Does Minnesota feel like McCarthy is really beyond hope? I listened to a few Vikings podcasts for the hell of it after the Bears Vikings second game and they were acting like JJ is completely worthless and has no chance of ever being an NFL qb. Is this the consensus in Minnesota? I know there have been struggles but it just seems so quick to make that kind of judgment.
Shough is 26 and even then this whole age thing is irrelevant when you consider darnold wasn't good until 27 and I think most people look at someone like him and think, as long as he doesnt fall off a cliff. Could be a starter for at least 10 more years. Idk whatelse people want, let the boy develop
Many were way too quick to judge (shocker). People were saying performances he has had the past two games weren’t even possible. Of course they are going to roll him out next year.
Do they try to upgrade at backup given his injury history for some insurance? Almost certainly, but he’s going to be the starter
People will bring up the playoff loss but he gave you a shot at the one seed and people quickly learn… Dang being one and out sucks but not even making it sucks more.
Which is obvious in hindsight and in the clear but the coaches and GM should have known where 9 was at.
And its only highlighted by Darnold because he did well for them and now has continued to do so with the Seahawks. Sunken cost fallacy with that draft pick I guess.
But hopefully 9 continues to develop and in KOC they trust.
Things were looking real bad prior to the Commanders game. Then we pulled a win against the Cowboys where I think I read he was top 5 for QB performance against them so it’s not just that their D is bad.
Win or lose, he needs to at least look competent and keep improving the rest of the season. Wouldn’t hurt if he and Jefferson developed some chemistry and if Jefferson actually made a contested catch the back half of the season.
No. Nix looked bad in the first part of his first year, and Caleb hasn’t really looked good until very recently.
Minnesota does not feel like JJ is beyond hope. I wouldn’t put it past them if somebody like Stafford or Burrow became available for KOC to go hunting for a quarterback that could win him a Super Bowl quickly but other than that, I think they’re developing JJ into the long-term starter.
I'm not that in tune to daily Vikings media. I'm pretty checked out right now.
But yes he was seen as hopeless and a lost cause a month ago. People were saying they should trade Justin Jefferson for draft picks and take a top QB in the 2026 draft.
I'm sure some people have mellowed out in the last two games, but McCarthy is generally seen as pretty bad and not mechanically sound.
I think it's mostly about how he didn't do much in college and was taken too early. That plus being injured his rookie year he hasn't gotten the reps so he doesn't look the part. They were really close with darnold, so it's frustrating to give the kid time.
People also just realllyyyyy want to be right about their draft bust predictions which imo is one of the more pathetic hills to die on in sports. Bo Nix will have a bad game and some jackass who said he’d be a bust will be like “told you!” and then just ignore his 52 passing TDs over less than 2 seasons.
People remember their correct picks and completely forget all their misses. There's so much luck inherent to the draft, organizations that spend millions on scouting still miss.
It's hilarious seeing everyone come in and defend giving him a chance when, prior to two weeks ago, even a hint of "he needs more time" was met with downvotes, "handoff merchant", "second worst qb in history", etc. I know it's different people but it's crazy how much the prevailing opinion changes.
Of course we need to keep him and give him a chance to compete to start next season! He has a fourth quarter two score comeback, prime time wins, and has shown the ability to bounce back from adversity. Dude threw an unlucky pick play one and was smiling, then proceeded to have a great game. We need that.
A fun stat from the Cowboys game was that he had a perfect passer rating when throwing to anyone except Justin Jefferson and a passer rating of 0 when throwing to Jefferson.
Jefferson missed most of training camp and “nine“ has been missing games throughout this year. So the two of them haven’t honestly practiced a lot together this year.
He has great chemistry with Addison and Nailor who were both there for all the training camp.
I think it'd be reasonable to bring a vet in on a ~$15 million/1 year contract next year so there's competition/the season isn't lost of he shits the best.
Huh. Vikings got rid of a good QB after last season because of 2 bad games, and now they are going to double-down on a bad QB after 2 good games. It's like poetry.
When he was healthy there was a bit of a sophomore slump with Daniels. That plus I think Kliff was figured out. I remember there was a stat about the Cardinals offense collapsing midseason every year because he just gets figured out.
Which was one of the concerns that teams had about him going into the draft. He could be the best QB in the league, if he can’t play games it doesn’t matter.
I think the Commanders were good but got a little lucky last year, and so have looked even better, and this year with injuries they're bad, but probably have gotten a little unlucky and so have looked worse.
(Ironically, the Bears games in each season both exemplify the luck pretty well, Commanders won last year on an incredibly unlikely play, and this year turned the ball over at the end on an incredibly unlikely play)
Yep. People dismissed me last year when I would say the team isn't very good and there was a lot of luck and favorable scheduling involved. This season doesn't surprise me at all, including his injury. There wasn't much talent on the team last year. Good schemes, luck, tough guys who didn't quit. The outcome was great but no reasonable person would have looked at last year and said "this should be the standard for next year".
I remember saying that the rate they converted in the red zone wasn’t sustainable. That shit was like 80% lol, even the chiefs of the late 2010s weren’t scoring in the RZ at that rate
Oldest team in the league by a good margin. They are about 1.5 years over the Falcons at 30th and the Falcons are about 1.5 years over the Packers in 1st, just to show how large the gap is.
If the bears had BJ last year, there probably wouldn't have been the hail mary. Caleb had to lead basically two game winning drives after the awful playcall and fumble on the first one.
Yeah I’d say the Commanders had a little bit of luck last year. We were 4-2 and looking pretty good until they beat us with a Hail Mary. Then the wheels came off because Eberflus couldn’t take the blame.
Aren’t they the oldest team in the league? Small regressions add up + a year of tape on Daniels. Then you add the injuries and you get a big let down of a season.
Begging you all win enough games to avoid being 3rd place in the NFC North this year, I dont wanna see us playing next year because it seems the loser is cursed to have a terrible season
Because they’re extremely old and had a much tougher schedule than last year. Daniels also looks worse independently which is something we’ve seen from other sophomore-season QBs recently.
I remember seeing a contrarian say they “didn’t like any of these QBs coming out” for 2024. Shoutout to that guy for having the worst take of anyone on the class
6 QBs drafted in the top 15 and none being immediate busts (as in the team is back on the QB carousel after 2 seasons) is genuinely impressive. You can make the argument later on if the injuries end up doing Penix in, but still that stacked by that standard.
I know the word “generational” gets thrown around way too much in draft discussions, but I think it’s an appropriate way to describe the 2024 QB class. Could very well have 4 of them finishing with a 12+ win season in their first two years.
When you think about football generations as only being about 7-10 years long then I think the phrase is actually not so bad. Probably a bit overused for QBs, especially considering a QB generation is probably more like 10-15 years, but hearing about a generational wr one year after hearing about a generational te one year after hearing about a generational de kinda makes sense. You should get about one generational de every 7 years, one wr, etc
Nah I think that's way too long. 7-10 is about the sweet spot for non QB, kinda positional dependent. Think about it. This year we brought rbs like Jeanty, judkins, henderson etc into the league. 8 years ago guys like cmc, kamara, ekeler were being drafted. 7-8 years before that was guys like shady, legarrett Blount etc all being drafted.
To me those are all pretty distinct generations, basically one whole group is retiring right as the other is coming in.
You could say some positions like OL and QB are longer but I think for like all the skill positions that 7-10 is about spot on.
A generation is roughly 15 years for humans, and we live to about 85. So it's common for about 5-6 generations to be alive at the same time.
Football compresses that timeline, of course, so it would be silly to claim that we have five or six generations of players active in the NFL all at the same time. However, I do think it's fair to say that it feels like we DO have between 2 to 3 generations active at the same time.
I realize that I'm talking a lot of liberties and there's much more variance by position and talent than I'm articulating.
So yeah, I think 7 years per NFL generation feels right on the nose for me!
Yea based on vibes 7 feels about right. That's the difference between like Henry and Bijan, or Jalen ramsey and Devon witherspoon. Pretty distinctly different generations while still playing together.
It's about the time it would take for a player to come into the league, play the rookie contract, get a decent extension, and be in the last year of that extension
I think it's way too early to call this class generational. Wins are a team stat at the end of the day, and none of these quarterbacks have more than one impressive season under their belt.
Doesn't mean it couldn't end up like that, but there are more impressive quarterback drafts from this decade already.
He had a good season for a rookie, but not generationally good. Wasn't meant as a dig at any of the QBs of that draft. Just think calling it a generational QB draft less than two years in is jumping the gun.
I mean I’d disagree on that he had the 2nd most passing TDs by a rookie QB ever (3rd most total) and he made the playoffs with a roster paying Russ 53 mil that year to not play. I’m not saying he’s a generational prospect but he contributes to a “generational class” by having had one of the best statistical rookie years by a QB and was overshadowed by arguably the greatest rookie QB season ever.
100% agree with this take. Bo Nix had probably one of the ten best rookie qb seasons ever, and if Jayden daniels hadn’t been in the same class everyone would agree.
Five of those were against the eighth-string Chiefs. I’m not trying to talk Bo down or anything but that stat starts to look cheap when you pop the hood.
It was 4 tds not 5, and if you want to exclude that game that’s fine but without that game he still had 30 total TDs on the year which would tie him for 4th all time by a rookie with Russ. I’m not trying to say it was the single greatest Rookie QB season ever I’m just saying it lends some credibility to the 2024 class being generational that Bo had one of the best rookie QB seasons and still wasn’t even the best rookie QB
Can you show us the list then that you have vetted and would use? Cause as I'm sure you know, the current number one all time on the rookie touchdown list is Justin Herbert. And guess who rookie Justin Herbert scored 4 touchdowns on in week 17 of his rookie season? That's right ... The Kansas city chiefs backups.
So please show me the list of all "valid" rookie QB touchdowns
i think they meant "generational" less to say that the QBs themselves were all generational talents, but more to say that getting what looks to be at least 4 long terms starters, with a possible 6 depending on JJM's development and Penix's health, is a massive influx of QB talent for one single draft. Getting 3-4 starters in a QB class is great. getting 5-6 is stellar.
This is a good point, and well articulated. But we are prisoners both to time and to the endless reactive echo chamber that is Sports commentary. (Also Reddit.) Of course it's too early to call, but ESPN and talk radio would have us believe that this is a conversation worth having and debating.
Same with the Parsons trade. It seems like the steal of the decade right now, even WITH the injury, but in 3 years we all might be shaking our heads at how well Jones played his cards. Regardless, that won't stop the ceaseless speculation.
I mean Bo had the second most TD's of any rookie QB in NFL history, took his team to the playoffs after being touted he's a bust, drafted to high, with Denver being ranked as the 31/32 teams coming into last season, and them carrying the bulkier part of Wilson's dead cap hit. That's a phenomenal season. Then the cap hit drops 20 mil to 30 something and look at what he's doing.
He did have a great supporting cast, that's true. Great may have been too strong of a word, but he definitely looked like a long term franchise QB.
From 2022 to 2024 he had three straight seasons with a passer rating over 100 (105.5, 101.1, 101.4), and 2022 specifically he had the highest passer rating in the entire league.
I was firmly in the "Wait to see what Year 3 Tua can do" camp after they traded for Hill and paired him with Waddle, Mostert and other really good offensive pieces.
Tua was good to possibly even great in 2022 but even in that year there was questions about if he had truly elevated himself to the next level, or was the Dolphins supporting cast just too good (imo, they were among the best, if not the best offensive weapons in the league for 22-23).
I know it might come across as me being a biased divisional hater, but he never really passed the eye test. He was very accurate, but his decision making and arm strength were always suspect and often times his WRs would turn a routine 10-12 yard completion into a 50+ yard TD because they were simply faster than everyone else.
Sports fans love to murder words. Star becomes superstar becomes elite becomes generational. Everybody wants to stretch the definition to make sure their guy gets it, until it gets so watered down that it doesn't fit its purpose anymore.
All AFC playoff teams have a 1st round pick at quarterback along with 5/7 NFC teams, 6/7 in the AFC being drafted by their current team and only 2/5 in the NFC being drafted by their current team. The only non-first rounders currently at the helm of a playoff team are Jalen Hurts and Brock Purdy. 4 of the current playoff QBs were drafted with the 1st overall pick, and excluding Purdy and Hurts the average playoff QB was drafted 7th-8th overall.
Yeah. Most 1st round picks get more chances (and actually get to develop), and few teams actively choose to start non-first rounders and see them succeed. You also have reclamation projects like Baker (#1 overall) and Darnold (#3 overall), and veterans like Stafford (#1 overall) and Rodgers (#25 overall).
Technically correct (which is of course, the best kind of correct), but including a 75 year-old Aaron Rodgers on the Steelers alongside recent draftees playing for the team that took them is kinda hilarious.
True. I forgot about Stafford, but at least he was traded for a serious package, has been on the Rams for five seasons, and doesn’t look like a hermit who lives in an abandoned lighthouse and tells riddles to shipwrecked sailors.
I wasn’t trying to dispute your point, btw. I just thought the mental image it conjured up was funny.
This draft class was really as good as advertised. With how poor some of the draft classes at QB, have been this decade, having talented young QBs might pay dividends for each of these franchises 3 years from now.
i don't know what it means but with how hard it is to find QBs its interesting that recently a lot of starting QBs have shared the same draft class? Like usually when you look at QB draft classes, 1 maybe 2 will pan out, but 2018 has 4(Baker, darnold, allen, lamar), 2020 has 5 (burrow, tua (i know he sucks now but he had like a 2-3 year stretch of good play), herbert, love, hurts), and now 2024 has 4 (Bo, maye, caleb, daniels) and jury's still out on penix/mccarthy.
We agree on the Maye thing. Whether he was better last year isn't worth arguing because he's an MVP candidate now.
Nix has played better both years too.
Daniels wasn't just better last year, he was incredible last year. This year he's been hurt so it's a knock on his durability but an incomplete on his talent.
Bottom line, Caleb has yet to play as well as any of those three despite every opportunity given the support he's had. If Daniels has another injury plagued year next year I'm willing to put Caleb above him even if he has another OK year just because I'm not going to ding a guy for one injury plagued year.
But the biggest test to me is if any of those GMs would trade their guy for Caleb. I'm curious to hear from Washington fans. I still bet they say no. But as much as I love Caleb as a dude I'm taking at least two of those offers.
Daniels has enough games this season that we can say for certain he wasn't playing up to the same level as his rookie standards even before or without the injuries.
The Bears wouldn't trade Williams for any of those guys but *maybe* Maye, so your test works both ways.
And by what standard is he not playing as well as Bo Nix? Statistically they're pretty close.
ANY/A:
Williams 6.52, Nix 6.20
EPA/db: Nix 12th, Williams 13th
Total yards: Nix 3510, Williams 3506
Nix has more TDs but also more turnovers.
I'm fine if Broncos fans prefer Nix, but I don't think you can say either of them is clearly ahead or behind the other.
Daniels has enough games this season that we can say for certain he wasn't playing up to the same level as his rookie standards even before or without the injuries.
He had one game before he got hurt.
And by what standard is he not playing as well as Bo Nix? Statistically they're pretty close.
Your point is "i am going to pretend every QB is better than Caleb Williams by any standard I can make up ad hoc, even if it contradicts the standards I previously established"
Said it in another thread but I would trade for Maye right now if you told me both of them had reached their full ceilings already. But they haven’t, so I’m still betting on Caleb’s being higher. Could well be wrong long term but that’s why it’s a bet.
I want no part of the Daniels “will he die this week” rollercoaster, and Nix has good games but is inconsistent and without the massive ceiling of Caleb.
But he’s not healthy. Being honest with yourself is basing things on reality, not hypotheticals, and the reality is that Jayden Daniels isn’t better than Caleb because Jayden Daniels doesn’t play football.
It was mainly because of the culmination of a ton of Covid years and other eligibility changes that caused that class to have like 3 draft classes worth of talent in it.
Like outside of what you mentioned the QB2 and 3, WR2, OT2, 3 and 4 all would’ve been the top prospects at their respective positions in this years draft as well
It'll be cool if this class ends up being a newcomer version of the "big 3" QBs with Caleb Williams (Patrick Mahomes), Jayden Daniels (Lamar Jackson) and Drake Maye (Josh Allen). Not saying they end up as good as those three, but it would be interesting if they all develop similarly to those three.
It's really curious. Does Nix have stuff to prove? yes absolutely 1000% but I would argue he has less to prove than most of the rest and he covers most all the "You can't coach that" stuff really well (Cool head when the pressure is on, rapid decision making etc.). Maye, Daniel, Williams all look great with things to prove just like Nix. Weird Nix still gets the red headed step child treatment. Anyway I BOlieve.
I think Bo has proven he's a good QB, and a guy you can continue to build around, and may even be a franchise QB. It's too early for any of them to be anointed as one yet but I've come around on Bo. I do agree he doesn't get enough credit (or too much hate) but honestly Caleb suffers a lot from this as well. Too many reactionary takes on the Internet, always a hater somewhere. Ya'll seem to have hit on that pick and with your HC I think you are good to go for the foreseeable future.
I'd say he's the Burrow of that generation since they tried to make it a big 3. But really though a couple years later, Burrow is already lumped in with Mahomes/Lamar/Allen
Sack stats have nothing to do with scrambling ability. Marino has the lowest sack rate ever and couldn’t move.
Nobody is arguing Nix is bad for taking sacks. He’s probably the best of these; but he also has the best O-Line. And none of them have a sack problem right now.
Williams did last year but has shown growth under Johnson with better blocking.
With your logic, Anthony Richardson is better than Bo Nix because he has better "physical traits." Maybe take a break from the meth for a bit, good lord.
They put on the NFL flair so they can either avoid criticism of their own team or so they look more "official" when they just spam the same advanced stats stuff in every comment
And he has his profile private so you can throw all of his other bad takes back in his face. It's literally always the people like him who have the worst takes.
The guy you’re replying to is trying to tell himself that Bo Nix is a similar threat to Patrick Mahomes in a playoff setting. You are the homers in this scenario.
If you're going to put words in my mouth I might as well post the actual comment you're referencing
Bo has outplayed Mahomes in their 2 matchups. Part of that is because Bo has played really well and the other part is our defense slowing down Mahomes. Allen would have to face that same defense
I'm just pointing out the obvious that Bo has outplayed Mahomes and part of that was because of our D slowing down Mahomes.
I literally just told him for someone who has such a high opinion of themselves, their reading comprehension is beyond poor. Idk how much more plain you have to be. Lol
I saw the comment, and he didn't say literally anything of the sort. He said Nix outplayed Mahomes in their two match ups, which was aided by the fact of Mahomes having to play Denver's defense. For someone that has such a high opinion of themselves, you really do have very poor reading comprehension.
They really do not like the Broncos. Feels like every post I see them on they're acting like we don't exist. They had a comment yesterday saying "nobody trusts Bo to string 4 games together to come out of the AFC but they trust Allen". Bo would only have to string 2 games together most likely and It's not Allen that Bills fans should worry about every postseason
Again, it's looking like it's only going to need to be 2 home games to be the team that comes out of the AFC. And like I said Allen isn't the problem. He has strung together 2-3 games in the postseason every year and where has that gotten the Bills? I'll take Bo Nix playing like he has the last 3 weeks with our defense at home over having to rely on a superhuman effort from Allen every game
Bo has outplayed Mahomes in their 2 matchups. Part of that is because Bo has played really well and the other part is our defense slowing down Mahomes. Allen would have to face that same defense
Their argument yesterday if I remember it correctly was that QBs are all that matter in the playoffs and that an elite defense winning with a bad QB is a crapshoot. That argument completely ignores that Bo is not a bad QB and that the recent Chiefs wins weren't all on the shoulders of Mahomes. They actually didn't start to become dominant until they fixed their defense and started focusing on winning games that way instead of getting in a shootout every game.
Well he isn’t close to Maye right now, and Daniels has had a season to forget with injuries but was very good last year.
As I said he’s likely slightly above Williams, but had far more college experience and doesn’t have his traits (arm strength/creating out of structure)
Rams to trade for “Nine”
We have Nine at home.
no no, you see Nine plays for the Rams and JJ McCarthy plays for the Vikings
Most teams probably have a Nine equivalent at home
Stafford is Original 9, O9, drafted in 09
We have the real 9
Somehow the only other QB drafted in 2024 who is expected to start again this season is... Nine.
He's been good the last 2 games.
The Vikings about gaslight themselves into giving him the keys next year
Does Minnesota feel like McCarthy is really beyond hope? I listened to a few Vikings podcasts for the hell of it after the Bears Vikings second game and they were acting like JJ is completely worthless and has no chance of ever being an NFL qb. Is this the consensus in Minnesota? I know there have been struggles but it just seems so quick to make that kind of judgment.
It’s been 8 games and he’s won 4 and flashed good promise. Idk how you can just outright drop him. Maybe bring in some competition just in case
He’s also only 22, isn’t he the youngest QB in the league?
Dart is younger by a few months. Similar through line to their starts
Shough is 26 and even then this whole age thing is irrelevant when you consider darnold wasn't good until 27 and I think most people look at someone like him and think, as long as he doesnt fall off a cliff. Could be a starter for at least 10 more years. Idk whatelse people want, let the boy develop
This might be a semi hot take but Darnold should have stayed in collage for a other year
I think dart looks more poised in the pocket, but that not something JJ can’t overcome. He’s still young, plenty of great qbs had rough starts
Many were way too quick to judge (shocker). People were saying performances he has had the past two games weren’t even possible. Of course they are going to roll him out next year.
Do they try to upgrade at backup given his injury history for some insurance? Almost certainly, but he’s going to be the starter
I think its just highlighted by Darnold.
People will bring up the playoff loss but he gave you a shot at the one seed and people quickly learn… Dang being one and out sucks but not even making it sucks more.
Which is obvious in hindsight and in the clear but the coaches and GM should have known where 9 was at.
And its only highlighted by Darnold because he did well for them and now has continued to do so with the Seahawks. Sunken cost fallacy with that draft pick I guess.
But hopefully 9 continues to develop and in KOC they trust.
Things were looking real bad prior to the Commanders game. Then we pulled a win against the Cowboys where I think I read he was top 5 for QB performance against them so it’s not just that their D is bad.
Win or lose, he needs to at least look competent and keep improving the rest of the season. Wouldn’t hurt if he and Jefferson developed some chemistry and if Jefferson actually made a contested catch the back half of the season.
No. Nix looked bad in the first part of his first year, and Caleb hasn’t really looked good until very recently.
Minnesota does not feel like JJ is beyond hope. I wouldn’t put it past them if somebody like Stafford or Burrow became available for KOC to go hunting for a quarterback that could win him a Super Bowl quickly but other than that, I think they’re developing JJ into the long-term starter.
I'm not that in tune to daily Vikings media. I'm pretty checked out right now.
But yes he was seen as hopeless and a lost cause a month ago. People were saying they should trade Justin Jefferson for draft picks and take a top QB in the 2026 draft.
I'm sure some people have mellowed out in the last two games, but McCarthy is generally seen as pretty bad and not mechanically sound.
I think it's mostly about how he didn't do much in college and was taken too early. That plus being injured his rookie year he hasn't gotten the reps so he doesn't look the part. They were really close with darnold, so it's frustrating to give the kid time.
People also just realllyyyyy want to be right about their draft bust predictions which imo is one of the more pathetic hills to die on in sports. Bo Nix will have a bad game and some jackass who said he’d be a bust will be like “told you!” and then just ignore his 52 passing TDs over less than 2 seasons.
People remember their correct picks and completely forget all their misses. There's so much luck inherent to the draft, organizations that spend millions on scouting still miss.
That’s just an impossible situation. I have full faith in the kid but to give up on his second year where he has been visibly improving is hard
It's hilarious seeing everyone come in and defend giving him a chance when, prior to two weeks ago, even a hint of "he needs more time" was met with downvotes, "handoff merchant", "second worst qb in history", etc. I know it's different people but it's crazy how much the prevailing opinion changes.
Of course we need to keep him and give him a chance to compete to start next season! He has a fourth quarter two score comeback, prime time wins, and has shown the ability to bounce back from adversity. Dude threw an unlucky pick play one and was smiling, then proceeded to have a great game. We need that.
we are bipolar, but JJ is our guy next season.
Rooting for the Vikings to have themselves a nice little end-of-year statement run, just because they still have to play the Lions and Packers.
If the Bears can win this weekend and week 18, then JJ McCarthy can be the only QB to beat them in Chicago this regular season.
The Vikings could still win 9 games this season
Gotta say its weird nine is struggling with a top 3 wr in the nfl.
A fun stat from the Cowboys game was that he had a perfect passer rating when throwing to anyone except Justin Jefferson and a passer rating of 0 when throwing to Jefferson.
Jefferson missed most of training camp and “nine“ has been missing games throughout this year. So the two of them haven’t honestly practiced a lot together this year.
He has great chemistry with Addison and Nailor who were both there for all the training camp.
I think it'd be reasonable to bring a vet in on a ~$15 million/1 year contract next year so there's competition/the season isn't lost of he shits the best.
Huh. Vikings got rid of a good QB after last season because of 2 bad games, and now they are going to double-down on a bad QB after 2 good games. It's like poetry.
Dread it. Run from it. Nine arrives all the same.
Hey now, the real nine was drafted in 09.
I wish the Commies were having a better season so we could have had 4/4.
I have no idea why they’re so bad this year. Sure there were injuries but that’s not everything
When he was healthy there was a bit of a sophomore slump with Daniels. That plus I think Kliff was figured out. I remember there was a stat about the Cardinals offense collapsing midseason every year because he just gets figured out.
I'm not sure that's true.
He had a good game against the Giants then sprained his knee against a legit Packers defense in week 2.
He basically hasn't been healthy all year.
Which was one of the concerns that teams had about him going into the draft. He could be the best QB in the league, if he can’t play games it doesn’t matter.
Joe Burrow has entered the chat
Glad to see this from a non Chicago fan. We've been saying it for forever and had to endure so much ridicule about CW last year.
The arc of history is long and tends toward parity.
I think the Commanders were good but got a little lucky last year, and so have looked even better, and this year with injuries they're bad, but probably have gotten a little unlucky and so have looked worse.
(Ironically, the Bears games in each season both exemplify the luck pretty well, Commanders won last year on an incredibly unlikely play, and this year turned the ball over at the end on an incredibly unlikely play)
Yep. People dismissed me last year when I would say the team isn't very good and there was a lot of luck and favorable scheduling involved. This season doesn't surprise me at all, including his injury. There wasn't much talent on the team last year. Good schemes, luck, tough guys who didn't quit. The outcome was great but no reasonable person would have looked at last year and said "this should be the standard for next year".
Close games and a favorable schedule isn't a guarantee of future success?
*gulp*
And turnovers
gulps again
I remember saying that the rate they converted in the red zone wasn’t sustainable. That shit was like 80% lol, even the chiefs of the late 2010s weren’t scoring in the RZ at that rate
Team is also pretty old too right?
Oldest team in the league by a good margin. They are about 1.5 years over the Falcons at 30th and the Falcons are about 1.5 years over the Packers in 1st, just to show how large the gap is.
They also beat a Lions team in the playoffs that had their 8th string players on D
If the bears had BJ last year, there probably wouldn't have been the hail mary. Caleb had to lead basically two game winning drives after the awful playcall and fumble on the first one.
Yeah I’d say the Commanders had a little bit of luck last year. We were 4-2 and looking pretty good until they beat us with a Hail Mary. Then the wheels came off because Eberflus couldn’t take the blame.
It's divine retribution for that debacle of a Hail Mary defense from the Bears last year.
Da Pope has some pull with the Big Man.
Aren’t they the oldest team in the league? Small regressions add up + a year of tape on Daniels. Then you add the injuries and you get a big let down of a season.
https://www.phillyvoice.com/ranking-nfl-teams-age-after-53-man-cutdowns-2025-edition/ I didn't realize they were that far ahead of Steelers with half the team above 29 years old, damn
You know why they are bad. It's because the Bears won the matchup on a crazy walkoff. So that means you guys were destined for many losses thereafter.
Begging you all win enough games to avoid being 3rd place in the NFC North this year, I dont wanna see us playing next year because it seems the loser is cursed to have a terrible season
I hope they do win, 50/50 chance of a great season? Sign me up
I'll settle for first then.
Because they’re extremely old and had a much tougher schedule than last year. Daniels also looks worse independently which is something we’ve seen from other sophomore-season QBs recently.
After all the shit some of them talked last year I do not.
I remember seeing a contrarian say they “didn’t like any of these QBs coming out” for 2024. Shoutout to that guy for having the worst take of anyone on the class
Maybe it was just Brou, and you didn't wait long enough for him to say "I LOVE THEM!"
Pretty good QB class
6 QBs drafted in the top 15 and none being immediate busts (as in the team is back on the QB carousel after 2 seasons) is genuinely impressive. You can make the argument later on if the injuries end up doing Penix in, but still that stacked by that standard.
No point in getting back on the QB carousel with the quality of the QBs in the next draft class to be fair.
Remember Sean Payton telling everyone he wanted #9. 4D chess
Thank fuck he pulled that stunt 🙏
Glad you’re happy about it, hopefully it works out for both teams
I know the word “generational” gets thrown around way too much in draft discussions, but I think it’s an appropriate way to describe the 2024 QB class. Could very well have 4 of them finishing with a 12+ win season in their first two years.
When you think about football generations as only being about 7-10 years long then I think the phrase is actually not so bad. Probably a bit overused for QBs, especially considering a QB generation is probably more like 10-15 years, but hearing about a generational wr one year after hearing about a generational te one year after hearing about a generational de kinda makes sense. You should get about one generational de every 7 years, one wr, etc
7 is way too short.
12-15 makes more sense
Nah I think that's way too long. 7-10 is about the sweet spot for non QB, kinda positional dependent. Think about it. This year we brought rbs like Jeanty, judkins, henderson etc into the league. 8 years ago guys like cmc, kamara, ekeler were being drafted. 7-8 years before that was guys like shady, legarrett Blount etc all being drafted.
To me those are all pretty distinct generations, basically one whole group is retiring right as the other is coming in.
You could say some positions like OL and QB are longer but I think for like all the skill positions that 7-10 is about spot on.
Totally agreed. I reeeeeally like 7 years.
A generation is roughly 15 years for humans, and we live to about 85. So it's common for about 5-6 generations to be alive at the same time.
Football compresses that timeline, of course, so it would be silly to claim that we have five or six generations of players active in the NFL all at the same time. However, I do think it's fair to say that it feels like we DO have between 2 to 3 generations active at the same time.
I realize that I'm talking a lot of liberties and there's much more variance by position and talent than I'm articulating.
So yeah, I think 7 years per NFL generation feels right on the nose for me!
Yea based on vibes 7 feels about right. That's the difference between like Henry and Bijan, or Jalen ramsey and Devon witherspoon. Pretty distinctly different generations while still playing together.
It's about the time it would take for a player to come into the league, play the rookie contract, get a decent extension, and be in the last year of that extension
I think it's way too early to call this class generational. Wins are a team stat at the end of the day, and none of these quarterbacks have more than one impressive season under their belt.
Doesn't mean it couldn't end up like that, but there are more impressive quarterback drafts from this decade already.
For reference, 2020 had Burrow, Tua, Herbert, Love, and Hurts.
One great, one really good, a couple of guys who are good enough to win with good teams, and one who's ass.
Bo definitely has 2 impressive seasons.
He had a good season for a rookie, but not generationally good. Wasn't meant as a dig at any of the QBs of that draft. Just think calling it a generational QB draft less than two years in is jumping the gun.
I mean I’d disagree on that he had the 2nd most passing TDs by a rookie QB ever (3rd most total) and he made the playoffs with a roster paying Russ 53 mil that year to not play. I’m not saying he’s a generational prospect but he contributes to a “generational class” by having had one of the best statistical rookie years by a QB and was overshadowed by arguably the greatest rookie QB season ever.
100% agree with this take. Bo Nix had probably one of the ten best rookie qb seasons ever, and if Jayden daniels hadn’t been in the same class everyone would agree.
It's also the fact that CJ Stroud and Herbert were so recent.
Top 10 all time seems less crazy when three of the top 5 happened in the last couple years.
Five of those were against the eighth-string Chiefs. I’m not trying to talk Bo down or anything but that stat starts to look cheap when you pop the hood.
It was 4 tds not 5, and if you want to exclude that game that’s fine but without that game he still had 30 total TDs on the year which would tie him for 4th all time by a rookie with Russ. I’m not trying to say it was the single greatest Rookie QB season ever I’m just saying it lends some credibility to the 2024 class being generational that Bo had one of the best rookie QB seasons and still wasn’t even the best rookie QB
He had a very good season. Just think that particular stat doesn’t hold up under a magnifying glass.
Can you show us the list then that you have vetted and would use? Cause as I'm sure you know, the current number one all time on the rookie touchdown list is Justin Herbert. And guess who rookie Justin Herbert scored 4 touchdowns on in week 17 of his rookie season? That's right ... The Kansas city chiefs backups.
So please show me the list of all "valid" rookie QB touchdowns
i think they meant "generational" less to say that the QBs themselves were all generational talents, but more to say that getting what looks to be at least 4 long terms starters, with a possible 6 depending on JJM's development and Penix's health, is a massive influx of QB talent for one single draft. Getting 3-4 starters in a QB class is great. getting 5-6 is stellar.
Hard to have "more than one impressive season" when they have only played one full season so far.
This season is almost over, I think we have a pretty clear picture. Maye is definitely having a very impressive season.
I'm just saying it's way too early to say that was a generational QB draft when we're barely two years in.
Stake,
This is a good point, and well articulated. But we are prisoners both to time and to the endless reactive echo chamber that is Sports commentary. (Also Reddit.) Of course it's too early to call, but ESPN and talk radio would have us believe that this is a conversation worth having and debating.
Same with the Parsons trade. It seems like the steal of the decade right now, even WITH the injury, but in 3 years we all might be shaking our heads at how well Jones played his cards. Regardless, that won't stop the ceaseless speculation.
I mean Bo had the second most TD's of any rookie QB in NFL history, took his team to the playoffs after being touted he's a bust, drafted to high, with Denver being ranked as the 31/32 teams coming into last season, and them carrying the bulkier part of Wilson's dead cap hit. That's a phenomenal season. Then the cap hit drops 20 mil to 30 something and look at what he's doing.
There are 0 quarterback drafts from this decade that were better at this point however
2020 had Burrow, Herbert, Tua, Love, and Hurts.
After two years only Burrow and Herbert were proven and good.
Edit: and if we’re being pedantic burrow hadn’t gone on his SB run yet, and rookie Daniels had better underlying metrics than rookie Herbert
But with several years, 2020 looks like the strongest QB class of this decade.
I'm just saying less than two years is way too early to call this draft generational, things can change so quickly in the NFL.
I’m still not sold that Tua is even a good quarterback.
Tua looked great before the concussions to be fair
That's just not true lol. He was solid, sometimes good to great in short stretches, but never consistently great.
Dolphins surrounded him with a really strong supporting cast that made him look much better than he ever was.
He did have a great supporting cast, that's true. Great may have been too strong of a word, but he definitely looked like a long term franchise QB.
From 2022 to 2024 he had three straight seasons with a passer rating over 100 (105.5, 101.1, 101.4), and 2022 specifically he had the highest passer rating in the entire league.
Yeah that's fair.
I was firmly in the "Wait to see what Year 3 Tua can do" camp after they traded for Hill and paired him with Waddle, Mostert and other really good offensive pieces.
Tua was good to possibly even great in 2022 but even in that year there was questions about if he had truly elevated himself to the next level, or was the Dolphins supporting cast just too good (imo, they were among the best, if not the best offensive weapons in the league for 22-23).
I know it might come across as me being a biased divisional hater, but he never really passed the eye test. He was very accurate, but his decision making and arm strength were always suspect and often times his WRs would turn a routine 10-12 yard completion into a 50+ yard TD because they were simply faster than everyone else.
Sports fans love to murder words. Star becomes superstar becomes elite becomes generational. Everybody wants to stretch the definition to make sure their guy gets it, until it gets so watered down that it doesn't fit its purpose anymore.
"Generational" is probably dead at this point.
I remember when the 2021 draft class was considered "generational" with Burrow, Tua, Herbert, Love, and Hurts
4 very good , borderline great QBs = generational? I dunno I feel like that’s throwing the word around a bit like you said
All AFC playoff teams have a 1st round pick at quarterback along with 5/7 NFC teams, 6/7 in the AFC being drafted by their current team and only 2/5 in the NFC being drafted by their current team. The only non-first rounders currently at the helm of a playoff team are Jalen Hurts and Brock Purdy. 4 of the current playoff QBs were drafted with the 1st overall pick, and excluding Purdy and Hurts the average playoff QB was drafted 7th-8th overall.
That’s seems pretty normal
Yeah. Most 1st round picks get more chances (and actually get to develop), and few teams actively choose to start non-first rounders and see them succeed. You also have reclamation projects like Baker (#1 overall) and Darnold (#3 overall), and veterans like Stafford (#1 overall) and Rodgers (#25 overall).
Yep. Much higher chance of getting your franchise QB in the first round, but still possible in the later rounds. Checks out.
Technically correct (which is of course, the best kind of correct), but including a 75 year-old Aaron Rodgers on the Steelers alongside recent draftees playing for the team that took them is kinda hilarious.
I mean, I'm also counting 50-year old Matthew Stafford. They were 1st round picks.
We going to count 4th overall pick Philip Rivers in this conversation?
I would if the Colts were currently a playoff team.
Be the change you want to see in the world
True. I forgot about Stafford, but at least he was traded for a serious package, has been on the Rams for five seasons, and doesn’t look like a hermit who lives in an abandoned lighthouse and tells riddles to shipwrecked sailors.
I wasn’t trying to dispute your point, btw. I just thought the mental image it conjured up was funny.
It is a hilarious example of the desperation for QBs.
Yay Im happy for you 😪
Matt Stafford: “How do you do, fellow kids?”
This draft class was really as good as advertised. With how poor some of the draft classes at QB, have been this decade, having talented young QBs might pay dividends for each of these franchises 3 years from now.
All this tells me is that coaching and situation matter more than hitting the pick on the “right guy”
i don't know what it means but with how hard it is to find QBs its interesting that recently a lot of starting QBs have shared the same draft class? Like usually when you look at QB draft classes, 1 maybe 2 will pan out, but 2018 has 4(Baker, darnold, allen, lamar), 2020 has 5 (burrow, tua (i know he sucks now but he had like a 2-3 year stretch of good play), herbert, love, hurts), and now 2024 has 4 (Bo, maye, caleb, daniels) and jury's still out on penix/mccarthy.
I'd say Caleb is the 4th best QB in the draft at the moment and thats totally fine by me lmao
I think he’s slightly better than Bo. Jury still out on Daniels since he’s been injured this season
Post that in the Bears sub and they'll light you on fire (even if it's true).
Now you can tell me you'd take Caleb over Daniels because he's injury prone, that's fine, but when healthy we need to be honest with ourselves.
I won't light you on fire but I'll certainly argue with it.
It's a "heads I win, tails you lose" situation.
Maye is better because they were about the same as rookies but Maye is better now.
But Daniels is better because he was better as a rookie, despite Williams being better now.
Gotta pick one or the other.
Nix I don't have a strong opinon on. He's very good, so is Caleb Williams, I think both teams are pretty happy.
We agree on the Maye thing. Whether he was better last year isn't worth arguing because he's an MVP candidate now.
Nix has played better both years too.
Daniels wasn't just better last year, he was incredible last year. This year he's been hurt so it's a knock on his durability but an incomplete on his talent.
Bottom line, Caleb has yet to play as well as any of those three despite every opportunity given the support he's had. If Daniels has another injury plagued year next year I'm willing to put Caleb above him even if he has another OK year just because I'm not going to ding a guy for one injury plagued year.
But the biggest test to me is if any of those GMs would trade their guy for Caleb. I'm curious to hear from Washington fans. I still bet they say no. But as much as I love Caleb as a dude I'm taking at least two of those offers.
Daniels has enough games this season that we can say for certain he wasn't playing up to the same level as his rookie standards even before or without the injuries.
The Bears wouldn't trade Williams for any of those guys but *maybe* Maye, so your test works both ways.
And by what standard is he not playing as well as Bo Nix? Statistically they're pretty close.
ANY/A:
Williams 6.52, Nix 6.20
EPA/db: Nix 12th, Williams 13th
Total yards: Nix 3510, Williams 3506
Nix has more TDs but also more turnovers.
I'm fine if Broncos fans prefer Nix, but I don't think you can say either of them is clearly ahead or behind the other.
He had one game before he got hurt.
Supporting cast, completion percentage, sack percentage, consistency / beating the Packers...
Anyway, done arguing, my point is pretty much made. Disabling replies.
Your point is "i am going to pretend every QB is better than Caleb Williams by any standard I can make up ad hoc, even if it contradicts the standards I previously established"
Said it in another thread but I would trade for Maye right now if you told me both of them had reached their full ceilings already. But they haven’t, so I’m still betting on Caleb’s being higher. Could well be wrong long term but that’s why it’s a bet.
I want no part of the Daniels “will he die this week” rollercoaster, and Nix has good games but is inconsistent and without the massive ceiling of Caleb.
It still way to early to be saying this shit. Like damn give him some time.
Especially since he keeps getting better every 2 games lol. He hasnt shown any kind of regression
I thought his Baltimore/Cincinnatti games were better than the five games that followed them
But he’s not healthy. Being honest with yourself is basing things on reality, not hypotheticals, and the reality is that Jayden Daniels isn’t better than Caleb because Jayden Daniels doesn’t play football.
By that logic Austin Booker is better than Micah
I mean he clearly is.
rare bears fan giving bo his flowers. i think all four can be great
i feel like I haven't seen bo hate from bears fans like at all
especially not after last week lol
fwiw i live in chicago
This will probably be the last elite QB class for a while.
why ?
I mean, there's literally only room for so many good starters in the league.
Just don’t see the talent in these next upcoming drafts so far from college QBs. None have stood out to me
Bo didn’t “stick out” to most people and look at him now.
That is true, we will just have to see in the future drafts.
Not to mention even Maye, your own QB was seen by many as a stretch.
It’s also too early to tell.
That class in general was nuts. Especially for offense
The #1 QB/WR/TE/OT from that class all would be clearly ranked over their 2025 counterpart
Not all draft classes are created equal.. Definitely a lot of luck involved! Sucking at the "right time" can make or break your future
It was mainly because of the culmination of a ton of Covid years and other eligibility changes that caused that class to have like 3 draft classes worth of talent in it.
Like outside of what you mentioned the QB2 and 3, WR2, OT2, 3 and 4 all would’ve been the top prospects at their respective positions in this years draft as well
Yes revisit this after week 18
It'll be cool if this class ends up being a newcomer version of the "big 3" QBs with Caleb Williams (Patrick Mahomes), Jayden Daniels (Lamar Jackson) and Drake Maye (Josh Allen). Not saying they end up as good as those three, but it would be interesting if they all develop similarly to those three.
Lol imagine leaving Nix off of this.
Bo comps to Baker pretty closely. And I think a fully healthy Baker in a Sean Payton offense is a huge threat
Pfft. Let's see Bo Nix in a Progressive Insurance commercial first before we make those comparison.
It's really curious. Does Nix have stuff to prove? yes absolutely 1000% but I would argue he has less to prove than most of the rest and he covers most all the "You can't coach that" stuff really well (Cool head when the pressure is on, rapid decision making etc.). Maye, Daniel, Williams all look great with things to prove just like Nix. Weird Nix still gets the red headed step child treatment. Anyway I BOlieve.
I think Bo has proven he's a good QB, and a guy you can continue to build around, and may even be a franchise QB. It's too early for any of them to be anointed as one yet but I've come around on Bo. I do agree he doesn't get enough credit (or too much hate) but honestly Caleb suffers a lot from this as well. Too many reactionary takes on the Internet, always a hater somewhere. Ya'll seem to have hit on that pick and with your HC I think you are good to go for the foreseeable future.
I'd say he's the Burrow of that generation since they tried to make it a big 3. But really though a couple years later, Burrow is already lumped in with Mahomes/Lamar/Allen
Nix doesn’t have the upside or physical traits of the other 3.
He’s probably slightly better than Williams right now, but you bet on Caleb’s upside.
Is it his "noodle arm"? Or his lack of pocket awareness and being a slow scrambler/runner?
/s if its not clear
The other 3 have far better traits than him. All have stronger arms, all are better scramblers as well.
Nix started 61 games in college. This is him. He might peak as QB10.
Go look at Nixs TD in the playoffs and tell me he has a weaker arm.
Go look at his sack stats compared to others and tell me he is a worse scrambler
How is it that people with the "NFL" flair consistently have bad takes?
Sack stats have nothing to do with scrambling ability. Marino has the lowest sack rate ever and couldn’t move.
Nobody is arguing Nix is bad for taking sacks. He’s probably the best of these; but he also has the best O-Line. And none of them have a sack problem right now.
Williams did last year but has shown growth under Johnson with better blocking.
Well that statement just proved you dont know anything about QB play.
How exactly? Sacks are a QB stat quite often; but none of the players have a particularly bad sack issue. And Nix has elite pass blocking anyway.
With your logic, Anthony Richardson is better than Bo Nix because he has better "physical traits." Maybe take a break from the meth for a bit, good lord.
That’s not his logic at all. Quit hyperbolising.
You still have time to delete this, my dude. Lmfao
He still thinks stafford is the worst MVP since Cam newton
They put on the NFL flair so they can either avoid criticism of their own team or so they look more "official" when they just spam the same advanced stats stuff in every comment
NFL flair should require your pfp to change to Rob Lowe.
And he has his profile private so you can throw all of his other bad takes back in his face. It's literally always the people like him who have the worst takes.
The guy you’re replying to is trying to tell himself that Bo Nix is a similar threat to Patrick Mahomes in a playoff setting. You are the homers in this scenario.
If you're going to put words in my mouth I might as well post the actual comment you're referencing
I'm just pointing out the obvious that Bo has outplayed Mahomes and part of that was because of our D slowing down Mahomes.
I literally just told him for someone who has such a high opinion of themselves, their reading comprehension is beyond poor. Idk how much more plain you have to be. Lol
I saw the comment, and he didn't say literally anything of the sort. He said Nix outplayed Mahomes in their two match ups, which was aided by the fact of Mahomes having to play Denver's defense. For someone that has such a high opinion of themselves, you really do have very poor reading comprehension.
Man up, and put on your teams flair or just stop.
If he does win it, which MVP is Stafford better than since Newton?
Maybe 2023 Lamar but it’s close.
I think Stafford is better than 2016 Ryan ,”IN MY OPINION”
Yeah, I think youd be on your own there.
If Brady didn’t get suspended in 2016 he would’ve won it. His efficiency was off the charts
Ryan doubled Stafford’s EPA/play and recorded the 4th highest ANY/A ever. Averaged almost 2! more yards per attempt…terrible defense as well
They really do not like the Broncos. Feels like every post I see them on they're acting like we don't exist. They had a comment yesterday saying "nobody trusts Bo to string 4 games together to come out of the AFC but they trust Allen". Bo would only have to string 2 games together most likely and It's not Allen that Bills fans should worry about every postseason
Yes i’d trust Josh Allen to string together 4 games more than Bo Nix. That is not controversial.
Again, it's looking like it's only going to need to be 2 home games to be the team that comes out of the AFC. And like I said Allen isn't the problem. He has strung together 2-3 games in the postseason every year and where has that gotten the Bills? I'll take Bo Nix playing like he has the last 3 weeks with our defense at home over having to rely on a superhuman effort from Allen every game
Yeah he lost to Mahomes and Reid.
Bo Nix isn’t Mahomes. Not even close..
Bo has outplayed Mahomes in their 2 matchups. Part of that is because Bo has played really well and the other part is our defense slowing down Mahomes. Allen would have to face that same defense
Yes you’re right Bo is better than Mahomes. What’s the point of speaking to homers again?
No, Josh Allen vs Bo Nix is not the same task as facing Mahomes who’s the greatest playoff QB ever.
But do you trust Josh Allen’s team to come through during those 4 games.
Their argument yesterday if I remember it correctly was that QBs are all that matter in the playoffs and that an elite defense winning with a bad QB is a crapshoot. That argument completely ignores that Bo is not a bad QB and that the recent Chiefs wins weren't all on the shoulders of Mahomes. They actually didn't start to become dominant until they fixed their defense and started focusing on winning games that way instead of getting in a shootout every game.
Well he isn’t close to Maye right now, and Daniels has had a season to forget with injuries but was very good last year.
As I said he’s likely slightly above Williams, but had far more college experience and doesn’t have his traits (arm strength/creating out of structure)
The amount of salt in response to this comment is crazy. Broncos fans are strangely insecure about Bo Nix when he is a GOOD quarterback.
Broncos will be taking over the AFCW son. The chiefs time is over. Praying for Mahomes though
He can be Hurts lol
it’ll be the big 4 with nix included
Burrow is considered part of the other 3's generation anyways, he just came a couple years later. Mahomes in 2017, Lamar and Allen in 2018.
Bruh