"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
Far from it, just providing some difficult truth that I feel he needs to understand, I was lucky enough to have some very knowledgeable people in my life as teen as well as growing up to the music of Upper Hutt Posse, Public Enemy, KRS One and some brilliant social commentary movies from back in the day.
I want him to understand that all people are valuable and even though we have some very real physical differences from some, the equality needed is in caring for each other the same.
Regulatory standards is a good example. ACT tried for decades to pass similar legislation, knowing that if you try enough times at one point conditions will be fucked enough to pass any dogshit law. It turns out that a spineless national leader who would sell his soul to "win" was the key condition.
Seymour locks in his angry racist supporters by making statements like this that he will never give up on equality and will continue advocating wiping his backside with The Treaty no matter what the majority of voters in the country believe. ACT will probably never have a majority of support in the country to implement this policy alone - but they only need to find themselves in a situation where they are kingmaker and can insist on this policy from coalition partners (or else they refuse to let them form a government) and there's a chance they eventually get it through.
You only have to look at the US (where those overseas think-tanks that influence Seymour and ACT policy) to see that they aren't advocating for things that the majority of voters want...they are talking about power grabs and weaponising the system to disenfranchise voters who would oppose them (which happens to be what National is looking at doing right now).
I know my grandfather who is not typically an "equality for all" man has gotten onto "you know this David Seymour is making a lot of sense with his treaty principles stuff, we are all equal"
Act are very much concerned about ensuring the continuation of the system of generational wealth that keeps those currently with power in power.
And they will use "the left just want to take your inheritance from you" as a rallying cry to keep the support of those that are likely to give/gain a pittance of an inheritance to/from their next generation(s) (a pittance when compare to actual class changing levels of inherited wealth).
Especially when the alternative literally would be more prosperous for the next generation(s) as a whole.
Do you ask him - if we are all equal, why will I likely inherit a decent amount of wealth from you and my parents when you all eventually die after a long and reasonably healthy life while a poor person is likely to inherit nothing from their parents/grandparents who will likely die at a younger age from health related issues that you will likely never suffer the full effects of?
When I was a teenager he would argue to me that Maori and Pacific islander people were genetically predisposed to be lazy cheats, but those South Koreans were predisposed to be hard workers. I asked what would happen if a Maori person had a child with a Korean person and he didn't have an answer
I hate the equality angle of one rule for all argument. Ok then, let’s make te reo the first language used from now on and implement collective-based property ownership, descent not just birthplace for citizenship etc
Yeah, it's always implied that it's equality if everyone confirms to their standards. Monocultural bigots with main character syndrome can get stuffed.
(Some funny irony there that the pile of garbage in a man-suit Nick Fuentes who famously proclaimed “your body, my choice” in proclaiming the end of women having agency over their own bodies, recently discussed how he is, and “chooses to remain”, a virgin. Sooo “your body, no one will let me touch theirs”, I guess?)
I hate to break it to you but this is what libertarianism is now. It was always a philosophy that ran cover for the wealthy to do what they wanted to the poor.
Any criticism it makes of state power is better handled by anarchist principles.
Right “libertarians” have always simply been people who want to exchange democratic state power with unaccountable corporation power. Well, except for the ones who turned out to be actual fascists of course.
Look over there, look at those Maori getting special treatment, no don't turn around and look at us while we burn down the country, focus on those people over there. Please waste your energy fighting that and not the things are actually want to do that will hurt you.
Racial/religious/nationality divisions, used by the wealthy and powerful to distract people from harm they are doing to them since ages ago.
I wish we had a modern constitution so we could put the issues that are created by the treaty behind us once and for all and move on as a more united country instead of this us vs them "my people" way of thinking which has become so prevalent in nz over the past couple of decades
You know what... I wouldn't be opposed to removing all references to the Treaty from legislation if we had a supreme law that codified things like that, what we agree are the basic rules for how the country runs, how laws are made and what we consider important and should override what a group of lawmakers tried to do.
A supreme law that is controlled by the people and not the law makers.
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Hate to break it to you bud-- racism is real. All bigotry is not in fact equal. That you treat it so is a way to simplify things and brush aside real threats that will never apply to you personally. It's dismissive, crude and, quite basically, wrong.
And I'm kinda tired of seeing it in every thread about bigotry ever, so I am not looking forward to this election cycle filled with armchair culture warriors who like to pretend we're all in this fight together while specifically emphasizing the fights they are not interested in fighting. "If it's not cost of living, I'm not interested" -- Then shut up and stop bloviating about how much of an ally you're not. The only reason you're here is to tell people affected by the attacks that they're dumb and distracted. What do you get from that? A salve for some other grievance? You're certainly not gaining allies in The Class War(tm) by telling minorities they should eat the shit Seymour shovels in their mouths because they don't matter. Especially when that's the thing they've been hearing all their lives from people like you, and you never give reasons to expect that to change.
That's one way of interpreting it. It's not very generous though. People saying that it's a distraction are trying to appeal to those who buy into racism by saying "your concerned about the wrong things, does any of this bullshit improve your day-to-day life at all? No? Then stop making it one of your primary issues and start being concerned about all the shit this government is doing that does impact you"
The "this is a distraction" message is not for Maori.
Your whole framing denies the existence of racism.
The "this is a distraction" message is not for Maori.
The only people you're talking to when you say it in the places that it is most oft said aren't the racists. You're preaching to a choir. The only message to a choir is "don't care about this".
You're not going to places where racists meet. You're telling other centrists to maintain the fucking status quo, and you're doing it in a place where minorities see you. The audience makes the message.
I'm not denying the existence of racism, I know it's alive and well. I suppose my wording was just clumsy, I'm stealing moments at work.
This is a good place to (well, better than most social media) to bounce ideas and share talking points that people can debate and think about and maybe drop into conversations with annoying extended family and co-workers. Yeah there is some mutual agreement, but have you ever tried to put ideas onto toxic hang outs like, I dunno, facebook in the last few years? Not worth it.
If you think minority issues are illegitimate distractions that deserve none of our time, you're absolutely a centrist on every social issue, and your attempts at fixing anything non-social will fail because you're dealing with humans and not unbiased number sheets. It demonstrates an inability to understand context.
I'm angry because this is mainstream "progressive" thinking and it's a way of letting the bigots get everything they want and then wondering why left-leaning parties are losing voter share. It's like looking at the Labour party of the UK and going "Yeah that's what I want". I'm not angry at you. I'm angry at the ideas you're representing. And their very real consequences for the people those in power wish to crush. You're basically providing a recipe for getting an NZ equivalent of Reform in power in three years by giving racism room to fester and preemptively slicing off any willpower on the left to meaningfully meet the climate of our time.
Most of the policies that have a reasonable chance of helping our situation economically in the long run are policies that are not attractive politically. Much of this is due to misinformation and a lack of economic understanding in the general populace.
We are in the situation we are in because good policies that actually address our problem are hard to get over the line. Not enough people vote for them.
Since Maori interfere in his ability to sell off vast chunks of land to overseas oligarchs.
Literally all it is about.
If Te Tiriti didnt say shit about how the government manages land, Seymour wouldnt give a damn.
As for why he does this with the most racist framing possible - because there are enough people here who will allow him to carve up the country if it means "knocking Maori down a peg".
This is not a defense of ACT or Seymour, but 8.64% for the Party Vote isn't "barely...8%" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023\_New\_Zealand\_general\_election) and that is close to three times the share of the vote for Te Pāti Māori. ACT was also well ahead on the Electorate Votes so this isn't just a consequence of strategic voting. If ACT isn't 'allowed' to speak given the level of support they receive (and I've never voted for them before you assume anything), then TPM is in an even weaker position now and highly likely the same should they ever form a coalition with Labour and the Greens in the future.
Yeah, but who is saying that TPM should get a disproportionate say either? Most Māori don't even vote for them.
Te Tiriti is every Kiwi's concern, not just TPM. Most Kiwis of any political background don't want the racist nonsense that Seymour is selling.
Also, nobody is saying that ACT shouldn't be allowed to speak. We're saying that it is a huge failure of the Coalition Government that ACT has this much overt power to push through very unpopular policies and force unpopular debates despite their small vote share. The Greens and NZF have been in government numerous times and have never caused nearly as much trouble or been allowed to hijack policy.
The comment I was replying to said "He's not fucking relevant and should not have the platform he does." and made the common reference to ACT's 8%. Those were the two points I was responding to, not the entire debate here.
While support for TPM has dropped recently, if there is going to be a Labour-led coalition Government, it's highly likely to require TPM, who will have a list of their own demands that will be disproportionate to their share of the vote.
MMP means that the tail disproportionately wags the dog most of the time. 8% of voters voted for ACT, so their leader is relevant. That's the limit of what I'm saying here.
Agree to disagree with your comment that NZF never had this degree of influence in previous Governments. And the Greens have never been in Government...
I’m tired of the leader of a minority party trying to pretend that because he’s part of a coalition government that everyone has to bow down to whatever the fuck he wants. You got told NO Seymour - very loudly - when you tried to get your Treaty Principles bill passed. He’s only trying to make things fairer for himself and his corporate mates and sideline half of NZ in the process.
I know that they won’t, but Epsom voters need to wake the fuck up.
But National like having Act as the partner that can push through the radical right ideology they don't want to own for themselves. Key did it to an extent and now Luxon is doing it as even more of a Seymour simp.
"Our universal humanity trumps any superficial differences in relation to race or culture", seemingly is the beginning and the end of his "humanity". There are lots of issues he could focus on that affect the average New Zealander if he's really that into "humanity". Further to that end, their isolationist policies in regards to foreign aid intervention ("universal humanity" CANNOT see borders) are inconsistent with this claim.
Anyway, he's shown a pretty low level of "humanity" shown when serving up slop to low decile school kids.
While this muppet (only because he looks like something from Joe 90/thunderbirds) stirs up racism again, watch to see what Parliament passes that doesn't get the same attention. This is a smoke screen, don't be fooled again.
So does ACT still call themselves a libertarian party since David started doing this whole 'we have the right to unilaterally alter ANY contract that exists in NZ' bullshit?
Can we not? It would be alot more beneficial to focus on the stuff that matters like housing, health system, education, the environment, pretty much anything other than a pointless debate about the treaty.
To be fair I wouldn't be voting for act regardless, but still, rather not have tax payers money being spent on time used for a pointless and divisive debate
I guess there could be a silver lining where Act bring this up during election time could mobilized people who usually dont vote who are agasint this.
But do ACT funders buy focus on "stuff that matters" to common Kiwis or do they buy focus on stuff that enables them to profit?
The Tr at of Waitangi is an impediment to the Investor State Disputes Settlement kangaroo courts and could end up seeing us not paying foreign multinationals more that we have paid in Waitangi Tribunal claims.
Firstly, New Zealand does not have the overt racism of the US, he thinks he is playing into boomers racism, as they are the major voting population, however we simply do not have the same level of inherent racism that they do over there.
Secondly, people aren't stupid. They know what this really is, and most people realise that we are not born equal, we are born into many different levels of wealth, we are born with genetic predispositions to various diseases, we do not all get the same opportunities.
For instance, pacific Island populations are genetically predeposed to heart disease and require more medical focus on that area than say David Seymour does. Only an idiot would think equality is better here than equity.
What we need is equity, not racism disguised as "equality". Poor kids need more help than rich kids, sick people need more help than healthy, it's equity that's required. David Seymour just wants to take away extra help for people that need it, because he's an absolute fucking ghoul that wants him and his mates to pocket the difference.
Sadly, I think you might be surprised at how much racism is out there in this country. It's not as loud as it is in the States, definitely, but it's there.
I really hope you're right and theres not enough to keep him in parliament.
I wonder how much of ACT's support base is actually younger people and not just boomers. A lot of our immigrant population have conservative values and latch onto the messages of "You have joined a country where the indigenous people are given special treatment, but with the right vote that will be taken away and you will benefit".
Nothing compared to wealthy white boomers. Their generation is at least twice the size of the millennials. Simply paying their super annuation which most don't need will cripple the economy within 10 years. Our taxes will be at least doubled probably tripled to just pay their benefits, with most taking it despite being wealthy. We are fucked.
Boomers are the problem. And Seymour caters to their worst side.
Weirdly for their boomer base, Act is the only party that has a policy to raise the age of eligibility for super. For me, that's the only policy of theirs I'd support. (Along with improved welfare for people who can't work because of injuries including chronic injuries, because people doing physical jobs will struggle to go past 65.)
It won't matter, it has to be means tested or it's all over for millennials/zoomers trying to fund that.
Most boomers are wealthy and do not need super, however due to their inherent greed they will take it. Remember these are the same people that defrauded the government during a pandemic, they do not care about anyone but themselves.
Boomers are the problem. And Seymour caters to their worst side.
Seymour caters to both the Boomers and the trolls. The boomers believe the rhetoric. The trolls don't. They just like to hurt people and laugh at them and gaslight them.
Thank the lord baby Jesus. Most destructive generation in history and the first to completely flip the wealth funnel to younger generations. They are literally cancer for society.
ACT leader David Seymour is promising to reignite the Treaty principles debate next year, saying he'll never move on from his vision for equality in New Zealand.
Talk about being focused only on a very narrow area of "equality". They'll sell the country to the highest bidder, make it all user-pays, and entrench the socio-economic hierarchy in a way that wealth begets wealth and poverty begets poverty so they can cry "equality!".
He’s being a cunt and trying to stir shit before an election cos it’s all he’s got. If you live in epsom, hold your nose & vote for the National candidate so we can be done with assholes.
Wait, people still give a shit what this tosser thinks? Dude can’t organise a school lunch programme without kids eating molten plastic and ending up in the burns unit. Biggest political failure in NZ history.
Does anyone else have the feeling the main reason besides trying to get certain voters votes, Act is trying to change how the treaty is used in terms of laws and rules , might be due to business interest that have lobbied for the changes?
Good. Hopefully, it's close to elections, and he stops beating around the racist bush and comes straight out the gate with why he's really doing it. It's just the first step in removing everything māori from Aotearoa. We all know it.
Everytime you want to distract people from something fucked up you want to quietly pass just say some shit about the Treaty. Regardless of your opinions on it, we are getting baited and letting them fuel divisiveness
Edit: like clockwork, ministry for the environment is now part of roading lol
The nz public need to be reminded that it is “the crown” who are the other party to te tiriti and have not met their obligations. Not the NZ taxpayer, they should sell the palace and pay everyone around the world back including Māori.
Framing it as the taxpayer vs Māori conveniently sows division.
Can't stand this clown. While I think that a discussion about the place of Te Tiriti in modern-day NZ would be a good thing, there are a couple of things that need to be in place first.
We need to give it a few years until more people have come through our education system and have actually done some learning about Te Tiriti.
We have someone who is not Seymour to lead the discussion.
What gets me is it doesn't really seem like a "debate" when they are going into it with a clear agenda. They dress it up as a debate but there's a clear outcome they're working towards.
A debate where the adjudicator has picked a side before the start.
I've never been what I'd think of as pro-Maori, but I see these efforts by Seymour to not create equality, but to discriminate and marginalise Maori and Maori points of view and that's not my country.
Fuck him, it's election year coming and we can send him back to the street.
*deep breath* Seriously though, he is the worst thing for this country. Divisive, smugly stirring disharmony, ramming his bullshit down our throats when he only got 8% of the freaking vote.
“We can’t improve your life but we can make you think it’s the brown people’s fault” is sadly a depressingly easy sell.
My son is 15 and since he has started learning Maori culture he has started to wonder why these things are happening.
I had a chat with him about it for nearly an hour, it just made him sad.
I used to think that explaining the news to my son was educational:
"Seymour is replacing your school lunch with cheap garbage so he can give the "savings" to our already wealthy landlord."
Now I think that all I'm achieving is ruining his carefree childhood and causing anxiety, and have stopped explaining it.
You're not ruining it, David Seymour is
He's probably too young, he'll be old enough one day, let kids be kids, they need it.
I'm middle aged and I also feel too young to handle this timeline.
You're a good parent
Far from it, just providing some difficult truth that I feel he needs to understand, I was lucky enough to have some very knowledgeable people in my life as teen as well as growing up to the music of Upper Hutt Posse, Public Enemy, KRS One and some brilliant social commentary movies from back in the day.
I want him to understand that all people are valuable and even though we have some very real physical differences from some, the equality needed is in caring for each other the same.
This guy is proof that we’re starting to see the impact of microplastics on the human brain.
He's not stupid. Just evil.
Someone needs to biff a macroplastic phallus at him
Might just be in the running for quote of the year here lmfao
A true tradition of NZ!
This made me snortle my coffee all over my laptop. A+ for you XD
More like Heritage Foundation cash.
Lmao
The New Zealand public keeps telling David we don't want his bill and he keeps going 🥺 can we try it again?
The public said the same about the regulatory standards bill. We know what happened with that.
That and like 5 other things pushed under urgency.
Most recently the foreign investors home buying thing.
Regulatory standards is a good example. ACT tried for decades to pass similar legislation, knowing that if you try enough times at one point conditions will be fucked enough to pass any dogshit law. It turns out that a spineless national leader who would sell his soul to "win" was the key condition.
Seymour locks in his angry racist supporters by making statements like this that he will never give up on equality and will continue advocating wiping his backside with The Treaty no matter what the majority of voters in the country believe. ACT will probably never have a majority of support in the country to implement this policy alone - but they only need to find themselves in a situation where they are kingmaker and can insist on this policy from coalition partners (or else they refuse to let them form a government) and there's a chance they eventually get it through.
You only have to look at the US (where those overseas think-tanks that influence Seymour and ACT policy) to see that they aren't advocating for things that the majority of voters want...they are talking about power grabs and weaponising the system to disenfranchise voters who would oppose them (which happens to be what National is looking at doing right now).
Something about Act, consent, and respecting when people say no.
Oh this is such a disappointingly acute response. if it wasn't so depressing I'd be amused
Unfortunately a lot of kiwis secretly support it
I know my grandfather who is not typically an "equality for all" man has gotten onto "you know this David Seymour is making a lot of sense with his treaty principles stuff, we are all equal"
I found out one of my colleagues a professional supports him as well it all came out while I don't hate him for it it's an eye opener .
Is it mostly to do with ensuring prosperity for themself and their children?
No far from its racism and narrow-mindedness considering this persons kids are adults , as if ACT is concerned about folks prosperity ffs .
Act are very much concerned about ensuring the continuation of the system of generational wealth that keeps those currently with power in power.
And they will use "the left just want to take your inheritance from you" as a rallying cry to keep the support of those that are likely to give/gain a pittance of an inheritance to/from their next generation(s) (a pittance when compare to actual class changing levels of inherited wealth).
Especially when the alternative literally would be more prosperous for the next generation(s) as a whole.
Edited for clarity
At the exclusion of everyone else?
Yes.
Also known as the "fuck you got mine" attitude.
Do you ask him - if we are all equal, why will I likely inherit a decent amount of wealth from you and my parents when you all eventually die after a long and reasonably healthy life while a poor person is likely to inherit nothing from their parents/grandparents who will likely die at a younger age from health related issues that you will likely never suffer the full effects of?
When I was a teenager he would argue to me that Maori and Pacific islander people were genetically predisposed to be lazy cheats, but those South Koreans were predisposed to be hard workers. I asked what would happen if a Maori person had a child with a Korean person and he didn't have an answer
Or if a South Korean family adopted a Pacifica child (or vice-versa)...🤯
Yea the sad thing is theres alot of ppl who say "we are all equal " while sitting on their colonial seat of privilege.
I hate the equality angle of one rule for all argument. Ok then, let’s make te reo the first language used from now on and implement collective-based property ownership, descent not just birthplace for citizenship etc
Yeah, it's always implied that it's equality if everyone confirms to their standards. Monocultural bigots with main character syndrome can get stuffed.
Division is the intent, nought else
This is becoming a very non-consensual situation...
It's an excellent distraction. Expect it to keep coming up year after year
No means no, David.
Libertarians don't ask for consent.
Jago taught Seymour all he knows about consent
“Your country, my choice”
(Some funny irony there that the pile of garbage in a man-suit Nick Fuentes who famously proclaimed “your body, my choice” in proclaiming the end of women having agency over their own bodies, recently discussed how he is, and “chooses to remain”, a virgin. Sooo “your body, no one will let me touch theirs”, I guess?)
Same guy who said wanting sex with women was kinda gay?
Fuentes claims to be a virgin and yet spent a passionate night in the arms of Stephen "Destiny" Bonnell III. Curious.
This guys is not a Libertarian, that's just the label he hides behind! He's just a bought and paid for shill.
So a libertarian.
I hate to break it to you but this is what libertarianism is now. It was always a philosophy that ran cover for the wealthy to do what they wanted to the poor.
Any criticism it makes of state power is better handled by anarchist principles.
Right “libertarians” have always simply been people who want to exchange democratic state power with unaccountable corporation power. Well, except for the ones who turned out to be actual fascists of course.
Look over there, look at those Maori getting special treatment, no don't turn around and look at us while we burn down the country, focus on those people over there. Please waste your energy fighting that and not the things are actually want to do that will hurt you.
Racial/religious/nationality divisions, used by the wealthy and powerful to distract people from harm they are doing to them since ages ago.
I wish we had a modern constitution so we could put the issues that are created by the treaty behind us once and for all and move on as a more united country instead of this us vs them "my people" way of thinking which has become so prevalent in nz over the past couple of decades
You know what... I wouldn't be opposed to removing all references to the Treaty from legislation if we had a supreme law that codified things like that, what we agree are the basic rules for how the country runs, how laws are made and what we consider important and should override what a group of lawmakers tried to do.
A supreme law that is controlled by the people and not the law makers.
Fuck this guy and fuck his handlers.
Nope, that's how you make more of them.
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Yes, I often think of the Roman Empire too.
No thanks. I actually like my sexual appendages. And no household hand tools should be abused like this.
Laser focused on the cost of living crisis!
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Just the same playbook as the USA.
Just distraction from the sorted class pillaging everything.
Exactly. They’ll do everything they can to make sure Maori get treated poorly, then drive a wedge between us.
No war but class war!!
Hate to break it to you bud-- racism is real. All bigotry is not in fact equal. That you treat it so is a way to simplify things and brush aside real threats that will never apply to you personally. It's dismissive, crude and, quite basically, wrong.
And I'm kinda tired of seeing it in every thread about bigotry ever, so I am not looking forward to this election cycle filled with armchair culture warriors who like to pretend we're all in this fight together while specifically emphasizing the fights they are not interested in fighting. "If it's not cost of living, I'm not interested" -- Then shut up and stop bloviating about how much of an ally you're not. The only reason you're here is to tell people affected by the attacks that they're dumb and distracted. What do you get from that? A salve for some other grievance? You're certainly not gaining allies in The Class War(tm) by telling minorities they should eat the shit Seymour shovels in their mouths because they don't matter. Especially when that's the thing they've been hearing all their lives from people like you, and you never give reasons to expect that to change.
That's one way of interpreting it. It's not very generous though. People saying that it's a distraction are trying to appeal to those who buy into racism by saying "your concerned about the wrong things, does any of this bullshit improve your day-to-day life at all? No? Then stop making it one of your primary issues and start being concerned about all the shit this government is doing that does impact you"
The "this is a distraction" message is not for Maori.
"buy into racism"
Your whole framing denies the existence of racism.
The only people you're talking to when you say it in the places that it is most oft said aren't the racists. You're preaching to a choir. The only message to a choir is "don't care about this".
You're not going to places where racists meet. You're telling other centrists to maintain the fucking status quo, and you're doing it in a place where minorities see you. The audience makes the message.
I'm not denying the existence of racism, I know it's alive and well. I suppose my wording was just clumsy, I'm stealing moments at work.
This is a good place to (well, better than most social media) to bounce ideas and share talking points that people can debate and think about and maybe drop into conversations with annoying extended family and co-workers. Yeah there is some mutual agreement, but have you ever tried to put ideas onto toxic hang outs like, I dunno, facebook in the last few years? Not worth it.
I'm not centrist, that's almost an insult.
If you think minority issues are illegitimate distractions that deserve none of our time, you're absolutely a centrist on every social issue, and your attempts at fixing anything non-social will fail because you're dealing with humans and not unbiased number sheets. It demonstrates an inability to understand context.
I'm angry because this is mainstream "progressive" thinking and it's a way of letting the bigots get everything they want and then wondering why left-leaning parties are losing voter share. It's like looking at the Labour party of the UK and going "Yeah that's what I want". I'm not angry at you. I'm angry at the ideas you're representing. And their very real consequences for the people those in power wish to crush. You're basically providing a recipe for getting an NZ equivalent of Reform in power in three years by giving racism room to fester and preemptively slicing off any willpower on the left to meaningfully meet the climate of our time.
David's too thick to be pillaging, he's just the mouthpiece but also is a libertarian so someone has just would him up and let him waffle on.
Just in time for an election. Fantastic idea David! Ensure that loss!
I'd rather focus on how many ACT resources were spent defending\delaying Tim jagos outing.
A good reason not to donate to ACT.
‘Promises’ is the wrong word. ‘Threatens’ is much more accurate.
"Just one more term bro, ill protect you from brown people having rights, just one more term."
Since when is racism a debate?
Since it gets votes sadly, it’s not producing meaningful benefit to anyone’s daily struggles, but it’s a lot easier than addressing underlying.
And engagement die m sua companies too..
Actually improving the country would get votes, too.
Most of the policies that have a reasonable chance of helping our situation economically in the long run are policies that are not attractive politically. Much of this is due to misinformation and a lack of economic understanding in the general populace.
We are in the situation we are in because good policies that actually address our problem are hard to get over the line. Not enough people vote for them.
Since Maori interfere in his ability to sell off vast chunks of land to overseas oligarchs.
Literally all it is about.
If Te Tiriti didnt say shit about how the government manages land, Seymour wouldnt give a damn.
As for why he does this with the most racist framing possible - because there are enough people here who will allow him to carve up the country if it means "knocking Maori down a peg".
Farkin shitcunts all the way down
This is it right here.
Yep, for a lot of cretins, the feeling of superiority is worth more than its weight in gold, material living standards be damned.
This guy is pathetic. Barely gets 8% of the vote. He's not fucking relevant and should not have the platform he does.
This is not a defense of ACT or Seymour, but 8.64% for the Party Vote isn't "barely...8%" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023\_New\_Zealand\_general\_election) and that is close to three times the share of the vote for Te Pāti Māori. ACT was also well ahead on the Electorate Votes so this isn't just a consequence of strategic voting. If ACT isn't 'allowed' to speak given the level of support they receive (and I've never voted for them before you assume anything), then TPM is in an even weaker position now and highly likely the same should they ever form a coalition with Labour and the Greens in the future.
Yeah, but who is saying that TPM should get a disproportionate say either? Most Māori don't even vote for them.
Te Tiriti is every Kiwi's concern, not just TPM. Most Kiwis of any political background don't want the racist nonsense that Seymour is selling.
Also, nobody is saying that ACT shouldn't be allowed to speak. We're saying that it is a huge failure of the Coalition Government that ACT has this much overt power to push through very unpopular policies and force unpopular debates despite their small vote share. The Greens and NZF have been in government numerous times and have never caused nearly as much trouble or been allowed to hijack policy.
The comment I was replying to said "He's not fucking relevant and should not have the platform he does." and made the common reference to ACT's 8%. Those were the two points I was responding to, not the entire debate here.
While support for TPM has dropped recently, if there is going to be a Labour-led coalition Government, it's highly likely to require TPM, who will have a list of their own demands that will be disproportionate to their share of the vote.
MMP means that the tail disproportionately wags the dog most of the time. 8% of voters voted for ACT, so their leader is relevant. That's the limit of what I'm saying here.
Agree to disagree with your comment that NZF never had this degree of influence in previous Governments. And the Greens have never been in Government...
I’m tired of the leader of a minority party trying to pretend that because he’s part of a coalition government that everyone has to bow down to whatever the fuck he wants. You got told NO Seymour - very loudly - when you tried to get your Treaty Principles bill passed. He’s only trying to make things fairer for himself and his corporate mates and sideline half of NZ in the process.
I know that they won’t, but Epsom voters need to wake the fuck up.
But National like having Act as the partner that can push through the radical right ideology they don't want to own for themselves. Key did it to an extent and now Luxon is doing it as even more of a Seymour simp.
The monthly "when will cannabis become legalised?" posters would like a word.
"Our universal humanity trumps any superficial differences in relation to race or culture... nobody can make those simple facts go away"
Power inequity based on wealth and privelege are fine, we just don't want to be challenged by the people we stepped on to get it.
David doesn’t mind coloured people, as long as they’re rich.
Or ready to serve their master.
"Our universal humanity trumps any superficial differences in relation to race or culture", seemingly is the beginning and the end of his "humanity". There are lots of issues he could focus on that affect the average New Zealander if he's really that into "humanity". Further to that end, their isolationist policies in regards to foreign aid intervention ("universal humanity" CANNOT see borders) are inconsistent with this claim.
Anyway, he's shown a pretty low level of "humanity" shown when serving up slop to low decile school kids.
While this muppet (only because he looks like something from Joe 90/thunderbirds) stirs up racism again, watch to see what Parliament passes that doesn't get the same attention. This is a smoke screen, don't be fooled again.
We need to kick this guy out of parliament at the election
So does ACT still call themselves a libertarian party since David started doing this whole 'we have the right to unilaterally alter ANY contract that exists in NZ' bullshit?
Getting a tad cry wolf bro, maybe just take the L and move on to more pressing matters, if you can.
Atlas network getting what they want
Has he tried fucking right off?
Got to keep everyone nice and distracted while he strips away employee rights, regulations and sells off our national assets to his rich mates
It isn't a "distraction." It's all part of the same deal. It's the plan: and along with everything else, it needs to be opposed vigorously.
Fk off David!
Can we not? It would be alot more beneficial to focus on the stuff that matters like housing, health system, education, the environment, pretty much anything other than a pointless debate about the treaty.
To be fair I wouldn't be voting for act regardless, but still, rather not have tax payers money being spent on time used for a pointless and divisive debate
I guess there could be a silver lining where Act bring this up during election time could mobilized people who usually dont vote who are agasint this.
But do ACT funders buy focus on "stuff that matters" to common Kiwis or do they buy focus on stuff that enables them to profit?
The Tr at of Waitangi is an impediment to the Investor State Disputes Settlement kangaroo courts and could end up seeing us not paying foreign multinationals more that we have paid in Waitangi Tribunal claims.
He's being a moron for two reasons.
Firstly, New Zealand does not have the overt racism of the US, he thinks he is playing into boomers racism, as they are the major voting population, however we simply do not have the same level of inherent racism that they do over there.
Secondly, people aren't stupid. They know what this really is, and most people realise that we are not born equal, we are born into many different levels of wealth, we are born with genetic predispositions to various diseases, we do not all get the same opportunities.
For instance, pacific Island populations are genetically predeposed to heart disease and require more medical focus on that area than say David Seymour does. Only an idiot would think equality is better here than equity.
What we need is equity, not racism disguised as "equality". Poor kids need more help than rich kids, sick people need more help than healthy, it's equity that's required. David Seymour just wants to take away extra help for people that need it, because he's an absolute fucking ghoul that wants him and his mates to pocket the difference.
Sadly, I think you might be surprised at how much racism is out there in this country. It's not as loud as it is in the States, definitely, but it's there.
I really hope you're right and theres not enough to keep him in parliament.
I'm not denying that's racism, I specifically stated it's not at the level of the USA that makes these policies law.
When the boomers die out, act is fucked.
I wonder how much of ACT's support base is actually younger people and not just boomers. A lot of our immigrant population have conservative values and latch onto the messages of "You have joined a country where the indigenous people are given special treatment, but with the right vote that will be taken away and you will benefit".
Nothing compared to wealthy white boomers. Their generation is at least twice the size of the millennials. Simply paying their super annuation which most don't need will cripple the economy within 10 years. Our taxes will be at least doubled probably tripled to just pay their benefits, with most taking it despite being wealthy. We are fucked.
Boomers are the problem. And Seymour caters to their worst side.
Weirdly for their boomer base, Act is the only party that has a policy to raise the age of eligibility for super. For me, that's the only policy of theirs I'd support. (Along with improved welfare for people who can't work because of injuries including chronic injuries, because people doing physical jobs will struggle to go past 65.)
It won't matter, it has to be means tested or it's all over for millennials/zoomers trying to fund that.
Most boomers are wealthy and do not need super, however due to their inherent greed they will take it. Remember these are the same people that defrauded the government during a pandemic, they do not care about anyone but themselves.
Seymour caters to both the Boomers and the trolls. The boomers believe the rhetoric. The trolls don't. They just like to hurt people and laugh at them and gaslight them.
heart warming thought: every morning you wake up - there are 50 fewer boomers in NZ.
Thank the lord baby Jesus. Most destructive generation in history and the first to completely flip the wealth funnel to younger generations. They are literally cancer for society.
Oh, my sweet summer child.
Talk about being focused only on a very narrow area of "equality". They'll sell the country to the highest bidder, make it all user-pays, and entrench the socio-economic hierarchy in a way that wealth begets wealth and poverty begets poverty so they can cry "equality!".
Jesus fucking Crunch this guy is the cunting worst shit cunt in the country.
Division keeps people distracted while the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
David Seymour is such a loser
Whatever keeps him away from economic or planning policy, and ideally, fails.
This guy is a troll
He’s being a cunt and trying to stir shit before an election cos it’s all he’s got. If you live in epsom, hold your nose & vote for the National candidate so we can be done with assholes.
THIS
Can’t he reignite himself into orbit?
The obvious answer to this dogshit is "Would you rather be Maori or white?" (or whatever you are).
Everyone would say no, because Maori aren't privileged in any way that makes it worth it
Take your culture wars and fuck off
Can we get him out of a position of power then, please?
Can we not give this cockwomble airtime?
Wait, people still give a shit what this tosser thinks? Dude can’t organise a school lunch programme without kids eating molten plastic and ending up in the burns unit. Biggest political failure in NZ history.
The economy shrunk since his coalition took power, of course he wants the debate to be on te Tiriti.
Look up ‘Engineer’s Fallacy’ and you’ll think of David Seymour.
Wish hed promise to fuck off instead
Ugh, what a spanner.
At what point can we call him a vexatious litigator?
The day I never have to see this pricks face again will be a great day.
You know that you just need to use your two thumbs and that dream can be yours today...
Big mad I said mean things about daddy?
Originally Canadian accented, now feigning as New Zealand's little Shitler!
Does anyone else have the feeling the main reason besides trying to get certain voters votes, Act is trying to change how the treaty is used in terms of laws and rules , might be due to business interest that have lobbied for the changes?
Ew David, no
Good. Hopefully, it's close to elections, and he stops beating around the racist bush and comes straight out the gate with why he's really doing it. It's just the first step in removing everything māori from Aotearoa. We all know it.
This isn't a dog whistle for votes, it's a trombone.
This is your brain on neoliberalism
This guy is one dumb mofo.
"Racist promises to continue racist actions." In other news, the sky is blue.
Most Kiwi's don't want to hear that again.
I'd rather hear about how much donation money the ACT Party spent on protecting known Sex Offender, Tim Jago.
Can't wait
When is this nutter going to realise that most NZers wish he would accept defeat and put all that to bed!
Must be an election soon.
Seymour branded it "treaty principles" its really treaty renegotiation.
By RNZ repeating his phrase, they are selling his narrative, over and over. Like a jingle.
RNZ the treaty is a contract, agreed by two parties. That Seymour wants to redefine it shouldn't be reason enough to billboard his catchphrase.
There is nothing principled in worming your way out of a contract, more so when its our constitution.
Everytime you want to distract people from something fucked up you want to quietly pass just say some shit about the Treaty. Regardless of your opinions on it, we are getting baited and letting them fuel divisiveness
Edit: like clockwork, ministry for the environment is now part of roading lol
The nz public need to be reminded that it is “the crown” who are the other party to te tiriti and have not met their obligations. Not the NZ taxpayer, they should sell the palace and pay everyone around the world back including Māori. Framing it as the taxpayer vs Māori conveniently sows division.
Nz should promise not to vote for this cunt
Epsom will vote for this fucking skinbag again next year
Can't stand this clown. While I think that a discussion about the place of Te Tiriti in modern-day NZ would be a good thing, there are a couple of things that need to be in place first.
We need to give it a few years until more people have come through our education system and have actually done some learning about Te Tiriti.
We have someone who is not Seymour to lead the discussion.
I couldn't agree with you more.
What gets me is it doesn't really seem like a "debate" when they are going into it with a clear agenda. They dress it up as a debate but there's a clear outcome they're working towards.
A debate where the adjudicator has picked a side before the start.
Indeed, there is no debate and no desire to actually understand the document or what it says.
Just what the countries needs
David Seymour promises to keep being a dick.
I've never been what I'd think of as pro-Maori, but I see these efforts by Seymour to not create equality, but to discriminate and marginalise Maori and Maori points of view and that's not my country. Fuck him, it's election year coming and we can send him back to the street.
FUCK OFF SEYMOUR YOU SUPPURATING SACK OF SHIT!
*deep breath* Seriously though, he is the worst thing for this country. Divisive, smugly stirring disharmony, ramming his bullshit down our throats when he only got 8% of the freaking vote.
Election coming up and a culture war worked for em last time.
I think we might need to start taking some cues from the French.