width=900&format=png&auto=webp&s=129a6e043990d25460f5154dea8c551bb82eb6a9
Sus
How am I sus?!
Among us
Telling people to play old games because companies have their own interests in mind and are actively fucking over consumers is an absolutely insane take in the face of these massive cost increases.
I've played the old games I like over and over already.
Exploring new games coming out is the most fun and interesting part of owning a gaming computer my situation. I also love the online discussion part of it. It's true, not all new games push hardware limits, but if they happen to push new features and graphics then even better in my view.
While high optimization is a nice bonus, if you think it takes long for new games to come out now, then add the levels of optimization and polish you are asking for to every new game and enjoy even longer waiting times. But I guess you wouldn't mind, as you're staying on AM4 I assume since you made this post at this time. If you made this post while on a top spec AM5 then it is hypocritical to ask others not to upgrade.
Another day another stupid take from someone in this sub.
Agreed. Yet another deluded gamer who thinks the economy revolves around them as a consumer.
Also, who the heck wants to play on their phone??? ARM is great and all, but I much prefer my x86/AMD64 and dedicated GPU.
I think the likelihood the next Steam Deck will be ARM is high.
The whole "there is no sufficient performance per watte improvement" is a big sign.
Nope, it's not even a possibility.🙂
I have no interest in cloud gaming, I want it in my library running on my hardware
Ah! But you see, it is 100% local to your hardware!😄
16 GB is still sufficient for most games. 24-32 was only needed if you wanted to run a lot of background tasks at the same time. 64 is excessive; please trust me when I say that unless you're doing professional work, running multiple VMs, or doing local AI inference, almost nobody actually needs 64 GB or higher.
If you're in the market for an upgrade, consider an AMD chip with a 3D cache. The cache on the CPU takes a lot of load off the RAM such that you can get by with less, and it helps compensate for performance loss if you need to run just a single stick instead of dual-channel. We have technologies and ways of doing things that can get us through this shortage.
Among us
We will not go quietly into the night! We will not vanish without a fight! We're going to live on! We're going to survive! Today, we celebrate our PC-ocalypse survival!
We are not cooked, but the cook still spits in that coffee mug.
I'm trying not to be doomer about it, but I was JUST starting to save for either a pre-built or components to build myself, but with the way things are going, I don't know when I'll be able to.
My current rig turns on only after I've hit the reset button once or twice. I can't even play Fortnite or Fall Guys anymore (boohoo, can't play Fortnite) and my oldest component is almost 12 years old. I'm still running DDR3 ram. I haven't been in a financial place to save my entire working life. But now I have a chance and this ish happens. People are selling rigs less powerful than mine on Facebook for almost half the price of a new pre-built with a 5070 in it.
Intel is developing ARM processors for laptops and desktop PCs.
Patient gamers is a lifestyle!
Not to mention the army of 'yes men' bots. I think I talked a few people out of "upgrading" in the past week. What a fucking scam.
Xbox Series S would have already accomplished this if this was true.
But we saw what really happened, developers endlessly complaining about it and begrudgingly making a bad stripped down version, claiming the Series S is holding back gaming.
Let’s not kid ourselves, there’s no winners here in this situation except for like one asshole billionaire.
Everyone's mad, but tbh, as a father of three, I only have 15 minute time spurts to play. I'm still running old pokemon like there's no tomorrow.
To be fair I have so many games on my backlog I could PLAY for an entire decade withput buying a new release 🤷♂️
There are extremely few (I mean, maybe 10) games released that shouldnt be able to run on early 2020s hardware. Almost every other game that is super intensive has been a lazy piece of unoptimised shit, or theyve overly relied on full RTGI with no fallback option, or UE5. But this was okay-ish, because hardware was accelerating so fast and was reasonably affordable. You could just release a terribly optimised game like Remnant 2 for example, and then in 2 years time everyone can run it, and its all fine.
Developers are finally gonna have to put effort in. If you look at it that way, this might be a genuinely good thing for this industry.
Stop buying hardware that can run the games the developers shit out, and start buying games that can run on your hardware instead.
Valve is working on making games work on ARM for the Frame. Not phones. Dont spread misinformation.
Personally, I just pay the price because life is short and resisting it isn't changing anything because these companies already have told us we don't matter so the data centers are already making back their budget and then some for the lack of consumer purchases. We've never had a say in this manufacturer game we call life.
I've seen the end of PC gaming, no really! too many times to believe that this is the end.
Got any examples?🙂
More than a handful of us have massive libraries full of unplayed games (most of which were free) that could hold us indefinitely. Many of those games are older and can run on a potato. Heck sometimes a game session for me is scrolling my library for a bit then I’m done for the day.
Having a huge library of games is in no way a solution to the issue of artificially inflated hardware prices - just like the current prices don't stop you playing your existing library of games
If you tried to make a Venn diagram of inflated prices and existing game libraries, it'd be two totally separate circles
Not to mention, what happens if your PC dies tomorrow and you need to buy a new rig? How does your old library help you then?
I didn’t say it was. Just pointing out we’re not all affected the same way and not all of us are cooked.
I mean a bunch of us have an extensive backlog that most or us won’t finish in our lifetime, go play those for now. Heck emulation is mentioned, the amount of Japanese only games are translated to english will keep you busy no not even notice the prices going up or down.
ARM for desktop is the exciting outcome from this to me. Allows for a larger push to a unified SoC design. Which should help with the RAM pricing also as GPU/System RAM could just be one large pool of memory.
Nah fuck that. Unless I can fully upgrade the machine I don't want it.