Does unionism exist to improve the lives of its citizens, or does it exist to dominate nationalism? Is it both?
By Sarah Creighton
January 08, 2026 at 6:00am GMT
AS the Ulster Unionists move to another leadership contest, we can officially declare liberal unionism dead.
Rest in peace. It didn’t have a good run, or a half-decent start.
It’s deceased… at least until someone tries again. It doesn’t look like anybody will for a long time.
If Robbie Butler or Jon Burrows take over the UUP, they will move the party in a rightward direction.
Once again, the Ulster Unionists must decide what they stand for. DUP-lite? DUP but less angry? TUV but nicer? The options are endless.
If I sound exasperated, it’s because I am.
There are plenty of liberal and left-wing unionist voters out there. There is space for liberal unionism, but every attempt to move in that direction falls flat on its face.
Some people can put their politics to one side and vote DUP/UUP/TUV, but others can’t. I’m part of the latter group and we are politically homeless.
Expectations for the Ulster Unionists were low. Nobody expected the party of James Craig to turn into Labour (who aren’t left-wing any more).
It’s still disappointing to see a tepid pivot towards the left fail again.
My conclusion: liberal and left-wing unionism simply isn’t possible within the current political landscape. That doesn’t bode well for the future.
The question for the new leader of the UUP, Gavin Robinson and Jim Allister is this: what is the case for the union? What does being a unionist mean?
The Ulster Unionists aren’t the only ones who need to do some soul-searching.
Twitter and TikTok aren’t real life. The unionist electorate is complicated and multi-faceted.
If voters can’t find a home somewhere, they will drift and disengage. Unionists must hope and pray those voters show up in a border poll.
Falling back on familiar ground will only cause further decline. This is why a debate is important.
Does unionism exist to improve the lives of its citizens, or does it exist to dominate nationalism? Is it both? If it exists to dominate and troll nationalists, then count me out.
Unionism still hasn’t adapted to the modern era. Many young people think it’s “cringe”. Unionism is the ideology of their grandparents.
Some unionist leaders have made politics their entire personality. They don’t appear to have hobbies, interests outside politics or opinions on anything other but the union.
People want authenticity and honesty from their politicians. They want normal people. They don’t want bots and talking heads.
The new generation of unionist leaders need to change that.
The biggest problem is the state of the union itself. Public services are collapsing, the economy is sinking and nothing works. Everyone is broke. The vibe is one of neglect and managed decline.
You wouldn’t know the situation was dire from the state of unionism.
These days victories are found in online spats and culture wars. Perhaps, on a subconscious level, unionists know they’re in a weak position.
Some seem gleeful about the “vibe shift” and the growth of right-wing movements. They call it a “common sense revolution” and seem hopeful unionism can capture the “mood” of the country.
Unionists shouldn’t mistake Northern Ireland for England. What works in Britain won’t easily translate here.
Yes, north and south, right-wing movements are gaining ground, but that doesn’t mean people will fall in line behind the union.
Civic nationalism presents a “New Ireland” as a progressive, liberal project. It could be, but the prospect is also appealing to conservatives in Northern Ireland.
The Republic is still a conservative place, no matter what activists say. Mainstream economic plans for a united Ireland look copy and pasted from the Thatcherite playbook.
Growing English nationalism and the prospect of Prime Minister Nigel Farage should worry every unionist.
English nationalists will chew unionism up and spit it back out again. They will abandon us when it’s convenient.
I have no confidence that the current crop of unionists know how to navigate this new world.
Whoever takes over the Ulster Unionists faces an ever-changing landscape. The liberal order is collapsing and the old certainties are dying.
What does unionism stand for in this new age? Adapt or die. Adapt or disappear altogether.
The problem is unionism as a political position is utterly beholden to reactionaries and extremists. Craig brought the British population of Ireland to the brink of war with the Irish population and the British government because they refused to live in an Ireland ruled and lead by an Irish government as elected by the Irish people, as dictated by the lawful British parliament and signed into law by their previous monarch.
It as always been an attempt to preserve colonial privilege (for the gentry and industrialists who actually ran the shoe) and perceived privilege (by the unionist working class) and resist the population that would be called indigenous/native if their skin colour was anything other than milk white
Summed up perfectly but now how do they get out of the pickle theyve got themselves into without making us all more & more penniless?
They've no interest in getting out of any pickles
When the DUP were "kingmakers" in Theresa May's govt they pissed it all away in record time by reflexively rejecting every suggestion point blank. Political unionism is utterly guileless on account of its entire political philosophy being "no surrender or compromise ever"
As such they're unfortunately going to drag everyone down with them on their sinking ship unless they're dragged, kicking and screaming, into reality
Ya and they really can't depend on British governments and the general British public have more negative views on the north. They dont see British flags being waved and assuming they're the better lot of paddies anymore.
The stance of don't give anyone else an inch is simply a reckless political standpoint and always has been. It has gotten steadily less and less effective too.
Yep, theyve been busy not giving an `Inch` while not realising we went metric years ago ..
Well its their choice to go down on the sinking ship ..
Theyve holed the lifeboats shouting "No Surrender" & Were shouting "Cool dude, we`ll, look after your weemin"
There is no way to do it. Alliance are the ones protecting genuine unionist concerns and working with nationalists to pursue common good and to make Northern Ireland work. Without Alliance, it would all fall apart. Alliance is what the Ulster Unionists should be. Ulster Unionists would be best to just merge with Alliance and start trying to co-operate more and spead a little less hate.
Well thats the only way they can prolong the union a little bit longer so they`ll be dead set against it as they dont do pragmatism ..
Unionists know that the Irish Government will not physically fight to defend the Nationalist population, and most Northern Catholics can easily be beaten into submission. So why wouldn't Unionism use force to preserve their position.
Unionists have every intention of using force to thwart a UI hence their 12,500 armed & active Paramilitaries ..
If anyone thinks that nationalism is gonna simply sit & be murdered they must be a bit thick.
Stop whining and return to the Republic
I live 5 miles from the town my family ruled as a clan from the 11th century to the 17th.
Danes or Norway Vikings?
Irish, not every family is 2000 years old like the O’Neills
Vikings founded Dublin and took over Ireland from early on
Yeah they controlled a few costal settlements, not whole kingdoms like Mercia or East Anglia in England. And the Viking age in Ireland ended at Clontarf
My point is the Republican State didn’t even found there own capital so no one care what you’re ancestors done.
What have you done to help the country?
Least brain damaged Loyalist. Wait until you find out London was founded by the Romans.
It was
There was a Dublin long before Vikings. They just put it on the map, mainly for slave trading and as a base to raid Britain from.
No there wasn’t
Same could be said to you. If you're that desperate to be British away over you goto Britain.
I’m in a British country already
Northern where? Tbf you're already known to be a Loyalist troll and like most of your lot you can't even troll well.
How is the truth a troll?
You’re born on Irish soil you’re born Irish and choose to be “British” after, end of story
I was born in Belfast on British soil
So it’s been Irish soil all history then suddenly changed? Did they go over to England and send truck loads of its soil over and remove the Irish soil? You’re Irish pretending to be British end of story
Not to sound like I'm defending Fine Gael, but public spending down here has jumped 54% in 5 years, comparing it to Thatcher is beyond delusional.
I think she is referring to neoliberal policy in relation to housing and data centres most likely.
But I agree, the 26 county Government aren't working out of a austerity playbook anymore.
Would the major unionist parties make drastically different decisions if Belfast was facing the same Tech FDI driven pressures as Dublin? Genuine question, I don't read DUP policy papers.
Oh the DUP are a neoliberal conservative party, they would absolutely benefit corporate monied interests to the detriment of the public good.
I mean as someone who is an internationalist and against corporatism the Irish state and its policies represents everything I despise about the modern economic system.
It’s wealth that isn’t generated in Ireland being taken from areas it is generated in because of a low corporate tax rate that impoverishes a good chunk of Western Europe and is leading half of them to borderline fascism as there living standards fall.
Edit: before someone gets facetious I’m aware that it’s much more complicated than that but it’s literally thesis level complexity not Reddit post.
Do you honestly believe Ireland’s corporate tax rate/take ‘impoverishes a good chunk of Western Europe’? French/German companies pay their corporate tax in France/Germany and nobody complains they are robbing the countries where they make their profits. The US has a unique corporate tax code that Ireland benefits from. The US is happy because it allows their companies to grow exponentially (creates jobs and wealth). This is a matter of political and economic philosophy. You can agree or disagree but I think the innovation from US companies speaks for itself.
A rather misleading statistic there. ‘Public Spending as a Percentage of GDP‘ tells the real story.
What is that story for north and south?
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Northern Ireland's abortion laws were vastly behind those of the rest of the UK and the ROI, and judicial alignment famously had to be enforced from Westminster. I find it pretty absurd to turn around and claim the barrier is the Republic's abortion laws being too strict.
That's a plus for most unionists, though.
This isn't true. The UK doesn't even have unified laws on abortion across the whole UK itself lmao.
The north has nearly the exact same laws as the south including term limits of 12 weeks and up to 24 weeks if there are other issues.
Edit: they deleted their comment so couldn't reply to the 2nd one, sorry for your loss btw if you read this.
For anyone who's interested in the laws around this. The laws really are minimally different.
Here is the wording:
Irish law:
"under section 11, where two medical practitioners are of the opinion formed in good faith that there is present a condition affecting the foetus that is likely to lead to the death of the foetus either before, or within 28 days of, birth;"
NI law:
"a fatal fetal abnormality – "a substantial risk that the death of the fetus is likely before, during or shortly after birth" (with no term limit)."
A counterpoint to that is most of that spending was a consequence of COVID, we saw the same in the UK with the conservatives did we not?
No, we saw the spending, but 99.9% of that was on waste, and corruption, except for the furlough payments, which we all paid heavily for in the following years by being gouged by every tom dicak and harry in business!
Unionism and Loyalism has always had trouble adapting to changing times.
Failure to do so has hurt their own people more than anything else.
If only they'd taken David Irvine and David Trimble more seriously..... aw lads what could have been.
The problem is that the DUP have a monopoly over Unionist politics. The other other 2 parties are the TUV who are twats like the DUP and then there's the UUP who are far too weak to actually acheive anything. As a unionist myself it's frustrating.
As for Loyalists they'll never adapt to change. What they still claim to be fighting I'll never know.
Liberal Unionism was always something that the likes of this author imagined as some sort of selling point to defend the existence of Northern Ireland. It has never withstood contact with reality.
Some of the critical comments about the Republic are interesting to me because I don’t see anyone arguing that it isn’t an unequal neoliberal economy. But guess what, so is Britain. Northern Ireland is an unequal neoliberal economy that is also a basket case AND has a gigantic democratic deficit. At least in theory, you would have more of a sway over the direction of travel in a United Ireland where you could vote for the parties who would actually be in power as opposed to the incompetent regional administrators.
Your last point is a big reason why I would like a United Ireland tbh
The issue was always gonna be that Unionism formed as an ideology of ethno supremacy - Liberal Unionism was always gonna be an incoherent as Liberal Zionism
They left by the side door to Alliance years ago.
Philosophically speaking, almost anyone can find a political home in whichever of the seven large parties best represent their beliefs. It just might mean that the party that represents those beliefs may not have ‘unionist’ in the title.
And that person can always vote to remain in the UK in the event of a border poll.
If that same person is uncomfortable with parties that aim to further the voice of cultural nationalism within the fabric of NI, then they need to have a look at themselves and decide if cultural stasis is more important to them than their belief in what governments should do.
Yep, a Liberal Unionist could comfortably continually vote for the SDLP but against Unification on the day of the dammed.
What we`re gonna do with all the walking dead loyalist Zombies is anybodys guess ..
The sdlp could actually campaign on this and appeal to unionists to vote for them..."don't worry we'll not be looking over your shoulder in the voting booth"
Assuming the SDLP even fields a candidate in that constituency.
When it comes to areas like North Antrim, East Antrim, South Antrim, Lagan Valley, North Down and East Belfast, if the electoral duopoly isn't between the DUP and TUV, it's between the DUP and Alliance. The UUP often find themselves in third place in those areas, and probably are facing electoral doom in the way that if you dislike the DUP's social views, but nationalism is a step outside your comfort zone, then Alliance is at least the "neutral" flavour.
Liberal Unionism died when the UUP forced Terence O’Neill out.
Yep, thats what unfortunately made way for the Paisleyites ..
Left Unionism is an oxymoron, you can't be progressive and also espouse a settler colony mindset which others the people and culture of the native population.
From reading this article, it seems that Sarah is very close to shedding her emotional connection to Unionism, I've met many like her who have done the same, common in our current zeitgeist in the north.
This is it, 100%
Used to know a trade unionist who was pretty left wing on every issue but would tie himself up in knots when it came to discussing how loyalism was incompatible with leftist politics. I had some sympathy for him; nobody wants to be told they're the baddies
But it speaks to how severe and absolute unionism's vilification of taigery has been over the past century that someone like Creighton, who seems genuinely concerned about some human rights and social issues from what I've seen of her over the years, just can't quite bring herself to abandon unionism coz the alternative is living as an Irish person with no connection to britain
I don't even think some of them realise they think like this. Colonialism is a hell of a drug
Maybe it's someone from a Unionist background who isn't opposed to a UI when it democratically comes but wants to focus on making the current State of NI for the time being.
You'd be surprised because a lot of Unionists aren't that hard-core anymore, they just really dislike Sinn Fein.
A redundant position to attack a redundant position.
At what point is someone ascribed the distinction of "native" status by lineage? 100 years? 200 years?
How can anyone have a serious conversation around any type of socialist or left wing politics iin this country when by nature of the GFA, we are assigned a status of unionist or nationalist by default, as soon as we enter the workforce, even if an individual rejects both labels - and are automatically attributed a predetermined assumption of sociopolitical positions and values?
I feel I fall back on this quote on a weekly basis at this point:
"If you remove the English Army tomorrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle., unless you set about the organization of the Socialist Republic, your efforts will be in vain. England will still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs."
Just replace "England" with "International Corporate Interests", and the song remains the same.
It's a grift that we're still fucking falling for.
The fuck you can't. Just because a political voice doesn't exist to for it, doesn't mean you can't be unionist and supportive of other cultures, progressive policies.
I consider myself a reasonable unionist. I am for people doing whatever they want provided it doesn't hurt anyone else. I also like being part of the UK, and having such a strong connection to Ireland. I have no political voice becuase everything gets so fucking tribal here. 2 things can't be true, it has to be 1 or the other.
But given this is NI reddit, I look forward to being told I'm wrong and I can't possibly feel in any way pro union without being a fenian bashing, flag burning and Ireland hating bigot who's drank the coloniamism kool-aid.
If there is such a constituency for "progressive Unionism" then why isn't there a political home for this big section of the electorate?
Didn't say it was big, I said it's my own view.
That's fine
But the vast vast majority of Unionist political organising in the north of Ireland is incredibly reactionary, regressive, antiquated, and colonial.
This is why "left wing Unionism" has never emerged as a serious political force, because it is antithetical to the worldview of most considered Unionists.
Yea, you're spot on.
Which I see as a shame. Anecdotal, but the wide majority of people I interact daily with feel that way, but you've no voice because there's no viable political mandate which aligns.
I can sympathise with liberal/left leaning people who still have an attachment to cultural Unionism. Many feel foreign to the rest of this island whilst also feeling a connection to a Britain which either doesn't know or doesn't care about 'its people' in the six counties.
I can understand how this kind of identity confusion can lead to subsequent ideological confusion.
Appreciate your response mate. I guess there's some comfort in being seen / understood.
I'm understanding of a lot of Nationalist views too. I certainly see the justification. Just my own siuation doesn't align. Where I grew up had zero Irish influence. To call myself Irish just feels fake given I had so little exposure growing up, and even now (alebit increasing) day to day.
If, hypothetically, the UK was a socialist Govt, would voting to stay in the socialist union override the colonialisation of the past?
Britain is an imperialist country. The one time they had a vaguely 'democratic socialist' govt they were burning entire villages in Malaysia coz the people there objected to the rubber plantation money going directly to rich cunts in London instead of paying them enough to feed their families . If britain had a truly socialist govt there would be no need for a vote to remain in the union as britain would relinquish it's colonial possessions that don't, and never did, belong to it
This hypothetical is wild lol
Jesus, you cant even ask a hypothetical anymore, without getting the usual "UK bad" as an answer?
You get a good response and you default to the childish "why always UK bad!!!!!!" position.
Intellectually dishonest.
There was nothing good about that respose, as it was a basically a poor history lesson on what I already know, and not related to the question at all!
But no doubt your tiny brain is unable to comprehend!
You know all the history of the British Empire and its ongoing collaboration with American Imperialism, facilitating the mass murder of civilians in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Palestine in this century. And yet you still see Britain as some kind of virtuous and just state.
Interesting.
LMFAO! Where have I ever said that? Asking a hypothetical question is 1 million miles away from supporting a colonial state!
But you rant away like a lunatic with you pre conceived secterian thoughts, and hallucinations of something I didnt write!
You asked if republicans would abandon their anti-imperialist principles by voting to remain part of an arbitrarily constructed and inherently imperialist polity, in the event britain were to elect a "socialist" govt
It was a nonsense question on the face of it to begin with but I answered it in good faith. You're either too unintelligent or too ideologically blinded to understand the answer. Which is a you problem either way lol x
You might not like "britain bad" (the 'united kingdom' is anything but, just as it was when protestant ascendency politicians in the Irish parliament were bribed into ratifying the act of union) on an emotional level but it's demonstrably and undeniably the case
There is a wealth of historical record and academic research to back my claim up. I'm not just pulling it out of my hole coz of some innate dislike of british people or something lol
Read a book. I can recommend 'Legacy of Violence' by Caroline Elkins
I asked a hypothetical question. I didnt need a shit history lesson on something that I already know, and not related to the question at all
If i wanted to hear yet another misery story on why britian is bad, I would have rephrased the question.
Oh, and yes, I have read bits of that book and nowhere does it mention a hypothetical scenario in which I aksed? Any more books NOT related to my question that you'd recomend? How about Ann and Barry?
How can liberal unionism exist when the whole point of Unionism is to perpetually live with the status quo of 1690
To be fair the "glorious revolution" is a pretty big deal for scholarly liberal types who spin it as a victory for personal religious freedoms and stable government under a monarch kept in check by parliament or some other such bootlicking nonsense
Unionism only cares about "taigs lose battle. Prods are best" rather than any of that other shite tho lol
That’s what I never understood. "Personal religious freedoms” didn’t extend to Catholics, or even Presbyterians
Yeah it's a total myth. Liberals are full of shit lol
Brainwashing on an industrial scale would work if only they could find one or two.
Filed Under: "too difficult ask Jamie."
Have to agree with this. As an admittedly faltering small-u unionist, there is nothing more cringe worthy than political/fanatical unionism.
Unionism itself will be dead within a couple of decades, it’s already going that way especially loyalism, thank god for that
Liberal Unionism is a contradiction in terms
Isn't the Alliance Party "liberal Unionism"?
I'd even throw in that element that yearns for the British Labour Party to run candidates in NI elections, they don't have much of an electoral presence but seem to be big in the public sector trade unions.
Anecdotal but I haven't heard anyone say they want the British Labour Party to run in NI Elections since 2024...
No, they are not although they have attracted a significant portion of "soft middle class unionism". The rest of them just doesn't feel represented at all and doesn't vote.
"Fear Not Liberal Unionism! .. "
"Cometh The Hour Cometh The Dickhead."
Jamie.. take a bow ..
If you're liberal or left-wing (I wouldn't lump the two together), surely the national question should be answered by which option is most likely to promote liberalism or left-wing values? Rather than picking your position on the national question first and then trying to combine that with liberalism or leftism.
As an outsider looking in, it has always seemed blindingly obvious to me that Liberal Unionism is primarily represented by the Alliance Party. It's where both the Ulster Liberal Party and the Faulknerite wing of the UUP wound up. Acknowledging that probably complicates the narrative that a Border Poll is just around the corner, though.
Everybody knows though that it IS just around the corner, this is why Unionism has got its knickers in that big of a twist that its arse its getting cold.
It's just not possible to be ideologically left wing and also claim you belong to an inherently right-wing (alt right in the case of the DUP/TUV) demographic. Unionism has nothing to offer liberal voters, so long as its figureheads deny climate change, call gay people abominations, and try to shove their extremist Christian dogma down the throats of the general public.
But! they do make Great traybakes! ..
I honestly think we need to step away from the party system we have now. Religion should have nothing to do with the people who are supposed to be looking after our civil interests and institutions. It needs to be more ideological than religious.
It kinda does boil done to that though ..
Pro UI
Anti UI
In truth there is no middle ground ..
If Alliance arnt pro UI then they Are Unionist.
It’s not that simple though.
So I’m seen as a nationalist because I’d like a united ireland. But if I could be shown how Northern Ireland could work better more independently from the UK I wouldn’t be against the idea. Kind of a fix it flip it thing.
I’m a pacifist, I don’t understand the desire for violence.
I can see why we had the violence and I get how people say there was no option but it all makes me very sad. So I don’t have a political box to fit into there.
Now where ideology is concerned I’ve a wee bit of something thrown in from a few places but coming from here that’s not recognised. I’m either a nationalist or a republican.
I’m neither.
Well if your happy enough with your life & lifestyle spiralling downwards you neednt do a thing, because the continuing constitutional status quo will give you that in heaps ..
Of course I’m not happy with it hence the fix it or flog it comment. Right now a united Ireland is the only option. I’m not disagreeing with you and no one is doing anything to improve the crap show here. If this place by miracle to improve then it would be worth an argument but right now, nah I’m going United.
"A United Ireland Is The Only Option."
---The Choice Of A New Generation---
I’m not new round here. Been voting since the GFA
They are convinced to secure unionism in this place it must be done by dominance over stability (WRONG) this will be its end
Liberalism and unionism are completely incompatible
They are very much compatible. Unionism can be sold to the voter as the most pragmatic option.
Unionism deserves to die a hard death. Most English don't care about this topic and hate to think of the discussion at their own table, yet Northern Ireland has a group of twats who think England desires to establish a new beachhead to take over.
Budgets keep getting tighter and the common man suffers...when are we all going to realize how precious the opportunity to unite a free Ireland?
The alliance party is the liberal unionist party
Just because shinners are saying that doesn't mean it's correct.
Has she not heard of the Alliance Party?
Make your mind up. Is it Alliance/SF/IRA or is it unionist Alliance.
Alliance are neither. That's why they get the votes.
I think it's the case that a liberal Unionist would find themselves much more likely to vote Alliance than any of the main or fringe Unionist parties here.
A clever Liberal Unionist that wants the north to exist for the foreseeable would probably vote SDLP1 Alliance 2 Green Party 3.
If you were clever, would you be a Liberal Unionist? It's an oxymoron in outcome, even if not in intention.
yep, but it depends on what people think `Liberal` actually means ..
My mind is made up. They’re Unionist and always have been.
The fact that some hardline Loyalists think they’re the provos because they’re capable of rational thought is irrelevant - they’re still Unionists.
Historically they were definitely Unionist, nowdays it's up in the air. To me at least, a unionist is someone who has an ideological commitment to the retention of the union agnostic of economic factors. Someone who supports the union currently on economic grounds, but is open to changing their position even theoretically, isn't a unionist.
Alliance aren't unionist or nationalist, but it has to be acknowledged by any sensible person that their middle-ground-ism functionally benefits unionism: that they seek to improve upon the status quo and make changes within NI, as opposed to seeking to abolish NI, makes them functionally unionist, in so far as that's a thing.
I'd also point out, although it was many years ago now, that Alliance's reaction to their own Anna Lo, for merely saying she'd happily accept a democratic decision for a UI in a border poll, demonstrates that a fundamentally unionist perspective remains common among many Alliance members.
A Unionist is a confused Irishman who`s painted himself into the northeast corner of Ireland.
They are both sides until a decision needs to be made, and then they are unionist.
Nope then theyre finished as the party will split.
Are you sure buddy? Here's an example where Alliance supported Irish language rights and policy alongside nationalist parties.
Jesus, you got ripped there by 15 seconds of Googling, didn't you?
The facts just don't suit your biases.
Edward Carson was able to speak Irish, did that make him a Nationalist? Mainstream Unionism being so absurdly reactionary by default doesn't mean you should assume that things like supporting the Irish Language are incompatible with being Unionist
If you read half the shite in this subreddit, you would believe that, aye.
Supporting Irish language rights doesn't necessarily make you a Nationalist you know?
I agree but the whole exercise is about compromise, not getting everything your own way - which is the current problem with Unionists, who can't seem to live in that reality where they must ceed ground to Nationalists to make things equal and equitable. And likewise, it seems there's a vocal proportion on this subreddit who think everything has to be about a UI/Nationalism.
It's not just this subreddit, it might not be that important to you but the constitutional situation is the defining issue of NI politics and almost any big has to viewed through that prism, always has been and always will be the case. Alliance are perfectly entitled not to take a position, and it has served them well but as long as they don't people will speculate on it.
Yeah you're right, it is a defining issue - any wonder the basics don't work if the majority is so bent out of shape about ownership of these six.
A good indicator of neutrality is being attacked by both sides.
It definitely isn't.
It's entirely possible that one side is completely delusional to the point where any dissent from hard-line opinion is treated as being fully aligned with "the enemy".
Just one?
Well yes, if both sides are delusional then they would actually be in the middle
Yep. Just one.
Alliance are definitely soft unionist, the article is bullshit.
This doesn't mean their voters are. I know multiple people who vote Alliance tactically to keep Unionist parties out.
Issue with Alliance is they explicitly don't have a constitutional position, while this gets them support from all around it also means the voters are not aligned with the party constitutionallly.
This is a stance I like - that the constitutional question isn't an emotional argument foremost. Look at how emotional Brexit was and what we all ended up with.
The topic of a New/United Ireland should be grounded in good planning and facts, and not ideology. For those that put history, emotions, and ideology ahead - that's fine, but you'll never convince me with those arguments.
Ideology aside - like literally forget green and orange. The most pragmatic and sensible option for an island the size of Ireland is unification. Like it presents zero benefit to have two different jurisdictions post brexit. And AP are de facto Unionist until such times they come out and say this.
You've arbitrarily set a goalpost for you to make your mind up - that's fine.
That's not the yardstick to which I'll measure them. I reckon there's more nuance to compromise than simply being for or against something.
Again looking at things in purely pragmatic terms, without green/orange: Project NI is an abject failure. Power-sharing doesn’t work and “making” NI work is impossible. We are in a state of purgatory.
The sooner this country is united, the sooner (what was) NI can become prosperous. That’s a perfectly logical stance to take.
I vote Alliance &/or Green but would classify myself 100% nationalist. I don't particularly care about their position on the union im just sick of the "us & themmuns" politics. I know my position & vote in a border poll (if it makes economic sense) but I don't need it to dominate everyday politics.
Well said and there are quite a few people like this.
Alliance as a party may be nominally "Unionist" but that's just by virtue of being for the status quo. Their voters can't as easily be said to be the same.
By this logic, anyone who is not at least somewhat of a nationalist is a soft unionist. Seems like a false dichotomy?
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Apart from Anna Lo, not to my knowledge.
So many comments by people who don't understand politics. Of course you can be a Liberal unionist, or a rightwing/Conservative nationalist. Politics comes in many flavours, yet some people can't see past their own small sense of local history
This article reads like it was written by an A-Level pupil as homework.
The author says Labour isn't leftwing, after they raised taxes and spending by the highest amount (as a proportion of GDP) since the 70s.
As a centre-left unionist I'm tempted to sympathise, but this article is full of stupid statements.
Unionism's downfall will be simply handing republicans a completely open goal in terms of vision for the future.
It's not so much the conservatism that's the issue with unionism but the overarching lack of positive vision to make something of Northern Ireland.
Unionists have been far too quick to pull down the institutions that support this place over relatively petty issues such as Brexit. Whilst allowing things like the health service to crumble before our eyes.
Why weren't they pulling out of Stormont over the pathetic levels of funding from Westminster year on year?
Republicanism could quite easily cobble together some half-arsed United Ireland campaign and likely win it if a border poll was called tomorrow. It's an open net for them.
They need to consolidate themselves into one party and unite themselves around one vision for the union if they want to stave off SF.
Maybe, but I dont think the South would vote to take us
Sectarian post of the day. Congrats on being a broken record.
A unionist writing about unionism is sectarian?
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Liberal generally means left to those who dont understand politics and have their opinions spoonfed to them by idiot yanks
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But you`ll rally to the flag at the drop of a hat .. & then paint your kerbstones in garish colours ..
One step forward one step back.
Your going nowhere ..
Thats ok too, we`ll take your concerns on in a UI.
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fair enough but your the one alienating lots of unionists who live in council estates & thats how you`ll lose the Union.
The only true reason that they are unionist is because they grew up in a unionist area where nobody wants to be Lundy.
If i thought it would give my children a safe prosperous life i`d change my name to Lundy.
Im saying americans dont understand what liberalism is and if you look to them for guidance then you wont understand either.
Yankbrain : Far left - Liberal (also far left!?) - Centrist - Conservative - Populist - Far Right
Reality is more like : Far Left - Left Populist - Left - Left Liberal - Centrist (also a liberal) - Right Liberal - Conservative - Right Populist - Far Right
Liberals would be painted as communists in Murica the minute they got a foothold.
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Ive no idea about your personal grievances and i dont particularly care.
The existence of liberal Unionists wouldnt be affected by what people on reddit think
You can be a liberal and the descendent of colonists
You have no right to complain about mislabelling, you are playing the same stupid game
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So using the US definition you would conclude that Ted Heath was a liberal and Thatcher was a conservative but UK conservatives would generally argue the opposite.
Its just not very useful, every government in the UK since Thatcher has been liberal.
When people talk of One Nation Conservatism they are defining themselves in opposition to liberals who control the Conservatives.
When people talk about Labour abandoning the working class, they mean they became economic liberals.
When The US fought for independence they did so inspired by the tenets of French Liberalism.
It became an industrial powerhouse using the economic principles of Classic Liberalism
It reached its "Golden Age" with Social Liberalism
It spread its influence across the world using Neoliberalism
It swings, from left to right, to left, to right, but all of it is Liberalism.
Once upon a time in Ireland there were lots of Liberal Protestants & they called themselves The United Irishmen.
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No, your confusing it with Liberation.
Unionists are capable of putting the wrongs of the past right, the fact that they dont is what makes them guilty.