Still got that stigma to deal with. Undoubtedly a lot are fearful of living near one after that disaster many years ago.
A better off site generator would have helped prevent the disaster but no one had the foresight to see a tsunami flooding and drowning the generator after the plant was shut down while it was still hot
no one had the foresight to see a tsunami flooding and drowning the generator
Other nuclear plants along the coast had a similar amount of flooding but some had invested in changes that better protected the plant or were built to a higher safety standard in the first place. Onagawa Nuclear Power Plant had built a higher seawall and extended cooling intake pipes further into the ocean to make sure they could still draw water when the sea retracted during the initial stage of a Tsunami. They were closer to the earthquake and had a higher Tsunami height but the plant shut down safely unlike Fukushima Daiichi and experienced minimal flooding.
As an example of how different the plants could be despite being only 12 km apart Onagawa had a 14.8 meter high seawall and Fukushima Daiichi's was only 5.7 meters tall. Some people did foresee how bad a Tsunami could be, the problem is this assessment was not done everywhere and the regulatory agency, the Atomic Energy Commission, didn't step in to ensure consistency.
The sea wall at Onagawa was actually built higher than it was supposed to be. The manager that insisted on that height was fired for wasting money building it that high.
Because Yanosuke Hirai's wikipedia page has him working from 1968 as a Member of the Coast Facility Planning Committee, Tohoku Electric Power Company until he retired at the age of 73 in 1975 and then became an advisor. It doesn't say anything about him being fired. edit: typo
I thought I heard it on a program about the safety of other plants in the area. I may have misheard, I was wrangling a toddler at the same time (and Japanese isn't my native language, so the narrator may have been referencing another person).
A better off site generator would have helped prevent the disaster but no one had the foresight to see a tsunami flooding and drowning the generator after the plant was shut down while it was still hot
They had plenty of foresight. They built that power plant along the cost with centuries' old markers warning of massive tsunami waves, and inspections showed a need for improving anti-tsunami measures years before the 3/11 earthquake. TEPCO just sat on its ass and did nothing.
Many of the factors for the incident were actually covered by their version of the AEC. But the developers skipped corners for this reactor and didn't follow all the laws they needed to.
Chernobyl reactor had a design flaw, it had positive coefficient. When things got how, it'd continue to get hotter and result in runaway reaction Running the reactor in very low power caused this since the reactors can't run at very low power.
Yeah the Fukushima plant was actually designed quite well for its time it was just that it was never intended to run without any sort of backup power to run the cooling system yet despite of that it did not release massive quantities of radiation like Chernobyl did.
The backup generators were stored in the basement and they were flooded by the Tsunami and had they been stored much higher they would have been able to keep cooling the plant down without it melting down.
More newer designs allow for passive cooling so that even without any backup power it can shut down and avert a meltdown
I think he meant skipping the required safety tests in order to get the reactor up and running as soon as possible, so they'd meet quotas, only to then rush the last required safety test before the end of the year, resulting in the chain of events.
That’s not exactly what happened at Chernobyl. The operator’s conducting the test were trained and genuinely thought that the emergency shut down would stop the reaction, they were never made aware of the design flaw that essentially turns the emergency shutdown into a detonator. The fault lies mostly with the soviet atomic authorities for not disclosing the flaw and training its staff properly with that knowledge.
I have to wonder how many people even know about the design flaw. They covered it in the mini-series, but how many engineers designing the plant had known and said something? It sounds like the flaw was only in this specific circumstance that only occurred because of the botched safety test, so would many engineers have considered this possibility? The USSR absolutely tried to squash knowledge of it after the fact, but I wonder if it would have been considered a reasonable concern in the first place.
I might have to look into it again, but from the mini series it sounds like the tips of the rods were supposed to use a certain material but it was replaced with graphite or something and that was not disclosed to anyone. The team doing the test was running everything by the manual but because the tips were the wrong material when they were reinserted it caused a run away and exploded.
I believe graphite was the typical material used in those reactors, but the safety test caused the meltdown due to atypical power cycling. IIRC, it only exploded due to bureaucrats pushing to finish the test instead of doing things properly. It should never have exploded otherwise.
Just look at how long Three Mile Island got named-dropped in the US whenever people opposed nuclear power - and that was a contained meltdown that caused minimal harm/damage.
Yep, people got scared for a long time after that, and Three Mile Island was just a little fart compared to explosive diarrhea that Chernobyl experienced.
Funnily enough Fukushima was contained incredibly well, to the point that the the extended evacuation likely has done more harm than having not done so. Unlike Chernobyl, rain is essentially washing contaminants into the sea which if there’s anywhere it should go, the ocean is the least bad by a huge margin. Letting stuff wash away isn’t exactly an option in Chernobyl as it’s just far to in land and rivers don’t contain or shift material fast enough to clean quickly.
but no one had the foresight to see a tsunami flooding and drowning the generator
No one, not even the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission warning of it in 1991 and Japan's own agency referenced this in a 2004 report that they were at risk for and not prepared for losing power. Or TEPCO's own 2000 in-house report warning of the risk of flooding. Or not following up on government earthquake research findings that showed higher waves than they planned for. They of course knew of it, with in-house study citing the 15.7m tsunami estimations (they were prepared for 15m.
The public had an irrational fear of nuclear so it's taken forever to restart these plants but the rising cost of fossil fuels has forced the local governments to restart some of them.
You mean the Greens didn't push through closing all the nuclear reactors for no real reason, requiring a shift to coal and oil to provide power? I'm sure we're all glad to hear that./s
There hasn't been any shift to coal. The green proposed the exit of coal for decades. Nuclear energy was about 20% of german electric power production and is already completely replaced by renewable energy while coal is going down. There are loads of reasons to end nuclear energy. The exit of nuclear energy was decided by the CDU, by the way.The greens never had that executive power.
Good to see them finally moving forward with this. Japan's in such a tough spot with limited natural resources and they've been so dependent on importing fossil fuels since Fukushima. Nuclear isn't perfect but sitting on functional reactors while burning through imported oil and gas doesn't make sense long term, especially with climate goals. 15 years is a long time to get the safety measures up to standard but hopefully that means they actually did it right this time.
My exact thoughts. I had enlisted into the Marine corps that year and got orders to Japan around August, a few months after the incident. Seeing 15 years written out like that is unnerving lol.
So it's not like they sat on idle hands and just now started returning to nuclear
That said, 15 years must've taken its toll on the entire infrastructure.
Still got that stigma to deal with. Undoubtedly a lot are fearful of living near one after that disaster many years ago.
A better off site generator would have helped prevent the disaster but no one had the foresight to see a tsunami flooding and drowning the generator after the plant was shut down while it was still hot
Other nuclear plants along the coast had a similar amount of flooding but some had invested in changes that better protected the plant or were built to a higher safety standard in the first place. Onagawa Nuclear Power Plant had built a higher seawall and extended cooling intake pipes further into the ocean to make sure they could still draw water when the sea retracted during the initial stage of a Tsunami. They were closer to the earthquake and had a higher Tsunami height but the plant shut down safely unlike Fukushima Daiichi and experienced minimal flooding.
As an example of how different the plants could be despite being only 12 km apart Onagawa had a 14.8 meter high seawall and Fukushima Daiichi's was only 5.7 meters tall. Some people did foresee how bad a Tsunami could be, the problem is this assessment was not done everywhere and the regulatory agency, the Atomic Energy Commission, didn't step in to ensure consistency.
The sea wall at Onagawa was actually built higher than it was supposed to be. The manager that insisted on that height was fired for wasting money building it that high.
Source on him getting fired?
Because Yanosuke Hirai's wikipedia page has him working from 1968 as a Member of the Coast Facility Planning Committee, Tohoku Electric Power Company until he retired at the age of 73 in 1975 and then became an advisor. It doesn't say anything about him being fired. edit: typo
I thought I heard it on a program about the safety of other plants in the area. I may have misheard, I was wrangling a toddler at the same time (and Japanese isn't my native language, so the narrator may have been referencing another person).
They had plenty of foresight. They built that power plant along the cost with centuries' old markers warning of massive tsunami waves, and inspections showed a need for improving anti-tsunami measures years before the 3/11 earthquake. TEPCO just sat on its ass and did nothing.
But think of the money they saved by not acting on those warnings! They were no doubt able to do some other unimportant by comparison bullshit
Many of the factors for the incident were actually covered by their version of the AEC. But the developers skipped corners for this reactor and didn't follow all the laws they needed to.
Skipping corners was how Chernobyl happened too. Based solely on the mini series lol
Chernobyl reactor had a design flaw, it had positive coefficient. When things got how, it'd continue to get hotter and result in runaway reaction Running the reactor in very low power caused this since the reactors can't run at very low power.
I'm sure someone has a better ELI5 in that sub.
Yeah the Fukushima plant was actually designed quite well for its time it was just that it was never intended to run without any sort of backup power to run the cooling system yet despite of that it did not release massive quantities of radiation like Chernobyl did.
The backup generators were stored in the basement and they were flooded by the Tsunami and had they been stored much higher they would have been able to keep cooling the plant down without it melting down.
More newer designs allow for passive cooling so that even without any backup power it can shut down and avert a meltdown
Additionally their portable generators (basically semitrucks with lots of fuel) had the wrong type of plug.
Fukushima did release massive quantities of radiation lol, most of it just went into the ocean instead of the air
Not Chernobyl levels of radiation though which is key here.
No one died as a direct result of radiation levels and comparing the two it's easy to see which was worse.
I think he meant skipping the required safety tests in order to get the reactor up and running as soon as possible, so they'd meet quotas, only to then rush the last required safety test before the end of the year, resulting in the chain of events.
That’s not exactly what happened at Chernobyl. The operator’s conducting the test were trained and genuinely thought that the emergency shut down would stop the reaction, they were never made aware of the design flaw that essentially turns the emergency shutdown into a detonator. The fault lies mostly with the soviet atomic authorities for not disclosing the flaw and training its staff properly with that knowledge.
I have to wonder how many people even know about the design flaw. They covered it in the mini-series, but how many engineers designing the plant had known and said something? It sounds like the flaw was only in this specific circumstance that only occurred because of the botched safety test, so would many engineers have considered this possibility? The USSR absolutely tried to squash knowledge of it after the fact, but I wonder if it would have been considered a reasonable concern in the first place.
I might have to look into it again, but from the mini series it sounds like the tips of the rods were supposed to use a certain material but it was replaced with graphite or something and that was not disclosed to anyone. The team doing the test was running everything by the manual but because the tips were the wrong material when they were reinserted it caused a run away and exploded.
I believe graphite was the typical material used in those reactors, but the safety test caused the meltdown due to atypical power cycling. IIRC, it only exploded due to bureaucrats pushing to finish the test instead of doing things properly. It should never have exploded otherwise.
Just look at how long Three Mile Island got named-dropped in the US whenever people opposed nuclear power - and that was a contained meltdown that caused minimal harm/damage.
Yep, people got scared for a long time after that, and Three Mile Island was just a little fart compared to explosive diarrhea that Chernobyl experienced.
Funnily enough Fukushima was contained incredibly well, to the point that the the extended evacuation likely has done more harm than having not done so. Unlike Chernobyl, rain is essentially washing contaminants into the sea which if there’s anywhere it should go, the ocean is the least bad by a huge margin. Letting stuff wash away isn’t exactly an option in Chernobyl as it’s just far to in land and rivers don’t contain or shift material fast enough to clean quickly.
No one, not even the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission warning of it in 1991 and Japan's own agency referenced this in a 2004 report that they were at risk for and not prepared for losing power. Or TEPCO's own 2000 in-house report warning of the risk of flooding. Or not following up on government earthquake research findings that showed higher waves than they planned for. They of course knew of it, with in-house study citing the 15.7m tsunami estimations (they were prepared for 15m.
Certainly, no one saw that coming
The public had an irrational fear of nuclear so it's taken forever to restart these plants but the rising cost of fossil fuels has forced the local governments to restart some of them.
Or did what the Germans did and decide that coal was more environmentally friendly for reasons.
No german ever did that. I have no idea what think tank came up with this hoax.
You mean the Greens didn't push through closing all the nuclear reactors for no real reason, requiring a shift to coal and oil to provide power? I'm sure we're all glad to hear that./s
There hasn't been any shift to coal. The green proposed the exit of coal for decades. Nuclear energy was about 20% of german electric power production and is already completely replaced by renewable energy while coal is going down. There are loads of reasons to end nuclear energy. The exit of nuclear energy was decided by the CDU, by the way.The greens never had that executive power.
shutting down of coal was never a realistic alternative for poltical reasons. the choice was basically renewables or nuclear.
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They never really had a choice, the only other alternative is start burning more fossil fuels.
Good to see them finally moving forward with this. Japan's in such a tough spot with limited natural resources and they've been so dependent on importing fossil fuels since Fukushima. Nuclear isn't perfect but sitting on functional reactors while burning through imported oil and gas doesn't make sense long term, especially with climate goals. 15 years is a long time to get the safety measures up to standard but hopefully that means they actually did it right this time.
15 years! Where the hell has time gone?
My exact thoughts. I had enlisted into the Marine corps that year and got orders to Japan around August, a few months after the incident. Seeing 15 years written out like that is unnerving lol.
Always happy to see good news for nuclear. We're decades behind where we could now be for the industry and ecologically far worse off for it.
And advancing fission power would definitely have gotten us closer to fusion power, which should be our end game the way things are going
theyre fundamentally different technologies, this is complete nonsense.
You're so smart you go invent nuclear fission
We have nuclear fission, that's how nuclear plants and bombs work. Fusion is what we need to develop.
It's about time. Fukushima has set not only Japan but the world back on nuclear. Time to re-embrace nuclear with renewed safety policies.
Can you design earthquake proofing into nuclear reactors?
There is no "proofing", but all nuclear facility are built to be earthquake resistant.
IAEA Safety Standard even have a entire safety guide on Seismic Design.
In fact, Fukushima incident was not cause by the earthquake but the ill-prepared tsunami.
And they should have prepared for that. Japan is quite aware of the danger of tsunamis and other nuclear facilities had better measures in place.
Just in time for the new Godzilla movie
That was my wedding day, I remember it well.
Do they have plans to build newer ones?
This one better not enjoy an ocean view.
What could possibly go wrong
It's fine. Nothing will go wrong.
nothing happens twice
Ah, that's the science they are relying on.
Mother Nature: sighs
cracks left side of neck
cracks right side of neck
starts moving plates
Gunna wait JUUUUST until the radiation has a massive impact.