Part of my palate expansion treatment with a Vivos mRNA is also an integrated splint that is part of the appliance itself. The splint creates an even bite plane between upper and lower jaw. The lower jaw is unlocked from the upper jaw in two ways: Firstly, the cusps no longer keep the bottom molars aligned with the top molars. Secondly, because the splint introduces a little elevation, the bottom incisors are also not locked behind the top incisors. The effect of this is that the bottom jaw can "hang loose" in a natural resting position that requires zero muscle effort and causes no strain at all. Before the splint, my lower jaw would be retruded which kept my masseters engaged and strained constantly.

The goal of that splint is to allow the lower jaw to move into its natural, non-retracted position and for the condyles to remodel to support said natural position.

Over the last few days I started experimenting a bit with upward tongue pressure (if I weren't wearing in appliance, this would translate to active mewing) because I was wondering if and how I can get forward growth. (Small recap: The Vivos mRNA is amazing for lateral growth but produces only little forward growth.) The splint that my appliance has allows me to experiment in two dimensions because of my lower jaw being decoupled and hence free:

  1. Consciousy place my lower jaw in different places with the "fake occlusion" onto the splint and see where tongue pressure is being directed.
  2. See how posture affects lower jaw position and in extension also tongue position. This in turn influences the tongue force vector.

The results were quite interesting but maybe not very suprising:

  1. Forward lower jaw position produces forward-directed tongue pressure. As the tongue is anchored in the lower jaw, having a more forward-positioned lower jaw means that the tongue's natural force vector presses more against the palate right above the upper incisors, rather than centrally against the upper palate. This should produce forward growth if done consistently over long periods. This is quote interesting: Everyone knows that the upper jaw limits the lower jaw's forward movement, but there seems to be a "tug of war" happening: If the lower jaw wants to move forward, the tongue will apply forwards pressure as a consequence and hence also influence how far forward the maxilla grows.
  2. Forward head posture and a strong spinal S-curve eliminate the lower jaw's forward positioning and hence also the tongue's forward pressure, while a straight head and neck, and a weak spinal S-curve push the lower jaw forward. This is maybe the most interesting finding and seems to support that good spinal and neck posture is essential for forward maxilla growth.
  3. Points 1 and 2 mean there is a direct chain from spinal/back/neck/head posture to maxilla forward growth: Back/neck/head influence the lower jaw, the lower jaw influences the tongue's position and force vector, and the tongue's force vector in turn determines if its force generates only lateral growth or also forward growth.
  4. If your lower jaw is not midline-aligned, the upward tongue force will be uneven and can probably lead to maxilla asymmetry.

All of this really shows that upper body posture seems to be essential for forward growth. If you have forwarded-rounded shoulders, if your kyphosis is exaggerated, if your lordosis is exaggerated (and hence also kyphosis probably due to compensatory mechanisms), if you have forward head posture... In all these cases, your lower jaw will not let your tongue produce the slightly forward force vector against the palate right above your incisors but only upwards force.

(One of the most impressive success stories on this sub, from many years ago, was by a girl who swore that she got forward growth just from sleeping on her back, on a hard mattress, without using a pillow at all. Now it does make sense to me.)

If anyone else wants to replicate my experiments, do the following:

  1. Get a splint that unlocks your lower jaw in the above mentioned two places (molar cusp unlocking, front incisor unlocking)
  2. Experiment with posture in different ways while doing strong active mewing:
    • Forward head posture
    • Head as straight and far back as possible
    • Simulate forward rounded shoulders
    • On purpose exaggerate your spine's kyphosis and lordosis
    • On purpose make your spine's kyphosis and lordosis as minimal as possible
    • Brace/flex all your core muscles as much as you can at the same time (which seems to have a similar effect to consciously minimizing the S-curve)

Now feel where your engaged tongue pushes up against the palate and feel the direction it pushes. The straighter your spine/neck/head, the more you should feel your lower jaw coming forward and your tongue not only pushing upward but forward too.

  • I have found similar results not with a splint but with just a more relaxed lower jaw position. When I first started, it would give me an underbite. But now I can maintain the same position with my lower teeth slightly behind the upper. And if I try to force an underbite, the spacing between the upper teeth and lower teeth has been reduced. Meaning the underbite is not as pronounced anymore. I think the splint works by the same mechanism. 

    parent

    Over what timeframe did you achieve that progress? I am absolutely convinced that a splint is not required for forward growth through good posture, a splint would probably just make it easier.

    parent root

    Years and years. I'd say 8

    parent root

  • do you think it would be possible to see results with this combination of tongue pressure and proper posture without the splint. If so, how would you go about having that forward-positioned lower jaw.

    parent

    Yes, absolutely. The splint would just speed it up.

    About going about it, I think I already said it in the OP. It is all about having very straight upper body posture. Reducing the S-curve to the smallest curve that is still physiological and healthy. No forwarded rounded shoulders. No kyphosis/lordosis exaggeration. No forward head posture.

    parent root

  • !remindme 72 hours

    parent
    parent root

  • Said better than my Ortho! It's no wonder why results vary so much. I'm going to die on the hill of body posture and mewing together. To me, it's silly trying to do just one. It's chin tucks and back sleeping with no pillow all the way for me!

    I'm a bit disappointed that I'm never heard any of the Mew's directly mention pillow height, I think it's part of mewing troubleshooting 101. Should be in a guide. u/Mewing-Dr-Mike-Mew

    I'm slowly drafting a wiki for my own use, right now here's a relevant section (It's really a WIP)
    https://www.reddit.com/mod/UnihertzJelly2/wiki/index/test/faq/mewing

    In the future, it's gonna have to be off Reddit because of the Top mod here. I think it could be helpful if done well, but who knows, the way LLM's are going, (like phind.com) maybe I'll just give up and move on like so many of the past Mods here. I feel Reddit is 70% time-wasting, and we (the mods) approve less them half the submitted posts :!

    Sorry about ranting on your high quality posts man, insert Dunning-Kruger-effect graph here and you'll understand.

    parent

    Reddit is going the way of the rest of the internet. It is enshittification. I think there are three reasons why this sub is going down the drain:

    1. Reddit pushing more and more short-form video content. This spills over into all subs but also attracts the same crowd as Instagram and Tiktok. The user base is changing. Until a few years ago you would have mostly people deeply interested in a topic. Now you have all the phone-addicted dopamine junkies.
    2. Reddit's upvoting algorithm. It favors constantly new content over high-quality content. This incentivizes slop (human and AI). It would be beautiful if all subreddits' default view was "Top - 1 year". That way, the most upvoted content would always stay on top for a long time. This would also prevent the same questions being asked over and over again. But that would reduce user engagement, as users would come back less often.
    3. The looksmaxxing teenagers.

    I think having a FAQ and/or wiki would be a really good idea. That way, you could just close all threads that always ask the same questions over and over again, and point them at the FAQ/wiki.

    parent root

    I agree. A FAQ/Wiki wold be a great thing.

    We hope to be able to put up one in the not too distant future.

    With regards to what Vencen wrote above - there is nothing stopping him from working on a FAQ/Wiki that can be seen in this subreddit. All contributions to the subreddit are greatly appreciated. See my reply to Vencen below.

    What you yourself have put together in various posts can for example be useful for such a FAQ/Wiki. Needless to say, your contributions are much appreciated.

    parent root

    Vencen, with all due respect:

    I already told you many times: You are free to make any Wiki/FAQ that you want and that all of it, or parts of it, absolutely can function as a official Wiki/FAQ as long as the rest of the more experienced active mods agree with it. So please refrain from writing things that are untrue. You act as if you are being suppressed or something, and it could not be further from the truth.

    Moreover, why would you assume that someone who has about 1 year of experience in this field alone can put together an official Wiki/FAQ that should be accepted in its entirety by default? There are few areas in this sphere where there’s a consensus, and this actually is a contributing factor as to why the subreddit currently has no official Wiki/FAQ.

    I already told you to stop passive-aggressively referring to me as the ‘top mod’.

    Your attitude is strange sometimes; what’s with all the drama?

    As for LLM's (A.I.): Keep in mind that the most important part of the mewing/Orthotropic movement lies in things that A.I. can not help with, such as providing mewing testimonials and producing mewing evidence. Moreover, the fact that A.I. can help with reducing a lot of basic questions being submitted to this subreddit is in my opinion a great thing, not a bad thing.

    parent root