TL;DR - We’ve given wikis a makeover. The improved wiki (launching next week) includes: new tools and layout, additional safety features, more edit access options, and improved discoverability. For those with wikis built on old.reddit, we’ll move your existing content over, so that everything is preserved.
Hello, Mods!
Wikis are getting a long-overdue makeover and it’s rolling out next week. This isn’t just a new coat of paint, but a full top-to-bottom overhaul. Over the past few months, we’ve rebuilt Reddit wikis to be more intuitive, better-looking, and (dare we say?) more enjoyable to use.
New Wiki Tools & Layout
Whether you’re building a rules page, a resource hub, or something wonderfully specific to your community, you’ll now have:
- In-line editing + templates: Skip the “where do I start?” moment. Edit directly on the page (Google Docs style), and use templates to add structure fast.
- Embedded media + infoboxes: Add images, YouTube videos, Reddit posts, and citations, or surface key info in structured infoboxes.
- Auto-save: Your edits will now save as you go. So if you accidentally close a tab or the site hiccups (we’ve all been there), your edits won’t vanish into the void.
Safety Features
We know wikis can hold a community’s most important info, and we’ve built in guardrails to keep that safe and tidy, including:
- Page-level visibility: Make pages public or mod-only. Great for keeping internal docs separate from public-facing ones.
- Easy reverts: Every page has a full version history, allowing mods to easily revert any changes.
- Full activity logs: Every edit will get logged on the new Wiki Activity Page, so mods will always have visibility into who changed what and when.
Visibility settings and a new wiki version history page.
Expanded Wiki Access
Keeping a wiki fresh and up to date can be time-consuming, and you shouldn’t have to do it all alone. With this update, mods now have more options for edit access:
- Mod-only editing (classic)
- Approved contributors that are added to the wiki (classic)
- Minimum account age and subreddit karma holders, where you can specify the thresholds (classic)
- Top contributor access (based on the top 10% commenter and poster achievements with high+ CQS scores) (new)
- Successful contributor access (based on recent non-removed posters and commenters with high+ CQS scores) (new)
- Anyone (classic)
Wiki editing page, showing new options like successful contributor editing.
You can also lock down individual pages, so your internal docs stay mod-only, even if the rest of the wiki is more open. And yes, bans apply here too. If someone’s out of the sub, they’re out of the wiki. If you want to get more precise, we’ve included more granular permissions so you can ban individual users just from the wiki. To do this, access your settings directly from the wiki page and click on banned contributors.
Starting the week of July 14, we’ll be turning on “successful contributor access” for a handful of communities (excluding NSFW, restricted, private, and other sensitive topics).
If your community is included in this group you’ll receive a mod mail by tomorrow with the details, and an opportunity to opt-out if it’s not the right fit. You can toggle this setting back to “mod-only” editing at any time within Mod Tools > Wiki Settings on desktop only.
Improving Discovery
Building a great wiki is one thing; getting people to read it is another. We’re rolling out two immediate changes to help on that front:
- Smarter SEO indexing means your wiki pages are now more likely to show up in Google search results.
- For eligible subreddits, new in-feed wiki callouts will be tested, so users can discover relevant wiki content while they’re browsing posts.
Bottom line: If your community is putting time into their wiki, we want it to reach people. These updates help make that possible.
New wiki discovery units within a subreddits feed.
What about my old wiki?
We built this system from the ground up, which means old wikis won’t carry over automatically. But don’t worry, on the week of July 14, we’ll move your existing content over, preserving everything you’ve built. A few notes:
- Edits made via old.reddit after the migration won’t sync to the new system and vice versa.
- We’ve separated out the automod config page, so they will continue to sync, and changes made on old.reddit will be reflected everywhere.
- When this happens, check out your wiki contribution settings to ensure they meet your team's needs.
Thank you
Special thanks to the over 200+ subreddits that joined our r/ModEarlyAccess program, who helped us test and refine this new wiki feature. You bug-hunted, flagged edge cases, and offered thoughtful and direct feedback that pushed this work in the right direction.
We hope this new system helps keep your community informed and organized. Whether you’re writing a refreshed rules page, lore compendium, resource hub, or an elaborate ARG (you know who you are), we’re excited to see what communities build.
As always, drop your feedback and questions in the comments, and let us know what’s working, what’s missing, and what you’d like to see next.
Howdy, folks - see here for our latest update.
The tl;dr is we're not auto enabling subreddits into the new experience. If mods team are interested in utilizing the new wiki tools they'll need to request them via this form. Once you do, we’ll migrate your community the week of August 11.
You’ll have full control over who can contribute, nothing changes unless you say so. If you’ve been waiting for a better way to organize your sub’s best content, this is it.
Feel free to reach out if you've got question or need a hand.
We have never had user wiki editing on our subreddit, yet we've just received a notice that will be changed — without our consent — unless we specifically opt ourselves out with three days notice, over a weekend.
What is the logic in unilaterally opening a new channel for spam and abuse without the approval of the people saddled with policing it? What benefit can this possibly bring to the platform?
My understanding is that it is being changed anyway and you cannot stop them. The only thing you can opt out of is giving access to unapproved users to edit.
At least that is what the opt-out form says it is for.
Per the post, the mod-only editing option is still going to be there, they're just... arbitrarily not respecting the existing settings and making public access the default.
I know. I have already opted out.
Seeing which users have the Top 1% Contributor badge in our sub makes me determined to never let reddit decide who should have access to anything.
Yeah... One of my subs purposely turned it off because the people with them were basically just posting low effort content constantly...
Yeah there is no way in hell I’m letting Reddit’s algorithms choose who contributes to or edits our wiki
Reminds me of how the government does things. Especially the weekend part.
Controversial announcements they don't want to get any attention get released right before the weekend.
How could it not be intentional?
This sounds very nice but it sounds like if you visit on old.reddit then you have to edit the same info in two locations. I use the wiki page as a list of all the models a company makes and links to instructions and other useful info. Would there be any way to run the conversion program again so I could make an edit on old.reddit and have it push to new Reddit? That way I don’t have to edit on old Reddit than hop on to another device and make the same edit on new Reddit, or make the change on old Reddit and have new Reddit be out of date?
I know it's not ideal, but you could link to the wiki that is being kept up-to-date in the one that isn't. Send users to the one with all the info and maintain only one.
We already need to maintain three copies of our rules:
Am I to understand that we'll now need to maintain a fourth copy, as the old and new wiki systems will need to be kept in sync manually?
I think in this case, it may be easiest to simply point the new wiki page to our old one. Without some mechanism to keep these in sync, it's just going to lead to more fracturing than we already deal with.
I assume at least that new reddit will continue to be able to parse the old wiki. Many systems are built on it, since it offers revision history to important pages (sidebar, CSS, et al).
If they're going to manually migrate this stuff once as a "courtesy" it's entirely possible and likely even trivial to build an automation that runs the task on a repeated basis. Frankly you could build a sync tool yourself in AutoIT with Webdriver if you really wanted to.
They aren't going to do it because they do not want you using old reddit.
you can pin the old wiki link in your pinned posts. that's what I've been doing. I am going to make it even more clear clear that i don't use new reddit now.
Why on God's green earth would you make this on by default?
And yet pretty much every one of my major subs has gotten that same modmail saying it will be turned on by default unless I opt them out...
Feels like far more than a handful.
Same here for 5 subreddits out of the 7 I mod. The only two excluded ones are also those with least activity.
We have a lot of mod only information in many of my subreddits. We don't want this suddenly being accessible, even for a short time, to random users. As a result, I've opted out in all subs.
https://www.reddit.com/r/modnews/s/tIXLpoSeo3
See viewing
That's good but it still means users would be able to edit visible pages - like our rules lol. That's really not good.
TY for the info though!
The old reddit wiki pages will be copied over to the new reddit wiki pages at first, but will there be a way to automatically transfer over an old reddit wiki page at any time after that? There's a lot of subreddits that have bots that automatically update an old reddit wiki page, it'd be convenient to be able to keep the old and new wiki page the same without having to change all those bots to use new reddit instead. (especially since it sounds like there's no public API for the new reddit wiki pages anyway...)
I support this, even if it means the redesigned wiki page can only be edited on old Reddit.
What about bots that use wiki pages for config? I don't want the settings auto-saving then causing issues with the bot. Typically, I actually want to change the config and submit when I've double checked everything. (To be fair, I want to do that with public wiki pages, too)
You are launching next week? But it's not working!
Everyone ITT is welcome to attempt and edit this page, which access is public. You will observe that the existing content hasn't been moved over to be preserved. It is frozen in time, it cannot be updated. As I mentioned in r/ModEarlyAccess, with 100 blocked pages I have no other option than disabling the entire wiki ... for this issue includes the index page, towards which Reddit is redirecting users by default (“wiki home”).
Unfortunately, I don't build rules page or resource hubs, what I am interested in are local subreddits. From this perspective, I cannot say I saw any improvement from the old system.
I reckon the lack of API integration may explain why some Devvit apps feature aren't working any more (auto-modmail, subreddit stats).
The approved users who can edit the wiki are an entirely separate list from those in mods tools "mods and members". One cannot merge the two lists, mods are expected to copy and paste thousands of usernames (they will not).
And what's the point of rushing a feature that isn't fully available on mobile. Embedded media is the whole point of this endeavor.
Now, don’t get me wrong, the wikis makeover is a beautiful feature, full of promises. Although a complete disaster in all the subreddits with pre-existing wikis, the experience is enjoyable when one is starting from scratch. I love it and let's be honest, I probably wouldn’t be half as mad if the mature filter wasn’t set by default all over the place. Once again, without any possibility for mods to overrule its incoherent censorship.
What a most unfortunate circumstance in a subreddit dedicated to European arts and culture...
Just wanting to echo how ridiculous this is. There is no community where all "successful contributors" can be implicitly trusted.
Really putting a damper on the "we respect our moderators" sentiment Reddit has been trying to push since neutering 3rd party apps.
Introducing systems that grant new access should ALWAYS be opt-in. Shame on your Product Owners.
Heya Mods!
Just a quick update, we've heard all your feedback and are working on a plan to make this new system fully opt in, while also ensuring all major bugs are fixed ahead of launch. It's got a few moving pieces, so we need a few more days to share the full plan. We know you have lots of questions, we'll be back next week with all the details and to answer your questions - for now, please know nothing will happen until you hear from us again.
Cheers!
Good choice. So many things are stored on the wiki that should never be edited by anybody except the mods. The rules, subreddit CSS, toolbox config... some specialized subreddit bots even store their own config in the wiki.
Thanks for listening to the feedback.
Thank you for the update.
What is the communication method by which we will hear further updates? Is "following" this thread sufficient? Does more need to be done?
Personally, I'd like to ensure I don't miss further information on this topic, and just happening to check back or have it pushed to my feed by chance wouldn't suffice. There should be a way to get these updates as notifications.
We'll have a new post in modnews next week and we'll post here as well. We'll make sure you don't miss anything. :)
Glad y'all made this change. Now we just need to figure out how to avoid fragmentation between New and Old Wiki.
Just a quick question if it's ok, but will we have a post here announcing when all the stuff talked about in the topic is up & running in full?
Appreciate you guys listening to the feedback here. I do want to take this opportunity to mention also that I really think there's some major issues with modmail going into the chats section & I'd love it if the admins would talk to us over here, or on r/ModSupport.
I'm already finding problems with it.
Thank you.
Will headers and anchor links work on mobile?
Why isn’t it opt-in instead of opt-out? This kind of thing could destroy a subreddit. It should be opt in only.
Reddit always does that. It makes no sense
I agree. Especially since Reddit went public on the stock market I noticed it’s markedly worse now.
While I appreciate the idea of this, does this mean that if I'm overhauling a public page some of my changes might get saved and be immediately visible in the middle of editing it? Or will there be a way to disable auto-saves or some separate "publishing" feature so that edits don't go live until I want them to?
This really isn’t an effective way to handle this. High CQS scores, top commenter/poster status, or having recent submissions that weren’t removed aren’t good indicators of whether someone should be allowed to edit the wiki. Our wikis mostly contain rules and other read-only content.
I really don’t like the idea of having to fill out an extra form just to stop some power users with high CQS scores from abusing wiki access.
Allowing this by default was a bad idea. Just let mods know this feature exists and let them decide whether to allow users to edit their wikis.
The people in our community with top contributor badges are the spammiest karma farmers we haven't banned yet.
The people I would pick are those willing to make valuable comments that don't agree with the hivemind. There is no chance their score will ever be high enough.
Exactly my point. This heavy reliance on CQS is stupid, it’s being treated like some fix-all solution. Even for the chat channels, CQS is considered an important factor.
I totally agree!
Edits made via old.reddit after the migration won’t sync to the new system and vice versa.
Awesome, I'll make sure that it's very clear in the sidebar and in pinned posts that the only wiki that will be updated for my subreddit will only be visible on old.reddit. I'm sure that's going to make even more people read the rules!
just kidding they don't read shit anyway, mostly.
OldReddit still exist and should not be put aside. You've got now ~3 versions of new reddit and users, particularly old users and Moderators, showed every time that we want to keep OldReddit. Stop forcing us to go to NewReddit until it's finally on par with OldReddit. It is not yet. We don't want to stay on OldReddit because it is OldReddit, we want to stay in OldReddit because NewReddit isn't good enough for our daily moderations actions.
Sync between old and new should have been the 1st task of this new Wiki. Whether we have one common interface or we need to write on new then it'll sync on old (or old->new); that's up to you but it should have been thought before.
We don't have as always our say on this. Under the prestance of "talking with the community" you made an early access (I didn't participate but I followed what others did say) but you did not, as always, listen to the Community... It's really time you start listening to what make Reddit Reddit : Moderators.
P. S. : others have given more detailed feedback and more useful.
P. P. S. : also, try to respect us by giving us more than 4 DAYS to opt-out. Also, it's not opt-out of the new wiki, it's opt-out CQS having access to modifying wiki...
This is what I was thinking. I would at least understand that I had to go to sh.reddit to edit all wikis and have the updated content show everywhere, but the fact that they can't sync at all (but they can with the Automod config page??) is the most frustrating thing about this update for me. Mods that stick to sh.reddit already don't go out of their way to at least update the old reddit sidebar to have a link to the rules and then otherwise say "see sh.reddit if you want to be up to date!", now they have to do it with a whole wiki ecosystem?
IKR? I wouldn't mind going to NewReddit, we all know it's the default version of Reddit, it's annoying but that's how it is. I would have dealt with it like we're dealing with sidebar (which is also stupid... why can't they sync?). But that change, with all due respect, it's pure bullfecal change.
I know things aren't as easy as "just do it" to stay in a bovine reference but they had 1) time 2) ressources 3) community's feedback. The last one being particularly important, not all product have such a vivid and dedicated community. Why?because we heavily use and like Reddit.
See, this is why it's obvious that the issue isn't that they "can't" make it sync, but that they won't. The best way to force more old.reddit mods to interact with the newest reddit is similar to a war of attrition. And that was the plan all along.
Let's be honest. The new one will never be on par with Old Reddit.
It could be if they wanted to!
My team is currently debating between two options: making all of our shreddit wiki pages consist entirely of an link to the old reddit wiki page, and writing a bot that automatically copies edits over from old reddit to shreddit. We don't know how compatible it will be with our current wiki's markdown, so we have no idea if the latter approach is even feasible.
We believe that maintaining two versions of the same wiki pages at once is both extra work and doomed to failure. If one has to manually edit both, the two pages will inevitably get out of sync. This is obviously awful for our rules page, but also means that our other wiki pages will display subtly different pieces of information to different users who accessed the same link, and one may be significantly out of date.
My sub just opted out of it. This was a hilariously awful idea. The majority of our wiki pages are either important information being conveyed from mods to users, or archives of prior threads we maintain. I don't think I need to elaborate on why the former should not be user edited. As for the latter, the risk of someone deciding to deface the page, or just a well intentioned but misinformed user changing it, outweighs the slight benefit of not having to hit like four buttons to add an trusted user as a contributor.
According to this Admin comment, there is no API availability for the new wikis.
Well that sure seems like it would make using a bot far more effort.
Can't even do it with Devvit either
Would have to use Selenium. Which isn't, like, undoable or anything. But would be a pain in the ass.
I love than Selenium exists, but it's a pain in the ass when it's used because nothing else can be... Especially when better options definitely should exist.
Hopefully the underlying code isn't a disaster too because the new wiki system is gonna be WYSIWYG only. Another huge pain point. I don't understand why it has to be this way.
Agree with it being another avenue for spam with limited visibility for us. Our wiki is used for configuration of robots and nothing else. Please stop making massive changes like these opt out, breaking changes like these are pretty obnoxious.
And get it shoved in their face through an opt-out approach with only 4 days to respond. Why is this opt-out? Why interfere with how communities manage their wikis and have setup privileges now?
Please make this opt-in instead of opt-out.
Frankly the notice given to moderators does not make this change obvious enough, and the time frame to opt-out is way too small.
Will this break things like Toolbox? (which stores settings and user notes in the wiki)
Nope, toolbox relies on old reddit wikis which can still be used.
Are there steps being taken to prevent mod-only toolbox user notes from being exposed to users?
Oh great, another thing we have to edit in 2 places.
Why would I want anyone other than an approved contributor or a mod editing a public wiki?
Other than that. This is cool.
edit: wait I see a super contributor badge in flair.
Lots of good changes but
I don't like it. I think I'm the only member of my mod team that actively monitors this page so "random users will be able to edit the rarely used rules guidance & recommended posts wiki pages" strikes me as more likely to cause confusion than help. It's a really cool idea if you're trying to claw google links for e.g. a video game, show or fandom subreddit but this is more of a fundamental change for other subreddits that aren't using as you're now intending.
I see that modmail message but it's also something that can slip through cracks.
e.g. creating a hard fork between old and new reddit wikis are just creating pain points for no benefits to the sub I'm thinking about because, again, it's not being used as a wikia/gamefaqs replacement. But since we're not using it a lot I'm not sure reddit admins sees that as a bad thing and perhaps there's an upside here for a "wiki" people use like good docs but I haven't thought of it. It's a pretty quick turnaround and I suspect a number of subs aren't going to have planned for it but perhaps nothing changes in the short term. I can't imagine random reddit users will be aware of the change for a while.
Tbf, wikis have never had good SEO so it's no wonder that everyone still uses fandom.
They shouldn't though, because Fandom the company is a terrible plague on actual fandoms and nobody I know actually likes them - they only use it begrudgingly.
For traditional wikis, self-hosting is ideal if possible, otherwise, Miraheze and wiki.gg are good.
I wouldn't mind reddit wikis being used in this way down the line, but when it still doesn't have as much functionality as MediaWiki software it's just a hard sell.
I’m part of mod early access and I’m a bit disappointed to see some concerns not be addressed and to find out that it’s now being moved to the public before these things are fixed.
This is a copy and paste of the modmail I sent:
Moderator of r/autism
Hi, I just wanted to message with some new feedback on the wiki features. The last wiki post is quite old now so I figured sending a modmail would be better.
Is there an update on changes to the right rail navigation feature? Before we talked about it being clunky, feels separated from the rest of the wiki, is quite visually overwhelming, etc. It's quite wide. Will we be able to customize the pages shown here (without making them mod only)? My example of parent page and subpages shows how not every page needs to be shown in the navigation and in fact can become cluttered and make it harder to find the main parent pages. I would love an update on this!
We seem to have lost some features. I am wondering if that is intended because they are no longer available or if that is a bug? For example, when clicking on the three dots on the rich text editor bar (where the infobox is housed) we used to have more options here. Now we only have the infobox, basic paragraph, image and paragraph, and list. I can't remember exactly what used to be here, but there were definitely more. Maybe it was a dream!
Customization. We talked about customization previously and I'd like to ask again.
First is templates. The templates are sure to be useful for a lot of communities, but for us none of them fit. It's more trouble for me because I cannot start from scratch, have to pick a random template, and then delete everything. So my first request is an option to start from scratch. My second request is the ability for subs to create their own templates. I use similar format across pages, they just don't align with any of the current templates. Starting from scratch and being able to make my own templates would be a game changer and make my life much easier.
Second is icons/images. Right now, we have to reupload an image every time. Are there plans to save our previous uploads so we can use them again? Also, are there plans in the future to link to stock image type databases? I am not sure if you are aware of Easy Read and Plain Language writing, but we will be utilizing these heavily in our sub and wiki. These writing styles work with icons, which support and visually describe what the text is about. Having those there where I don't have to upload thousands of icons would also be a gamechanger. (Think shutterstock, adobestock, flaticon).
iOS app. Is that in an early phase where I should just ignore what's going on with it? Or is it supposed to be on par with our desktop wiki? I don't include feedback on the app view of the wiki because I'm not sure if that's a bit behind everything else. But it’s not good.
When are the next phase of features going to roll out? We haven't had an updated post in awhile so I just wanted to check in and see if we're still tinkering with things before introducing the next phase.
Community. I submitted similar feedback on a survey, I think it was a partner communities survey. But I wanted to reiterate what I said here. There are a lot of subs with this new wiki experience, but there isn't much collaborating and often, the subs I knew of that are part of this program don't actually utilize a whole lot of features and wikis are ghost towns. I like getting inspiration! I think you could get much better and faster feedback if the mods in the program had an area to chat with each other and peer review each other's wiki. It can be crickets in here and I think having a space to have collaborative efforts would be great for everybody. I also think that should be utilize for other beta features as well!
First off, you're right - we should have properly closed out our program and missed this one. Apologies.
Appreciate sharing this feedback here as well. We've still been collecting and parsing through the feedback we received. Couple of notes here:
Re: the iOS view - that viewing experience will be getting an update; we're aiming to roll out improvements there over the next few weeks.
A few other pieces of feedback we had been considering for this launch - including right rail navigation improvements and allowing custom templates to be created. We ultimately opted for a few other features for launch. We also made a few design changes as well - this includes some of the options you previously saw.
That all said, this is going out with many improvements based on feedback and insights from the early access group. For example:
In this next stage, we'll continue to monitor how it's being used, while taking into account feedback we've captured from the MEAP!
Also that's great feedback re: MEAP. I'll share back with the team; we could likely set up a chat channel or some other space for mods to collab/discuss!
Just saying “Apologies” doesn’t cut it anymore. Mod feedback is consistently ignored to push half finished features that make our jobs more difficult. And even still, in this entire thread, there’s been no explanation as to why any decisions were made on several aspects of this update that most people are rightfully concerned about.
Do the admins have a plan to actually improve transparency and feedback, or will you keep apologizing every time without taking accountability?
The naming conventions for permissions here are insanely confusing to me. If I'm understanding correctly, this actually means "successful contributor edit permissions", right?
You're right - excuse the confusion!
Editing to say that this is generally a great update from a usability perspective, particularly the additional of embedded media. (Don't want my entire comment to be a critique)
What is the user experience for anyone that continues to browse with Old Reddit by default? Will they see the Old Reddit Wikis, which will presumably grow increasingly out-of-date, or the Shreddit Wikis? Is there any kind of indication that a page has newer content on the Shreddit Wiki version?
Please explain to me the rationale for making "successful contributor access" to wikis opt-out rather than opt-in? We use our wiki pages for the long-form version of our rules and for internal documentation, only a fraction of which is exposed publicly. Why would we want to give random users access to all of this by default? Are you trying to give r/SubredditDrama an aneurysm from all the leaked internal pages?
I imagine it's going to be the same as the old reddit sidebar - shows the old without a sign something's changed.
I'd love to see what the utilization percentage is for the top x subreddits that are actually using wikis or have kept it updated.
What is the purpose of this? How does it help reddit?
I have wiki with vaccination information that been curated for eight years. Why on earth would I want to open that to editing from people who have a lot of upvotes in antivaccine subreddits? I don't think that any of you have ever modded.
Why is auto save a good thing? Sometimes we want to edit without automatically making the edits live for everyone to see.
This lack of sync between old and new wiki systems risks confusion and accidental overwrites, could this be reconsidered or clarified further?
Brilliant. Just brilliant. Well, I guess reducing the new wiki to a single page linking to the Old Reddit wiki will fix it.
I hope this doesn't mean markdown is deprecated. Removing markdown support and forcing a WYSIWYG editor might be the only way to get me to leave Reddit faster than removing Old Reddit.
I wouldn't be surprised if that's next
/u/cozy__sheets
Will we FINALLY get the ability to delete wiki pages?
There are so many wiki pages that are no longer relevant that are just hanging around 'cause there's no mechanism to delete them.
I'm this close to deleting the wiki on our subreddit entirely.
How will this Impact/Effect the Reddit API?
+1, specifically if markdown is going to change.
Quite a few subreddits (r/changemyview, r/headphoneadvice, etc) use points systems that store user info in wikipages.
Good question; this updated Wiki experience is not currently integrated with our API. This change does not impact how old.reddit Wikis are currently integrated with our API.
I want to preface this by saying that a wiki makeover was long overdue and I really like the new wiki features, but the lack of auto-conversion from old to new combined with the lack of API access could really backfire and probably decrease adoption in the largest subs.
Many subreddits have at least some wiki pages maintained by bots. So as a mod what are our possible solutions:
So the only option that remains is to redirect everyone to the old wiki. And if subreddits need to redirect users to the old wiki for certain pages, then it's easier to redirect them for all pages than to maintain a complex web of old and new wikis. That would mean a worse user experience for everyone who is NOT visiting from OLD reddit. Even for those of us who would happily switch to only the new wiki, we can't do that if the automated pages can't be implemented in any form.
I appreciate that implementing an API for the new wiki can be a long process, but clearly there is already a way to convert the old wiki pages to new wiki pages. If we could enable certain pages to be synced to the old wiki automatically it would solve most of these issues. It would allow subreddits to make a gradual transition to the new wiki and a better user experience for everyone.
Can you explain a bit more? There are bots that use/maintain wiki pages, but the post says edits on old wiki pages won't transfer to the new wiki once the new wiki is live. So I'm a bit confused
Yes, bots can't use new wiki pages :/
For bots that use wiki for settings and stuff I assume it doesn't matter much because those are generally mod only anyway. But for stuff like leaderboards it sucks if users would no longer be able to see up to date info
I have a bot that updates a wiki page with the current subscriber statistics of all the YouTubers that the community are fans of.
You're breaking major functionality here.
Not currently? When will it be?
When will API endpoints be made for the new wiki system?
Never. Their GraphQL endpoints (used by sh.reddit and the apps) remain first party only.
Features being supported directly on Old Reddit indicates API support since it relies on the same public API
Note included in the opt out form:
Why do we have to put them in a coma? 😢
Will the color setings I added in the stylesheet of old.reddit also be ported to new.reddit/sh.reddit?
I created tables with specific colored sections. Currently only visible in old.reddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/ReagentTesting/wiki/color-spectrum
We use wikis to give info to users. Allowing anyone to edit a wiki is open to sabotage by bad actors.
Please... no...
I thought I knew pain...
To me it feels like there is no good or positive reason to make the wiki old. and .new separate with no syncing, unless the reasoning is intentionally malicious with the purpose of doing just that, to further neuter old.reddit to encourage another wave of mods to abandon old.
The separation of the rules and removal reasons is awful enough already.
I get such mixed signals. I see you make positive changes one day, showing that you want to help mods, you're thankful for mods, you understand moderation, then the next day you intend to make this insanely bad change, in my opinion. Why??? There's a reason why so many mods use old.reddit. Please support us in that, don't do the opposite please.
I like the separation. That's one of the few good things they've done recently. You can have multiple removal reasons linked to the same rule to add specificity to removals without having write a custom response every time.
I hope it doesn't use the same criteria you use to suggest potential mods, the last time I requested that 3 people had been banned from the sub in the last 12 months, 4 of them had made about 4 comments to the sub total and the other 2 were former mods who had stepped down within the last 30 days
Wild suggestion, just don't turn things on by default???
The last time someone from the subreddit I mod requested this, it suggested someone who was already actively a mod and had been so for over a year, lol.
What a fantastic suggestion lol
So mods, who are volunteers and have a lot on their plate already, will have to opt out of this change to the Wiki? And if they don't realize this or do it quickly enough, users can come in and vandalize it and spread inappropriate stuff?
This should be something you opt into if you want it, not something you have to opt out of.
smell fuzzy memory provide office head badge profit whistle ad hoc
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
So the death of old.reddit continues. You're REALLY trying to "alienate" your long term mods huh?
It's a super slow death, so there won't be a public outrage with loss of users.
What if we don’t want to migrate to the new wiki system?
So editing wiki pages via the API won't appear on sh.reddit? Are bots completely useless? Even Devvit apps edit the old wiki
All I did was a "ctrl F" for these topics so I could have missed a discussion already.
I don't see Automoderator mentioned anywhere. Automoderator settings are stored in a wiki (as far as I can tell). That brings up questions which again, may have been answered and I just missed.
For those wiki pages that are not already public, they should not import to a public state, whether or not the subreddit has opted out of CQS Score editors.
Second question is: can we see a list of CQS score users? So we can get a feel for who might be editing our wikis if or when this is implemented.
I have so many questions about this.
Hey Mods, first thanks to all of you for all the feedback on this launch today - we really appreciate it. We're taking it all in and will be putting a pause on this launch for the time being.
For now, I suggest filling out the form if you don't want to be opted in. We'll keep all of you posted on our next steps, including the revised launch date.
That's not how "opting in" works.
What is the plan on letting us know any updates? Just via a modnews post? Modmail blast? Some other method?
Is there an ideal way to send further structured feedback that won't get lost in the noise?
Another 4 day notice and hoping you are constantly on reddit to see it by chance between all the ad spam.
Yeah, if they can respect us and give us more than 4 days that would be cool...
Also, mind ya, you do not opt-out of the new wiki. You opt-out CQC having access to wiki!
How about you just change the damn default instead?
/u/redtaboo
Will we FINALLY get the ability to delete wiki pages?
There are so many wiki pages that are no longer relevant that are just hanging around 'cause there's no mechanism to delete them.
Fill out the form?
The one that has ZERO ability to authenticate that the person who filled out the form is really a moderator of ANY sub? The one that I could just fill in the blanks that I am u/redtaboo and I want to opt out r/modnews? The one that doesn't even require a pinky promise that I am who I say I am?
Come on.
yes - I found that bizarre.
But for a lazy person like me I felt it good that the form has just 2 questions lol.
But now I agree, anyone can fill any sub's names to opt out.
Also how do we know if our sub has already been opted out? At least if there was an almost immediate modmail confirming the action others would know. Right now there’s probably many mods opting out each sub just to be safe
The one where I have to have a google account and potentially doxx myself?
The form was poorly designed but you do not need to have a Google account to submit it.
Thanks you for listening.
This really needs to urgently be swapped to opt in rather than opt out, especially as there’s no way to see whether a sub has been opted in or out.
The idea of having a wiki for a subreddit is relatively niche but subreddit mods using the wiki for mod things is incredibly common. And given the issues we had on two partner communities I mod before during the trial where private information was surfaced as we took “mod only” to mean only mods could view it but admins interpreted as only mods could edit. This could have really serious implications here. It cannot be opt out.
Wait so our mod only pages can still be viewed by the sub?? I thought it affected visibility, that was the entire point of asking for that option
I would recommend checking on another account because they exposed all of our mod only pages. There’s apparently a different setting to make it private.
Goodness I’ll check thanks for saying this otherwise I wouldn’t have thought anything of it!
We are a partner community so had early access and they had to rapidly fix it for us. What’s most annoying is we have no need for it. We have a wiki off site that we will not be moving onto Reddit and they know that.
Oh we’re also a partner community and part of early access. That’s what a meant by requesting that visibility option in my earlier comment!
Thank you. We appreciate that you heard us.
I hope there'll be a way to automatically sync an old wiki page to the new side when this actually gets rolled out. That's really my main concern with this update, if that gets fixed then I'll be happy. There are a lot of subreddits with bots that automatically update their wiki through the API. It'd be kind of a pain to have to redirect users to the old.reddit wiki page in a web browser to see those pages.
The way you can thank us is by knocking off the bullshit you all keep doing with new feature rollouts.
If you have a new feature rolling out, tell us about it, and if we want it, we will turn it on our damn selves. Stop opting us in and then forcing us to disable it.
Are you guys pausing this simply for a few days/week to allow more mods to fill-out the opt-out form? OR is there a bigger reason like fixing other raised issue/s first?
I'll appreciate a clarification.
Here are some answers. Sorry for necroposting.
Yeah red gave me the link shortly after writing that.
Thanks anyways! 🙂
Or, you know, make it opt in?
Really weird btw having no authentication for the opt out form.
Our sub has opted out. Horrible idea.
Where's this form? I don't see it, hell "form" isn't even mentioned in the post. Why can't you link it in your comment?
This is the link that was included with the modmail notice:
https://forms.gle/7TLAkuLDVvwJqonB8
I saw your DM but I don’t understand anything. Maybe it’s too early in the morning??
wiki edit / create permission from subreddit karma or overall karma? Could you verify? Classic wiki was overall karma, and I've been begging, writing songs, and even frustrated toward Santa Snoo every Christmas to limit the wiki edit / create permissions to subscribers or a subredditkarma contributor and not include anyone with the karma threshold from the entire site.
Edit: added create. we do not want others creating random wiki pages without being part of our subreddit without a karma threshold.
We didn’t even get a modmail
Is the 500k page size limit increased? It’s extremely inconvenient to me.
I think I may have one of the largest wiki’s here.
I just want to be able to edit my sub's wiki on mobile
I'm part of early access. I recently sent some more feedback for y'all.
Are more option being considered for who can edit wikis? Like user flair?
Will mods get to see who their top and successful contributors are?
On android you can see this with the top member chart thing.
Oh, right. But you have to enable that publicly, right?
We avoid public leaderboards, we don't want to encourage gamification. It's bad enough some users coveting our flairs sometimes. Those who want flair, probably aren't those that are expressing the qualities our flair represents.
I think so. You could turn it on temporarily.
True!
I don’t use android so I didn’t know this was a thing until a few days ago. Do you know how we can turn off that leaderboard that’s shown to android users?
It's on desktop too. Mod tools > achievements and you have a bunch of toggles
Looks like same place in app
Turn off leaderboard.
oh i didn’t know that was the same thing. thanks
So…other than seo I don’t see anything new about this. Will anything be better on mobile? Right now people can barely find the wiki on mobile.
Will any of this work on the app?
I'm so sick of using desktop mode in a mobile browser to edit our wiki.
What about highlighting changes in wiki revisions?
Old reddit has that. The now removed "new reddit" had that too. The current interface (shreddit) brings up two copies for comparison but does not highlight additions/removals - it only adds a sign on a line that's changed, which is far from enough to be actually helpful.
Can we please get the change highlights back?
Is the mod council so spineless they didn't tell you to respect mods pre-existing settings?
There are some wiki pages on my sub that are mod only view, and some that are publicly viewable and editable by approved contributors. Can you describe what will happen to the individual mod only view pages in this conversion? Some pages may have user info that appropriate to share with the mod team but not for a general audience to protect user privacy.
Are you saying we will get a modmail if we are in the excluded group? Or that if we don’t get a modmail then we can’t opt out?
Surely the idea of having a wiki for a subreddit is relatively niche but subreddit mods using the wiki for mod things is incredibly common. Therefore there is no way this should be opt in. Especially given the fact that when you tried it in the beta on one of my subs you exposed all the “mod only” info as you took that to mean mods could only edit it whereas we all understood it to mean only mods could view it.
I mod two very large subs (both partner communities) which has this issue. This has to be opt in. Not opt out.
All three of my subs are being "opted-in". None of them use the wiki and never will, and all three have our own critera for recognizing quality contributions that is entirely separate from your completely broken "top contributor" model.
Ya'll have done a lot of stupid things in the last year or two, but this is the stupidest thing you've done by leaps and bounds. If you combined the stupidity of all the rest stupid stuff you've done over the last two years, it would still pale in comparison to this absolutely boneheaded move.
It sounds interesting, thanks.
Most redditors don't see/read the wiki, so I hope that the spoken of visibility actually works.
I also wonder how any eligible members would be notified/made aware that they can access the wikis for edits?
For now I've opted out of member contributors, as the basis for who gets to edit doesn't seem thought through when it comes to who generally creates quality content - those that are prolific posters and get upvotes are usually not the most reasonable people. I've spent effort on the wiki, and don't intend to get this ruined.
As a request for any possible additions to this feature, it would be nice though if this basis for who can edit could be fine tuned by subreddit moderators. For instance by suggesting members, which then can be given the access manually (instead of as up till now, have to memorize and write in a member name). I have no real and detailed suggestions for how yet, just that it would be nice with more control, while still letting the wikis loose. :)
Notice how they still aren't making the wiki visible on the main mobile view? Literally the easiest change with the highest potential for impact.
I like your user name.
Oh, and yeah, I see it, that is, I don't really see the wiki :P
Thanks!
They made an update: https://www.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/1m8cbpd/update_on_new_wiki_migration_the_choice_is_yours/
Once the wiki is migrated, the wikis should be more visible.
Edit: fixed the link.
I read that but I do not see any mention of the wiki being more visible on mobile
Under "Enabling the new wiki experience:"
it says: "Enabling the new wiki experience will also enable wiki page discovery units that will show up in your subreddit’s feed"
That's based on their algorithms. I'm talking about something more more useful, easier to implement, and more obvious: having the wiki link show up on the default mobile view, rather than requiring people to click "about"
I see it underneath my subs' name though.
you see what?
The wiki is linked underneath the subreddit name, in mobile app default view of the sub feed.
can you share a screenshot? because i am not seeing a wiki under the subreddit name for any sub
My question is WHY is it so confusing?
If you change a permission of a wiki page where it literally says "Who can edit" to mods only, the page becomes COMPLETELY inaccessible to all the other users.
If that setting also affects the viewing of that wiki page, shouldn't that... you know BE MENTIONED there?
On old reddit at least you can see the option "only mods may edit and view" but on sh reddit this is completely missing
Is there an opt-in somewhere? I understand mods of subreddits with extensive wikis might want to hold off until all the changes are understood, but the wikis in my subreddits are practically empty (maybe 1 to 3 articles per subreddit), so starting over would be fine for me.
Happy days are here again!!! Very glad to see this at last. I prefer this style of editing to markdown editing 100%.
This will definitely help. I'm gonna use this to provide context to certain explanations, or make an image guide to help users understand some features on the sub.
That's gonna be handy.
This sounds neat. For example, one sub I manage is for a video game, and being able to construct a game guide within the subreddit Wiki and then have it appear in Google search results sounds neat. Of course YouTube and Steam guides show up, but it'll be better to move those eyeballs and clicks onto our sub (and reddit too, lol).
Okay guys, this is a great sounding update. Hopefully everything launches next week BUG-FREE!!!
You've always been able to add images into the wiki tho
On the other hand, please please please do not take markdown away.
They've managed it with selfposts & comments to be able to add GIFs and images to have the WYSIWYG editor on desktop, I hope they continue to do this going forward.
Oh, Madokami almighty. Yes. Yes. YES. I find it ridiculous, but I'm legit almost tearing up at this news.
The fact we're going to have embedded images is amazing! Our team over at r/ACForAdults are currently undergoing the massive, massive process of making an in depth wiki & this is going to be absolutely invaluable for us.
So, can you put the new Wiki for your sub up there with the Community Highlights?
How will the wiki editor look on the mobile site?
Thanks for the notice! I've requested to disable community access because the last thing I want is folks editing New Reddit's wiki when that's not something us mods will ever bother looking at. Who knows what shenanigans users could get up to? It'd be terrible for other users to accidentally view it and assume that represented something official!
Just another example of splitting the site by gradually forcing mods to interact with New Reddit instead of understanding why they want to keep using Old Reddit.
I’m all for this. Is it not happening now?
Any updates?
I'm surprised you guys used r/Tokyo as example in your announcement, even though we haven't really maintained our wiki in years.
Is this a hint that we should start maintaining it again?
I didn't opt in for 2/3 of the communities I moderate and when you click "Mods only" instead of use "Use wiki permissions", it disables the wiki pages that are set to public viewing on the old Wiki. There should be a "Mods only" option in the general Wiki settings, not just "Mods and approved contributors." Please fix that.
any updates?
Anywhere we can go if this wiki rollout broke our permissions and our wiki index page? Currently broken over at Datahoarder and mods can't edit anything. Just a blank page.
Very excited! Saw this during the Modditt event and was blown away by the improvements. Will definitely bring a lot of value to us over at r/PowerBI and r/MicrosoftFabric as we continue to grow!
How can subreddits join the early access program?
Edit: Why the downvotes? This was a serious question as I had no idea of how that worked.
The early access program is part of our Partner Communities program, which you can read more about here.
I've applied months ago multiple times and I wasn't notified about anything
This is exciting! I've been thinking about doing a wiki overhaul in the next few months.
Cant wait to have it in r/RealSociedadFC
Working like a charm in my other two subs r/KirtVerse and r/TheCryptoApp
Thanks a lot for enabling it!