People seem to forget that in house military procurement is a different variety of social welfare, where the government is injecting money into the civilian economy.
It would also be helpful for humanitarian missions when port facilities are damaged or unavailable, though I would hope for more then one, preferably three at least for better availability.
One on deployment, one at port prepping for deployment, which allows the third hull to receive proper maintenance. Three is a good number to maintain constant deployment and rotate through proper maintenance.
Would be nice buuuuut, first of cost overruns will make it ridiculously expensive
Then we need at least 3 if we want to have one always available
Also a landing craft wouldn’t sail alone in a conflict scenario meaning we need to attach a few river class to protect it…we’re only planning on getting 15 which means we’d only have ~5 active ships at any given time
The GLAAM Davie is proposing for this is decently armed in it's own right. For arctic emergency use and light constabulary needs, it's more than capable. Send a CDC corvette which will also be ice capable and have VLS, and youre all set.
Sorry, but as an ex combat arms soldier, an amphibious landing craft in the Arctic doesn’t make a lot of sense from a survival point of view. Moisture is deadly in sub zero environments. Maybe a hover craft application or helicopters, but a landing craft makes zero sense. How’s it supposed to overcome shore ice, ice shelves, etc. Winter warfare sucks big time, no amount of goretex, thinsulate, wool, down, etc. make it comfortable, only survivable. It’s affects everything from the lubricant you use on your weapons, the POL you need for your engines, the materials used for shelters, to how you deal with human waste. When it comes to Arctic operations I’d look to the Rangers, not the Navy, for advice as to what would work.
Sorry, I missed the reference buried in the article. How about ditching the stupid amphibious descriptor from the title. It’s more big ice breakers with Arctic off-loading capabilities. Still doesn’t change the fact that fighting in an Arctic environment is highly specialized, with most of that knowledge being concentrated in the Canadian Rangers. Just try land navigation without satellite assistance, magnetic compasses are unreliable, star navigation is possible given the long nights but it’s a whole different skill set, your best navigation buddy would be a Ranger with local area knowledge, an inuksuk isn’t a fanciful art piece in the North, it’s a beacon.
Are you telling me canadian forces dont have the ability to navigate by compass? That is fucking tragic.
I do agree that amphibohs xapabilities for the canadian arctic woould and should not look like traditional amphibious warfare vessels. And more like a the arctic patrkl vessels.
The horsepower required to move something like the Kitty Hawk through even first year ice would almost certainly require a nuclear reactor.
The magnetic North and true North aren’t in the same place when you get North of 60, magnetic compasses get erratic and you can’t depend on them for land navigation, you can navigate via the stars but it’s a different skill set. Plus when you are North of the tree line navigation via contour lines gets very difficult. I’m not saying the Canadian Forces can’t navigate in the Arctic, I’m saying it takes much different skill sets than you would use in the provincial areas of Canada and that operations in the Arctic are greatly enhanced by the participation of ancillaries like the Canadian Rangers.
Yes, they have the capability, but it’s a different skill set. Most Canadian winter warfare training takes place on bases well below the tree line, Petawawa, Shilo, Gagetown, Wainwright, etc. Take astral navigation, even with long winter nights in the south, light pollution interferes with training. Nothing replaces actually training in the Arctic. Less frequently small units will exercise in the Arctic, one because the resources to survive in the far North, especially for individuals that don’t live there are substantial. Two, you really need help from Canadian Rangers and they are a limited resource. Three, the far North isn’t able to support large numbers of people in concentrated numbers. There’s a reason 98% of the Canadian population is close to the US/ Canada border.
Yes, for sure. Even if you are doing celestial navigation in northern ont. It it looks very different 30deg north at 75 Longitude, and a sky with excellent viewing is so much brighter with a lot more stars visiable. Local guides always know so much more then is on any map.
I wish we never caved on the Avro Arrow. We are a nation of brains and resources, yet we continue to sell our raw materials off, I would love to see a home grown defense and and industry here that includes plans, ships, subs drones and space flight
I would love to see government owned refineries refining our natural gass and oil, pre fabbed houses instead of wholesaling raw lumber you get the gist, this also includes a huge lift to all renewable, that's my wishlist sorry for the rant Goodnight
Fuck yeah we love in-house Canadian innovation and manufacturing
Until we have to foot the bill.
Just curious... Where do you think the money goes if we were to produce something like this in-house? Do you think it vanishes?
People seem to forget that in house military procurement is a different variety of social welfare, where the government is injecting money into the civilian economy.
Seems like a good idea and a no brainer.
It would also be helpful for humanitarian missions when port facilities are damaged or unavailable, though I would hope for more then one, preferably three at least for better availability.
One on deployment, one at port prepping for deployment, which allows the third hull to receive proper maintenance. Three is a good number to maintain constant deployment and rotate through proper maintenance.
Would be nice buuuuut, first of cost overruns will make it ridiculously expensive
Then we need at least 3 if we want to have one always available
Also a landing craft wouldn’t sail alone in a conflict scenario meaning we need to attach a few river class to protect it…we’re only planning on getting 15 which means we’d only have ~5 active ships at any given time
The GLAAM Davie is proposing for this is decently armed in it's own right. For arctic emergency use and light constabulary needs, it's more than capable. Send a CDC corvette which will also be ice capable and have VLS, and youre all set.
Right but we would need to design and build an ice capable corvette… might as well strengthen the river class hull at that point
The CDC will be ice-capable, apparently.
Could pair it with the idea that one vice admiral had to order some corvettes.
Maybe have a river or two leading some corvettes as escort of a future amphibious ship?
Sorry, but as an ex combat arms soldier, an amphibious landing craft in the Arctic doesn’t make a lot of sense from a survival point of view. Moisture is deadly in sub zero environments. Maybe a hover craft application or helicopters, but a landing craft makes zero sense. How’s it supposed to overcome shore ice, ice shelves, etc. Winter warfare sucks big time, no amount of goretex, thinsulate, wool, down, etc. make it comfortable, only survivable. It’s affects everything from the lubricant you use on your weapons, the POL you need for your engines, the materials used for shelters, to how you deal with human waste. When it comes to Arctic operations I’d look to the Rangers, not the Navy, for advice as to what would work.
The article specifically says this would likely consist of hovercrafts and helicopters modified for arctic conditions.
Sorry, I missed the reference buried in the article. How about ditching the stupid amphibious descriptor from the title. It’s more big ice breakers with Arctic off-loading capabilities. Still doesn’t change the fact that fighting in an Arctic environment is highly specialized, with most of that knowledge being concentrated in the Canadian Rangers. Just try land navigation without satellite assistance, magnetic compasses are unreliable, star navigation is possible given the long nights but it’s a whole different skill set, your best navigation buddy would be a Ranger with local area knowledge, an inuksuk isn’t a fanciful art piece in the North, it’s a beacon.
Are you telling me canadian forces dont have the ability to navigate by compass? That is fucking tragic.
I do agree that amphibohs xapabilities for the canadian arctic woould and should not look like traditional amphibious warfare vessels. And more like a the arctic patrkl vessels.
The horsepower required to move something like the Kitty Hawk through even first year ice would almost certainly require a nuclear reactor.
The magnetic North and true North aren’t in the same place when you get North of 60, magnetic compasses get erratic and you can’t depend on them for land navigation, you can navigate via the stars but it’s a different skill set. Plus when you are North of the tree line navigation via contour lines gets very difficult. I’m not saying the Canadian Forces can’t navigate in the Arctic, I’m saying it takes much different skill sets than you would use in the provincial areas of Canada and that operations in the Arctic are greatly enhanced by the participation of ancillaries like the Canadian Rangers.
Yes, I understand the difficulties, I was curious if the Canadian Forces had the skill set, as individuals, or functionally or even as an insritution.
Yes, they have the capability, but it’s a different skill set. Most Canadian winter warfare training takes place on bases well below the tree line, Petawawa, Shilo, Gagetown, Wainwright, etc. Take astral navigation, even with long winter nights in the south, light pollution interferes with training. Nothing replaces actually training in the Arctic. Less frequently small units will exercise in the Arctic, one because the resources to survive in the far North, especially for individuals that don’t live there are substantial. Two, you really need help from Canadian Rangers and they are a limited resource. Three, the far North isn’t able to support large numbers of people in concentrated numbers. There’s a reason 98% of the Canadian population is close to the US/ Canada border.
Yes, for sure. Even if you are doing celestial navigation in northern ont. It it looks very different 30deg north at 75 Longitude, and a sky with excellent viewing is so much brighter with a lot more stars visiable. Local guides always know so much more then is on any map.
They plan to do D day style attacks in the north?
Murmansk or Bust!
The ability to have an ice rated landing ship would be a gsme changer for the RCN
I wish we never caved on the Avro Arrow. We are a nation of brains and resources, yet we continue to sell our raw materials off, I would love to see a home grown defense and and industry here that includes plans, ships, subs drones and space flight
I would love to see government owned refineries refining our natural gass and oil, pre fabbed houses instead of wholesaling raw lumber you get the gist, this also includes a huge lift to all renewable, that's my wishlist sorry for the rant Goodnight