if a new US government wants to make a new trade deal, we should still entertain it whenever it is in our interest. but the context of our calculations have changed. we must now consider any trade agreement to be at maximum a 4 year length, and approach any deal accordingly.
Really 2 years max, because if the house or senate flips, which isn’t uncommon for off year elections, then whatever the democratic president agrees to is basically null and void.
Especially if they are following the constitution and governing by actually letting the senate and congress pass treaties instead of executive orders
I'd be willing to entertain a reestablishment of previous relations, but only if there were a guarantee of lasting consequences for those involved with this regime.
Given that the Presidential Pardon and Hague Invasion act exists the chance of any of them seeing prison for more than a couple years is basically 0. White supremacists in the US have made sure that the options to punish their crimes against humanity are either a slap on the wrist or capital punishment, and the US will never execute powerful white supremacists.
but only if there were a guarantee of lasting consequences for those involved with this regime.
sorry, best they can do is 50 different "NYT best seller" books about various people's experience in that "administration" and the most uninspiring 48th president
We should not entertain any deal with the US. Even under NAFTA the US only respected the deal when it benefited them. They've never negotiated in good faith with us.
I think that if the US is willing to rip out the MAGA movement stem and root that we should be willing to reestablish trade. Unfortunately, that’s pretty unlikely. I’m reminded frequently of the “why is the US the way it is?/because they didn’t adequately punish the confederacy” meme. If they thoroughly investigate the Trump administration and punish the lawbreakers appropriately then I would be willing to reenter good faith negotiations.
America is a 50/50 country politically and that won't change. They will alternate between MAGA and Democrat administrations going forward and the depradations inflicted on the system under MAGA won't be able to be corrected over time. America can never again be trusted for commercial, economic and defense treaty alliances by any democratic western country.
This statement is naive and false. You are not going to have a situation where you "alternate" back and forth between one side that attempts violent coups and one side that takes power peaceably through elections while ceding power peaceably when it loses.
This is an obviously unsustainable situation. One or the other has to give.
I think Americans need to come to terms with this reality. A lot are acting like “oh we’ll just vote them out next time and all will be forgiven” but the world has moved on. We’ve all realized that trade with the US hinges every 4 years on its population not being complete idiots and that is far from guaranteed.
World trade needs stability and there’s none to be had with a country that will tear up its agreements every 4 years. The world is moving on. America wanted to be an island, they can be one.
Even if they voted Dems and they genuinely tried to repair the relationship, and our federal government also agreed and played ball; they have likely caused entire generations of Canadians to be forever bitter towards the US and it will likely take a generation or two for things to slowly go back to “normal”
Even if Trump was impeached and removed tomorrow, I won’t trust the US at all and will still avoid travelling there as much as possible. I will still try and avoid buying US products and look for alternatives. I don’t even know what it would take for me to forget about boycotting and not actively try to avoid US shit
Even if they voted Dems and they genuinely tried to repair the relationship,
We would need to see them making those repair efforts consistently over a succession of several presidencies before it would be prudent to start thinking about trusting them again.
The decision makers south of the border have not exactly been ambiguous on this topic. It is our denial that is keeping the hope alive.
We should move on ( yes, it will hurt) and diversify. If we chase that path at least there is hope of success one day. Putting all eggs in one basket was never a good plan.
Half the Dems are complicit in the neglect of their democracy. Even if they manage to have an election and the Dems win huge, what's to stop America from going full retard again in the following election?
Their soft power has been destroyed anyway. America would have to make massive changes to its system, punish those who broke it to begin with, with lengthy prison sentences, but I doubt that would be enough to regain trust with its former allies.
Canada has things the United States needs. Lets start with Oil, Electricity, Critical Minerals, Lumber, Potash and Water just to name a few. Canadians are pissed. We are so pissed that we have disowned Wayne Re-Gretzky the Great Once and have been dumping Crown Royal is the Streets.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/LU11P_zBaWY
The Boycott of everything American is Real and that includes Travel. Sure trade between Canada and the USA has been easy but those days are done. You see because of Canada's 40 Million Population (about the same as California) we don't have to sell much to make a profit. But with each shipment of LNG to Asia, Canada collects 40 Billion Dollars. And when 340 Million Americans start paying $7.00 per gallon for gasoline things will geat real exciting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEEHSWNPAPg
Our reliance on the yanks has been a sore spot for a long time.
Unfortunately for Canada, we waited until the US got even more insane (its been a shit country for decades now, lets be honest) before we did anything.
When republicans are out of power and trump is gone, Canada will establish a lot of those trade deals again, we are just too close to them to not do business and the name of the game is money, money, money, so Canadian companies will jump as soon as the yanks say they want to buy without markup.
All this is to say, we should keep trying to strengthen ties with Europe and the rest of the world before the yanks. The USA is the great threat, to Canada and the west.
Yep, i get why, but its a bit like handcuffing yourself to the dumb bully, sure you get to enjoy some peripheral advantages but it still means having to deal with a shit situation.
Think of how much more progressive Canada could be if we didnt have to constantly deal with the USA BS.
Europeans pity us, not as much as they pity the USA but we were on track to be a better place for a long time but when the USA started to go insane (look at Reagans administration), we started to follow, and its been a nightmare for normal people.
Anyway, I know im preaching to the choir here but the silver lining is Canada has been forced to face our reliance on the yanks and any steps we take to decouple from that place, the better.
It’s a moot point. After they invade Venezuela, it’s a toss up whether we or Greenland will be next, but in any case we will be invaded/annexed within the next year.
I’m not wanting to re-establish a normal relationship with the US unless we see at least two straight Dem presidencies, who actually take material action at tackling their corruption/fascism.
And he is. I follow trade pretty closely and the Carney government has many treaty negotiations in progress, and several of them are substantial and will definitely change the balance of export trade significantly once they hit full steam.
I hope the Globe is addressing this to the business leaders. The government can establish all sorts of trade deals, but they can't force businesses to get off their asses and take advantage of them.
As Lieutenant Speers tells Private Blythe in Band of Brothers: "The only reason you can't function is that you haven't accepted that you're already dead. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you'll be able to function as a soldier is supposed to function".
No shit. Oh and no it wont be back if they actually imprison a few figureheads and elect the dems a few times because without radical change those dems will still try to use these deals to bully us into submission, they will just do it under an auspice of 'friendship' instead of blatant supremacist beliefs.
Why bother wasting time and resources negotiating a worse trade deal that Trump or who ever proceeds him can just decide not to honour? The USA doesn’t honour its trade agreements, defence agreements, or their world.
Oh we've accepted it.
Even if there is another election, the new dem US government will be eager to reestablish trade.
But our new trade agreements with everyone else are way better than with the US - if only because we are likely to actually get paid.
if a new US government wants to make a new trade deal, we should still entertain it whenever it is in our interest. but the context of our calculations have changed. we must now consider any trade agreement to be at maximum a 4 year length, and approach any deal accordingly.
Really 2 years max, because if the house or senate flips, which isn’t uncommon for off year elections, then whatever the democratic president agrees to is basically null and void.
Especially if they are following the constitution and governing by actually letting the senate and congress pass treaties instead of executive orders
I'd be willing to entertain a reestablishment of previous relations, but only if there were a guarantee of lasting consequences for those involved with this regime.
Given that the Presidential Pardon and Hague Invasion act exists the chance of any of them seeing prison for more than a couple years is basically 0. White supremacists in the US have made sure that the options to punish their crimes against humanity are either a slap on the wrist or capital punishment, and the US will never execute powerful white supremacists.
sorry, best they can do is 50 different "NYT best seller" books about various people's experience in that "administration" and the most uninspiring 48th president
The US will first have to do a lot of repair work over a few decades to demonstrate their trustworthiness.
We should not entertain any deal with the US. Even under NAFTA the US only respected the deal when it benefited them. They've never negotiated in good faith with us.
How many times have we won disputes over softwood lumber now with the WTO? Like 4?
Yet they still continue to appeal and do it again and again. Doesn’t even matter if it is a Dem or Repub, they keep trying the same shit
Yes, why make any deal at all with a partner with a track record of ripping up the deal any time they choose.
Easier to plan around a price with no deal than one that might or might not be the same week to week.
I think that if the US is willing to rip out the MAGA movement stem and root that we should be willing to reestablish trade. Unfortunately, that’s pretty unlikely. I’m reminded frequently of the “why is the US the way it is?/because they didn’t adequately punish the confederacy” meme. If they thoroughly investigate the Trump administration and punish the lawbreakers appropriately then I would be willing to reenter good faith negotiations.
It’s probably never going to happen, though.
America is a 50/50 country politically and that won't change. They will alternate between MAGA and Democrat administrations going forward and the depradations inflicted on the system under MAGA won't be able to be corrected over time. America can never again be trusted for commercial, economic and defense treaty alliances by any democratic western country.
This statement is naive and false. You are not going to have a situation where you "alternate" back and forth between one side that attempts violent coups and one side that takes power peaceably through elections while ceding power peaceably when it loses.
This is an obviously unsustainable situation. One or the other has to give.
Work into the contract that if a republican gets elected the contract is null and void 😂
I think Americans need to come to terms with this reality. A lot are acting like “oh we’ll just vote them out next time and all will be forgiven” but the world has moved on. We’ve all realized that trade with the US hinges every 4 years on its population not being complete idiots and that is far from guaranteed.
World trade needs stability and there’s none to be had with a country that will tear up its agreements every 4 years. The world is moving on. America wanted to be an island, they can be one.
Even if they voted Dems and they genuinely tried to repair the relationship, and our federal government also agreed and played ball; they have likely caused entire generations of Canadians to be forever bitter towards the US and it will likely take a generation or two for things to slowly go back to “normal”
Even if Trump was impeached and removed tomorrow, I won’t trust the US at all and will still avoid travelling there as much as possible. I will still try and avoid buying US products and look for alternatives. I don’t even know what it would take for me to forget about boycotting and not actively try to avoid US shit
We would need to see them making those repair efforts consistently over a succession of several presidencies before it would be prudent to start thinking about trusting them again.
And nobody in their right mind will trust any new trade deal to be respected after the next US election.
Yeah, that's fine.
Personally, I don’t want to do business with Nazi’s. Hope the feds agree. Diversify and move forward.
The decision makers south of the border have not exactly been ambiguous on this topic. It is our denial that is keeping the hope alive.
We should move on ( yes, it will hurt) and diversify. If we chase that path at least there is hope of success one day. Putting all eggs in one basket was never a good plan.
I think the world is very aware now that they need to diversify from the us.
Just waiting for Bill Blair to say the G20 Toronto protesters were absolutely fucking right...
The real question is why are we still keeping 70% of our forex reserves in USD. We should keep that at an absolute minimum for functioning trade.
Think Canada and the rest of the world have already moved on.
Half the Dems are complicit in the neglect of their democracy. Even if they manage to have an election and the Dems win huge, what's to stop America from going full retard again in the following election?
Their soft power has been destroyed anyway. America would have to make massive changes to its system, punish those who broke it to begin with, with lengthy prison sentences, but I doubt that would be enough to regain trust with its former allies.
Yup, they need new ammendents to fix the flaws that have been exposed.
Trump killing his own deal is funny ..
America is modern day Rome
This is not a Trade War, It's a Trade Divorce.
And Tariffs??? Tariff are a Tax, that the American Public are paying.
Canadians did not elect Mark Carney to negotiate a New Trade Deal with Trump
Canadians elected Mark Carney to negotiate Trade Deals with other countries.
Canada already has a Trade Deal with the USA called the CUSMA but Trump has decided not to honour it
What makes anyone think Trump will honour the next Trade Deal
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZooWxITHNtE
Canada has things the United States needs. Lets start with Oil, Electricity, Critical Minerals, Lumber, Potash and Water just to name a few. Canadians are pissed. We are so pissed that we have disowned Wayne Re-Gretzky the Great Once and have been dumping Crown Royal is the Streets. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/LU11P_zBaWY
The Boycott of everything American is Real and that includes Travel. Sure trade between Canada and the USA has been easy but those days are done. You see because of Canada's 40 Million Population (about the same as California) we don't have to sell much to make a profit. But with each shipment of LNG to Asia, Canada collects 40 Billion Dollars. And when 340 Million Americans start paying $7.00 per gallon for gasoline things will geat real exciting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEEHSWNPAPg
Our reliance on the yanks has been a sore spot for a long time.
Unfortunately for Canada, we waited until the US got even more insane (its been a shit country for decades now, lets be honest) before we did anything.
When republicans are out of power and trump is gone, Canada will establish a lot of those trade deals again, we are just too close to them to not do business and the name of the game is money, money, money, so Canadian companies will jump as soon as the yanks say they want to buy without markup.
All this is to say, we should keep trying to strengthen ties with Europe and the rest of the world before the yanks. The USA is the great threat, to Canada and the west.
No PM was going to campaign on handicapping our trade before this, It was political suicide.
Yep, i get why, but its a bit like handcuffing yourself to the dumb bully, sure you get to enjoy some peripheral advantages but it still means having to deal with a shit situation.
Think of how much more progressive Canada could be if we didnt have to constantly deal with the USA BS.
Europeans pity us, not as much as they pity the USA but we were on track to be a better place for a long time but when the USA started to go insane (look at Reagans administration), we started to follow, and its been a nightmare for normal people.
Anyway, I know im preaching to the choir here but the silver lining is Canada has been forced to face our reliance on the yanks and any steps we take to decouple from that place, the better.
We have certainly been working on trade deals with other countries for a long time and we've signed a lot of them in the past 20 years.
The US is just an enormous market and really close geographically. It's naturally convenient trade.
It’s a moot point. After they invade Venezuela, it’s a toss up whether we or Greenland will be next, but in any case we will be invaded/annexed within the next year.
Not just North America, the whole global trade system has shifted.
I’m not wanting to re-establish a normal relationship with the US unless we see at least two straight Dem presidencies, who actually take material action at tackling their corruption/fascism.
I accepted it when I voted in Carney.
He's supposed to be pursuing that kinda shit far more aggressively.
And he is. I follow trade pretty closely and the Carney government has many treaty negotiations in progress, and several of them are substantial and will definitely change the balance of export trade significantly once they hit full steam.
What we really need is the private sector to follow through and establish the trade. Harper and Trudeau inked a bunch of trade deals too.
Carney is likely better positioned to actually get more push on that, but it's still up to the companies at the end of the day.
We need to force the private sector instead actually.
NONE of them are good at doing anything willingly.
I hope the Globe is addressing this to the business leaders. The government can establish all sorts of trade deals, but they can't force businesses to get off their asses and take advantage of them.
Can we thrive by strengthening our trade relationships with other countries?
Logistically, USA is convenient but otherwise bypass them whenever possible.
We're done with the USA.
As Lieutenant Speers tells Private Blythe in Band of Brothers: "The only reason you can't function is that you haven't accepted that you're already dead. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you'll be able to function as a soldier is supposed to function".
Ground breaking news…..7 years ago
No shit. Oh and no it wont be back if they actually imprison a few figureheads and elect the dems a few times because without radical change those dems will still try to use these deals to bully us into submission, they will just do it under an auspice of 'friendship' instead of blatant supremacist beliefs.
That was always an option.
it might be dead it might not be.. we know trump is brain damaged so we aren't going to expect the smartest decision
Why bother wasting time and resources negotiating a worse trade deal that Trump or who ever proceeds him can just decide not to honour? The USA doesn’t honour its trade agreements, defence agreements, or their world.