I remember way back in an ethics class there was a teacher who wanted to create a discussion in class and the ethical problem he described came down to "If you have a car crash and your insurance pays you $10000 but your mechanic tells you they can fix your car for $2000, do you pay the rest of the money back to the insurance company?"
He was genuinely surprised when every single person in class agreed that the correct answer was "Fuck no, why would I pay that back? That money stays in my bank account!"
I mean.... That's what the insurance decided it was worth. If they were only willing to pay for actual repairs, they would have paid straight to the body shop. Hell, you're not even obligated to fix or replace your car with the insurance payout. It's money to compensate you for property damage/loss. If you're fine with your property being damaged, that's your business.
My dad's old beater car got clipped by a school bus a few years back. The city's insurance gave him 1.8k, but he only spent about 600 to fix the headlight. Got a pretty sweet payout from that :D
600, 500, I don't really remember the details anymore. Of course I could always ask him since I don't think he'd really forget a silly story like that, and if the details are wrong I can edit my post :] but yeah, I don't see why it would be super expensive.
If the repairs end up being more than 10k, they sure as shit aren't going to pay you more to cover it. They agreed in advance to a certain amount based on the contract terms binding both parties. And they'll get it back in premiums anyway.
Insurance is gambling where the company already has the massive house advantage.
I'd reckon that depends on how ethically the insurance company operates. Which is to say, for most at least in America, it absolutely isn't inethical to take that money, at least.
Well yeh the ethics teacher is probably trying to get students to consider the underlying issue and the 'insurance money to repair your car' example is semi-arbitrary, ie. it's just supposed to be a generic, relatable example. The teacher just hasn't considered (a) how insurance works and (b) insurance companies are evil.
If the example was, say, you are filling in a request for money from a charity, you accidently write 10,000 where you only need 1,000 but they give you the full 10k, then I'm sure the answers would be more mixed
To be fair your ethics teacher sounds too stupid to teach in any school.
If you choose to move to another insurance company and you never used your insurance can you ask your soon to be previous insurance company for all the premiums you paid to it without getting anything back? No? Oh well that's unethical.
can you ask your soon to be previous insurance company for all the premiums you paid to it without getting anything back? No? Oh well that's unethical.
I'd argue that it isn't actually unethical. You are technically receiving a service by being covered the entire time. It sucks because it doesn't feel like you're getting any value out of it, though.
I work in an insurance company, handling claims and I agree that once we have paid the claim, the customer can do whatever they want with the money. Thats literally how its supposed to work.
I have supplemental insurance policies and they pay based on submitted bills and not on what you paid. That is how insurance should work. You get a policy and you get the payout deemed correct by the wording of the policy.
Also, private companies, esp big ones, are almost categorically evil (as in, sth like a worker cooperative in the same situatiin would basically always be a lot better) so hurting them is zhe ethical thing to do
The difference in ethics here is the insurance company isn’t gonna be hurt by losing that 10k. A person who can’t cover the cost of a crash to repair or replace certainly will.
You’d have been paying for that car insurance, the insurance company already got enough money out of you. Why would you pay them back the money that they are obligated to give you? The money they pay if something goes wrong is the whole point of insurance, and it’s not like the insurance companies are struggling to stay afloat.
Is it perfectly ethical to keep the money? Probably not.
But I'm not going to lose any sleep over a little lapse in ethics while dealing with an insurance company who was created to fuck you six ways to Sunday.
I just want to highlight, just not is it ethical, it’s literally how it is supposed to work.
There are two ways the payout can work:
1: they pay for all of the repairs to your car after you get them
2: they cut you a check and you figure it out
What the professor was probably trying to say:
Imagine you got to a repair guy and he says that he will charge the insurance $10k and give you $8k in cash. That’s different
It’s 100% ethical, even if the insurance company is a bunch of saints. They set an amount following their own rules and there is no expectation by either side that the recipient only use the money for repairs. They could decide to not repair the car and buy a bike.
I had a theology professor that I actually had a good conversation on abortion with. While he of course desired a world without abortion, he surprised me by making the point that if more “pro-life” people supported programs for single mothers, universal childcare, etc, we’d probably see a sharp drop in “elective” abortions (for lack of a better term for abortions that aren’t done as a last resort to save the mother) I was actually really thrown aback by it. He made me realize that you’re not actually “pro-life” if you just hate abortion but also are the same person to claim EBT, WIC, and other social programs are the devil. You’re just anti-abortion and you don’t give a shit about “life” the moment a baby is delivered.
The only pro-life individuals I’ve met that I can take seriously and have a conversation with are the ones that understand that a massive reason behind elective abortion is economic factors. I’ve known so many people that wanted children but simply couldn’t afford it, several of them grew up in extreme poverty and refused to willingly raise a child in a similar situation. It wouldn’t be fair.
I’m pro-choice but I can certainly respect his opinions as he’s pro social programs to support people who are having these children. I will never agree with his opinion on abortion, but at least he acknowledges one of the reasons why some people get them.
I don’t think it’s that he wanted abortion to just straight up be impossible per se, but more like a world without abortion because it’s not necessary due to humanity having its shit together and there not being a need other than medical emergency, wishful thinking I guess but he was definitely one of the most sane and compassionate pro lifer I’ve discussed the topic with.
but his argument still excludes people who accidentally got pregnant but just don’t want to raise a child, like one does not need a moral reason like their financial situation to justify not wanting to give birth to a kid despite still wanting sex, no contraceptive is 100% effective and abortions should be available to these people as well
Dude I don’t know, I’m just giving context within sharing an old story. You’re reading too deep into my role in the conversation lmaoo I’m pro choice as hell, I don’t know why you’re preaching your points to me, it should’ve been clear in my original comment that I wasn’t on his side. Like yeah, no duh abortions should be available to those people. You’re trying to argue points held by someone who isn’t me, what do you expect to gain from that?
It’s not like I’m about to relay your rebuttals to a first year professor I haven’t seen in two years lmao. Go to the pro life sub with your comment, you’re wasting it on me, I completely support abortion and I wasn’t justifying his views as I don’t hold them myself. That really shouldn’t need to be reexplained but hopefully this helps.
??? i wasn't accusing u of not being pro choice??? i think ur stance was really obvious??? my point was that, in general, you can't stop abortions through any amount social benefits cuz u don't need a "moral" reason to deserve an abortion. Like it was an argument against the stance in general because ur professor is not the one single person on the earth who holds that point of view
"Pro-life" people also generally oppose sex education unless it's abstinence only. If they had the critical thinking skills to take in new info and change their mind they'd see that comprehensive sex education and free access to birth control significantly reduces unwanted births and abortions, and abstinence only sex ed does absolutely fucking nothing.
Education based on science and facts is the silver bullet, and self-contradictory theology based brainwashing is the enemy in every single case.
Abstinence-only sex-ed does do something. It isn't nothing. It is far worse than nothing.
My church had a retreat in the snowy mountains you needed chains on the cars to get to. We weren't allowed phones. It was not a place you could just leave.
They started the weekend with "this weekend, we're going to talk about sex." They didn't inform or get consent from any of our parents.
They spent the entire time teaching abstinence only and showed pictures of coffins from kids who died from STDs, and video interviews with the parents talking about the death of their children. They also had gender-divided small groups where one of the kids asked if sex hurt. One of the leaders said it really did, at first. But you'd get used to it.
I am still incredibly fucked up from that event. I was 11. My mom completely reamed out all of the leaders at our church after I told her what happened. When she gets really mad, she is absolutely terrifying, and she refused to meet the speaker (who led the conference) in person because she didn't think she'd be able to keep herself from attacking her. Lol.
Because of that lady, I thought you could get aids like the common cold for like two years. I thought every night I was going to wake up with aids.
It took me until last year to finally learn what all forms of contraception actually do, as well as what Plan B was and how it worked. I am so mad at the church for robbing me of the fact-based, gentle talk I could've gotten from my mom. Like how my younger siblings did.
So no, abstinence-only sex-ed does far more damage than nothing. It robs people of a fact-based experience. And also can cause people to turn away from the community they built in the churches that preach it.
I agree about the harms of abstinence-only sex ed! I have had similar experiences (though I was a little older than 11, that's crazy).
I went to catholic school and they do not teach about sex/puberty in a health class, it's in religion class and it's called "chastity education" 🤢. So anyways I was taught similar lies, such as "no STD's are curable, if you catch one not only will you never find anyone who loves you, you will eventually die from it." "In a box of condoms, at least one will be completely ineffective" (that was the only form of BC that was talked about, and only to instill fear), and lastly they naturally had to focus on women's virginity and how they lose all value as human beings if they don't save it for marriage. They'll never be able to find anyone who loves them, and are basically "damaged goods".
I was SA'd in uni and let me tell you, the religious trauma on top of what happened made it 1000x worse... even though I didn't really actively follow the religion anymore, those thoughts had been so heavily pushed on me throughout my childhood/adolescence that they created some mega lasting issues.
As such I have serious issues with schools not teaching proper sex ed. You absolutely cannot expect parents to teach their kids about sex; beyond their own religious beliefs preventing it, there is no guarantee that parents are actually informed about sex themselves! They may perpetuate myths that they were taught from their own parents, which can further endanger children. Kids are having sex younger and younger; many of my peers started having sex at age 12!! Not to mention all kids are exposed to sexual material to some degree at increasingly younger ages, whether it's through movies, video games, porn, even freaking advertising! They need to be properly educated so they can protect themselves, and make informed choices! And not only to avoid pregnancy... also STI's, understanding what consent looks like, etc. It should be legally mandated to provide this information, and likely around ages 12-13. This is a hill I will die on.
Also, they need to vaccinate boys and girls against HPV, and they need to create a men's option for birth control (I know there is a promising one in clinical trials and I hope it's approved for use soon). Men deserve to have control over their bodies and their ability to reduce chances of unwanted pregnancy. I know some men who have been baby trapped through their partner sabotaging birth control - one in particular occurred because they were in a particularly volatile state and he was planning to break up with her and she found out, so it was her method of staying with him. People are crazy, and everyone deserves to feel like they have autonomy and control of their own lives, including access to (what my doctor refers to as idiot-proof) birth control methods.
considering how many people who call themselves "pro-life" but are more accurately anti-abortion, it always makes me wonder what the overlap/venn diagram between the "pro-life" crowd and people who support capital punishment is. I honestly wouldn't be at all surprised if it was very nearly a circle.
especially when you consider anti-abortion practices and laws have a tangible effect on long term crime rates without the genuine pro-life postpartum practices your professor made an argument for (which I agree with personally, but I'd also include long term social programs that aren't just for children and single mothers as well, since a lot of preventable suicides/the desire to have been aborted(depression), other mental issues, crime, etc are all directly linked to low quality of living caused by poverty and the stress caused by it).
edit to add: my stance is kind of ambiguous based on what I said, but I'm personally pro-choice for the stated reasons and more - the point I agreed with regarding pro-life values is that if it ends at birth, they aren't pro-life they're anti-abortion/anti-autonomy. If it's paired with support for social programs, post partum care, support for single parents, etc etc — and I mean actual support including campaigning for those things, working with those programs, becoming a non exploitive/abusive foster/adoptive parent, calling out representatives to do more, etc — I'll concede they are at least consistent with their values and won't question their stance. Just campaigning outside clinics against abortion healthcare? yeah no that's just performative bs.
I believe there were a few different things that have been associated with the drop in crime over time. One is abortion, another is the drop in lead use, and I feel like there were at least one or two others.
He made me realize that you’re not actually “pro-life” if you just hate abortion but also are the same person to claim EBT, WIC, and other social programs are the devil. You’re just anti-abortion and you don’t give a shit about “life” the moment a baby is delivered.
I think I realized that sometime after seeing other people mention that these guys are always pro death penalty and refuse to do anything for children in schools.
I'd say I recline corrected, but there's no indication of that guy actually complaining about the body bag, just literally spitting in the face of death.
Everyone who’s currently alive?? Unless theyre people in a psych/mental health ward who are prevented from trying to kill themselves. This is so silly lol
WAIT LOL SOZ i read this wrong lol
I mean, obviously nobody is able to check and confirm every student individually laughed. If that's what the person who posted it to r/happened is hung up on, I'm not even sure what illness they have.
To me, the least believable part is that a teacher would say that and not expect that reaction, but I can't imagine anyone is clever enough to make that up.
Most people I talk to are sadly very passively suicidal without even realizing it. Those people I talk to that say "I don't want to die but I would be okay with not waking up in the morning" and boy do I feel that.
Even me, I had a failed attempt over 5 years ago, and didn't even think I would make it that long in life. Now I'm in my 30s not knowing how I'm still alive and not knowing kind of what to do at this point. Didn't expect to get this far... And not having that much fun actually but I can't say that or I win a free pair of grippy socks and I don't need anymore!
Passive suicidal ideation is so wide spread, and most people don't even realize it.
I'm at a point with my mental health where I'm very firm on the fact, if my depression wants to kill me, it can nut up and figure out how to kill me like a real disease. I'm not doing anyone's dirty work for them.
i think i was like 16 when i realized being passively suicidal wasn’t “normal”. id been okay with not waking up in the morning since i was at most 4, possibly younger but that’s my first actual memory of wishing i could go to sleep and never wake up.
But seriously I'm guessing that the correct answer is that if you offer a person the option to have been born into substantially different circumstances and they show even the smallest spec of longing for a life that could have been, then it isn't the being born a person laments, it's the whole crap heap each of those people were born into is what they really have a problem with, not that little piece of soul they're actually grieving.
This doesn't mean I'm prolife, I'm just trying to figure her reasoning, because it's literally an elementary concept for a professor of anything if they aren't using some sort of logic path.
Anti-choicers will argue that the fetus isn't part of your body, completely ignoring that while the fetus is nonviable for life and wholly dependent on the parent's body for further development it very much practically is - most cultures and faiths traditionally believed it to be.
Not just ligers but tigons too! It all depends on which parent is the tiger and which the lion. It fascinated me a while back because apparently ligers would end up growing to extremely huge sizes because they don’t get the growth limiting genes that come from a lion mother.
I grew up in Texas and can guarantee you there are a minimum of hundreds (and more likely thousands) of teachers who would say this. Had an English teacher in high school who managed to turn literally every lecture into one about abstinence and/or abortions. She also ended every Friday class by inviting us all to join her at her church on Sunday.
I absolutely believe it. The biology teacher at my HS started class every year with a statement about "this is just what the government says I have to teach you to graduate, but remember that science can never tell you what to REALLY believe". Sir. Why the fuck did you decide to teach this specific subject
Well, might have been someone who got thoroughly brainwashed by religion by his family and who then picked biology because he felt a calling to teach and spread "the truth" (a.k.a. what the Christian sect his parents were members of stuffed into his head when he was a kid).
So then he went to college and, to his frustration, discovered that evolution was not something that science is still "undecided" about.
For whatever reason he stuck with it and he's been frustrated with it ever since. He's probably been waiting all his life for ultra-conservative Christians to take over government and make it possible for him to burn down every biology book in his school to replace it all with bibles and posters of Jesus riding a dinosaur,
Omg, mine was AP Algebra. So we're going through a lesson and suddenly there's scripture on the projector and we're being told gay people are abominations? It was weird and most of us knew and had family members who were LGBT so it didn't hit the way he wanted it to and we all hated him. Lucky for us, he was a moron because we ALL got straight As in AP Algebra... which left me WILDLY out of my element in college algebra.
I had a teacher in (secular) high school in Minnesota who we learned would kick us out of class any time we said "the lord's name in vein," so every day when class started we'd find creative ways to do so. "How was your weekend?" "It was fantastic, I bagged a huge buck." "Jesus, nice work." "Go down to the office!" "God! For that?" "You go to the office too!"
One time I got kicked out and went to talk to the Vice Principal and he was like, "well that's not worthy of being kicked out but I will have to give you detention." Then the Principal brought me in to tell him what happened. "Ok well you won't be getting detention, and he won't be teaching your class once I find a replacement." Next time I saw him he was working in the library...probably moving any religious texts to the Non Fiction section.
Yeah I still believe this likely happened, but it seems obvious the OP of the thathappened post intended this to be about the teacher’s line rather than the class’s reaction.
Tbf, a teenager yelling at their parents “I wish I was never born!” during an argument has been a cliche for (at least) decades (and more likely since the dawn of humanity).
I would’ve thought the same thing, but you’d be surprised what some of my catholic school religion teachers said. one of them taught that frog urine contaminates drinking water, which makes pregnant women’s fetuses gay when they drink it. I’m not kidding. this was in like 2018.
I had a theology classmate make a similar type of claim in one of our classes.
I raised my hand, and told him about my suicide attempt. And when my depression hits I may not want to kill myself, but I usually don't want to live anymore. Citing phrases like "I just wish I wasn't here anymore".
I also grew up with friends of toxic families, and majority of them often say "I would have have never been born, than to be born into this abusive hell hole".
I also mentioned how a lot of the students on campus also feel this way, and that there were probably a few students in the classroom who felt this way too, but it would be rude to try and single them out for the sake of a political argument.
They always dismiss these claims, and act like it's not true.
I don't hate my mom for having me since I was far from planned, but I do hate the described-as-cult-like by outsiders and people-that-have-left-it church she was raised in and didn't leave until after I was born for the fact that as a pregnant 17 year old she was convinced she had to marry my bio dad instead of getting an abortion and not being a parent at 18. I'm convinced if she had been raised without the religious influence I wouldn't exist, and at 26 I still think that would be as glorious as I thought it would've been when I was 10
By that logic, I’ve never met a human being who is a billionaire, so they don’t exist!
Obviously billionaires exist, but I’ve personally never met one of them.
Still don’t think this happened, though. The teacher probably said it, but I doubt it was a rousing round of laughter across the classroom. Giving “and everybody clapped” vibes.
I only have the vaugest of memories of what it was like to not be passively suicidal, I promise I would absolutely be part of the group who was laughing
I don't care if a potential person that doesn't exist would prefer to be born. If I did, I wouldn't solve it by just banning abortion, I would also force everyone to conceive as many children as possible.
The reaction is entirely plausible. The only thing that casts doubt for me is a theology teacher making that argument. They’d be familiar with things like Job 3 and the concept of depression. It’s a stunningly dumb argument for anyone to make, but especially a teacher. There would be other ways a teacher could explain the church’s views on abortion
I almost died at birth. My mom’s placenta tore while in labor……every single day for 30 years I have resented the nurses who saved my life. The mental pain and exhaustion I have from such a shit life. The loneliness and heartache. Medical problems and disorders. It just wasn’t worth it and I would have been better off dead
Theology, evo psych, anthropology, philosophy etc etc all seem to attract people who are very interested in social beliefs but lack common sense about social norms
I feel like the less believable part is the theology teacher saying they've never met someone who wishes they weren't born. Im not saying the post is fake, but everyone else seems to think that the original post cared about the children laughing part.
May I introduce you to me? I was an affair baby that was kept, neglected by both parents (one wasn’t even in my life) and suffered emotional, medical, physical, and mental abuse. On top of that, I’m also a high-functioning autistic who is very aware that I live in a world who is built for everyone around me but myself. The first time I remember being depressed/suicidal was when I was 9 years old. I’m too chicken to kms, but if something happened to me and I ended up dead, I would be eternally grateful.
I remember way back in an ethics class there was a teacher who wanted to create a discussion in class and the ethical problem he described came down to "If you have a car crash and your insurance pays you $10000 but your mechanic tells you they can fix your car for $2000, do you pay the rest of the money back to the insurance company?"
He was genuinely surprised when every single person in class agreed that the correct answer was "Fuck no, why would I pay that back? That money stays in my bank account!"
I mean.... That's what the insurance decided it was worth. If they were only willing to pay for actual repairs, they would have paid straight to the body shop. Hell, you're not even obligated to fix or replace your car with the insurance payout. It's money to compensate you for property damage/loss. If you're fine with your property being damaged, that's your business.
Exactly, I used my insurance payout from my car as a down payment on a house
My dad's old beater car got clipped by a school bus a few years back. The city's insurance gave him 1.8k, but he only spent about 600 to fix the headlight. Got a pretty sweet payout from that :D
600 on a headlight for a shitbox?
600, 500, I don't really remember the details anymore. Of course I could always ask him since I don't think he'd really forget a silly story like that, and if the details are wrong I can edit my post :] but yeah, I don't see why it would be super expensive.
Yeah, when my car was damaged, they paid the repair shop directly and I got nothing except a fixed car.
If they're paying you, it's not for repairs, it's for you and whatever you want to use it for. It's your money now.
Generally, if you have a lien on the vehicle, insurance pays the repair shop directly. If there is no lien, insurance will pay the insured.
You also need to take into account that your goods may have depreciated due to the damages.
Classic example of the adults who are “in charge,” to one degree or another, not knowing shit about the world.
Yeah that money is now earmarked for my soon-to-be-increased premiums
Technically, it IS your money. You paid it to them in premiums for this exact purpose.
The money is not only for the repairs, but also a compensation for lost potential resale value. Hell yeah I am gonna keep it.
If the repairs end up being more than 10k, they sure as shit aren't going to pay you more to cover it. They agreed in advance to a certain amount based on the contract terms binding both parties. And they'll get it back in premiums anyway.
Insurance is gambling where the company already has the massive house advantage.
A train is going down the tracks with no obstructions. However, if you throw a switch, it will run over 5 insurance CEOs. Do you pull the lever?
Can we make this into a reality show?
Can I go first?
Can we get Luigi to host it?
No, he's set from his family. The host is a rotation of who insurance fucked the most.
I'd reckon that depends on how ethically the insurance company operates. Which is to say, for most at least in America, it absolutely isn't inethical to take that money, at least.
Well yeh the ethics teacher is probably trying to get students to consider the underlying issue and the 'insurance money to repair your car' example is semi-arbitrary, ie. it's just supposed to be a generic, relatable example. The teacher just hasn't considered (a) how insurance works and (b) insurance companies are evil.
If the example was, say, you are filling in a request for money from a charity, you accidently write 10,000 where you only need 1,000 but they give you the full 10k, then I'm sure the answers would be more mixed
Where the money is coming from definitely isn't arbitrary when it comes to answering that question.
It seems like it was poorly thought out and either a rather poor or just an incredibly naive professor when it comes to ethics.
Use the Extra money for another charitable thing or further invest in the original charity
To be fair your ethics teacher sounds too stupid to teach in any school.
If you choose to move to another insurance company and you never used your insurance can you ask your soon to be previous insurance company for all the premiums you paid to it without getting anything back? No? Oh well that's unethical.
I'd argue that it isn't actually unethical. You are technically receiving a service by being covered the entire time. It sucks because it doesn't feel like you're getting any value out of it, though.
I work in an insurance company, handling claims and I agree that once we have paid the claim, the customer can do whatever they want with the money. Thats literally how its supposed to work.
I have supplemental insurance policies and they pay based on submitted bills and not on what you paid. That is how insurance should work. You get a policy and you get the payout deemed correct by the wording of the policy.
Also, private companies, esp big ones, are almost categorically evil (as in, sth like a worker cooperative in the same situatiin would basically always be a lot better) so hurting them is zhe ethical thing to do
The difference in ethics here is the insurance company isn’t gonna be hurt by losing that 10k. A person who can’t cover the cost of a crash to repair or replace certainly will.
You’d have been paying for that car insurance, the insurance company already got enough money out of you. Why would you pay them back the money that they are obligated to give you? The money they pay if something goes wrong is the whole point of insurance, and it’s not like the insurance companies are struggling to stay afloat.
Weird the teacher was surprised by that.
Is it perfectly ethical to keep the money? Probably not.
But I'm not going to lose any sleep over a little lapse in ethics while dealing with an insurance company who was created to fuck you six ways to Sunday.
It's perfectly ethical. It's literally your money. Thats why you fucking pay insurance lmao.
I just want to highlight, just not is it ethical, it’s literally how it is supposed to work.
There are two ways the payout can work: 1: they pay for all of the repairs to your car after you get them 2: they cut you a check and you figure it out
What the professor was probably trying to say:
Imagine you got to a repair guy and he says that he will charge the insurance $10k and give you $8k in cash. That’s different
It’s 100% ethical, even if the insurance company is a bunch of saints. They set an amount following their own rules and there is no expectation by either side that the recipient only use the money for repairs. They could decide to not repair the car and buy a bike.
Why would it be ethical to give my money to a company built on literally ripping people off?
Also Heinz's Dilemma. The agenda seems to be to make people believe that corporations killing people is unconditionally ethical?
The idea that someone would feel morally indebted to an insurance company of all things is absolutely hilarious
Why in the everloving fuck would you ever give the money back. Fuck insurance companies lmao.
Fr, that might be able to pay for some of my medical bills (including outside of the crash)
If I don’t get into a car crash, will the insurance company pay me back for all the unnecessary fees I paid them? Yeah, didn’t think so.
Insurance companies are evil. So no, I’m keeping the money.
I had a theology professor that I actually had a good conversation on abortion with. While he of course desired a world without abortion, he surprised me by making the point that if more “pro-life” people supported programs for single mothers, universal childcare, etc, we’d probably see a sharp drop in “elective” abortions (for lack of a better term for abortions that aren’t done as a last resort to save the mother) I was actually really thrown aback by it. He made me realize that you’re not actually “pro-life” if you just hate abortion but also are the same person to claim EBT, WIC, and other social programs are the devil. You’re just anti-abortion and you don’t give a shit about “life” the moment a baby is delivered.
The only pro-life individuals I’ve met that I can take seriously and have a conversation with are the ones that understand that a massive reason behind elective abortion is economic factors. I’ve known so many people that wanted children but simply couldn’t afford it, several of them grew up in extreme poverty and refused to willingly raise a child in a similar situation. It wouldn’t be fair.
I’m pro-choice but I can certainly respect his opinions as he’s pro social programs to support people who are having these children. I will never agree with his opinion on abortion, but at least he acknowledges one of the reasons why some people get them.
I don’t think it’s that he wanted abortion to just straight up be impossible per se, but more like a world without abortion because it’s not necessary due to humanity having its shit together and there not being a need other than medical emergency, wishful thinking I guess but he was definitely one of the most sane and compassionate pro lifer I’ve discussed the topic with.
but his argument still excludes people who accidentally got pregnant but just don’t want to raise a child, like one does not need a moral reason like their financial situation to justify not wanting to give birth to a kid despite still wanting sex, no contraceptive is 100% effective and abortions should be available to these people as well
Sure, but I feel like I can at least have the conversation with people who are very much pro social support about that in good faith.
Dude I don’t know, I’m just giving context within sharing an old story. You’re reading too deep into my role in the conversation lmaoo I’m pro choice as hell, I don’t know why you’re preaching your points to me, it should’ve been clear in my original comment that I wasn’t on his side. Like yeah, no duh abortions should be available to those people. You’re trying to argue points held by someone who isn’t me, what do you expect to gain from that? It’s not like I’m about to relay your rebuttals to a first year professor I haven’t seen in two years lmao. Go to the pro life sub with your comment, you’re wasting it on me, I completely support abortion and I wasn’t justifying his views as I don’t hold them myself. That really shouldn’t need to be reexplained but hopefully this helps.
??? i wasn't accusing u of not being pro choice??? i think ur stance was really obvious??? my point was that, in general, you can't stop abortions through any amount social benefits cuz u don't need a "moral" reason to deserve an abortion. Like it was an argument against the stance in general because ur professor is not the one single person on the earth who holds that point of view
Well he said “sharp drop” so he propably didn’t exlude those
"Pro-life" people also generally oppose sex education unless it's abstinence only. If they had the critical thinking skills to take in new info and change their mind they'd see that comprehensive sex education and free access to birth control significantly reduces unwanted births and abortions, and abstinence only sex ed does absolutely fucking nothing.
Education based on science and facts is the silver bullet, and self-contradictory theology based brainwashing is the enemy in every single case.
I went to a Catholic school, and I had a theology teacher say that "Abstinence is the only 100% effective method."
My response of "I mean, even according to the Catholic church, afterall, Mary was a Virgin wasn't she?" was not appreciated, lmao.
A theology teacher in a Catholic school. That sounds like it's guaranteed to create problems somewhere.
Abstinence-only sex-ed does do something. It isn't nothing. It is far worse than nothing.
My church had a retreat in the snowy mountains you needed chains on the cars to get to. We weren't allowed phones. It was not a place you could just leave.
They started the weekend with "this weekend, we're going to talk about sex." They didn't inform or get consent from any of our parents.
They spent the entire time teaching abstinence only and showed pictures of coffins from kids who died from STDs, and video interviews with the parents talking about the death of their children. They also had gender-divided small groups where one of the kids asked if sex hurt. One of the leaders said it really did, at first. But you'd get used to it.
I am still incredibly fucked up from that event. I was 11. My mom completely reamed out all of the leaders at our church after I told her what happened. When she gets really mad, she is absolutely terrifying, and she refused to meet the speaker (who led the conference) in person because she didn't think she'd be able to keep herself from attacking her. Lol.
Because of that lady, I thought you could get aids like the common cold for like two years. I thought every night I was going to wake up with aids.
It took me until last year to finally learn what all forms of contraception actually do, as well as what Plan B was and how it worked. I am so mad at the church for robbing me of the fact-based, gentle talk I could've gotten from my mom. Like how my younger siblings did.
So no, abstinence-only sex-ed does far more damage than nothing. It robs people of a fact-based experience. And also can cause people to turn away from the community they built in the churches that preach it.
I agree about the harms of abstinence-only sex ed! I have had similar experiences (though I was a little older than 11, that's crazy).
I went to catholic school and they do not teach about sex/puberty in a health class, it's in religion class and it's called "chastity education" 🤢. So anyways I was taught similar lies, such as "no STD's are curable, if you catch one not only will you never find anyone who loves you, you will eventually die from it." "In a box of condoms, at least one will be completely ineffective" (that was the only form of BC that was talked about, and only to instill fear), and lastly they naturally had to focus on women's virginity and how they lose all value as human beings if they don't save it for marriage. They'll never be able to find anyone who loves them, and are basically "damaged goods".
I was SA'd in uni and let me tell you, the religious trauma on top of what happened made it 1000x worse... even though I didn't really actively follow the religion anymore, those thoughts had been so heavily pushed on me throughout my childhood/adolescence that they created some mega lasting issues.
As such I have serious issues with schools not teaching proper sex ed. You absolutely cannot expect parents to teach their kids about sex; beyond their own religious beliefs preventing it, there is no guarantee that parents are actually informed about sex themselves! They may perpetuate myths that they were taught from their own parents, which can further endanger children. Kids are having sex younger and younger; many of my peers started having sex at age 12!! Not to mention all kids are exposed to sexual material to some degree at increasingly younger ages, whether it's through movies, video games, porn, even freaking advertising! They need to be properly educated so they can protect themselves, and make informed choices! And not only to avoid pregnancy... also STI's, understanding what consent looks like, etc. It should be legally mandated to provide this information, and likely around ages 12-13. This is a hill I will die on.
Also, they need to vaccinate boys and girls against HPV, and they need to create a men's option for birth control (I know there is a promising one in clinical trials and I hope it's approved for use soon). Men deserve to have control over their bodies and their ability to reduce chances of unwanted pregnancy. I know some men who have been baby trapped through their partner sabotaging birth control - one in particular occurred because they were in a particularly volatile state and he was planning to break up with her and she found out, so it was her method of staying with him. People are crazy, and everyone deserves to feel like they have autonomy and control of their own lives, including access to (what my doctor refers to as idiot-proof) birth control methods.
what is it with Catholic schools and medieval descriptions of disease? In the second grade I was convinced that at least half our class had leprosy.
considering how many people who call themselves "pro-life" but are more accurately anti-abortion, it always makes me wonder what the overlap/venn diagram between the "pro-life" crowd and people who support capital punishment is. I honestly wouldn't be at all surprised if it was very nearly a circle.
especially when you consider anti-abortion practices and laws have a tangible effect on long term crime rates without the genuine pro-life postpartum practices your professor made an argument for (which I agree with personally, but I'd also include long term social programs that aren't just for children and single mothers as well, since a lot of preventable suicides/the desire to have been aborted(depression), other mental issues, crime, etc are all directly linked to low quality of living caused by poverty and the stress caused by it).
when you look at the long term effect just on crime after abortion was legalized in the USA, abortion care is a necessity in a society that fails to provide a sustainable way of life and social support to its population. without proper structure, it's inevitable that unnecessary harm is done. https://law.stanford.edu/publications/the-impact-of-legalized-abortion-on-crime-over-the-last-two-decades/
edit to add: my stance is kind of ambiguous based on what I said, but I'm personally pro-choice for the stated reasons and more - the point I agreed with regarding pro-life values is that if it ends at birth, they aren't pro-life they're anti-abortion/anti-autonomy. If it's paired with support for social programs, post partum care, support for single parents, etc etc — and I mean actual support including campaigning for those things, working with those programs, becoming a non exploitive/abusive foster/adoptive parent, calling out representatives to do more, etc — I'll concede they are at least consistent with their values and won't question their stance. Just campaigning outside clinics against abortion healthcare? yeah no that's just performative bs.
I believe there were a few different things that have been associated with the drop in crime over time. One is abortion, another is the drop in lead use, and I feel like there were at least one or two others.
I think I realized that sometime after seeing other people mention that these guys are always pro death penalty and refuse to do anything for children in schools.
I have never met anyone who wasn't born who wishes they had been
Body bags are exceedingly comfortable. No occupant has ever complained.
Au contraire
I'd say I recline corrected, but there's no indication of that guy actually complaining about the body bag, just literally spitting in the face of death.
He didn't seem to like the body bag all that much lol
Touche!
Every depressed teenager just felt a powerful urge to be included in this survey
Everyone who’s currently alive?? Unless theyre people in a psych/mental health ward who are prevented from trying to kill themselves. This is so silly lol WAIT LOL SOZ i read this wrong lol
Hi!
“entire class” is probably an exaggeration, but I 100% believe this lmfao
Right? Show me a teenager that hasn’t shouted this at their parents at least once
Especially Gen Z and younger, death is very much a part of their regular humour, too.
Speaking on behalf of GenX, depression, angst, and ennui have been part of our brand since the mid 80s.
Amen.
Ozzy and Lita Ford's song close your eyes forever was pretty dang popular in the 80s.
cats mountainous rinse memorize normal cobweb whistle ask consider simplistic
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
I’m a Zennial, can confirm, nothing has changed lol
True enough! I mostly said Gen Z because I figured OOP was Gen Z lol
It's funny because that's just how it is. I always ment what I said, even if I found it funny.
I miss how I used to genuinely laugh. School was the best and worst part of my life.
I didnt yell it, but said that i wanted to jump out of window (suicide)
I mean, obviously nobody is able to check and confirm every student individually laughed. If that's what the person who posted it to r/happened is hung up on, I'm not even sure what illness they have.
To me, the least believable part is that a teacher would say that and not expect that reaction, but I can't imagine anyone is clever enough to make that up.
They all laughed cause they either are that person, or they know that person.
It’s plausible. I’m Gen Z and I could absolutely imagine my entire class in secondary school laughing at this lmao.
What is it with ThatHappened and kids?
They banned me because I told them they are all living sheltered boring lives if they think some of these very realistic things didnt happen.
Kids do not happen.
I’ve never met anyone who was born who is having a good experience with life. Maybe I need to meet more upper middle class people
Everyone is so tired.
Most people I talk to are sadly very passively suicidal without even realizing it. Those people I talk to that say "I don't want to die but I would be okay with not waking up in the morning" and boy do I feel that.
Even me, I had a failed attempt over 5 years ago, and didn't even think I would make it that long in life. Now I'm in my 30s not knowing how I'm still alive and not knowing kind of what to do at this point. Didn't expect to get this far... And not having that much fun actually but I can't say that or I win a free pair of grippy socks and I don't need anymore!
Passive suicidal ideation is so wide spread, and most people don't even realize it. I'm at a point with my mental health where I'm very firm on the fact, if my depression wants to kill me, it can nut up and figure out how to kill me like a real disease. I'm not doing anyone's dirty work for them.
HAH! That's awesome
i think i was like 16 when i realized being passively suicidal wasn’t “normal”. id been okay with not waking up in the morning since i was at most 4, possibly younger but that’s my first actual memory of wishing i could go to sleep and never wake up.
wait im not even trying to be mean, legitimately what happened such that a 4yo is passively suicidal
sexual abuse mostly
dang im sorry :(
Hi I'm born and having a good experience with life
Working class btw
Congrats I guess ?
He said “I’ve never met anyone who is having a good experience with life” so the guy replied to show he was.
yeah but a reddit comment doesn't count as meeting someone. I bet they just need the misery interrogated out of them
*She
Sounds like you’re just terminally online - most people irl are not suicidal or unstoppably depressed even if not everything is going great in life
This person must have never met anyone from genX!
But seriously I'm guessing that the correct answer is that if you offer a person the option to have been born into substantially different circumstances and they show even the smallest spec of longing for a life that could have been, then it isn't the being born a person laments, it's the whole crap heap each of those people were born into is what they really have a problem with, not that little piece of soul they're actually grieving.
This doesn't mean I'm prolife, I'm just trying to figure her reasoning, because it's literally an elementary concept for a professor of anything if they aren't using some sort of logic path.
everything in my body belongs to me
Works great when shoplifting
“As you can see officer, this 72 inch TV is safely nestled in my colon, therefore by the laws of the third Gastric council, it belongs to me”
if I were the manager of that store, that TV is on me.
*in
This made me laugh more than it should have
I would say you’re allowed to take anything out of your body, whether it “belongs to” you or not.
Someone's guinea pig, my choice.
By virtue of being in me, it’s mine. And I’ll do what I fucking please with it.
"belong" as in anything in my body is part of my flesh. I am the sum of my body parts. my body parts are me
Anti-choicers will argue that the fetus isn't part of your body, completely ignoring that while the fetus is nonviable for life and wholly dependent on the parent's body for further development it very much practically is - most cultures and faiths traditionally believed it to be.
yup, I've been posting 'everything in my body belongs to me' in any post i see about abortion for like 2 years and arguing with people about it
Except for that one thing that just occasionally visits, lol
i own it, but just for 2m 43s
Ok so this guy wanted to steal a horse-
Hope he can fit the whole horse
i started having depression at age 12 lol, i very much already knew about not wanting to have been born as a teenager;;; very believable
I had a biology teacher that called me dumb for saying ligers are a real thing.
my moms english teacher got mad at her for saying connecticut was pronounced “con-net-i-cut”, not “con-nect-i-cut”
Not just ligers but tigons too! It all depends on which parent is the tiger and which the lion. It fascinated me a while back because apparently ligers would end up growing to extremely huge sizes because they don’t get the growth limiting genes that come from a lion mother.
Legit, teenagers will troll the hell outta teachers
I think the post is probably that it feels less likely a teacher would say that
I grew up in Texas and can guarantee you there are a minimum of hundreds (and more likely thousands) of teachers who would say this. Had an English teacher in high school who managed to turn literally every lecture into one about abstinence and/or abortions. She also ended every Friday class by inviting us all to join her at her church on Sunday.
I took a geology class at a community college in Texas.
He believed that the biblical Great Flood created the Grand Canyon.
Let me repeat that in case you missed it-- he was a geology professor.
I absolutely believe it. The biology teacher at my HS started class every year with a statement about "this is just what the government says I have to teach you to graduate, but remember that science can never tell you what to REALLY believe". Sir. Why the fuck did you decide to teach this specific subject
Exact same experience. The cognitive dissonance is wild.
Well, might have been someone who got thoroughly brainwashed by religion by his family and who then picked biology because he felt a calling to teach and spread "the truth" (a.k.a. what the Christian sect his parents were members of stuffed into his head when he was a kid).
So then he went to college and, to his frustration, discovered that evolution was not something that science is still "undecided" about.
For whatever reason he stuck with it and he's been frustrated with it ever since. He's probably been waiting all his life for ultra-conservative Christians to take over government and make it possible for him to burn down every biology book in his school to replace it all with bibles and posters of Jesus riding a dinosaur,
Omg, mine was AP Algebra. So we're going through a lesson and suddenly there's scripture on the projector and we're being told gay people are abominations? It was weird and most of us knew and had family members who were LGBT so it didn't hit the way he wanted it to and we all hated him. Lucky for us, he was a moron because we ALL got straight As in AP Algebra... which left me WILDLY out of my element in college algebra.
I had a teacher in (secular) high school in Minnesota who we learned would kick us out of class any time we said "the lord's name in vein," so every day when class started we'd find creative ways to do so. "How was your weekend?" "It was fantastic, I bagged a huge buck." "Jesus, nice work." "Go down to the office!" "God! For that?" "You go to the office too!"
One time I got kicked out and went to talk to the Vice Principal and he was like, "well that's not worthy of being kicked out but I will have to give you detention." Then the Principal brought me in to tell him what happened. "Ok well you won't be getting detention, and he won't be teaching your class once I find a replacement." Next time I saw him he was working in the library...probably moving any religious texts to the Non Fiction section.
Well that last bit feels borderline inappropriate.
Frankly it is fully inappropriate.
Yeah I still believe this likely happened, but it seems obvious the OP of the thathappened post intended this to be about the teacher’s line rather than the class’s reaction.
Tbf, a teenager yelling at their parents “I wish I was never born!” during an argument has been a cliche for (at least) decades (and more likely since the dawn of humanity).
I would’ve thought the same thing, but you’d be surprised what some of my catholic school religion teachers said. one of them taught that frog urine contaminates drinking water, which makes pregnant women’s fetuses gay when they drink it. I’m not kidding. this was in like 2018.
As a teenager I can confirm, many of us wish we were never born because depression.
"I sometimes wish I'd never been born at all" - Freddy Mercury "Bohemian Rhapsody"
I had a theology classmate make a similar type of claim in one of our classes.
I raised my hand, and told him about my suicide attempt. And when my depression hits I may not want to kill myself, but I usually don't want to live anymore. Citing phrases like "I just wish I wasn't here anymore".
I also grew up with friends of toxic families, and majority of them often say "I would have have never been born, than to be born into this abusive hell hole".
I also mentioned how a lot of the students on campus also feel this way, and that there were probably a few students in the classroom who felt this way too, but it would be rude to try and single them out for the sake of a political argument.
They always dismiss these claims, and act like it's not true.
I'm in my thirties and still hate my parents for giving me this stupid life, body, and mind...
I don't hate my mom for having me since I was far from planned, but I do hate the described-as-cult-like by outsiders and people-that-have-left-it church she was raised in and didn't leave until after I was born for the fact that as a pregnant 17 year old she was convinced she had to marry my bio dad instead of getting an abortion and not being a parent at 18. I'm convinced if she had been raised without the religious influence I wouldn't exist, and at 26 I still think that would be as glorious as I thought it would've been when I was 10
The real question is whether OOOP has ever spoken to a theology teacher before
I'm pretty sure there are several parts of the Bible where people explicitly express that sentiment (the books of Job and Ecclesiastes come to mind).
By that logic, I’ve never met a human being who is a billionaire, so they don’t exist!
Obviously billionaires exist, but I’ve personally never met one of them.
Still don’t think this happened, though. The teacher probably said it, but I doubt it was a rousing round of laughter across the classroom. Giving “and everybody clapped” vibes.
my school had a bomb threat and ⅓ of the school showed up. the excuses given?
wanted to see if it was real
didn't care
didn't know AND didn't care after being told
hoped it was real
wanted a cool tombstone
didn't want to ever pay taxes
like, yeah, very high possibility of this happening.
Can confirm, am 24yo and still feel this way! It doesn’t get any better! :)
We didn't have this exact exchange, but we had a very similar one in our theology class.
Guess theology teacher skipped the book of Job entirely.
Job 3:11 “Why did I not perish at birth, and die as I came from the womb?"
Exactly what I was referring to. He also curses the day he was born, wishing it never existed.
I don't care if I had been born, I wouldn't know.
Unfortunately I knew a few people who had expressed they wish they had never been born and eventually they did commit suicide. 😥
I only have the vaugest of memories of what it was like to not be passively suicidal, I promise I would absolutely be part of the group who was laughing
Theology teachers need to work in the ER. Or with suicide hotlines.
Probably of the most likely things ive ever seen on here that did not only happen it have happened a lot of times
I figured the "That Happened" was about the teacher saying they'd never met a human being that wished they weren't born.
Which also would absolutely happen, they have a pro-life agenda, they aren't thinking about suicidal people, they have a POV to assert.
Way too many people in this thread fetishising suicidal ideation and overestimating its occurrence
"yOu sHoulDn't sUppoRt aBortiOn bEcauSe yOu coUld'vE goTteN aboRted!!"
This is one of the most believable things I’ve ever seen on this sub. Have they ever met anyone ever?
Couldnt it also be a survivorship bias in the very literal sense?
I've also never met a sperm cell who told me it wishes to be born.
this is so fucking cringe my god
Put this to your bag lol
I don't see anyone who isn't here.
🤚🏻
I'm 43 and I'd have been laughing with the whole class
This is a repost
That wast go to insult as a teen when my mom would get mad at me. "Well I didn't ask to be born, you deal with your consequences".
She actually did apologise because I was the extra oopsy baby.
I would have been the first to scream "I DID NOT WISH TO BE BORN"
Not even just teenagers, I’d laugh in his face and I’m 27.
The og post is probably exaggerated a bit too much tho.
I don't care if a potential person that doesn't exist would prefer to be born. If I did, I wouldn't solve it by just banning abortion, I would also force everyone to conceive as many children as possible.
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The reaction is entirely plausible. The only thing that casts doubt for me is a theology teacher making that argument. They’d be familiar with things like Job 3 and the concept of depression. It’s a stunningly dumb argument for anyone to make, but especially a teacher. There would be other ways a teacher could explain the church’s views on abortion
I would have laughed and i'm 25
I recognize this one, it’s originally from tumblr. About a 40% chance it was made up for reblogs, a la classic Tumblr style
It's a very complex arguement, with a lot of different circumstances.
I almost died at birth. My mom’s placenta tore while in labor……every single day for 30 years I have resented the nurses who saved my life. The mental pain and exhaustion I have from such a shit life. The loneliness and heartache. Medical problems and disorders. It just wasn’t worth it and I would have been better off dead
Theology, evo psych, anthropology, philosophy etc etc all seem to attract people who are very interested in social beliefs but lack common sense about social norms
Hilarious!
My philosophy prof at a religious uni 100% would've said something like this. Could very much see Gen Z roasting his ass
I feel like the less believable part is the theology teacher saying they've never met someone who wishes they weren't born. Im not saying the post is fake, but everyone else seems to think that the original post cared about the children laughing part.
Ask anyone with narc parents they definitely at some point wished to have never been born I can almost guarantee that.
No religious studies teacher would say this, that's the giveaway not the laughing 😭
Repost of this post with the exact same title :
https://www.reddit.com/r/nothingeverhappens/s/nGsOGknl7A
i literally wish i could end it all right now
Why would a teenager have a theology professor?
I've never met a human being who chose to be born.
...Bohemian Rhapsody comes to mind
100% some shit me and my class would've done in ethics class
Literally "and everyone claps"
What makes the post unbelievable is the "entire class: bursts into laughter" line. It's giving "and then everyone clapped" energy
None of my friends are happy with their lives, most have contemplated suicide
One friend recently almost jumped off a bridge.
May I introduce you to me? I was an affair baby that was kept, neglected by both parents (one wasn’t even in my life) and suffered emotional, medical, physical, and mental abuse. On top of that, I’m also a high-functioning autistic who is very aware that I live in a world who is built for everyone around me but myself. The first time I remember being depressed/suicidal was when I was 9 years old. I’m too chicken to kms, but if something happened to me and I ended up dead, I would be eternally grateful.
Lmao this definitely happened
There's cases of not wanting to have been born in the bible. What in the world.
LOL, that is probably the richest thing a teacher could ever possibly say 😂