I'm renting a condo and recently the unit above me was bought by a family of 6 adults and 2 small kids. It's a 1br, so well above VA's limit for max occupancy. They're awful people, incredibly loud, throw their trash off the balcony (which ends up on mine) and I cant deal with it anymore. The condo association won't do anything about it, so now I'm trying to figure out who to report them to. Is it a zoning issue? I'm used to dealing with apartment noise, but not 8 peoples worth of noise. Plus, I feel awful for the kids living in those conditions. Any guidance is appreciated.
Code compliance is the answer here. They will investigate
Except that (a) they won't and (b) there is no "enforcement". The problem you're describing is nothing more than a totally standard, common, acceptable situation in Fairfax County.
Probably not as advertised. Very different from what it was 40 years ago.
If children are involved, this is where I’d start. A wellness check or something probably?
https://www.dss.virginia.gov/family/cps/index.cgi
CPS should be a last step. Overcrowding alone usually does not trigger removal. Code enforcement and fire safety checks are the right first move. They address the conditions without escalating directly to child services.
CPS said they won't do anything unless there a signs of abuse or neglect. Somehow living with 6 adults in a 650sq ft condo doesn't count as neglect.
Check F and H for that specifically
https://law.lis.virginia.gov/admincode/title22/agency40/chapter131/section190/
Edit: this applies to foster homes. Normal, private homes don’t seem to be affected by this. I’d recommend going with an over occupancy law or something if you can find one
That law applies to foster families and prospective adoptive families.
Ohh, shit you are right. I’d heard this before and thought it applied in general. When I searched I didn’t pay super close attention my bad
Now, I have no doubt that, were CPS tipped, and started an investigation based on said tip, they’d likely use the standards outlined in the law as part of their assessment as to whether the children are being properly cared for.
That said, “poverty” in and of itself doesn’t serve as legal justification for removal of children from their parent(s)’ custody. The bar for CPS to actually take away children from a home is exceptionally high.
Aside from the practical barrier of there being a shortage of willing and able foster parents and group homes in which to place children, there is also an empirical understanding that, absent very obvious abuse or neglect, any benefit derived from removing the child from their home is outweighed by the emotional trauma inflicted on them in so doing.
Thanks. It's more than just those two. The kids (boy and girl, over 3 years old) share a bed in the living room, and 2 of the adults are in another bed in the living room. The other 4 adults share the bedroom.
Did you visit them? How do you know where they are sleep?
The neighbor across from them was given a tour after they renovated. So not only are they ok with living like that, they're proud of it.
Or perhaps this is all they can afford. Times are tough, life is expensive. I don’t think anyone actually chooses to live like this.
Considering they had enough money to buy and renovate it, I dont think they're struggling.
8 people in a one bedroom. You think that’s a choice? Maybe the renovation was necessary to make it function better.
When I was trying to find the codes and compliance for Fauquier it kept telling of rules for the number of people in a bedroom. From what I quickly read, four adults don't comply with VA regs. Someone at the phone number on the page I sent should be able to answer your questions.
These are ...surprisingly strict?
My niblings share beds when I visit so there is room for me, it's no big deal?
3 year olds need gender segregation? I shared with my other-gender sibling until we were 6 and 7, surely that's not weird? It seems common in a bunch of families I know of?
I understand the general reasoning for these, but some of them really seem to just be penalizing being poor.
Rules are for provider homes, so a little bit different. In general though they probably don't want to be placing children into poor foster homes
Yeah, poverty ≠ neglect.
They had enough money to buy and renovate the unit.
Yeah, by combining the earnings of six adults, they were able to afford a 625 sq. ft. condo that was in need of renovation. It’s not the flex you think it is.
You're assuming it was in need of renovation. It wasn't. All I'm saying is they had at least $60k for a down payment. Doesn't mean theyre well off, but doesn't seem like poverty to me.
Ignoring the fact it’s trivial to get low or no down payment mortgages, half a dozen grown-ups aren’t “well off” by the standards of Fairfax County, if they’re all living in a one bedroom condo.
The situation you describe is as much an indictment against the county, for failing to provide for sufficient affordable housing, as it is anything else.
I'm in Fauquier county. I'm a single parent with a full time job and a side hustle. I'm broke, but my rent gets paid without breaking occupancy codes.
Yeah, I guess it’s probably hard to neglect someone if they’re always within a few hundred feet of you
https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title36/chapter6/section36-105.4/
email § 36-105.4. Occupancy standards for residential dwelling units. The owner or managing agent of a residential dwelling unit may develop and implement occupancy standards restricting the maximum number of occupants permitted to occupy a dwelling unit to two persons per bedroom, which is presumed to be reasonable. For purposes of Chapter 5.1 (§ 36-96.1 et seq.), such occupancy standard is subject to the provisions of applicable state and federal laws and regulations. Under the Uniform Statewide Building Code, each bedroom shall contain at least 70 square feet of floor area, and each bedroom occupied by more than one person shall contain at least 50 square feet of floor area for each occupant. Reasonable occupancy standards of an owner or managing agent shall not be enforceable under the provisions of the Uniform Statewide Building Code.
2013, c. 526.
I guess what I need to know is who do I contact about enforcement? Or would a letter from a lawyer be enough to force the condo association to act? I dont know how any of this works.
Try the fire marshall.
This is the answer.
That statute helps, but enforcement usually falls on local code officials and fire marshal inspections. Square footage and egress matter more than bedroom count. Reporting through the city or county gets faster results than citing law to the HOA.
I was on a condo board for awhile. It’s harder to enforce things as a board than you would think. You may or not be able to levy a fine. And even if you do it could take months or years to get a resolution.
Your best bet is to call the police about the trash and tell them about everything else that’s going on.
This.
Call the police about…trash?? Really?
I mean throwing trash off your balcony would be littering. So yes.
Yes, really.
Your association can't ignore a written complaint from you.
Well written, pictures, audio, etc. Leave out the "....I feel awful for the kids......"
If you hear a fight or a possible assault, you call 911 to report it. As many times as you have to.
Then THAT gets documented and given to your association.
THEN you call the state Department of Ignoring Child Abuse (or whatever they call it) and then you report your concerns for the welfare of the children.
Op says they’re a renter. If it’s a condo association they can absolutely ignore renters complaints and only deal with the owner.
For my 2 cents, talk to your landlord and tell them about the things that are making the unit uninhabitable (cigarettes (if there are any) and other trash falling into your space).
If you’re a renter, your contract is with your landlord and they are the ones that need to reach out to the association to remediate breaches in the condo docs/community policies.
Edit: corrected to uninhabitable
The owners of 2 other condos have already complained to the association too. They were told there's nothing they can do, and recommend calling CPS, which won't do anything unless there are signs of abuse or neglect. When I complained about the trash, I was told they won't do anything unless I have a video of them throwing it because there's no way to prove it was them.
Can you put a motion sensor blink camera out there? Like $15 on Amazon and a month free of recording - which should be enough time to get some evidence.
I'm up for trying, but not sure how I could set it up to see their balcony from mine.
I’m invested in your journey because I once lived below a 3-bedroom that had a 10+ adults and at least 5 toddlers. On top of that they would host Sunday 6:00 am prayer service with at 20 people. We ended up breaking our lease and leaving. Get an extension cord. Put the camera on the ground close to your ledge pointing up, you can see the view on your phone. I would maybe try and hide it with a plant or something. May the odds be in your favor!
I'd be careful about calling 911. You can get in trouble for calling if it's not a true emergency.
Non-emergency line would be okay - they won’t send someone out if they don’t think it’s necessary
County code enforcement or fire marshal. Both should be concerned.
The most likely answer here is that you will need to move. I’m sorry.
Trust me, if I could afford it I would.
Is there places you can place reviews online. Sometimes if they think it will scare off other renters, they might do something.
Pretty sad you can’t legally hold people Accountable
Which county? For Fairfax county, see https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/code/multiple-occupancymultiple-dwelling
If you don't have cockroaches yet, you will eventually because of them. My ex had neighbors like that and the entire stack had a roach infestation because of all the trash.
We have mice now. So that's fun. I'm in Fauquier county. I'll look up code violation enforcement.
Oh, Fauquier county isn’t going to do shit about a situation like that. The downside of the small government footprint and low property taxes is that the county will actively avoid enforcing stuff like zoning and noise ordinances. This ain’t Fairfax.
My ex called them ratatouille so they would seem less gross, lol. Roaches are coming, sorry. Start spraying and setting traps now.
Figure out whatever the equivalent board is in your county and submit a complaint. 6 adults and 2 kids in one bedroom is nuts.
Is there a code violation based on square footage? You can contact county Code Enforcement to get some answers. Are they all related? If not then the owner can only sublet to 4 unrelated persons. Here's the link to Code Compliance. All these VA counties need to start enforcing these rules. Instead they run away like scared kids when they are confronted with a violation. Oh nothing to see here. I wish you luck. I had my own run in with the zoning folks to no avail. It took the mortgage meltdown from many years ago to flush the situation out. Otherwise it would still be a SFH run like a hotel with cars everywhere. https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/code/multiple-occupancymultiple-dwelling#:~:text=Fairfax%20County%20has%20household%20living%20rules%20to,too%20many%20people%20living%20in%20the%20home.
Yeah I feel you on this one. Currently living in a condo beneath the same kind of thing. 4 adults, 4 kids, large dogs, sometimes additional adults and groups of children (looks like they may be running a daycare up there lmao). Noise 24/7 and loud jumping on the ground, trash all over our driveway. Asked them to keep it down when we first moved in and who we think is the mom said she can’t control her kids when they’re jumping on the floor because they’re playing oculus…. Hoping you figure this out because I totally get that it sucks.
Report them to the county for over-crowding.
In Prince William County it’s 311 - https://www.pwcva.gov/311/
Call Code enforcement for overcrowding and report it.
Here is the website for complaints and enforcement for Fauquier Co. I would start here. https://www.fauquiercounty.gov/government/departments-a-g/community-development/complaints-enforcement
It was crazy what I had to dig through to find it. If they can't help, ask who to be directed to. If they aren't violating Fauquier Co codes, they may be violating Virginia code but there are loads of exceptions to all of it. Good luck.
Thank you!
This is not just noise. Start documenting everything. Dates, times, trash incidents, videos if safe. Send it in writing to the condo association and the property owner if you can identify them. Force a paper trail.
For occupancy, contact the county zoning or code enforcement office, not the HOA. A one bedroom with eight people usually triggers a fire code or housing code review. Trash dumping from a balcony is also a separate violation. Animal control or sanitation can flag it too if debris keeps landing on your unit.
If the noise continues, call non emergency police during quiet hours. Repeated calls matter more than one report. Focus on behavior and safety, not lifestyle.
Honestly OP id bring your landlord over to hear the racket and tell them you want or discuss breaking your lease. As a renter it unfortunately falls on you to move since the above unit owns.
Just move. I dealt with this shit twice, consecutively. First time, I convinced the owner of the unit to not renew their lease. Out of kindness he obliged, then leased the unit to another large family.
They bought the unit. I can't afford to move.
I feel your pain. I actually sold my condo to end those sleepless nights. It’s just not worth it.
I don’t think innocent kids should pay the consequences and be separated from their family with lifetime tragic consequences. The condominium or Housing Authority need to make the adults responsible for their action. I think Housing Authority can direct you in how the rules apply.
It is well-known that Fairfax County never under any circumstances enforces any of the law pertaining to your situation.
Given that the condo association won't do anything about it, I'm sorry to say the answer is that you are simply fucked. You have exactly one option: move. Preferably to a detached home.
Since you're not getting state money (like those people who live above you), you probably won't able to afford a house in Fairfax County. Start looking at better places to live, maybe not in Virginia.
CPS and the fire marshal.
Fight fire with fire. Get 5 roommates.
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What difference does that make?
So they can learn to be culturally sensitive duh.
This is surprising I thought there were housing standards that said only 2 people can live in a bedroom at a time under reasonable circumstances someone like an infant can also occupy the room.
ICE hotline.
If their a minority group nothing is going be to done.
HOA doesn’t want to appear racist or police or anyone at that matter.
Your only option is to find a new place to live.
Good Luck OP
You go to talk to them and nicely ask them to be more respectful of the trash situation and the noise. Also remember that noise above is part of apartment living. I don’t doubt with extra people that it’s extra noise, but communication and a little more understanding is what you need here.
Lol that has been tried. They dont give a fuck.
Lol
If they truly all immediate family, you can't do anything about it. I've had this problem before, and unless they're not all related you can't do anything.
Ask ai, "give me a step by step guide of how and what authorities to get involved to solve a housing occupancy issue"