Man, in theory I should enjoy games like MSC or Mon Bazou, but every time I go back and try I just keep bouncing off, it just feels like it's a big confusing wall with no real guidance
Yep, I think I went through the loop of "start game, go start messing with the car, not understand how I'm supposed figure out putting together a whole car, get bored, stop" like 5 times by now.
yeah i agree. there should be some kinda manual ingame. i dont wanna use the internet every 30 seconds while playin. and there is basically no other option if you actually make some progress
I don't think trial and error is a good gameplay style when there are hundreds of different components, including tons of different nuts and bolts, all of which need to be put together exactly correctly to function. If you tried to do that without any knowledge of cars or without using a guide, it would take you tens of hours, if not a hundred hours or more.
Well is that the games fault or the players fault? You download a game about building a project car and you expect for everything to be handed to you? Also the game has a wonderful mod community. People have made mods to tell you bolt sizes etc if you need it.
You download a game about building a project car and you expect for everything to be handed to you?
You don't build cars in real life by trial and error, you either use your existing knowledge of cars (if you have it) or you follow a guide. The fact that external guides and mods that put guidance into the game are so popular is illustrative of what I'm saying, there is too much trial and error for a lot of people to tolerate.
What guide is there to follow from building a car from the frame up? Every automobile is different and so is the engineering. The game also takes place in a time where you couldn't just search up a answer on your phone in 30 seconds.
Also project cards have after market parts to, alot of people who work with cars have trial and errors just to make something work the way they like it
What guide is there to follow from building a car from the frame up?
I've never tried to build a car so I don't know what resources are available but you are missing my point. You would never understake such a project in real life without any knowledge, intrinsic or extrinsic.
The game also takes place in a time where you couldn't just search up a answer on your phone in 30 seconds
Yeah but it takes place in a time period where books exist so I don't accept this as an excuse.
Also project cards have after market parts to, alot of people who work with cars have trial and errors just to make something work the way they like it
I'm not complaining about the existence of trial and error, I'm complaining about the amount of it. I don't have a problem with trial and error in certain aspects like, as you said, aftermarket parts. I think having to build the whole car that way is too much and that is why so many players resort to guides or mods.
Why would someone take a project like that if they don't have any automotive experience? My point is the game just isn't meant for you. For those who want to still play that's why it's so easy to mod and add those things. Also this takes place in a country in a small town. You say they have books but sourcing a book on how to build a certain car with the exact year and model?? Technically was also constantly improving so books would get out dated easily if you tried referencing to the wrong car. I also believe no such book has ever existed that was mass produced. You're able to change the difficulty of the game with the mods and guides to you're liking on how you want to play the game. This is done on purpose so you can add things that seek for to you.
You would never undertake such a project in real life without any knowledge
well, there you go. the game's character has the knowledge, and the game's player doesn't. do you want to engage as the player, or let the character do it all so you can watch a movie without any gratification from actually figuring it out?
If the player character had that knowledge, it would (or should) be represented in the form of in-game assistance, in much the same way that player characters have appropriate skills or abilities in action-adventure or RPG games.
Not a car but my aprillia manual shows 3d blown up diagrams of EVERY assembly on the bike aswell as including the part name and numbers listed below each diagram.
It's the game's failing. DCS is all about learning real procedures for real aircraft, flicking all the switches and setting up all the systems. Every single one comes with a full manual and one of the most celebrated recent improvements was the release of an aircraft with an interactive in-game manual which can be accessed hovering over various components.
I did it, it was nowhere near impossible for me, and it took about 4 hours to have the car driving as it should.
Difficulty wise, it was a little tough, but I doubt most could do it. Alot of time was spent looking at the parts and figuring out what had to go where and in what order. Without some level of mechanical aptitude, engine knowledge, or just really good common sense/logical reasoning, I dont think its possible in one sitting.
The only thing I needed to look up was getting to the store and some small confusion about controls when manipulating objects and trying to get the engine onto the lift. In the end though I didn't get any other instruction to actually building the car.
what do you think about that experience? was it fun? or did you have to push thru and force yourself to play? like a goal or a duty? would you call it a good game design?
My only prior knowledge of the game was seeing some videos of lap times at the rally so that was the major goal and what kept me going.
I'd call it okay game design, but it left some things to be desired with the initial fresh start process. For me though, it was overall fun as I've always had a good time working with cars and it was cool to do it that in depth sitting at the comfort of my desk.
You are not correct. At least not here. Both games have outstanding game design, aside from hardcore car mechanics, everything else is eluded to through game design. You mean he doesn’t make games for kids who want a trophy for following mindless instructions that aren’t needed to begin with? He does suck at that.
I feel like this game would really benefit from co-op. One guy sitting in the pub gambling, another guy tryna make his way home, everyone working on the same car together.
Great timing as I lost my latest MSC save last night; I had just finished prepping for the rally and was taking the Satsuma into town when Pena did his thing, flying out of a blind corner causing a head-on collision and killing us both... Perkele.
They said it was impossible to find composers to recreate 90's Finnish radio songs. Keep in mind there are only 5 million native Finnish speakers. You can turn the songs off in the settings.
So what are they supposed to do when there are no freelance artists that want to be associated with the project? They have said they searched for artists to create Finnish radio tracks but were unsuccessful finding any that wanted to work on the game. Like I said in another comment, just because you have money doesn't mean what you want to purchase is available.
Also, what makes you think the husband and wife combo is obligated to include tons of other people in their creation just because they have money now?
Wouldn't licensing old songs work? You don't necessarily need to create anything new for it and I heavily doubt old finnish songs from some archive are a momentous cost. Unfortunately gen AI music is really obvious.
They wanted to create something new that fit in the game world. Existing songs wouldn't do that. But even if they would, who says license holders would allow existing songs to be used in the game?
Like I said, just because you have money doesn't mean what you want to buy is for sale or that it will be sold to you.
If you've played the game, can you tell which tracks are AI generated and which aren't? I can't tell because I don't speak Finnish. I would guess that even if I did, I still couldn't tell. And if those radio tracks bother people, they can be turned off in the options. In fact, the AI generated songs are off by default.
I mean it was just a genuine question, the game world really is just pretty authentically backwoods trashy finland so what you'd hear in the radio at the time wouldn't be too unfitting really.
And I mean I don't know if license holders would, I don't know if they asked any.
I can usually tell AI songs as they have some tells like odd forced transitions to the refrains, limited variation in structure and an odd vocoded sound to the vocals. It's good they're off by default though. Some stores around my area started using AI music and it's so obnoxious that I actually don't go shopping there anymore lol. I have a sensitive ear and can't easily shut out noises and when the music constantly makes me ask what kind of psychopath composed it then I go crazy
You can't hire artists that don't exist. They have said they searched for Finnish speaking artists to create 90's inspired Finnish songs for some of the radio tracks in the game but it was impossible to find any that wanted to be associated with the game.
Just because you have enough money to pay for something doesn't mean it's available to buy.
Gamers when someone spends thousands of personal unpaid hours programming, modeling, working in engine, level design, writing a story, but then use ai for some textures and background noise.
Yeah no calling someone's job that they make money off of "unpaid work" just cause they don't get paid up front is ridiculous. They have, as of right now, easily made $100k+ off of its sales so far. They easily could have (or could in the future, since they're still working on the game!) spent a tiny fraction off that money paying real artists for their work instead of filling their game with AI slop.
He's explained it multiple times. He could not find an artist that wanted to make 90s Finnish blues or be associated with the game. Only 5 million people even speak Finnish natively so the pool for it is extremely small.
Who says they "blew everything"? The game is selling incredibly well and is rated Overwhelmingly Positive. You and a hand full of other people seem to be the only ones upset about the husband and wife developer team creating something the way they wanted to create it.
There is no reputational hit. Reddit uses more AI than this game did. But here you are, commenting on Reddit every day.
Man, in theory I should enjoy games like MSC or Mon Bazou, but every time I go back and try I just keep bouncing off, it just feels like it's a big confusing wall with no real guidance
I never could get the car assembled in MSC lol
Yep, I think I went through the loop of "start game, go start messing with the car, not understand how I'm supposed figure out putting together a whole car, get bored, stop" like 5 times by now.
Ridiculous amount of tutorials on YouTube, mods that add a guide in game, there is a huge amount of help so you've just given up early.
That’s good to know if I ever get back to it. I had originally played in ‘17-‘19.
I did the first year it came out...all the non car related stuff added ruined the game for me.
yeah i agree. there should be some kinda manual ingame. i dont wanna use the internet every 30 seconds while playin. and there is basically no other option if you actually make some progress
The game is meant to be challenging with trial and error. It gives the best experience and you can learn a thing or two
I don't think trial and error is a good gameplay style when there are hundreds of different components, including tons of different nuts and bolts, all of which need to be put together exactly correctly to function. If you tried to do that without any knowledge of cars or without using a guide, it would take you tens of hours, if not a hundred hours or more.
Well is that the games fault or the players fault? You download a game about building a project car and you expect for everything to be handed to you? Also the game has a wonderful mod community. People have made mods to tell you bolt sizes etc if you need it.
You don't build cars in real life by trial and error, you either use your existing knowledge of cars (if you have it) or you follow a guide. The fact that external guides and mods that put guidance into the game are so popular is illustrative of what I'm saying, there is too much trial and error for a lot of people to tolerate.
My motorcycle was built mostly by trial and error lol. You have a point though.
What guide is there to follow from building a car from the frame up? Every automobile is different and so is the engineering. The game also takes place in a time where you couldn't just search up a answer on your phone in 30 seconds. Also project cards have after market parts to, alot of people who work with cars have trial and errors just to make something work the way they like it
I've never tried to build a car so I don't know what resources are available but you are missing my point. You would never understake such a project in real life without any knowledge, intrinsic or extrinsic.
Yeah but it takes place in a time period where books exist so I don't accept this as an excuse.
I'm not complaining about the existence of trial and error, I'm complaining about the amount of it. I don't have a problem with trial and error in certain aspects like, as you said, aftermarket parts. I think having to build the whole car that way is too much and that is why so many players resort to guides or mods.
Why would someone take a project like that if they don't have any automotive experience? My point is the game just isn't meant for you. For those who want to still play that's why it's so easy to mod and add those things. Also this takes place in a country in a small town. You say they have books but sourcing a book on how to build a certain car with the exact year and model?? Technically was also constantly improving so books would get out dated easily if you tried referencing to the wrong car. I also believe no such book has ever existed that was mass produced. You're able to change the difficulty of the game with the mods and guides to you're liking on how you want to play the game. This is done on purpose so you can add things that seek for to you.
well, there you go. the game's character has the knowledge, and the game's player doesn't. do you want to engage as the player, or let the character do it all so you can watch a movie without any gratification from actually figuring it out?
If the player character had that knowledge, it would (or should) be represented in the form of in-game assistance, in much the same way that player characters have appropriate skills or abilities in action-adventure or RPG games.
Not a car but my aprillia manual shows 3d blown up diagrams of EVERY assembly on the bike aswell as including the part name and numbers listed below each diagram.
So I think maybe that guide does.
The game takes place in a small town in Finland. I understand some manufacturers do this however most don't.
Oh yeah no doubt, I just knew of at least ONE example
It's the game's failing. DCS is all about learning real procedures for real aircraft, flicking all the switches and setting up all the systems. Every single one comes with a full manual and one of the most celebrated recent improvements was the release of an aircraft with an interactive in-game manual which can be accessed hovering over various components.
did anyone actually learn to play this game without looking up a guide or something? that seems impossible to me. or would take ages
I did it, it was nowhere near impossible for me, and it took about 4 hours to have the car driving as it should.
Difficulty wise, it was a little tough, but I doubt most could do it. Alot of time was spent looking at the parts and figuring out what had to go where and in what order. Without some level of mechanical aptitude, engine knowledge, or just really good common sense/logical reasoning, I dont think its possible in one sitting.
The only thing I needed to look up was getting to the store and some small confusion about controls when manipulating objects and trying to get the engine onto the lift. In the end though I didn't get any other instruction to actually building the car.
what do you think about that experience? was it fun? or did you have to push thru and force yourself to play? like a goal or a duty? would you call it a good game design?
My only prior knowledge of the game was seeing some videos of lap times at the rally so that was the major goal and what kept me going.
I'd call it okay game design, but it left some things to be desired with the initial fresh start process. For me though, it was overall fun as I've always had a good time working with cars and it was cool to do it that in depth sitting at the comfort of my desk.
Challenging thru trial and error just means that the dev isn't skilled enough to make good game design
You are not correct. At least not here. Both games have outstanding game design, aside from hardcore car mechanics, everything else is eluded to through game design. You mean he doesn’t make games for kids who want a trophy for following mindless instructions that aren’t needed to begin with? He does suck at that.
I feel like this game would really benefit from co-op. One guy sitting in the pub gambling, another guy tryna make his way home, everyone working on the same car together.
there was a mod for summer car i think.
hopefully that can be ported/remade?
Unfortunately the mod is buggy as hell, a level of buggy beyond the general jank of the game.
Fun for a bit but not really sustainable/ideal.
The real question is whether we'll get My Spring Car or My Autumn Car next
Sadly no Topless said this will be the last my blank car game
Ah well, it's only fair, two successful and well-executed games back to back is already more than most developers ever manage
Respectfully, well-executed might be a stretch.
Great timing as I lost my latest MSC save last night; I had just finished prepping for the rally and was taking the Satsuma into town when Pena did his thing, flying out of a blind corner causing a head-on collision and killing us both... Perkele.
Malaaaauuuuuutaa
Marjattaaaa
Kurwa
Ohh hell yes
More car shenanigans?
Sweet
Can’t wait to watch martincitopants drive 10,000KMs in My Winter Car
god damn that was a long haul of a set of videos haha
Tiemo, my beloved im home.
Martincitopants's work is far from over
Perkele!
Oh God. Someone go tell Gray and Martin
God dammit, they're using Gen AI
That's any desire to play this game gone
This game is made by a man and his wife. Two people. The previous game was wonderful and this one has been just as good so far.
You really going to let some background textures and a radio song you'll probably never hear rob you of an amazing experience?
I mean… they’ve made WAY more than enough money from the first game to commission someone for it.
Like, yeah it’s a small team. But it’s a small team that has plenty of resources to support freelance artists.
It’s not their first release and their last game is a bit success despite pulling a Factorio strategy of not going on sale.
They said it was impossible to find composers to recreate 90's Finnish radio songs. Keep in mind there are only 5 million native Finnish speakers. You can turn the songs off in the settings.
So what are they supposed to do when there are no freelance artists that want to be associated with the project? They have said they searched for artists to create Finnish radio tracks but were unsuccessful finding any that wanted to work on the game. Like I said in another comment, just because you have money doesn't mean what you want to purchase is available.
Also, what makes you think the husband and wife combo is obligated to include tons of other people in their creation just because they have money now?
Wouldn't licensing old songs work? You don't necessarily need to create anything new for it and I heavily doubt old finnish songs from some archive are a momentous cost. Unfortunately gen AI music is really obvious.
They wanted to create something new that fit in the game world. Existing songs wouldn't do that. But even if they would, who says license holders would allow existing songs to be used in the game?
Like I said, just because you have money doesn't mean what you want to buy is for sale or that it will be sold to you.
If you've played the game, can you tell which tracks are AI generated and which aren't? I can't tell because I don't speak Finnish. I would guess that even if I did, I still couldn't tell. And if those radio tracks bother people, they can be turned off in the options. In fact, the AI generated songs are off by default.
I mean it was just a genuine question, the game world really is just pretty authentically backwoods trashy finland so what you'd hear in the radio at the time wouldn't be too unfitting really.
And I mean I don't know if license holders would, I don't know if they asked any.
I can usually tell AI songs as they have some tells like odd forced transitions to the refrains, limited variation in structure and an odd vocoded sound to the vocals. It's good they're off by default though. Some stores around my area started using AI music and it's so obnoxious that I actually don't go shopping there anymore lol. I have a sensitive ear and can't easily shut out noises and when the music constantly makes me ask what kind of psychopath composed it then I go crazy
The first game has 98,000 reviews, they absolutely made enough money off it to hire real artists.
You can't hire artists that don't exist. They have said they searched for Finnish speaking artists to create 90's inspired Finnish songs for some of the radio tracks in the game but it was impossible to find any that wanted to be associated with the game.
Just because you have enough money to pay for something doesn't mean it's available to buy.
Gamers when someone spends thousands of personal unpaid hours programming, modeling, working in engine, level design, writing a story, but then use ai for some textures and background noise.
It's not "unpaid" to make a product that you sell for $14.99.
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You'd have to be a literal child to think that making a sequel to a game that sold hundreds of thousands of copies isn't guaranteed some sales.
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Yeah no calling someone's job that they make money off of "unpaid work" just cause they don't get paid up front is ridiculous. They have, as of right now, easily made $100k+ off of its sales so far. They easily could have (or could in the future, since they're still working on the game!) spent a tiny fraction off that money paying real artists for their work instead of filling their game with AI slop.
They’re making millions from this game and already did so from the last one. Far from unpaid lmao
So why even go through all that effort just to blow everything by using AI for the last stretch?
It's not worth the reputational hit.
He's explained it multiple times. He could not find an artist that wanted to make 90s Finnish blues or be associated with the game. Only 5 million people even speak Finnish natively so the pool for it is extremely small.
I'm confused, why not just license actual 90s finnish blues?
but then just use the music from the original game, no one forced him to add new songs
They have reused music from MSC, and in MWC AI radio songs are disabled by default, no one is forcing you to listen them.
How about you just get over it? The dev owes you absolutely nothing. If you want to cry about an ai song so much don't buy the game.
Who says they "blew everything"? The game is selling incredibly well and is rated Overwhelmingly Positive. You and a hand full of other people seem to be the only ones upset about the husband and wife developer team creating something the way they wanted to create it.
There is no reputational hit. Reddit uses more AI than this game did. But here you are, commenting on Reddit every day.
Holy shit he got it out before 2026 yessss I'm buying it full price even though there's a bundle option
FORSEN WE ARE READY FOR MY WINTER CAR FeelsGoodMan
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